Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

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Why does that show as a FunkyDexter quote???

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tsk, there you go, putting words in my mouth again :)

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

Third base!

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All good now?

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The problem is that there has been this ... I don't know what to call it... movement? ground swelling? not sure ... that started back in JAn/Feb

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I broadly agree but think this is slightly innacurate. That "anti science/anti expert" movement started way before Trump but I do think he's repeatedly played into it throughout his presidency (and preceding campaign). Playing into it in response to Covid particularly stands out because of the damage it's done.

No one says that anti-vaxxers refuse vaccination, they refuse those specific experimental vaccines, unless you are talking about hardcore - refuse all vaccines anti vaxxers, so probably 0,01 of the population per country.

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Originally Posted by sapator

No one says that anti-vaxxers refuse vaccination, they refuse those specific experimental vaccines, unless you are talking about hardcore - refuse all vaccines anti vaxxers, so probably 0,01 of the population per country.

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Except they also keep moving the goal posts...
"The vaccines aren't approved, they're ExPeRiMeNtAl!"
"Ok, the vaccines are now fully approved... even for kids as young as 12."
"But we don't know wHaT's In ThEm!"
"..."
"So we're just going to take this Ivermectin that we did rEsEaRcH on and down it with a shot of TuRpInTiNe, because, you know, that works."

At this point I'm happy for them to take their bleach, horse pills, and paint stripper (yeah, I've read news articles about that, if I can find it, I'll post it) and let Darwin sort things out. Meanwhile I have a kid I'm trying to get through school while battling a school and a school board with no backbone, who despite a recent survey that showed an overwhelming support for masks in schools... refuses to do so.

-tg

Only one vaccine is approved and only by FDA in USA and I'm not even sure it's approved for younger people.
Everything else are on stage 3 with conditional license.
I don't think bashing on people that don't want to do the vaccine will make a difference, also kid's have almost no mortality rates so you should be worried, unless a kid have some special issues. So of course I won't tell you how to treat your kid but I wouldn't be overparenting so much on the covid issue. 2 years we are going mad like chickens, we wouldn't want to be bringing that to our kids when there is no justification to do so. And of course according to researches shown on previous pages from official authorities, kid's are more likely to have issues with vaccination than covid.

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No one says that anti-vaxxers refuse vaccination, they refuse those specific experimental vaccines

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These vaccines aren't any more experimental than any other - they've been through exactly the same testing regime. The only thing where you could claim less rigour is simply that they haven't been used on the general public for as long - but no vaccine has ever been able to claim that on launch. They're all new when they launch.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

I saw a report yesterday that showed that the evangelical demographic had the highest unvaccinated rate.

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These Evangelicals truly do not truly know the book of the apocalypse.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

That may be the case over there, but I don't think it's the case in the US. The majority of our unvaccinated don't seem to believe in COVID, one way or another. Some believe it doesn't exist at all (it's a hoax), some believe it's just the flu (I'm fine with that view), and some believe that the vaccines CAUSE the disease (some evangelicals, apparently).

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My country had doctors who detected thrombosis as a side effect. And this class of vaccine has been banned in the USA, as far as I know.

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My country had doctors who detected thrombosis as a side effect

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There were a few - less than one in a million. And it was never conclusively proved that the vaccine was causative.

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Originally Posted by Episcopal

And this class of vaccine has been banned in the USA, as far as I know.

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What class of vaccines? I'm not aware of any that are straight up banned, though I think there are some stabilizers that were used in the 60s that have been banned. Not saying you're wrong, though, because anything that is banned gets a whole lot less press, I'm just not sure what you are referring to.

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Originally Posted by jpbro

About a month ago, it looked like my province was going to stall at around 70% fully vaccinated as rates suddenly plummeted. Rates picked up again, and we're now getting ~40k vaccinations per day here - many of those first doses. So there is some evidence that people can be convinced to get vaccinated. The uptick coincided with our provincial governements decision to require proof of full vaccination for indoor activities at certain locations (restaurants, gyms, movie theatres, etc..).

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The same thing happened in France. As soon as people were nudged, most people just got the jab. I expect that your reason is probably correct. Lots of people just couldn't be bothered as long as they didn't see a reason. It didn't take much of a reason to justify the jab, though, so even a loosely enforced proof requirement was enough.

