LightFusion™

IDEA: (Just got this idea from dglienna)... We should have a function (called Tab()) that helps with formatting (mostly in monospace fonts). Here is an example of how it would be used:

Code:

---

//Format:
Tab(OutTo As Long)

---

VB Code:

sMyString1 = "Name: Bob" & Tab(20) & "Age: 9" & Tab(35) & "Status: Valid" vbCrLf _
           & "Name: Ezekiel" & Tab(20) & "Age: 20" & Tab(35) & "Status: Valid"
'This would yield:
'Name: Bob           Age: 9         Status: Valid
'Name: Ezekiel       Age: 20        Status: Valid

Because tab would pad spaces until there are OutTo characters in the string. "Name: Bob" is 9 characters so tabbing out to 20 would ad 11 spaces. "Age: 9" is 6 characters so adding 6 to the 20 (26) we already have means & Tab(40) should add 14 more spaces.

I know that ASP offers this and I think it would add some functionality to our language. Especially for printing to .txt documents and other type of formating work.

We could even add a TabL (Tab Line) and TabS (TabShort) functions. TabL() would act as I just described and TabS() would start counting at the end of the last tab so that the user doesn't have to add things up as much. The above example would work like this with TabS():

VB Code:

sMyString1 = "Name: Bob" & TabS(20) & "Age: 9" & TabS(15) & "Status: Valid" vbCrLf _
           & "Name: Ezekiel" & TabS(20) & "Age: 20" & TabS(15) & "Status: Valid"

Let me know if that made any sense.

I think I am going to take over the job of documenting the library (similar to how Jake is going to document the syntax). But first we need to decide how the format will be. I would like everyone to suggest ideas on how we should go about this. Sort alphabetically? Sort by data type? In .doc? What fields should we include? Here is all I can think of off the top of my head:

Code:

---

Name:
Type: [Function/Sub]
Parameters: [ByVal/ByRef] [Name] [Data Type]
Return Value: [Data Type]
Description: [Including a short description of each parameter and return value]

---

Please feel free to add to this because I am sure I am forgetting something.

I also think we should get a lot of work done on the syntax now while we don't have many other things distracting us (compiler, syntax, IDE, options, features, etc.). We can discuss how to optimize each library function here and impliment the one we all decide is the fastest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eyeRmonkey

BTW I wrote my first ASM program. Thanks a ton to Jake for this.

Code:

---

#include <stdio.h>


inline int test(int num)
{
        _asm
        {
                mov eax, num
                mov ebx, 5

                imul eax, ebx
        }
}

int main(void)
{
        int num = 3;

        printf("%d\n", test(3));

        return 0;
}

---

EDIT: I posted the wrong code the first time.

---

Very nice. Your learning, eyeRmonkey. I oughta rate your post. You got props for that.

w00t 3000 posts!!! :thumb:

Congrats to you both!

What, for learning assembly?

eyeRmonkey:

The {} idea for strings is kinda what C# has. Its more like the sprintf function in C++ though..:

Code:

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Console.WriteLine("Hello {0}, how are you {1}? {2} good", "User", "today", "I'm");

---

chem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

What, for learning assembly?

---

Nah, the 3K posts. 1K more and you get another rep point power.

Kool! Can't wait.

What string type do you guys want to use?

I like how with BSTRs you have the length of the string before the buffer. It is fairly safe and very quick to read the length. I like the fact that it is a pointer to a buffer, which makes swapping strings very quick, but I dislike the extra pointer (**BSTR) which I think is unnecessary.

And will it be wide (Unicode) or ANSI?

Before I know this I can't write any string functions.

