Now there I'm with you 100%.Quote:
The language doesn't make the man, the man makes the language. It is far less about the tools than the workman.
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Now there I'm with you 100%.Quote:
The language doesn't make the man, the man makes the language. It is far less about the tools than the workman.
I had a similar experience on a project. in a prevois life they brought a bunch of us on board to build a new entrprise system that would replace some 20+ applications based on dos, access, excel, and who knows what, as well as replacing a number of home-grown stuff from each regional office.
Overall, it worked, however, it was based on a hugely flawed architecture that didn't scale well. some of us in the trenches saw it coming. but we were "too far down the road to try and change it now"... we rolled 3 offices and about 12 projects (it was a construction copany) before someone saw fit to pull the plug, and do usability/load testing. Needless to say it failed big time. Again, echoing dil's post, it wasn';t the tool, but the carpenter that was the problem. We all built qualiuty stuff on top of a really bad foundation and it caused it crumble in a spectacular way.
Ironically, at the time of this failure one of their newly aquired companies said "Hey, we can do this in SAP< we're SAP 'Masters' we'll set it all up." -- last i heard that failed just as well, it turned out they weren't the SAP Masters they thought they were.
Not sure what they are doing there now. nearly everyone i knew from there has moved on to newer and better things.
-tg
That is true, but here's my story.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
I had a guy who agreed to mow my lawn. He turned up. No mower. He used my mower. He needed gloves to pick up branches and leaves. I gave him some gloves. He needed bags to bag the leaves. I supplied them. Half way through - a 1/3 acre lot - he said he was tired and would finish later. He wanted the money for the job, then. I told him he'd get paid when he finished. I never saw him again.
So, yes, it's less about the tools than the workman, but if the workman shows a bad choice of tool, that is the workman.
Yea, there are guys that would use a hammer to turn a screw.
At some point, this may turn into 'What if there was a NEW VB.NET'.
We'd all refuse to use it and start petitions to get the old VB.Net brought back.
I'm curious - these questions go out to the "New VB6" proponents (or I guess anyone who wants to speak up).
1) What are the top 5 features or aspects of VB6 that are the most important to you - that you really require?
2) What are the top 5 most unwanted features of VB.Net that you never, ever want to see?
Stop trying to turn this into a Logical argument szlamany, otherwise whats the point of this thread :D!Quote:
I'm curious - these questions go out to the "New VB6" proponents (or I guess anyone who wants to speak up).
1) What are the top 5 features or aspects of VB6 that are the most important to you - that you really require?
2) What are the top 5 most unwanted features of VB.Net that you never, ever want to see?
Anyway we all know what the arguments are by now, the reasonable, the unreasonable and the downright crazy !!
But if you really really want a proper answer its because VB.Net is made of Jam and not marmalade!!
There are limits to what could be done without breaking a lot of things people expect from VB6 now.
Anything that requires a new runtime will become a disaster for many. People have come to rely on a stable VB6 runtime being preinstalled as part of Windows. That precludes any changes to the set of instrinsic controls, native I/O, and other built in classes and functions.
What could be done includes things like an updated IDE, a new C2.EXE aware of newer CPUs to generate more optimal code, more OCXs containing Unicode as well as ANSI controls, and new OCXs and DLLs that follow the shift from 1998 to now. In many cases all that is needed for the latter are some wrapper-OCXs or even just some typelibs for things already implemented in Windows... and then some more VB-friendly documentation. The main "shifts" I'm referring to include less need for ANSI support, more need for Unicode including UTF-8, prevalence of HTTP and web services, and things like that.
Most of that could be done piecemeal, i.e. they might leave the IDE alone except to add a few compiler options to be passed through to C2 - if even that. Or they might just ship a "libraries add-on pack" with those new OCXs, DLLs, and typelibs.
Any or all of that could be part of a new Service Pack.
