Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

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Originally Posted by sapator

Bye Bye Mrs vaxmerica pie.

120 people everyone vaccinate 100 got omicron.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/02/...hristmas-party
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rge-to-100-nrk

Now, for the smart people here, we all know that vaccines do not prevent infection at all. Right? Despite what idiocies some said in the past.
So it's not much of a news as much as our idiot government pretesting not to know that vaccination do not create an immunity wall. Now I'm kinda anxious to see what other idiotic excuse they will find so they can support the full vaccination plan they have. Fascists , idiots and dangerous.

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Those articles included the numbers 120 and 100 but apart from that you are completely misrepresenting the content!

The first article says

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Our working hypothesis is that at least half of the 120 participants were infected with the Omicron variant during the party,"

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so unless your maths is entirely different from mine half of 120 is not a hundred. Also it says

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"a high vaccination coverage"

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which is again completely different to 120 people being vaccinated.

The second article says

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"may rise to as many as 100"

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and also

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All the participants were recommended to test before attending and had a high vaccination coverage.

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which are different to your "interpretation" of the stories.

Also by

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Now, for the smart people here, we all know that vaccines do not prevent infection at all

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you are going against all the scientific and historical evidence of vaccines. Different vaccines may have different prevention rates and different strains may be more or less resistant to particular vaccines but that is not the same as not preventing any infection at all.

Come on.
That was just to call me off. The fact remains that vaccines, covid vaccines, as you played duhh over there, are not doing anything against infection.
I can cope with maybe and just maybe they have a small very small infection prevention, if that will shut you up :p (kidding).
In any case you should be glad as Omicron seems to be highly less lethal and highly more infectious than Delta so if that is the case that was the good endemic news.
Isn't that good? We can go on with our lives and fight for something else, like world climate or so.

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It's basically garbage data

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I wouldn't go that far. It's actually very useful data. It just should be qualified as unreliable and shouldn't be used in the way that Sappy did.

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Big Pharma controls the whole world and there is no COVID

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...and the omicron variant is a conspiracy by the Democrats so they can defraud the mid term elections. Yep, Fox have actually started implying that on their "news" shows. We need a facepalm smiley.

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Originally Posted by sapator

Come on.
That was just to call me off. The fact remains that vaccines, covid vaccines, as you played duhh over there, are not doing anything against infection.
I can cope with maybe and just maybe they have a small very small infection prevention, if that will shut you up :p (kidding).
In any case you should be glad as Omicron seems to be highly less lethal and highly more infectious than Delta so if that is the case that was the good endemic news.
Isn't that good? We can go on with our lives and fight for something else, like world climate or so.

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I think a better start then climate change is to ban all the people spreading misinformation from the internet. That would save a lot of lives and would be easier on our ears.

I agree. Let's start with the vaccine > natural immunity misinformation :D
Then give power to one company so it can decide who to ban or not. And then let's dance.

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Originally Posted by sapator

I agree. Let's start with the vaccine > natural immunity misinformation :D
Then give power to one company so it can decide who to ban or not. And then let's dance.

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Natural immunity? Do tell. Considering that vaccines do nothing more than an actual infection does, what kind of magical thinking are you coming up with? Are you suggesting that natural immunity is superior? If so, you probably need to come up with a reason, because it's right up there with voodoo otherwise.

I will have to direct you the some pages ago when this was started. Read mine and Olaf posts so I don't have to repeat myself.

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Originally Posted by sapator

I will have to direct you the some pages ago when this was started. Read mine and Olaf posts so I don't have to repeat myself.

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No way...you have been trolling this whole thread. I don't think even you believe what you are posting.

I kind of agree. You seem to just have opposition without taking the time to understand how vaccines, immune systems, and cell biology works. A vaccine is doing exactly what actual exposure is doing, minus the virus risk. You seem to want it to be voodoo, but it isn't.

I think sapator was using the term "infection" in this context in a (past)-sense like:
- "an un-vacced person got covid, and survived it"
- ...thereby achieving "natural immunity" (instead of the "induced one", vaccines ensure)

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

...vaccines do nothing more than an actual infection does...

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Right, exactly... vaccines do "nothing more" - but a little bit less than what an actual infection triggers in an un-vacced patient
(vaccines train the immune-system on a "narrower path", so to say).

The link he (and I) posted independently of each other, containted info - as scientists in Israel found out -
that gaining "natural immunity" comes at a higher risk for the one infected of course -
but also gave "higher rewards" in turn (in exchange for the "higher risk", if you want).

