Ok, name some things created by god.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
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Ok, name some things created by god.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
I think you're confusing belief with faith. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Don't confuse confusion.
:lol:LoL.Quote:
Originally Posted by EntityX
And I think you're just confused. Faith is belief. Neither is knowledge.
The reason I said "I believe there is no knowledge" is because all knowledge is based on perception. I perceive that the keyboard under my fingers is black and that the milk on my desk has gone off, but does this mean that those things are true? Others might perceive them in the same way but that does not mean that everyone will: someone with a taste for sour milk might perceive mine as merely well-curdled. I believe that the milk is rotten. They believe it is fine.
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Originally Posted by penagate
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Originally Posted by 5ms?
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Originally Posted by penagate
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Originally Posted by penagate
Faith:Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ms?
The word "faith" can refer to a religion itself or to religion in general.
Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
As with "trust", faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence.
belief:
conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some think, especially when based on examination of evidence.
knowledge:
the fact or condition of being aware of something
the range of one's information or understanding.
the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning.
EntityX, Don't confuse the confusedQuote:
Originally Posted by EntityX
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek2:
You perceive that there is a keyboard under Your fingers.Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
¿But You have no knowledge of the keyboard under Your fingers.?
Perhaps not the best arguments; it is a fact that the keyboard under your fingers reflects only in certain components of the electromagnetic spectrum. That you choose to denote the absorption profile of your keyboard as "black" is simply down to semantics. Can we prove that I see black in exactly the same way as you see black? No. But that does not mean that we cannot make an independent measurement on which we both agree a result.
Equally, I don't think that you will find argument from two people with functioning tastebuds that your milk has gone off. Whether you enjoy the taste is a somewhat different point. On this, however, the point is slightly different because not-very-well-aged milk could taste "on the turn" to one person and "completely fine" to mendhak. Nevertheless, a chemical analysis of the milk would reveal a set of results that both parties can agree to without the question of perception arising.
Ultimately, I guess I'm saying that it boils down to bucketing. That different people can discern finer levels of detail than others is beyond dispute, so that what you bucket as "black" others may bucket as "very dark blue" or "very dark green" etc. Nevertheless, given the numbers behind the perception, you will find that you can reach agreement with the next man.
Which leads us to the origins of the word "science"......
i am glad you fell into my trap on this one. According to the bible, not only did God create the animals and plants, he created man, therefore anything man creates is created by god. Additionally, the bible clearly states in genesis that god gave man dominion over the plants and animals to do with as he pleases. "don't eat the passion fruit, but it's ok to smoke the tobacco and kill yourself. I'll just create another guy"Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
God did not create the cigarette, humans made them out of the creations of God, same thing as He did not create Nuclear bombs, etc. And reading the Bible doesn't necessarily mean we understand it.
plus: Where did cain and abel's wives come from?
finally, hebrew language was full of symbology that simply doesn't translate into our language, period. Literal translations such as "10 horns" doesn't really give justice to the true meaning. The horn was the symbol of power and 10 was one of the two perfect numbers. The other being "7". In addition, the head was considered the seat of knowledge. Therefore, "seven heads and 10 horns" means all-powerful and all-knowing. n other words, the beast in revalation will have all knowledge and all power. Just simply reading revelation will not tell you this. Only works by scholars unlock these secrets.
Who really killed David? Two books in a row give different answers.
Is god still in the Ark? He's supposed to hang about above it as a haze, kind of like zordon did in the power rangers.
There is no knowledge. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
Sun,human,animals,etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ms?
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, "Proof: (1) : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact."Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, "Faith: (b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof."
I'm saying that nonreligious people need the certainty of proof, and they are unable to believe in God without it. You need such a strong collection of evidence as to prove with absolute certainty of the existence of God. A mathematical proof of the existence of God by the greatest logician of the 20th century (Kurt Godel) would not be enough evidence. Nor would a creation theory like the Big Bang. People are looking for absolute certainty.
But man is not capable of creation, we cannot make anything out of nothing, we can only mold/alter what God has already created.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
As well as God. Believing God created everything just by faith is BS. :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
I would say technically there is no such thing as nothing - there is always something.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
Why do Christians tell their kids Santa is real?
Won't realizing Santa isn't real increase the chance their kids will reject faith?
Seems self-defeating.
Hmmmnnn... A Filipino not believing in God? Its the first time to meet one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mar_zim
Not all who says they are Christian are true Christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx
Santa is real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,Quote:
Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx
As real as god!!!!!!!!!!!!
Forgive me to ask you this, do you keep replying in this thread because you have to say something?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ms?
5ms?: how old are you? How long have you been a follower of God.
I truly do not know if i should believe in God or not. I have prayed prayers asking God to show him self to me in any way. Nothing. I would have taken something falling to the ground, a breeze, something, i got nothing.
However i do think intelligent design is possible. THe big bang is hard for me to believe. something creating everything makes more sense then the big bang. Where did everything come from? There is no way it could just always have been there.
