You are wise in viewing the cats as a serious predator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDY2OAjZgio
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You are wise in viewing the cats as a serious predator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDY2OAjZgio
And do so incorrectly. The data I posted did include daily temperature maximums and time. UV charts are meaningless, since UV has nothing to do with it. Solar radiation would have some meaning, so perhaps you meant that UV was a stand-in for solar radiation, but as your site mentioned, that's not particularly relevant as a surrogate for heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Probably.Quote:
If there is an issue regarding fish dying because the water is getting too warm then you can be sure that you are referring to a hot desert. Is the desert marked on the map I posted?
I thought we had long since covered the fact that we are talking about trout and salmon, and that they are not considered true desert fish. They are true residents of the desert, and they are impacted by grazing. You can find that for yourself, if you so chose, by searching in grazing impacts on riparian areas, which will result in LOTS of hits.Quote:
I will continue to dispute your stated belief that fencing off a few river banks covered with a bit of green vegetation substantially reduces the water temperature at all, and that true desert fish need shade to survive.
Of course you want that. Since it isn't even theoretically possible to do that, you have asked for just the right thing to maintain your beliefs. The desert area is too broad to show any extent while also showing enough detail to show vegetation along streams. A link to a stream could be dismissed as not being representative (as the rivers you posted pictures of are not, since large rivers are rare anywhere), while an expanse would be representative yet wouldn't show vegetation. Even if I took the time to show several links, they would be nothing but snapshots of a broader picture, and could be dismissed as such. That's why I suggested Google Earth, which is what I used for figuring out the bike route through the desert. You could also search on papers on the subject. You won't find any that say that cattle and sheep grazing doesn't cause any damage to riparian areas, and you would find papers describing greater impacts than what I mentioned, but it would all be there.Quote:
I am not convinced. If you want me to look at something please at least post a link with the map open to Idaho and set up the way you want it and a link confirming that green = tall trees not just grass or shrubs.
Other than that, do as you please. I have not believed that you could be convinced of anything ever since you decided that mako sharks were the dominant predator. It's an interesting argument, but it's not worth doing any more work for.
Went back to look at your desert map. The Inside Desert is part of what is listed as the Great Basin Desert, except that it really isn't part of it. The Great Basin is a region that doesn't drain to either the Atlantic or Pacific, whereas what streams do exist in the Inside Desert and the other Idaho deserts all drain into the Snake River, which flows to the Pacific, and therefore aren't included in the Great Basin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
The data you posted did not include a daily temperature chart, it only included the peak temp, so I was unable to determine the temp at noon. U.V. charts are not meaningless as the National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service points out they can be used to determine "when the earth-atmosphere system is irradiated" by the sun and are particularly useful to compare against the temperature charts over the same time frame. The water just like the atmosphere is heated by the sun and the U.V. chart from my source reveals that the sun is heating the atmosphere and the water the most at midday but there is a thermal delay from the time the atmosphere and water are irradiated to the time their temperatures reaches their peak. Thus for the trees to have any substantial effect on the water temperature they would have to shade the water in the middle of the day when the sun is directly overhead and that is an absurd proposition especially in a desert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Although you are concerned with the survival of non desert species in the desert like the redband I am not as that is not game that I can win as Dan Schill pointed out in the video I posted re the redband trout. The issue I focused on was that the majority of native desert fish are extinct or endangered and therefore endangered native species of desert fish should be reintroduced as a much more realistic and viable solution.Quote:
I thought we had long since covered the fact that we are talking about trout and salmon, and that they are not considered true desert fish. They are true residents of the desert, and they are impacted by grazing. You can find that for yourself, if you so chose, by searching in grazing impacts on riparian areas, which will result in LOTS of hits.
B.t.w Dan is right the redband does look like a species of rainbow trout.
Rainbow Trout:
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...nbow-trout.jpg
Redband Trout:
http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com...lius-river.jpg
Astonishingly I had to argue quite a lot to establish humans as the dominant animal on the planet. Mako sharks are still, in my view, the topmost pelagic predator, and from memory you agreed at the time. They also happen to be evil hence I included a picture of a fishing vessel catching them for food at the end of that thread. Delectable!Quote:
Other than that, do as you please. I have not believed that you could be convinced of anything ever since you decided that mako sharks were the dominant predator. It's an interesting argument, but it's not worth doing any more work for.
I googled "The inside desert" and there were very few results: https://www.google.com.au/search?cli...rt%22&start=50Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
That's not even a roar! It's just speaking in its own language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
"Hey ladies I r here at the moment, come over and check me out later, meow."Quote:
Originally Posted by henrytrs35
Or "Damn, wonder where I can find a nice fat cow to kill, cause damn! I'm hungry!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Nah, the farms are usually fenced off to stop the cats from getting to the livestock. That's something you'd say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
Cup Cakes. Now they are evil.