Ok, so this article floated across my desk - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/01/ceos...s-back-in.html
It's about CEO's trying to get people back into the office... but that's not the reason I bring it up... this is:

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Merck and Ridgeback said Friday they plan to seek emergency authorization in the U.S. for their oral treatment for Covid after announcing “compelling results” in a late-stage clinical trial of unvaccinated participants. The drug, molnupiravir, reduced the risk of hospitalization or death by around 50% for patients with mild or moderate Covid cases. If cleared by regulators, molnupiravir could be the first oral antiviral treatment for Covid.

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While I'd rather have something that prevents me from getting sick in the first place, it's good to see there's something to handle the cases where someone does get sick anyways - for what ever reason. But now... I have to wonder, how many of the "can't gib me da jab" would willing take this... even though 1) it would only be under preliminary emergency approval, 2) they don't know what's in it, and 3) contains stronger 5G signals than the jab (it's easier to hide the little nano bots in a pill than in a shot).

-tg

It has one potentially serious side effect that I'm aware of: It might cause genetic mutations.

My understanding is that doesn't mean you'll grow a third eye, or something like that, it means you shouldn't have kids for some period of time after taking this. Either way, it's kind of a disturbing side effect.

It's not the same principle.
You take the drug for instant results not for precaution. If you are on the hospital with serious issues then you might decide to accept an experiment drug or your relatives approve if you are in a comma or something. That is completely different than the vaccine theory as you do that for not to get sick (allegedly). If we are talking about an experimental - vaccine like - drug with initial side effects already then you might be better of doing the vaxbie sting, at least you get in a pool of some known side effects rather that going in a blind new drug....
Also doing so means that I will have to categorize the subject A interaction with the experimental drug A..So...Hmm, initallyyyy.... Drugbie but we need to see the side effects, could be Durgpire, Drugzilla, Drugenstein...

My understanding is that the drug has been around for a while. I seem to remember hearing that it was yet another failed HIV treatment. So, while it is experimental for this use, it's not a new drug.

So let's do a comparison.

Greece deaths per year: 19 - 124.538 20 - 130.288 , weeks in 20 , 21 // 20 - 76.567, 21- 83.826 (note in 21 we started vaccinating)

UK deaths per year till end of September:
18 402.624, 19 - 390.954 , 20 - 444.169 , 21 - 415,777

US Deaths UN data,
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2021 8.977 1.090%
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%

Italy, that was hit so hard by covid:
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2021 10.749 0.850%
2020 10.658 0.870%
2019 10.566 0.880%

Here is your US pandemic rate, although I wouldn't trust even my spare change to them:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/m...-dashboard.htm


I'm struggling to see any real difference on the flows, they are following the yearly increase almost flawlessly.
Also note that as I've written before, there was a covid mania , at a point they where blaming every death in covid but even with that in mind, see the numbers.
Also take into account the lockdown and the poverty it brought and any other medical issues....Yeah, vaxbbbbzzzz also.


Sources:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...nglandandwales
https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...tes/death-rate
https://www.statistics.gr/documents/...f-77bc3babc3f2
https://www.statistics.gr/documents/...0-4a391b5c3038
https://www.statistics.gr/documents/...e-6ce351d3ad09

I can't understand what is going on in US.
Are you mandating the vaccine are you not? Only to army and public sector?
I saw a video of an officer quitting because of this so I can't be sure:
https://www.brighteon.com/9bf34cfd-7...9-f7d773a3cc26

In Greece our dictator said that it seems that we cannot impose the mandatory vaccination (we where struggling deary) so we will stop and we will only make unvax people pay for their rapid tests, while the vaxbies get free tests. Also there was an earthquake in Crete and they only allowed vaccinated in the reserves they have set for the people that lost their homes. After a huge reprove they decided to make an extra reserve around the corner for unvaxbies. Fkn dictator!

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Originally Posted by sapator

I can't understand what is going on in US.
Are you mandating the vaccine are you not? Only to army and public sector?
I saw a video of an officer quitting because of this so I can't be sure:
https://www.brighteon.com/9bf34cfd-7...9-f7d773a3cc26

In Greece our dictator said that it seems that we cannot impose the mandatory vaccination (we where struggling deary) so we will stop and we will only make unvax people pay for their rapid tests, while the vaxbies get free tests. Also there was an earthquake in Crete and they only allowed vaccinated in the reserves they have set for the people that lost their homes. After a huge reprove they decided to make an extra reserve around the corner for unvaxbies. Fkn dictator!