More radical changes that actually resulted in a real VB7 (not VFred7) would mean the runtime deployment requirement returns. I don't really care for that unless it made things that I need possible, and most of what I want or need could be accomplished through that "service pack" approach I already described.
In a UAC/least-privilege world being able to package VB6 programs as "portable apps" using reg-free COM has been important. With a "new VB6" we would lose that because of the new runtime requirement... unless they found a way to make the runtime libraries portable as well.
Hmm...
I might have to take some of that back.
With a new IDE/compiler and C2.EXE pass 2 I suppose they could add to native I/O syntax and even add new Unicode pseudo-intrinsic controls by compiling them as calls into a statically-linked extender library. Then the existing Earth Standard VB6 runtime that is preinstalled in Windows could still be used.
This would bloat compiled programs, but how much depends on how many things they put into the extender library. I suppose that could be an optional DLL though instead.
Edit:
But that's still a minor update, not a "new VB6" at all. Call it "VB6.1" maybe?
From what I can see in this thread, VB.NET is, apparently, already on life support. Should we start the petition now?Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
You could say all of Windows is on life support, aside from the WinRT part Microsoft is focusing on.
If Windows 10 fails to see high rates of adoption I'm not sure what might be next. Maybe that would be enough pain to get them to drop WinRT and go back to a desktop focus and a normal version and service pack life cycle.
Regarding Windows 10 adoption.
I've been running the Windows 10 Evaluation for some time now.
I think in general it will be accepted for desktop as it looks and feels very much like Window 7.
Where they could go wrong is if they try to strong arm Microsoft products over the competition.
Essentially they want you to buy into the Microsoft cloud world.
All your content and apps (eMail, files, pictures, video, music, games, etc) will have direct control from the OS.
So far it looks like you will be able to use third party apps, but they will not be integrated with the OS.
Did they bring back Aero glass ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruff
Could you explain this in more detail ? If you're saying what I think you're saying, then that's a deal breaker for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruff
Ah. No Aero. (so far.)
What I meant for instance there is a search bar built into the taskbar at the bottom of the screen.
It is available all the time. It only searches with MS IE or the new reduced size MS Browser.
Cortana (MS speech recognition tool) also is built into the search bar.
I see no way to replace them with third party tools. Say Chrome and Chrome Speech Recognition.
Of course nothing is stopping you from launching Chrome and using speech recognition from within Chrome.
It is just not immediately available as Cortana.
Microsoft Skydrive. Now called OneDrive is just another Drive/folder in Windows Explorer making it that much easier to get to.
XBox
Exchange
Etc...
Are all offered the same way.
My gut feeling is that Microsoft can give Windows 10 away for free to Windows 7 and 8 users because they will make money back on all the services they will be charging you for.
You could say that but you'd obviously be wrong.Quote:
You could say all of Windows is on life support
PC Market Continues Decline Despite Growth in Mobile PC Segment
Ok, so "mobile PCs?"Quote:
"The first quarter results are not a sign doom for the U.S. market," Kitagawa said in a news release. "The biggest reason for the decline of PC shipments in the U.S. was attributed to the desktop market, which experienced a double-digit decline. This was primarily due to the end of the Windows XP replacement cycle. In contrast, mobile PC shipments in the U.S. continued to show year-over-year growth, and early results show this segment could have grown approximately 10 percent in the first quarter of 2015."
3 Reasons Chromebooks Are Shining in Education
I.e., not Windows laptops either. Windows is in a steep decline.Quote:
While some observers might refer to this changing of the guard as a "return of the laptop" or the "tailing off of the tablet," to those doing the buying, that’s not quite the case. Valerie Truesdale, chief of technology, personalization and engagement for North Carolina's Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools, said of the HP device in use at her district, "It's the size of a tablet; it's portable [like a laptop], but this Chromebook is another animal in between.”
How about a more open consideration of the state of Windows PC sales?
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-rea...ugh-computing/
It is a complicated situation - many different ways to serve the same need with users cherry picking where to get x or y from.
