Jesus4u Thread...

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God has many awesome things in store for you

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Let's say I have a healthy son. And I raise him and make sure he gets the best opurtunities, and take an active role in his childhood. I have lots of good things in store for him. I make sure he does good in school, goes to Duke, and becomes an MD.

He would be successful trauma surgeon, and I would be a horrible parent. Just because he is my son doesn't mean I get to control his life, even if I do it with the best of intentions.

I don' t know how to explain it without writting a story so you could see it unfold. But we didn't ask to be created. And just because we may have been, doesn't mean we should give up our rights to autonomy.

Now, whether or not we were created is irrelevant. The question is, does your god truely think he is just in damning us because we won't love him. Mind you, he may be well aware of how unjust that is, which is all the more reason to rebel.

If your god didn't demand tribute, I would be willing to give it. Since your god demands tribute solely on the grounds that he created us and thinks that that somehow entitles him... well... sorry, Overlord, but we've struggled for universal sufrage among our own kind, we aren't about to bow to you.

"Who are you?"
"I'm your King."
"I didn't vote for you."
-Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail

Now if he demands tribute and has a good reason, I would not only love to hear it, but be willing to judge it independently and, if need be, pay the tribute.

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Originally posted by parksie
I think we should worship Ciber as the antichrist, actually.

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Hmmm... worshippers. :> Yesssss.

My first order: Bring me more Dr Pepper. Oooo... and something chocalaty.

My Second order: Get the hell out of my church. Damn beggars. Last thing I want is the responsibility of taking care of you. You'd've thought that if I gave you the ability to reason, free thought, and opposible thumbs you could take care of yourself.

Ooo... I didn't give you that stuff. Right. Someone else did. Well, anyway, I don't want you. Now go away. :)

Oh, and leave the Dr Pepper.

hey j4u, im gonna report ur signature, coz it offends me, its not that offensive, actually, it dont really insult me, it just goes against my belief, JESUS WAS A PROPHET, HE WAS NOT THE SON OF GOD!!

but im just showing marty that ANYTHING can be deemed offensive coz he keeps making me remove my comments about ******* ****ron (ariel sharon)

so in short, im gonna report u, but dont take it 2 heart, im just making a point, and ur sig does kinda piss me off :D

it'll never come off

well tashboy, austin 3:16 says

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I JUST WHOOPED YOUR ASS!!

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:D

what DOES tashboy mean anyway?

errrr........Ghost.......his signature doesn't say anything about murdering someone or about slandering an entire population by saying that they condone murder. Your location did. It is just a difference of your belief and his. Not the same thing at all.

j4u, u have a moustach...hence...tashboy!! :D if u REALLY find it offensive i will stop, but if u dont find it 2 bad, then i wont

seriously, tell me if it seriously offends you, coz i dont wanna offend people


katie, i know, i sort of said that, im just tryin 2 prove a point 2 marty

and i dont wanna murder israelis, that would make me no better than sharon, he is a murderer and a racist and because he has friends in the west he will continue to kill and hurt people.

i just think if ur gonna say "dead or alive" 2 bin laden, then u gotta say "dead or alive" to sharon as well (and others)

oh no offense taken

thats good then tashboy ;):D

Wow, I must've missed something.

GR, I don't know what your problem with Sharon is, but he can hardly be classified as a terrorist. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Yes, maybe Britian shouldn't've given Palestine to the Jews. Yes, maybe Isreal should return lands to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan. And maybe Isreal should let parts of Jerusalem be under self control.

But you can't call them a terrorist simply because they get a little zealous in defending what they have. Look who they are fighting, suicide bombers!

Regardless of your stand on Palestine, the PLO is just making things worse. They are terrorist and should be dealt with accordingly.

And I'm sure the same could be said about the IRA, but I don't know.

dont know?? they are the SAME!!

but they get white house money and get 2 have dinner there
sharon is a USA ally

YES HE IS A TERRORIST, JUST COZ THE WESTERN MEDIA DONT PORTRAY HIM AS ONE DONT MEAN HE AINT, AND IM NOT JUST REFFERING 2 WHAT HE DID IN GAZA, HE HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONG TIME

dont tell me he isnt a terrorist, he is, and he gets away with it because he is a jew (im not dissin jews here, im stating my opinion) and bin laden gets punished coz he is a muslim who attacks the west, sharon is a jew who attacks the muslims, so they love him

anyways, post a reply, but i may take a while 2 reply coz im studyin for a maths test

I was saying I don't know about the IRA. I haven't been paying attention to them.