Don't give up on your prayers so easily. Here's a story about the kind of patience that is required to realize God. I've returned to it countless times and it has inspired me countless times. I think even if you're an atheist you can draw some inspiration from it in solving the problems we all have to face regardless of our personal convictions. It's from a book by Swami Vivekananda entitled Meditation and Its Methods.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PATIENCE
There was a great god-sage called Narada. Just as there are sages among mankind, great Yogis, so there are great Yogis among the gods. Narada was a good Yogi, and very great. He travelled everywhere. One day he was passing through a forest, and saw a man who had been meditating until the white ants had built a huge mound round his body -- so long had he been sitting in that position. He said to Narada, "Where are you going?" Narada replied, "I am going to heaven." "Then ask God when He will be merciful to me; when I shall attain freedom." Further on Narada saw another man. He was jumping about, singing, dancing, and said, "Oh, Narada, where are you going?" His voice and his gestures were wild. Narada said, "I am going to heaven." "Then, ask when I shall be free." Narada went on.
In the course of time he came again by the same road, and there was the man who had been meditating with the ant-hill round him. He said, "Oh, Narada, did you ask the Lord about me?" "Oh, yes." "What did He say?" "The Lord told me that you would attain freedom in four more births." Then the man began to weep and wail, and said, "I have meditated until an ant-hill has grown around me, and I have four more births yet!"
Narada went to the other man. "Did you ask my question?" "Oh, yes. Do you see this tamarind tree? I have to tell you that as many leaves as there are on that tree, so many times you shall be born, and then you shall attain freedom." The man began to dance for joy, and said, "I shall have freedom after such a short time!"
A voice came: "My child, you will have freedom this minute." That was the reward for his perseverance. He was ready to work through all those births, nothing discouraged him.
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Maybe the story won't mean much if you think that this life is all there is but to me it has value. Develop limitless perseverance, patience and determination.
You're forgiven,Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-uForgive me to ask you this, do you keep replying in this thread because you have to say something?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ms?
Please! (do not!) forgive me, for giving an answer, to your question QUOTE "Why are you not a believer of the existence of God" END QUOTE
To give an answer to questions on the Forums you must reply!
I may be wrong, I was wrong back in 19.........69, :eek: ;) :lol:
is there a way To give an answer to a question with out replying?
Or may be I'm just a self-righteously shrill proselytizing atheist. :eek:
Why Do you post to a thread with the Title: QUOTE "Why are you not a believer of the existence of God" END QUOTE
Honestly !
Honestly !
Honestly !
¿because you have to say something?
:ehh:
You never answered my question. How old are you and how long have you been a believer in Christ?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ms?
Well, you can't be accused of setting your expectations too high.:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
lost no, bored maybe ;o}...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Man, this thread has been exhumed so many times it doesn't even smell bad anymore. Now it's just that slightly awkward pile of bones in the corner with the soulful eye sockets.
I'm trying to answer your question with out posting to this thread,Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
Please be assured that I will answer you!
only catholics do. And in fact he WAS real, before he died hundereds of years ago. It was a rich man who used to go over rooftops and drop gold coins down chimneys. The literal translation of santa is saint. And we all know how much they love their saints. Mythology gave him presents and flying reindeer. You all know how the rumor mill works. In a thousand years he'll be a robot and killing people.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ms?
Thread is so old it's now preserved, and people have developed an acquired taste for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianMayrhofer
If you "develop an acquired taste" isn't that the same as simply "acquiring a taste"?
capsulecorpjx Shaggy is saying that your sentence has unnecessary coding.
I have to be careful. If I don't stop posting in this thread so much I'll take over the #2 spot for replies made for this thread that Lord Orwell is now in. I think that 5ms?'s position is very safe. Interesting to note that the two members that posted just before me are tied at the #5 spot on the list. I would think that Shaggy would be listed after capsulecorpjx but perhaps ties are just randomly positioned. I can see member seniority or post count don't decide position for ties because hardLee is a very new member and is listed before mendhak and they both have 4 replies in this thread.
you can have it. wait... oops.
It's actually alphabetical. There is a 1 at the beginning of my name, it is just silent.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx
all that's left now when it's gathered enough followers is for someone to break out kool-aid.
I do not belive in God, I belive in Darwin :)
But, I am a member of the church. I belive there was a person 2000 years ago called Jesus, who was the son of Mary (not a virgin:)).
I like to go to church once in a while, and I even occasionally find my self praying. It's nice have something to belive in, and it's up to ourselves, and not others, to decide what that is :)
If you look at post # 1 for this thread you'll see that it was July 29 of this year. So it's only 4 and 1/2 months old. That's not that old considering you have threads that are still being posted in on a regular basis that are years old. Post Race was started September 21, 2000. It's presently on the current page of threads for Chit Chat. Now that's old for a VBForums thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx
i said break out the koolaid, not powerade! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by _powerade_
and yeah, i always had a problem with him dreaming that mary was a virgin. she was probably whispering to him in his sleep "don't divorce her. she's a virgin"
Hi!
i just wanna say i believe in God, and im a programmer.
cheers!