W/o reading it, I'd venture that "mobile PCs" referrs to things like the Surface Pro line... too big to be a tablet, too small to be a laptop... sort of the "tween" of computing platforms.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
It doesn't surprise me that traditional PC sales are slowing or even declining. people want their stuff on the go. Even in the business world, I'm seeing more and more people whipping out their iPad, or Surface, or what ever tablet at meetings. The only people I still see using a laptop or desktop are Techy types, or hard-core business users who are still running old (but tried and true) system that work on older systems.
-tg
Sure they do. And then they all go back to their desks and fire up a traditional desktop. Walk around any office and it looks just like it did 5 years ago. Windows is far from "on life support".Quote:
I'm seeing more and more people whipping out their iPad, or Surface, or what ever tablet at meetings
I work in public education, public municipal governments, labor unions - social worker organizations.
They are as fully invested in desktops as ever before. Most people have desktops and laptops. And the whole network is still inside - still windows - still tons of servers.
All these folks were mainframes and mini's prior to 1995 - some even lived through Y2K on those old boxes and migrated later.
Now people are getting tablets - and asking us programmers to give them some kind of access to their data. If the tablet is a full Surface Pro II or III they don't even ask.
I just got an email yesterday - one of my clients just got a bunch of LG Tablets from Verizon. My web app isn't designed for that size screen and they wanted to know what we could do about it.
Luckily I have an Android app that talks to my same IIS web methods as my web app and can offer them a solution. And I get paid for that solution.
That is what makes NO sense in this thread. None of my clients are saying "give us a VB6 app" - "where did that ADO go!".
actually, no they don't "go back to their desks and fire up a traditional desktop" ... their iPad/Tablet/Surface is their primary system. we may have docking stations, but that' it. We're largely moving away from desktops and moving more and more towards mobile. Even our developers, we all have laptops... none of us have a desktop of any kind - there are a few cases but those are for dedicated reasons - it allows us to travel more, take stuff with us to meetings and such. Support might have traditional desktops, but that has more to do with the need to run several systems, some in virtual environs, and that they don't travel very far from their cube in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
-tg
If you DOCK your MOBILE WORKSTATION LAPTOP - or even a SURFACE - to a desk of keyboards, monitors and mice you have a DESKTOP.
I've got no clients that have an IPAD or TABLET instead of a WINDOWS device. In addition to - sure!
@tg - I thought you were in the insurance/financial industry...
I have a Surface Pro 2 that I bring to client sites to demo as we go through development cycles. And I keep it at my desk to have Outlook open while I might be VPN'd into a client site with my desktop work station. I've been downloading MB's of SEC data lately. My workstation is jacked into all kinds of removable media for backup and archive and disaster recovery...
I could never accept just a laptop or surface as a primary dev machine. But that's just me - a programmer.
I know that programmers at MS are given the choice of a SURFACE PRO instead of a workstation - maybe they are forced to be pure SURFACE now.
Maybe we're splitting hairs, but to me a desktop isn't movable, while i could undock my laptop and head off to a meetin,g or DC, or San Diego, or Boston. But more and more of our execs use just a mobile device and not much else. A lot of sales use just their iPad. It helps that our software - well, at least the flagship system -0 has been moved to the web, so there is no longer aneed to drag about something with the app installed. just fire up a browser.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
No, i work on a CRM system desinged for no-profit organizations. se we deal a lot with personal info, my speciality is in customizing the gl system for the clients. So when you write that donation to some place, tehre's a very good chance it'll be processed by our system at some point, possibly even by code i'vewritten.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
laptops or something portable are really the only optionfor us. i have a docking station at home and one in the office, but everything is done on t he laptop. they buy beefy ones for us. it's largely due top the location diversity of a lot of us, the amount of travel, and that not all of us always make it to the office everyday. it also allows us to meet off-site if we need to quite easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
the only real downside is theat the laptops are not light, they're pretty heavy, especially whne jogging trhrogu h the airport trying to catch the co0nnecting flight.