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Here is a general answer to that:

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden...760946a6fb89be

Ye I know about your local clown but I was asking for a more inside info than an article.
Do people go with that? Do they protest or strike?
For example in Greece they required the medicals to be vaccinated, then there was a protest and people started to show evidence about the vaccination issues so the Dictator tried to pass this in the army an teachers quickly before these info comes out in public media, we has totally pommeled and was in the verse of a wide country riot so he pulled back and now we will probably get a "good to have" kinda mandatoration.

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Originally Posted by sapator

Ye I know about your local clown but I was asking for a more inside info than an article.
Do people go with that? Do they protest or strike?
For example in Greece they required the medicals to be vaccinated, then there was a protest and people started to show evidence about the vaccination issues so the Dictator tried to pass this in the army an teachers quickly before these info comes out in public media, we has totally pommeled and was in the verse of a wide country riot so he pulled back and now we will probably get a "good to have" kinda mandatoration.

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I voted for what you call a "local clown"...If that is your perception of my judgement them you probably wouldn't be interested my answer.

Ah,
Ok I though you react as in Greece. Everyone bragging about voting someone till they get to the parliament do their stuff and then everyone calling them names.
So I guess it's different over there and for that I apologize. I certainly am interested in your opinion, haven't we have good "fights" over the last 2 years? I wouldn't have answered if I didn't care of people opinions here. I would just have xiomiaaoozed the thread.

P.S. My judgment came from your(plural) Trump posts over the years but anyhow...

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Originally Posted by sapator

xiomiaaoozed the thread.

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You know you spent too much time on VBForums when you immediately understand what this means :bigyello:

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Originally Posted by Niya

You know you spent too much time on VBForums when you immediately understand what this means :bigyello:

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Lol :D

...
I kinda fell bad for Tyson, hope i did not insult him...

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Originally Posted by sapator

I can't understand what is going on in US.
Are you mandating the vaccine are you not? Only to army and public sector?

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I'm not sure that I really know, frankly.

As far as I can tell, it's a patchwork, as you might expect. Each state, most cities, and most private companies, appear to be left to come up with whatever rule they want. There are several businesses that are mandating vaccines, some public sector jobs are getting vaccine mandates, and the rest are not. The courts have been upholding the mandates when challenged, so there's that, and there's talk about wider mandates, but the impact on the ground is pretty modest, in my view.

I'm not sure that the federal government COULD implement a general mandate. We don't have any mechanism for that to work, and probably couldn't put one together in any reasonable amount of time. After all, the US is a very large country, with a large population, and a population of lawyers that beggars the imagination.

So, if I'm not mistaken here.
Even if Biden said it is mandatory, it's, kiiinndaaa, maybe, will see?
In Greece if the prime says something it is the law to follow in most of the cases. Other than we will not follow it, it's the law. :rolleyes:

If Biden says it's mandatory, then it is...for those places where he can make such a mandate. He's the head of the executive branch, and like the CEO of a company, he can dictate what happens for divisions within the company. Therefore, he could make it mandatory for some government agencies and the military. For the rest of the country, he MIGHT be able to make it mandatory, but only after the lawyers get done fighting over it, and at that point, the final outcome isn't certain.

For it to truly be mandatory, then a law would have to be passed stating that. Since that isn't going to happen (we won't even do necessary things, like pay for things we bought), any such mandate is ultimately a matter of persuasion.

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Originally Posted by sapator

Lol :D

...
I kinda fell bad for Tyson, hope i did not insult him...

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Naw...I have thicker skin than that. It is so boring how you constantly slam your own government so when you started just blindly insulting other people's governments it just made me say something. It is absolutely true I was rabidly against Trump...but he was actually unfit to be president and anyone who voted for him a second time should have to reapply to vote, some kind of civics test should be required. Kind of like if you cannot name your state representative and senator and your state representatives in the federal government you should have to take a citizenship course. :D

Fair enough. I will stay out of US politics as I haven't really studied them.
But insulting our government is like a national sport here so, yeah it's boring but it is necessary for us. At least I try to give out some simile's on the birth of them lot to break the boredom from time to time :p

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Originally Posted by sapator

But insulting our government is like a national sport here so...

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Where I'm from it's practically how we breathe.

It's very common in the US, as well, but people tend not to mean it. People complain about the incumbents...and then reelect them over and over.