God didn't save the Jewish people from the Holocaust or the Russian Christians from the Bolsheviks, he's not going to help you with finding your car keys, finding a job or even surviving cancer.
Only God knows why he didnt do those things (saving jewish people/russian christians). And those of the people who believe in God, well their reason is not that He'll help us find car keys, or save us from nazis.
And dont forget that a believer can be a bad man too, and an atheist/non-believer/buddhist/jewish/etc.. can be a good man too. The faith just helps you to get the right way in the life.
if everyone would follow the Bible's rules, mankind would be much better i think.
cheers! :)
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Originally Posted by trenmost
But you cherry pick what rules to follow. You ignore the rules about not eating shellfish or stoning people to death who committ adultery, etc ...
Bible is the word of God, if it's true, all parts of it should be true, God cannot be falliable.
Oh yeah, couldn't let this thread die.
Here it goes again!
You could even say its been resurrected !!Quote:
Oh yeah, couldn't let this thread die.
Like a zombie!
it's worse than the theaters! Nothing but movies about undead right now.
Debating the existence of God is really futile. First of all, what do we define as being a God. I'll bet a lot of us would disagree, since it's only whatever we want it to be. Even the concept of a god being able to do absolutely anything has it's contradictions. Commons sense is not as common as we all might think. It is a mixture of experiences, tradition, dogma, etc., etc. Common sense led us to believe that we could not possibly be related to monkeys, and that the speed of light is not constant.
Science can potentially shed light on all matters of belief, scientific or philosophical. But in reality, it's limited because we are limited. Just like any living being "below" us is. How much we can understand is limited by who we are. Just like your pet dog probably can't figure out what holds it down to the ground, instead of falling of the edge of the world. I even doubt it can even think about the problem.
Believers in a God, are believers because they believe without scientific proof. I always contended that so-called non-believers are also believers. Because they believe Gods do not exist without proof. Of course their defense is that you can't prove a negative. But is that proof? Or is it evidence of the limitations of Science, or more accurately the limitations of humans.
I am a scientist. I have a doctoral degree in Chemistry. So I have at least a basic understanding of the scientific method. I use it every day. But are scientist qualified to say a God cannot exists because there is no proof of its existence? Within the area of Science, they must assume there is no god. In fact, in their minds, they shouldn't even bother debating it because it is not a scientific problem. It's a philosophical problem. Car mechanics do not concern themselves with the stock market, because they can’t fix cars by checking Wall Street. Two very different problems.
Personally I THINK there is something more out there. Is it a God? I don't know. I can hardly explain why I think there is anything more. Maybe I'm too influence by my parents (catholic). Maybe I'm too afraid of there being nothing left of me when I die. That I won’t ever meet the people I care about again. That could certainly influence my thinking. But the possibility of being influence by my one humanity, doesn't mean I'm wrong. How many times have people done the right thing, for the wrong reasons.
I guess I'm agnostic. I'm not faithful enough to believe in a God outright, but not arrogant enough to presume there isn't one because it is scientifically absurd.
I could go on, and on.
You aren't sure? Does that mean that you are agnostic about your agnosticism?Quote:
Originally Posted by MassSpec
Have a laugh. Thats ok (not being sarcastic). I don't speak for all agnostics. Like any other's opinion about this subject, we all reason in a different way. Some might say it's lazy not to picking sides and being agnostic. Not trying to outsmart anyone. Just giving my opionion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
God may exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by MassSpec
But people's specific Gods do not exist. Specific Gods are made up creations, easy to spot just by looking at their religious text with a critical eye.
Well I'm a hard-core, fundamentalist, agnostic, not one of those wishy-washy, fair-weather agnostic types. I am absolutely convinced that I don't have a clue what the right answer is, and will disparage anybody who suggests otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by MassSpec
By definition an agnostic is wishy-washy, unless of course you mean to say you're an atheist.
I would think agnostic and fundamentalist are inherently contradictory. Believers and non-believers can include fundamentalist (extremist), both of which are so commited to their beliefs they consider other variations as being flawed. As an agnostic, on the other hand, I am not commited to any idea of God, not because I think there is a God or not, but because I see no persuasive argument either way.
About agnostic being wishy-washy....
The Webster dictionary defines wishy-washy as..
1 : lacking in character or determination : ineffectual <wishy–washy leadership>
2 : lacking in strength or flavor
As such, it has nothing to do with assuming an agnostic opinion. This is not about character. Its about reasoning as best as one can to arriving at, in this case, one of 3 conclusions: Yes / No / and None of the Above.
We get together and burn question marks while chanting, "Hunh?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MassSpec
My Reasons
1. Dinosaurs,
2. No sex before marriage
agnostics... You can't have it every way. Either one religion is right or none of them are or all of them are.
1. If one is right, you are wrong by not choosing that one.
2. If none of them are, you are wrong because you haven't realized they are all wrong.
3. If all of them are, you are wrong my not deciding on one of them.
In any case, you haven't made a decision and that makes you wishy-washy.
I'm a person that doesn't believe in big things unless they are shown, therefore i don't believe in the existence of God.