-tg
Yep, that's my experience too.Quote:
I've got no clients that have an IPAD or TABLET instead of a WINDOWS device. In addition to - sure!
Yeah, but you were being more accurate than me:rolleyes:. For the purposes of clarity, when I said a traditional desktop I really meant "a machine sat on a desktop, almost always with some flavour of windows on it" which would include laptops. Clumsy use of language by me but it was really meant to highlight that "Windows Desktop" isn't going anywhere and certainly isn't on life support.Quote:
Maybe we're splitting hairs
I consider "Surface Pro" and its ilk to be laptops. Certainly in terms that matter here, which is software platform targets.
What a developer uses or needs is almost irrelevant though, the question is where are the users going for platforms. And while some are further ahead while others lag, the current trend is to things like true tablets that do not run desktop Windows or ChromeBooks and ChromeBoxes.
Nobody has a crystal ball with a decent track record, but trends are ignored at your peril.
Hopes and dreams and personal predictions are an entirely different matter. For all any of us know the current trend could freeze or reverse at some point.
My guess is that a lot of people are trapped in more stodgy organizations so today looks a lot like 2005 to them. Give it a few years though and when the trend catches up you could find yourself left behind standing hat in hand outside the door.
There's always McDonald's I guess. ;)
Egad, the site is so slow and balky right now you could almost believe it's a .Net application. :p
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...13/118/314.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
I would certainly agree with that. I've often seen people approach the debate from the "this tech is great to develop in so that's where the industry will head". This seems like a crazy argument to me. It's the tail wagging the dog.Quote:
What a developer uses or needs is almost irrelevant though
And I'd agree with that too. And I'd argue that, at least in the office environment, that is still primarily a Windows Desktop. It's certainly supplemented by mobile devices but not replaced by it. That's the trend and it's already caught up - no need to wait.Quote:
the question is where are the users going for platforms
Every company is different in how much new technology they absorb. (And when they choose to do so.)
Our MRP/ERP system is about twenty years old and restricted to our LAN.
MRP/ERP systems have advanced a lot in that time.
Many can now be accessed through as browser from anywhere in the world.
Some are cloud based relieving you of maintenance issues.
Machine shops have a long tradition of using thirty year old equipment as new machining tools are prohibitively expensive.
This drives what hardware and software they purchase and maintain.
I agree with FD. It is not all black and white. Not everyone is ready to chuck their Windows based tools.
I agree with FD
How interesting - we have turned a thread about saving a 15 year old legacy platform into a talk on emerging tech.
Seems the VB6 hanger-on's could really care less about this conversation!
We are speaking to ourselves and pretty much saying the same thing.
Nothing is keeping up with this trend - I can't click on post on this forums page on my phone (Galaxy S5) or on my Surface Pro 2 - without enlarging the page!!
It is relevant in a roundabout way: the loss of the desktop is God saying 'VB6 is dead, I'm taking away every thing that it will run on; can you hear me now?!'
;)
Seriously, though, we are at an emergent point where tablets can potentially replace desktops. Laptops do so, and have done for a few years. But when we talk of 'tablet', 'laptop', 'desktop' we are now talking about specific tasks, and not the device itself. There are tasks that are suited to sitting at a desk, with a proper keyboard, appropriate monitor and mouse or other input device. Whether the physical computing power is in the form of a phone, tablet, laptop or tower desktop doesn't matter for the task at hand.
Edit: conversely, though, people do want physical separation: no-one will buy a juicer/coffeemaker/toaster. Yes, you want all three, but sometimes not at the same time. The labor saving of having it all-in-one isn't actually a huge saver.
I've used my laptop, tablet, phone and PC simultaneously. It would be a minor convenience to have the tasks rolled into one device, but usually, they are all used separately and independently for different tasks.