In all the tests they did on a quite large number of covid-patients,
natural immunity "held longer" - and was fighting "consecutive infections" on a "broader spectrum"
(showing good results also on strains which differed from the one which caused the original infection).

Olaf

You didn't have to tell them.
The whole "ooohh I don't know what you are talking about" game we played in hi school isn't touching me and for the record, since I do not believe Shaggy would go into such a childish play , I think his nephew go a hold if his account, so BOY, you better get of your Uncle's account or I WILL have to tell him!

Uncle Shaggy :p

The "Natural Immunity" solution is lunacy.

With over 5,000,000+ plus dead, millions and million hospitalized and millions with lingering side effects, lets just reject the vaccine and let nature take it's coarse. Just saying it sounds idiotic. lol

Omicron.
So I'm learning bass guitar. Since I'm playing electric guitar is very difficult to finger pick but luckily the groups I'm trying to play use a pick (except Maiden) but it's fun to play. I'm all Gibson when it comes to guitars but I bought a Fender Precision bass and it's sounds very good. Naturally it's passive as the sound must be more "natural" for me.

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Originally Posted by Schmidt

I think sapator was using the term "infection" in this context in a (past)-sense like:
- "an un-vacced person got covid, and survived it"
- ...thereby achieving "natural immunity" (instead of the "induced one", vaccines ensure)

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I realize that is what I assumed he was saying, rather than advocating some homeopathic type thing.

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Right, exactly... vaccines do "nothing more" - but a little bit less than what an actual infection triggers in an un-vacced patient
(vaccines train the immune-system on a "narrower path", so to say).

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That's what he seems to believe. I see no reason to believe that to be true. The mRNA vaccines train the immune system against the spike protein, which is the part that sticks out and can be bound to. I suppose it is theoretically possible that the natural response identifies sometimes the spike protein, other times the shell of the virus, but I've never seen any suggestion that that is the case. On the other hand, the non-mRNA vaccines tend to use killed/deactivated viruses, so they should be showing the system exactly the same as what the virus shows. Also, none of those non-mRNA vaccines have as good a response rate as the mRNA vaccines. If you are right that the immune system will target other things than the spike protein when shown the actual virus, the non-mRNA vaccine response suggests that the mRNA vaccines are likely better than an actual infection as far as training the immune system.

Having said that, let me also add that I don't see any reason to believe that the immune training against the actual virus is different.

You talk about natural immunity 'held longer'. However, the fighting consecutive infections is the reason generally held to be the source of the variants. Some people were infected by variant after variant, never quite able to clear any of them.

Still, if you could show that study, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Ahh, Shaggy is here.
Hey men, I don't know how to tell you but mayyybe some relative of yours is using your account?
Perhaps do a check...
Thanks.

Some initial observation about Omicron but it's too early.
https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...us-2021-12-03/
https://fortune.com/2021/12/06/omicr...experts-fauci/

I got my first ever vaccine today. I was advised to take the Pfizer vaccine because according to them the others are trash. I actually wanted to go for Johnson and Johnson because it's one shot but I got so much push back on this because apparently I'd get sick or something because according to their anecdotal evidence, which consist of one or two stories about a friend of a friend, this is what is sure to happen to me 100%.

Welcome to the vaxbie side! :D
I would personally have waited a week or two because if Omicron takes over and is as lethal as they say it is, you just wasted monkey fibers, but each to each own decisions.

To be honest, I don't care one way or another about being vaccinated and I didn't bother to devote much brain power to the decision. I just got sick of those close to me bugging me about it. Plus where I am, it's starting to become more common for certain activities to be gated behind vaccination cards. I don't want the hassle so just got it over and done with. I basically did it more for the card than the actual vaccine. I never really gave two shits about Covid to be honest. Been there, done that. I got it once, lasted 3 days and I was back to normal. No big deal to me.

Yeah most people I know do it for the "freedom".
Personally I can't do it (but I wouldn't have done it anyhow) but I respect everyone that would put it to the test and hope for the best for him/her but again, if Ο (and that is a Greek omicron in case you did not see the difference) proves to be what seems to be, they should start bugging us with something else like world climate vaccines or something.

Downing Street staff joked about party amid lockdown restrictions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b9mJCW5Bik

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Downing Street staff joked about party amid lockdown restrictions

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Yeah, we're pretty disgusted at that over here. There has been one high level resignation as a result but I think most of us would like to see criminal charges brought.

quite interesting reads:

https://www.gpmb.org/annual-reports/...-world-at-risk

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...-public-health

and put the two together (and look at the dates)

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Downing Street staff joked about party amid lockdown restrictions

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Yeah, we're pretty disgusted at that over here.