Cup Cakes? Now we are back to moor mermaids!
You don't get mermaids on moors. It's too far from the sea.
Moor, moar, s'mores... desserts!
Now those are some tasty looking cup cakes
Hmmm, Katy Perry - her real name is Katheryn Elizabeth "Katy" Hudson - and she definitely reminds me of the House of Windsor and Catherine Elizabeth "Kate" Middleton in particular, and they are both sweeties.
It's only absurd because you went online, found a couple pictures of rivers found in deserts, and lacking any experience, extrapolated them to every other stream in every desert. I'm not sure which part of your statement was more wrong, but if you had any practical experience you'd know that the majority of the desert streams are shaded in part or in whole from high noon sun. You may also be aware that flowing systems can react in VERY peculiar ways such that your guess at how temperatures will respond is pretty nearly worthless. I camped by a streambed that became a flowing stream right around dusk, but was totally dry the rest of the day. When do you suppose the maximum temperature of that stream was? Broad generalizations are kind of hard to make, but you can pretty much say that water will be warmer later than noon. Flowing streams may reach a peak heat much later than the air...or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Reintroduced to what? They weren't there in the first place, so if you introduced them they wouldn't be native...by definition. The redbands ARE native.Quote:
Although you are concerned with the survival of non desert species in the desert like the redband I am not as that is not game that I can win as Dan Schill pointed out in the video I posted re the redband trout. The issue I focused on was that the majority of native desert fish are extinct or endangered and therefore endangered native species of desert fish should be reintroduced as a much more realistic and viable solution.
Oh good. Then all the genetic samples we've taken over the last few decades don't lie.Quote:
B.t.w Dan is right the redband does look like a species of rainbow trout.
Rainbow Trout:
I never agreed or even came close to agreeing. The evidence ALL pointed to the fact that you were wrong, and it does so even more today.Quote:
Astonishingly I had to argue quite a lot to establish humans as the dominant animal on the planet. Mako sharks are still, in my view, the topmost pelagic predator, and from memory you agreed at the time.
Google Idaho Inside Desert. I came up with several links. This one was right, and I didn't look at any of the others:Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
http://mapcarta.com/23539138
I had a good chuckle after reading that Sharky, surely you weren't being serious. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I assumed that water will react exactly like the atmosphere and that its temperature will rise when it is irradiated by the sun, and my theory is evidenced every time I boil water so I definitely wouldn't call it worthless.Quote:
You may also be aware that flowing systems can react in VERY peculiar ways such that your guess at how temperatures will respond is pretty nearly worthless.
Heh, probably not too many fish in that stream eh Sharky?Quote:
I camped by a streambed that became a flowing stream right around dusk, but was totally dry the rest of the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
The problem, as Dan Schill explained, is that the redbands are not a desert fish and as a result they only have a chance of making it by living in or near cool springs which are quite rare in the desert. Thus a better strategy is to reintroduce endangered native desert species that are good eating.Quote:
Reintroduced to what? They weren't there in the first place, so if you introduced them they wouldn't be native...by definition. The redbands ARE native.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
They are both trout, they are both native to north America, they both look the same, so exactly how much genetic difference is there Sharky?Quote:
Oh good. Then all the genetic samples we've taken over the last few decades don't lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Oh really you've changed you mind? Ok tell me Sharky: what, in your opinion, is the topmost pelagic predator besides Man?Quote:
I never agreed or even came close to agreeing. The evidence ALL pointed to the fact that you were wrong, and it does so even more today.
Ok when I scrolled up I eventually found the snake river that you were talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
J'ai passé devaunt la porte.
True, I should have stated that that is true for deserts with which I am familiar, which means those in this area. It's true for most of the deserts in the US, but I think there are a few streams for which it is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Right. Liquids and gasses act the same. Streams are excellent models for the atmosphere, and your stove is an excellent stand-in for a flowing stream.Quote:
I assumed that water will react exactly like the atmosphere and that its temperature will rise when it is irradiated by the sun, and my theory is evidenced every time I boil water so I definitely wouldn't call it worthless.
Water is quite rare in the desert, so you are technically right that cool springs are rare in the desert. What water does flow is often cool springs. The redbands are native species in the streams they are found in. There aren't "native" species to reintroduce.Quote:
The problem, as Dan Schill explained, is that the redbands are not a desert fish and as a result they only have a chance of making it by living in or near cool springs which are quite rare in the desert. Thus a better strategy is to reintroduce endangered native desert species that are good eating.