Couldn't disagree more. Laptops are generally inferior to equivalent desktops except for portability.Quote:
Originally Posted by SJWhiteley
Cramped keyboards and cramped screens and touchpads are not pleasant to work with for extended periods of time.
If your a sales rep that hops on a web portal briefly. Tablets will work for you. If you have to do a lot of data entry then no.
Just my opinion.
Laptops are bad for development work as well.....unless it involves testing on the laptop itself.
The problem is that this is an old tech site. They refuse to support Tapatalk and other modern forum clients, instead relying on legacy web browsers exclusively.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
But hardly in the minority.Quote:
The problem is that this is an old tech site
Something that's struck me since buying a laptop with touchscreen: touch screen is crap for browsing the net. That came as a real surprise to me but I can't deny it. It's difficult to "click" on lists of links that make up a typical forum. It's generally difficult to navigate to numbered pages (e.g. the "12 of 12" links I can see as I type this). Lots of sites require you to "hover" over items which you can't do with a touchscreen. If posting anything it's all but impossible to select a bit of text to edit. And on and on and Ariston. The only solution: buy a mouse and use it like a desktop.
The desktop isn't going away any time soon for a very simple reason - it is ideally suited for a great many tasks. Tablets and so forth compromise usability for portability and that's a great thing when portability is what you're after (which it very often is) but when you sit down at a desk as the vast majority of us do in our working lives, regardless of the actual device you use to do the processing, you're probably going to fire up some desktop based operating system with a big screen keyboard and mouse. I don't see that changing any time soon.
And for office workers that "desktop" is more and more often running ChromeOS or Android. At least at places I go to.
For developers, graphic artists, etc. that won't be true. But even there I see a lot more Macs... and even more Linux than I used to.
http://igg.me/at/FYfWIs-RsZY/x/9882893
it's live all donations will be refunded if we do not reach our goal.
Since I'm not one to click on random links perhaps you can sum up what it's about?
-tg
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a...e-and-compilerQuote:
Originally Posted by techgnome
"
Short Summary
vb6(visual Basic 6) was one of the most used and popular development environments ever created. It is estimated that there were over 6 million professional developers using this software. In 2002 Microsoft decided that vb6 in its current state need to be changed, they created vb.net with Major changes to code syntax. These changes made converting vb6 programs to vb.net almost impossible and the recommendation was to re-write your apps. Many of these applications run systems for companies and big and small. Converting these applications is a huge waste of money and resources. Fast forward to 2015, and still today vb6 apps are prevalent in many companies to run the core business. In June 2014 a petition with over 7400 votes, and again in 2015 with over 11,000 votes, on the Microsoft user voice site was denied by the same person who denied a petition in 2005 of over 15,000 programmers. Clearly the demand is there to bring back vb6. Many have tried to re-create this ide and compiler but all have failed. The reason is that they were not at least 99% compatible. The vb6 replacement MUST be at least 99% compatible with the original version to be a success. The starting point for the new version must be to bring it to exactly where vb6 is today, and then improve it in the future.
What We Need & What You Get
That is where this campaign comes into play. Our goal is to gather funds to re-create a vb6 IDE and Compiler. It will only succeed if at least 99% of the vb6 code is importable and a programmer can import his/her vb6 project and re-compile it in a few hours. That is the hard part. Although vb6 has been deemed the step child in programming language, its simplicity is achieved by many very complex workings under the hood. I believe there are three primary options to get this new vb6 ide/compiler done, but it takes money and time. There are many out there already attempting to complete this task, but they all do it in their spare time and therein lies the problem. If we could gather funds to make this their full time job this new vb6 will become a reality.
his project will require a HUGE number of people to commit a small amount of money.
What you Get:
1. You get a way to move your large project into the future with a new way compile your vb6 Project.
2. All sponsors will be mentioned in the about screen.
3. The project will, when completed, be publicly published to preserve it for the future. Public Open Source.
Once funds have been generated I see three options:
1. Pay Olaf creator of www.vbrichclient.com to complete his project of a full vb6 replacement ide and compiler, which would be cross platform and modern.