Have you been writing any fuctions penagate? If so please post them as you write them. Partly so I can document them. Partly so other people who read this can see how we are doing and partly so other people can reccomend optimizations. Perferably we would all post all our library functions as we go. I think that would be best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chemicalNova

eyeRmonkey:

The {} idea for strings is kinda what C# has. Its more like the sprintf function in C++ though..:

Code:

---

Console.WriteLine("Hello {0}, how are you {1}? {2} good", "User", "today", "I'm");

---

chem

---

I know its like that, but I want it to be like I posted. Its easier than lining up {0} {1} and {2} with the proper variable. It might be a little more work for the compiler, but thats ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penagate

What string type do you guys want to use?

I like how with BSTRs you have the length of the string before the buffer. It is fairly safe and very quick to read the length. I like the fact that it is a pointer to a buffer, which makes swapping strings very quick, but I dislike the extra pointer (**BSTR) which I think is unnecessary.

And will it be wide (Unicode) or ANSI?

Before I know this I can't write any string functions.

---

I remember, there was an Instruction set for asm. Where -1 returned the length of the string:

Code:

---

var db "BLAH!",0
mov eax,var
dec eax
mov eax,eax

---

EAX would hold 5 now. Not sure if it applies to MASM. If it does, I've been doing things the long way... :|

I'll get MASM later and start writing a few things.

chem

You didn't need the last line mov eax, eax. Like the tutorial said, there's no point in that because you are just moving the data that's within the register into the same register. That would be like this if done in VB:

VB Code:

Private eax As Long
 
Private Sub ASM_Test()
 
     eax = 5 'mov eax, 5
 
     eax = eax 'mov eax, eax
 
End Sub

See what I mean?

I think it was meant to be

Code:

---

mov eax, [eax]

---

move to eax, the value at the address in eax.

Habbit. The books and tutorials I've had for yonks have mostly had something like that in it. Possibly to drill something into the head, but meh. It became part of my coding habbit.

chem

Also, I had a thought that you guys could borrow some syntax from Pascal? You seem to be going the route of C++ but if features from all the languages were in it..

Just a thought.

chem

Images 4.0.3 and 4.2.1 look nice. The rest suck. :D

I thought BSTR's were bad. VB used them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by penagate

I think it was meant to be

Code:

---

mov eax, [eax]

---

move to eax, the value at the address in eax.

---

LOL.

Gotta love sleep.

chem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

I thought BSTR's were bad. VB used them.

---

I like them except for the extra pointer.

Basically it is a pointer to a pointer to the start of the string buffer. And 4 bytes immediately before the buffer, holds the byte length of the string.

I would like to see just a pointer to the buffer, and the 4-byte length. Advantages are, its easy to swap strings (just swap pointers) and having the length there makes it quick to do length calculations and also provides a measure of protection against buffer overruns caused by not having a terminating null character.

I don't know much about BSTR's because I havn't gotten very far in the ASM tutorial I am reading. Could someone elaborate on them for me. What other types of strings are there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeRmonkey

I think I am going to take over the job of documenting the library (similar to how Jake is going to document the syntax). But first we need to decide how the format will be. I would like everyone to suggest ideas on how we should go about this. Sort alphabetically? Sort by data type? In .doc? What fields should we include? Here is all I can think of off the top of my head:

Code:

---

Name:
Type: [Function/Sub]
Parameters: [ByVal/ByRef] [Name] [Data Type]
Return Value: [Data Type]
Description: [Including a short description of each parameter and return value]

---

Please feel free to add to this because I am sure I am forgetting something.

I also think we should get a lot of work done on the syntax now while we don't have many other things distracting us (compiler, syntax, IDE, options, features, etc.). We can discuss how to optimize each library function here and impliment the one we all decide is the fastest.

---

I am quoting this to bring it up again and get more input so I can start documenting stuff and not have to do the work twice if someone thinks up something else to add.

Alphabetically. I also think the documentation should be in HTML format with a treeview style selection. Kinda like the online MSDN.

chem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chemicalNova

Alphabetically. I also think the documentation should be in HTML format with a treeview style selection. Kinda like the online MSDN.

chem

---

That sound great but I need an easy way to do it. I can't just write all the HTML myself. I can't even take the time to write some ASP or JavaScript to do most of the work for me. I need a free program that would do it.