None, Bambi. Redbands and rainbows are the same species.Quote:
They are both trout, they are both native to north America, they both look the same, so exactly how much genetic difference is there Sharky?
I'm not going to start that up again, not even for the post race. People reveal little bits about themselves through their posts. Since you've said nothing about who you are, I built up a model of who I thought you were based on what you posted: That particular thread led me to believe that you grew up in a city and haven't traveled much in your life. I figured that you were an American teenager, but have changed my mind a little bit on both points. Niya appears to believe that you're a total fraud and doesn't believe anything you say, but I don't agree on that point. I think you DO believe everything you say, but I'm thinking you probably aren't American, and are either younger than 30 (probably younger than 25) or over 60. If you are the latter, then you'd have to have spent your life in some narrow profession, possibly a branch of mechanical engineering (that field has made some impressive mistakes when it comes to the real world). Whatever it is, you have an impressive ability to take a very small amount of information from the world, build theories of how the world works (which are largely Disney-fascist by the definition you provided), then zealously guard them against any actual data.Quote:
Oh really you've changed you mind? Ok tell me Sharky: what, in your opinion, is the topmost pelagic predator besides Man?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
http://rofl.name/_src/rofl.gifQuote:
True, I should have stated that that is true for deserts with which I am familiar, which means those in this area. It's true for most of the deserts in the US, but I think there are a few streams for which it is not true.
Quote:
You may also be aware that flowing systems can react in VERY peculiar ways such that your guess at how temperatures will respond is pretty nearly worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
And that happened just when I thought I would never see Sharky agree with me about anything. =)Quote:
Right. Liquids and gasses act the same. Streams are excellent models for the atmosphere, and your stove is an excellent stand-in for a flowing stream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
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Reintroduced to what? They weren't there in the first place, so if you introduced them they wouldn't be native...by definition. The redbands ARE native.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Heh, no, Dan indicated that the problem is that the redband trout can only survive right next to the cool spring in the desert i.e. they are not adapted for the desert unlike some of the other endangered species of native desert fish.Quote:
Water is quite rare in the desert, so you are technically right that cool springs are rare in the desert. What water does flow is often cool springs. The redbands are native species in the streams they are found in. There aren't "native" species to reintroduce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
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Oh good. Then all the genetic samples we've taken over the last few decades don't lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Agreeing with me twice in one post that has to be a minor miracle. =DQuote:
None, Bambi. Redbands and rainbows are the same species.
But Niya would say anything so that isn't much of a point.Quote:
People reveal little bits about themselves through their posts. Since you've said nothing about who you are, I built up a model of who I thought you were based on what you posted: That particular thread led me to believe 4that you grew up in a city and haven't traveled much in your life. I figured that you were an American teenager, but have changed my mind a little bit on both points. Niya appears to believe that you're a total fraud and doesn't believe anything you say, but I don't agree on that point.
I am happy that you were impressed, although I have to reiterate that I am obviously not a fascist.Quote:
I think you DO believe everything you say, but I'm thinking you probably aren't American, and are either younger than 30 (probably younger than 25) or over 60. If you are the latter, then you'd have to have spent your life in some narrow profession, possibly a branch of mechanical engineering (that field has made some impressive mistakes when it comes to the real world). Whatever it is, you have an impressive ability to take a very small amount of information from the world, build theories of how the world works (which are largely Disney-fascist by the definition you provided), then zealously guard them against any actual data.
Awww, please. I've brought popcorn.Quote:
I'm not going to start that up again, not even for the post race
I really don't think he's agreeing with you.Quote:
And that happened just when I thought I would never see Sharky agree with me about anything
Nah, I double checked, he definitely agreed with me, twice in one post! =)Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
Ok, so you don't understand sarcasm, either.
At this point, I have concluded that you are either a fraud (as Niya believes), or 'not all there' in some way. I've had enough of it, though. So, unless Bambi wants to talk about who they are, I will henceforth simply ignore everything he/she says.
Personally, I catch some post but for the most part it goes in one eye and out the other.Quote:
So, unless Bambi wants to talk about who they are, I will henceforth simply ignore everything he/she says.
I was thinking it could be a "rogue" member - some kind of alias. But I cannot see a pattern with these posts that would allow me to connect it to someone already on the forum.
Lots and lots of time and googling for links - more words then I would ever consider writing in a post!
Had an interesting meal with an evocative (and rather gross) name: Pakistani old clothes.