2. Hire a group of developers to write a binding for vb6 using Lazarus the open source delphi ide/compiler.
3. We come up with other options along the way like using the funds to bring VB6 to the open source community.
The Impact
If this project is successful it will save many small businesses that have and use a VB6 generated applications as a major part of their operations. These smaller businesses do not have the resources to re-write their applications from scratch.
Many of our options will make VB6 codebase cross platform thereby removing the limitation today that vb6 code only runs on PC.
Risks & Challenges
When I decided to start this campaign I feel that this is the last option for many who have large code bases in vb6. I urge large corporations that have vb6 code bases to contribute to this fund, this will save your company money if you do not have to re-write your currently working business applications. If we do not reach our goal all funds will be returned to it's original donors. If our goal is reached all who contributed will have a vote in which option to move foward on.
Other Ways You Can Help
If you cannot contribute to this campaign please go to Microsoft's user voice page and vote here, or send Microsoft correspondence.
http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579...
"
What the open sores world calls a "language binding" is really just an language-specific API wrapper. For example one could write a "VB6 binding" for AWS SimpleDB.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
I fail to see how that applies or how you can magically turn Lazurus into anything related to VB6. It is just an IDE front-ending the FreePascal compiler as far as I recall. You might as well target Eclipse as a front-end for a "new VB6 compiler" - just as many do for FreePascal in lieu of the awful Lazarus IDE.
:lol:....what a scam.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
Really? Because I can honestly say I do not know of a single office where these are prevalent over windows. I see Macs around in a few trendy marketing departments but, honestly, that's it.Quote:
And for office workers that "desktop" is more and more often running ChromeOS or Android. At least at places I go to
Good luck. Just make me one promise. If this fails to reach fruition (by which I mean both achieve it's financial target and result in a viable product that receives widespread acceptance) will you finally stop betting the farm on this idea and move on with the rest of us? I genuinely wish you well but I'm also utterly convinced that this is doomed to failure and I hate the idea that you are continuing to bet the continuation of your business and livelihood on it.Quote:
Short Summary
[QUOTE=FunkyDexter;4871885]Really? Because I can honestly say I do not know of a single office where these are prevalent over windows. I see Macs around in a few trendy marketing departments but, honestly, that's it.
Good luck. Just make me one promise. If this fails to reach fruition (by which I mean both achieve it's financial target and result in a viable product that receives widespread acceptance) will you finally stop betting the farm on this idea and move on with the rest of us? I genuinely wish you well but I'm also utterly convinced that this is doomed to failure and I hate the idea that you are continuing to bet the continuation of your business and livelihood on it.[/QUOTE
Thanks for your concern and kind words. I did feel I needed one last try before I give up. I realized this weekend why I have this fear of moving on to another ide... When I first started my vb6 project, now my lively hood, I would work 16 to 18 hours a day, because I had to learn programing and create a product. Spending so much time almost cost my marriage. I now have a child as well, and I would hate to spend so much time working on a re-write.
My approach now is to hire someone to write the new version little by little over time as we continue to create new versions using vb6 for now. We are about four months into the rewrite using Lazarus. Probably years more work, so even if I got half way done, if a vb6 alternative is available I would switch.
I really believe Olaf can create a new VB6( and just needs the time/money to do so), that is why I wanted to give it one more push before I give up.
You're seriously delusional if you think a single person can write something as complex as Visual Studio 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
If VB6 is perfect, why switch ?Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
Niya, you seem real arrogant, I am glad you have life figured out.. one day it will catch up to you and you will realize you don't know everything... or maybe one day I will become enlightened as you are... who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
I am not switching from vb6, it is merely insurance if vb6 stops working to keep my company going. I really do believe there will be a solution to keep vb6 code running as long as I am alive.