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FD your being typically understatedly British with that description. :)

People are outraged, appalled, fully disgusted

Teflon Boris the man to which nothing sticks, no lie damages, has finally lied often enough and about stuff the public cares about to cut through.

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Teflon Boris the man to which nothing sticks, no lie damages, has finally lied often enough and about stuff the public cares about to cut through.

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I wouldn't count on it. I've got the Vine Show playing in my right ear as I type this and, while the majority of people phoning in are pretty appalled, there are still people phoning in to defend him. Teflon indeed.

He should resign but I'm not convinced he will and I'm not convinced he'll lose the next election off the back of this either.:down:

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

I wouldn't count on it. I've got the Vine Show playing in my right ear as I type this and, while the majority of people phoning in are pretty appalled, there are still people phoning in to defend him. Teflon indeed.

He should resign but I'm not convinced he will and I'm not convinced he'll lose the next election off the back of this either.:down:

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Not sure what we expected when we voted in a known liar, did we suddenly expect him to stop lying? Utterly baffles me how people are willing to let him get away with the blatant lies, not even well crafted or hard to disprove lies either.

Omicron is "a natural vaccine", that causes no harm and will immunize the whole world.
The end of the pandemic is near.

Or it might be Delta called Omicron to sell more vaccines. :bigyello:

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Originally Posted by sapator

Or it might be Delta called Omicron to sell more vaccines. :bigyello:

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Why would they want to? Have you seen the cost of the new COVID drugs? Vaccines are pennies. Those drugs will be large bills.

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Originally Posted by sapator

Or it might be Delta called Omicron to sell more vaccines. :bigyello:

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No. Big Pharma, OMS, Fauci and all these people (and all the press that they can buy, that is almost all) never stop telling lies and this time is not the exception, to make people fear and to push their agenda, and of course they are doing it this time also with Omicron.

Deltha is a dangerous variant, unlike Omicron.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Why would they want to? Have you seen the cost of the new COVID drugs? Vaccines are pennies. Those drugs will be large bills.

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You mean the cost of the drugs that do the same as Ivermectin does?
(Rhetoric question, I would not debate this kind of things, there is no point. It is only about being well informed. But of course, before investigating one needs to have interest -that no everybody has-).

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It is only about being well informed

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Then it's a shame you're not.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Then it's a shame you're not.

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LOL, that's funny! Who is telling that?

OK, after thinking a few minutes I realized why you said that: you think that being informed is to read NYT, BBC and CNN.
OK, I'm done, good luck!

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Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp

Not sure what we expected when we voted in a known liar, did we suddenly expect him to stop lying? Utterly baffles me how people are willing to let him get away with the blatant lies, not even well crafted or hard to disprove lies either.

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Well I sure understand, I've been completely baffled about peoples willingness to believe Trump cares about our country or our democracy.

PS: I'll suggest some Youtube channels, that even with the strong censure that is going on, they still remain and are not taking down because they show evidence:

Dr. John Campbell
Drbeen Medical Lectures
Russell Brand

OK, only if you can have critical thinking.
They are for making the investigation easier, but you can do your own investigation also.

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Originally Posted by Eduardo-

Omicron is "a natural vaccine", that causes no harm and will immunize the whole world.
The end of the pandemic is near.

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That's great news. How did you get your research results so quickly? Did you order them from Amazon?

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you think that being informed is to read NYT, BBC and CNN

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No. I think it's when you listen to, you know, actual epidemiologists.

Noooo don't go and leave me to the Sharks! :p

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Why would they want to? Have you seen the cost of the new COVID drugs? Vaccines are pennies. Those drugs will be large bills.

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Drugs are only needed to cure people to high stages of covid so, the weekly total now is 7000 so 1000 per day. Even the cost is super high cost 10.000$ * 1000 death rowers per day per year = 3.650.000.000
3bil650thou?
(I suck at math as you know so you can correct me).

Now the actual cost is $1,250 per infusion but I took the liberty to 10ble it so we can have a conversation. If you try to be a smarty and say more need them I will get it to the normal 1.000$ cost :p
(https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ody-treatment?)

Even with the higher cost of the vaccines by companies after round one, EU alone ordered 1bil doses (of 3 bil , I'm not clear on that cuz i don't give a frouken but let's go with 1 bil).
So it's an average of 20$ but I'll do a discount because I like you and we will say 15$.
So it's 1.000.000.000 * 20 per 3 doses per year as we have now = 45bil?

So only EU our weights all the world drugs and I think it was 3bil doses but, hey...

Of course math is not my element so unless I swift a zero here and there that is accurate.

Go Vaxbies down Drugbies!