It was basically a beef roast slow cooked in a variety of spices for nine hours, then served over rice. Everyone felt that the recipe could have been better, but we didn't all agree on how. My sister felt it was bitter, which wasn't my view on it. My view was a bit hard to put into words, so I didn't, at the time. It was roughly that the flavor didn't last. Within seconds of taking a bite, I could barely remember what it had tasted like. Some of the spice tastes lingered, but most of the flavor just ended abruptly. It was pretty odd, so I wasn't sure what to add that would make it last.
That's good in most cases for a chef, so long as the meal isn't to filling. It causes a bit of a curiosity that gets a customer back into the door to try and determine what it was that they tasted.Quote:
Some of the spice tastes lingered, but most of the flavor just ended abruptly. It was pretty odd, so I wasn't sure what to add that would make it last.
I turned onto I-90 from I-5 a few days back. The sign said that Issaquah and Spokane were in that direction. Why choose those two? I can understand the first one, but the sign should also have included Boston. After all, it's the start of I-90, why not post the other end? Spokane is kind of a random choice, since it's "a city a ways along the highway", so Boston would be a more entertaining choice.
Oh, I could identify much of what I tasted at the time, it just didn't linger, which made it less satisfying. It was like I was saying after each bite: I ate some beef...or did I...I can't remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9
That's also the only reason I know to drink Moxie: There's nothing else in the world that tastes like it, so it is a very unique and curious experience, yet it's also so nasty that there's little reason to repeat it. Bottled, liquid, dust, in soda form: What an interesting idea. I've recently found it in a local store, and am tempted to buy a bottle, just because it is such an odd taste. I just can't justify buying 12 oz, though. If they would sell 2 oz bottles, I'd get one, just for the memory.
I aint never heard of Moxie before.
I'm not surprised. The first time I heard of it was from an old guy I worked for. He was pretty cool, and had a functioning water mill with a wooden overhot wheel powering some saws, and a iron, horizontal, turbine powering some other machinery. One day he told me that he was really excited because some company had brought back Moxie, a soda that he loved as a youth. He was 70-80 at the time, so his youth had been a few years back. Naturally, when he offered me a glass, I accepted. Fortunately, it was a very small glass, as I could barely get through it politely.
Since that time, I have seen Moxie sold only in very few places. For a time, you could find it in the northeast, but now you have to go to a store that sells unusual or craft sodas. Basically, if you can find Rat Bastard Root Beer (funny name, good taste...let's see if the filter allows that word), then look for Moxie with an orange label.
Wow, that word got through.
I'm surprised it did too.
I looked up Moxie and I visited the Wiki page.
It looks... like maybe something I'd pass on :P
Odd that Polar in Worchester still bottles it - and I've never seen it locally here (an hour or so away from Worchester). Seems they have lots of flavors - were they all tough to swallow?
Of course, it's liquid....oh wait, you said pass ON. Nevermind, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9
I thought there was only one. I've only seen one.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
I'm going to look at the Polar selection next time I'm at the store - local grocery and chain grocery stores sell Polar here. My wife needs a can of Polar Orange Dry (diet) every night on her nightstand. If I'm the one that suggests we don't need another case when we shop - and then we run out - I really hear about it!
If nightstand is of polar bare,
Then wrath of wife does SZ bear.
So daily polling polar bare,
Or like a polar bear you bear.
Sure, you have to add a not at the end:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoethxOp5Kg
Don't believe everything Niya writes. As far as me not being here all the time it is because I am working on a number of simultaneous projects so I am a very busy man at the moment.Quote:
At this point, I have concluded that you are either a fraud (as Niya believes), or 'not all there' in some way.
Good luck with that approach but I very much doubt that it will work. =)Quote:
I've had enough of it, though. So, unless Bambi wants to talk about who they are, I will henceforth simply ignore everything he/she says.
At least your eyeballs are getting a work out. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9
Great stuff - you missed your true calling!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Are you referring to me szlamany? I am the authentic and original Witis not anyone else and I am certainly not into any sort of intentional roguish behaviour - you must have me confused with somebody on the dark side. :LQuote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Yes I was - I've not seen much of you posting in other sections of the forum. You are rather verbose here - that's for sure...
What about artificial lab meat would you eat that instead of murdering the cows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWAxSvjL7qo
I couldn't think of a pun about polar bears, so I had to come up with a little rhyme.
Me neither.
If not nightly polarized
Peaceful slumber be vaporized
Like polar nodes opposed
polar bound I am disposed
My wife was impressed - up to now I was to only one writing her poems.
That is true at the moment I like the hit cat.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Presenting, the Queen of the Bears:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...I_2796645b.jpg
Good thing I didn't say anything naughty. Seems like there ought to be some punctuation in there to make it grammatical, but I think that would actually be wrong.