Niya, I am sure that when we wanted to send someone to the moon, with the technology of present in the 50-60's the same would have been said, that it is impossible.
I don't believe in impossible, I believe anything is possible, and with enough support and Money Olaf would hire people to help.
Well you could rephrase the issue another way, but it will still get trolled here:
"I'm worried about/no longer satisfied with/want something newer than VB6. But I looked at Visual Fred and ran away as fast as I could. What are some alternatives?"
It is far better to ask such a question almost anywhere else. This site was long ago co-opted by .Net fanatics and has lost its way. It's like having your home invaded and taken over by bathless Katrina refugees who never leave and keep on multiplying instead of returning to Loosiana. This despite the constant flow of FEMA checks Microsoft keeps on handing them.
Really ?Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
But I do know everything......Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
You better hope that never happens. Ignorance is bliss.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
MS itself promised to support VB6 apps till something like 2024. If by that time yall haven't modernized then you cannot blame anyone but yourselves. Start your Lazarus rewites already and stop with these troll threads. I'm sure you'd finish by 2024.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
In hindsight, these guys must be amazed at what they actually did with such primitive technology. I always say that when I look back at QuickBasic code. "Wow I can't believe I did that with QuickBasic".....Should we start a campaign to bring back QuickBasic ? Hmmm...might not be such a bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
Oh yes it is possible....he might finish it by 2024 by himself. Come to think of it, it would be just in time so maybe its a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
If you want a better idea, start something yourself and open source it. If there is as much interest in this as you would have us believe then you're going to get a tonne of contributors. But you're just trolling us, you don't want to admit it but the truth is you know that no one with the talent to make significant contributions to this would care since they are all working on projects that embrace the future like Mono or stuff for Android. You know these guys have no interest in resurrecting dead tech especially when its been replaced by something far superior. You know this which is why you never considered it despite this being by far the best way to make your dream a reality.
BTW...why didn't you support my "Do your part for QuickBasic" initiative axisdj ? Seems right up your ally. I still have QB code lying around that can't run without a proper DOS.
Know what...to hell with it. Lets bring back DOS. Windows uses too much memory. I need at least 2 GB of RAM just to run Windows 7. DOS could run on less than 1 MB!!! That means DOS is better. Are you with me axisdj ?
Know what....lets bring back punch cards. They can't get back sectors like modern hard-disks can so they must be better. Right ?
Know what....screw it. Lets not limit this to the computer world....lets bring back VCRs. You think we can get together some engineers to re-create the VCR technology ? VCRs were great, not like flimsy DVD technology we have today. You could really knock around a cassette tape and a VCR would still play it!!! A DVD gets a single scratch and it won't play. DVDs are a scam, and all Sony and the other DVD makers are only after our money. BRING BACK VCRs!!!!
Lets bring back black and white TVs. I'm sure they did something better than our modern colour TVs.
I just want to bring back Mendhak and NoteMe.:p
Just another reminder to keep things polite, guys. Nobody has stepped across the line yet but you can't help feeling it's headed in that direction.
I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree with Niya that this is a pipe dream. I really do not believe this is a one man job and if you think Olaf's going to be hiring other programmers then a budget of $150,000 is going to be woefully inadequate. He's also already demonstrated a complete lack of interest in undertaking such a project in the "VB Classic (a true VB7)" project. He overtook JR's project, made a lot of noise, announced that it wouldn't support porting from VB6 (your key criteria) and then produced... nothing, as far as I can see. I know you guys are looking for a life line but I fear Olaf is not it.Quote:
I really believe Olaf can create a new VB6( and just needs the time/money to do so), that is why I wanted to give it one more push before I give up.
Absolute nonsense, most of us here are just practical in that we promote technology that we like and/or that helps us pay our way and that's it.Code:This site was long ago co-opted by .Net fanatics and has lost its way.
The few that have a real reason not to move to .Net form VB6 i have some sympathy for but i do still feel like the others here that they are wasting there time, and instead of pining over the past they should be looking forward and choosing something else whatever else that is.