Word files are a good option. You can create bookmarks, and an Index automatically

I'm excited.

I just found a file I downloaded a long time ago called HTML Help Workshop. It is by microsoft and its free. It makes .chm (Compiled Help Mechanism) and lets you do everything in HTML (or text). This will be perfect if ever try to deploy the language.

Jake, you should still make a .doc with the syntax, I will just convert it to the .chm as we go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeRmonkey

I don't know much about BSTR's because I havn't gotten very far in the ASM tutorial I am reading. Could someone elaborate on them for me. What other types of strings are there?

---

Joacim Andersson explains BSTRs :)

The docs have got a loooooong way to go before I upload it. I gotta cover as much as I can.

And also, for those of you who should know, it cannot look too much like C++, like Java, C#, or any other C++ looking syntax language did. I know it would be easy for people who program in them to port over if it were to have a familiar syntax, but come on. The point in this language is to have easy to read, easy to code syntax, with it running at high speed. And it won't be hard to learn either. Any new language you start programming in, you have to learn eventually anyways, only in this case, it should be cake. The rules however will stay the same. Operators will be the same as C++, stuctures will be structures and not Types, and many other things.

I understand what you are saying Jake because you have mentioned it a few times. Just please keep this in mind as we go: You can't just change it for the sake of changing it.

I realize you want to have this language be its own thing and not like a Cish language, but you need reasons for changing things. An example of a good reason for doing something is how you said you wanted to remove ; because it means less typing. That is a great reason. I don't necisarrily agree with it, but it is a good reason none the less.

On the other hand, changing all the operators for the sake of being different isn't a very good reason.

Back to the use of ";". Since you are doing most of the compiler work, it is somewhat you choice, but as someone (penagate?) mentioned earlier, it is easier for the compiler to look for ; and not CrLF, but that would mean we would FORCE a ; onto the programmer, otherwise the compiler would have to look for CrLF anyway.

So in the long run I agree with you that it shouldn't be in the syntax, but I think it does increase readablity and it makes it easier to do mutiline statements on 1 line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

The docs have got a loooooong way to go before I upload it. I gotta cover as much as I can.

---

But are you willing to help me transfer you .doc's into this .chm help file? I assuming you know some HTML?

The docs are gonna more be like blue prints of the syntax. Ideas and such.

And I wanted to only change 2 operators. ^ for exponents rather than use it as an XOR operator, and vise versa for something else. But since people have been complaining....

I thought ^ was for exponents? Did I see that discussion in this thread or some thread in Classic VB?

That's what I mean. Let's use that operator for exponents in LightFusion. In C++ ^ was used for the XOR operator. But I couldn't come up with a decent symbol for exponents other than ^. You wanted a reason for certain changes like this one, right?

Yeah, thats a fine thing to change. I don't remember that being brought up in this thread, but I forget a lot of things. I totally agree with that. ^ is exponent in VB right?

What should we do for XOR?

I had a few symbols in mind: @, #, ><, etc. Hmmmm....

why not just make XOR a special one

like perhaps you could have some of the less common operators refered to as their name

vb6 has "Mod" as an operator

perhaps you could have something like #XOR or #XOR#
so you could have others in the same syntax

#XOR
#MOD
#NOT
#IS

Or how about just XOR without the #'s. Easier to read, and less typing.

Sounds like a secent idea to me. Especially because XOR isn't all that common and doing exponents is.

I don't mind #XOR. We could even do that with all our bitwise ones. I don't mind differing from C++ operators in that area. Does anyone have a list of C++ operaters they can link me to? Or should I just reference that C# one we used earlier?

PS - How do you do exponents in C++?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jacob Roman

The docs are gonna more be like blue prints of the syntax. Ideas and such.

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If its just going to be ideas and such then I will document it later in greater depth.