Yeh, what you said apply here also but people tend to mean it. So it's worse if you mean it and reelect them. I guess it's in our nature, we are, benevolent?Well-meaning? That was a huge mistake in the past, I hope covid did at least something good and woke us up. I'm very curious on the upcoming elections, are we waking up or getting what we deserve?

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

It's very common in the US, as well, but people tend not to mean it. People complain about the incumbents...and then reelect them over and over.

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It's the same here, most times. People just like having stuff to talk about. They don't really believe half the stuff they say, they just want you to believe that's what they believe. People are strange.

I guess it is like the weather...everyone complains about it but no one does anything about it!

Well, I'd guess it's something else, really.

Basically, I haven't been entirely thrilled with anybody I've voted for since my mother stopped running for office (she never lost, either, so I wasn't her only supporter). However, I tend to be strongly opposed to one candidate. That may be a common motivation.

When you look at Greece, you really have only two parties that are likely to have a shot at winning. If you don't like either candidate, then you have two choices: Don't vote, or vote for the one you dislike the least. That's the same in the US, and if you follow politics at all, you are very likely to have a preference as to who wins.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Well, I'd guess it's something else, really.

Basically, I haven't been entirely thrilled with anybody I've voted for since my mother stopped running for office (she never lost, either, so I wasn't her only supporter). However, I tend to be strongly opposed to one candidate. That may be a common motivation.

When you look at Greece, you really have only two parties that are likely to have a shot at winning. If you don't like either candidate, then you have two choices: Don't vote, or vote for the one you dislike the least. That's the same in the US, and if you follow politics at all, you are very likely to have a preference as to who wins.

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Nop nop nop, nop,nop.
The parties that have a shot at winning are two because people that vote for them are mostly those that have been assigned to public sector by them(politicians).People there (public sector) drink and eat and party and take looong leave of absence-es, so they will vote again in order to assign their children and family etc. However you can perfectly vote for another party. There as 6 parties in the parliament right now or you can vote for another out of the parliament party. As long as the party reaches 3% of the votes, it's in the parliament. Two 2 (actually 3) parties have scrwd people so much over the years that 55% do not vote at the elections. So the winning party got, if I recall, 35% . So that is 35% of the 45% that went to vote.
That is highly abnormal. Also to top that, the wining party gets a bonus of 50 party dog politicians (born out of a mistake of a blue duck eating too much weed and farting) on the 300 total of the parliament. So if they get 35% and get 108 politicians they get a 50 people bonus so they get to 158. They need to have 151 to rule, so with this little trick they passed on the constitution some years ago, they steal the government.
I hope I kinda explained it.
So our hope is that 55% to go and vote for something else than those 3 parties that are to rule because if they don't the most possible outcome on the next elections is them getting 20,15 and 5 percent and ruling all together in a coalition.

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Originally Posted by sapator

(born out of a mistake of a blue duck eating too much weed and farting)

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Don't strain yourself, there. That one's a bit of a reach. It barely rises to the level of an insult, which I assume it is meant to be. It's vivid, certainly, just more humorous than anything else.

Low voter turnout is a thing. It's not THAT low in presidential elections in the US, though we get to those low levels in local elections.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Don't strain yourself, there. That one's a bit of a reach. It barely rises to the level of an insult, which I assume it is meant to be. It's vivid, certainly, just more humorous than anything else.

Low voter turnout is a thing. It's not THAT low in presidential elections in the US, though we get to those low levels in local elections.

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Tell that to the duck that went blue trying. :lol:

I wasn't sure whether there is such a thing as a blue duck, or if you were talking about some other kind of duck that went blue...for any number of reasons. I don't know my birds all that well, and ducks come in so many colors.

You should stay away from using ducks in insults, though. Ducks are inherently funny animals, so you're more likely just to be amusing. I spent a morning banding ducks one time. It was a bit of work, but it was also absurdist theatre that was hard not to laugh at.

A birth of a traitor may also be humors.
I should imagine a duck struggling to to spew a politician out if it's bump and go blue to be funny.
But then again, who says that I have a good sense of humor. :p

https://youtu.be/D1qKWG_Xtb4

Go Dr.Fat!!
Give em hell!

I'm not quite sure how that would work in practice. I can see WHY it would work, but it seems like anything that prevents COVID in the first place would be something that you'd have to be taking daily for a long time, potentially for years. That sounds expensive.