The only real fanatic i see here is you with your fanatical Anti Microsoft slant!
As with most laptops, plug in a monitor and keyboard and you have a desktop with equivalent power. For a good few years, laptops have the power to do everything (assuming no extra hardware required) a desktop can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruff
The point I was making is that Tablets don't currently have the power to do that.
Desktops these days for development, ignoring the basic $200 ones, have so much power that it almost doesn't matter what you get for development. Laptops, as long as you are mid range or above, you will have a decent development machine. Tablets, while the latest Surface might do the job - I don't know, have not been impressed with the trivially small contact I've had with them - the likelihood of picking up a tablet and having the ability to develop with it is non-existent, at the moment.
Personally, I use a Mac (laptop) for windows development. It's a couple of years old now, but runs extremely fast with several remote desktops and two dev virtual machines. Like I noted, I use a separate monitor and keyboard, and the Apple Mouse, while actually developing.
So, development isn't about the input devices, it's about the power and containment of 'stuff', as long as you can plug your favorite display, mouse and keyboard.
Since VB6 is and is still supported [in that programs still run], and VB6 was the 'perfect language', why is a replacement in development (sic)?
With all due respect SJ I submit it depends on what you are doing with a laptop. We do high end solid modeling. Every few years someone get a bug to buy a high end laptop of (According to the specs) equivalent power to our engineering desktops.
A costly high end vector graphics video card is ordered with the laptop. Faster hard drive, Gobs of memory, etc... They always pale in speed and graphics to our desktops when used for the same purpose.
If all you are talking about is running Office, VS or a browsing session then I agree it makes little difference for mid-range laptops.
Sorry if this is off topic FD. I try not to get sucked into VB6 vs VB.NET conversations.
Bowing out.
This wasn't meant to be a VB vs. VFred discussion. It's just that the "protected troll" class of user is immune to moderation and they turned it into one.
To be fair, that's all 90 % of business use involves. Yours is an exceptional case so for you a laptop probably wouldn't do the job. For most business users they probably wouldn't notice much difference once it was docked. Tablets don't really have the grunt even for light office work yet but eventually they will (and it's probably not far off). If Dilittante's predictions of the doom of windows come true, that'll be the tipping point.Quote:
If all you are talking about is running Office, VS or a browsing session then I agree it makes little difference for mid-range laptops
Personally I think he's wrong. I think you're likely to see Windows based "work" tablets and Android based "personal". Unlike Dil I don't see any evidence of businesses embracing Android as their OS of choice for desk based work. Given that MS currently have the only unified OS on the market and given that they've probably got a couple of iterations to hone and market it before the tipping point hits, my prediction would be that the push is actually likely to stronger in the other direction - at least on machines that businesses issue to their employees for desk based use.
But none of us know yet. It'll probably be something else again.
Hey, t'aint my thread, it's AxisDJ's and it's still within the realms of a decent technical discussion. I don't see anyone trying aggressively to derail it or force it off topic, it's just meandering in the way that such discussions do. If Axis has a problem with the way it's going he's more than welcome to pm the mods and we could close it but I don't get the impression he's particularly offended by the discussion as long as nobody's slinging mud at him. It still serves his purpose as a place for him to announce his plans and air his opinions on VB6. Which brings me to...Quote:
Sorry if this is off topic FD
Come on, Dil, that's disingenuous and you know it. Nobody is protected and, if anyone really does troll they'll be treated with an even hand no matter which side of the debate they're on. As long as people remain civil then throwing out alternatives and a modicum of meandering doesn't constitute trolling (if it did you'd be a confirmed bridge dweller by now:p) Where folks start coming across as aggressive we'll point that out and, if they continue, then we'll act. Thankfully, so far at least, I don't feel it's reached that point (though it has moved in that direction a couple of times)Quote:
It's just that the "protected troll" class of user is immune to moderation and they turned it into one.