Anyone have a count of the number of times the Isrealis have broken cease fires?

Look, you see Isreal, the Jews, and the Brits before them, as invaders. You see Palestine as a sovereign nation that has been invaded by an outside force.

That is fine. Fight back. I'm an American, so I can understand revolution. But the day you walk a bomb into a downtown cafe and kill two dozen civilians is the day you get sympathy from no one.

If you do not curb the extremists in your ranks, then you honestly don't stand a chance.

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bin laden gets punished coz he is a muslim who attacks the west

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Bin Laden gets punished coz he is a murderer, trains murderers, harbors murderers and rejoices when they murder. Him being muslim has no bearing.

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Bin Laden gets punished coz he is a murderer, trains murderers, harbors murderers and rejoices when they murder. Him being muslim has no bearing.

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so does ariel sharon, but your right, i shouldnt have added muslim, sorry :( my bad, but he is persecuted more than others coz he attacks the west

and i dont see israelis etc as invaders, i see israelis as people who are entitled to just as many rights as muslims, christians or gambian midgets

i see ARIEL SHARON as a murderer and a terrorist who is backed by the west

and guys, lets not argue, i just wanted 2 make a point that some people can say what they want on these forums, and i cant, if i had said "i will kill bin laden" or "i will kill saddam" marty wouldnt have said anything, double-standards there. i thought bush said "a terrorist is a terrorist" well i suppose as long as he is all pally with bush it doesnt matter does it :rolleyes:

I don't want to argue with you either ghost but I think you might be selling Marty short. I think that if someone wrote a thread or location that said "I will kill .....whoever" that he would censor it. I really can't speak for him but I know that the idea of stating that anyone should be killed is disturbing to me. If you think about it, it might disturb you as well. The world is a violent enough place without reveling in the violence and being a proponent of it!

*shrug* Well, identify a terrorist act that you can credit to Sharon.

Al Qeuda: WTC and over 5000 fatalities.
PLO: Two bombings this past weekend alone in teenage cafes killing nearly two dozen (?) civilians.

So, what has Sharon done?

katie, fair enough, i dont think he would, but point taken, lets end it with the bump *starts 2 do the bump and katie just points and laughs* :( :D lol

travis, he doesnt commit acts of terror, he has BIG money weapons from the USA so everything he does is military, if the USA had given the PLO helicopter gunships and armoured tanks, im sure we would see less carbombs and more gunship fire, but the USA only sell 2 the israelis
but he still causes terror and kills innocent palestinians, therefore i call him a terrorist and a murderer, an example...

after those idiots assasinated that old (AND VERY RACIST) dude in the government, he shelled a girls school, yeah ive found that a lot of 9 year old girls have taken to assassination these days :rolleyes:

and lets not argue, its pretty obvious neither of us is gonna budge, and i may say sumthin in teh heat of the moment and get banned (gee, what a tradegy)

Well why do you think the Israelis take military action?

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Originally posted by ghost ryder
he shelled a girls school

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Okay, that is something I didn't know. What did the government say after they did this?

i believe they claimed terrorists (the assasins) were in there hidin, or around teh surrounding area

so rather than thinking about it, the mother****er sent in tanks and shelled teh school to pieces, but the western media had maybe mentioned it once

its sad things like that which have made me act this way 2 him



and harry, i know this is gonna sound TERRIBLY childish, but the israelis started it, they attacked first, and then they ***** when they get attacked by physchos with bombs strapped 2 their chests, which is wrong by the way

Well.... you're right, it does sound childish :(

What exactly did they do when the attacked first? What's your timescale on this?

Ciber has a point - I haven't heard of Israel breaking any ceasefires without being attacked by Palestinian extremists. Perhaps that's because I'm uninformed?

look man, i dont wanna argue, im so depressed im on the verge of doin sumthin stupid, i ****ed one test up, and im gonna **** another one up 2moro, so can we just not argue for the rest of the day

which i should really sleep, maybe if im lucky i wont wake up

that would be nice

Ghost, get a grip. You're meant to be an adult, you are at university looking after yourself aren't you? You don't need to complain about how badly yrou life is going all the time. Instead of saying things that imply you're losing it, why don't you spend your effort on fixing things?

I had some pretty major issues at the end of my first year @uni. I failed about third of my courses because I was preoccupied with other parts of my life, and had to retake some and some they let me off for. I had a f***ing terrible summer. So what do you do? You go back and sort your life out. You don't start saying you're going to do something stupid.

I mean, come on, it's just a test. I've messed up plenty of exams. I've turned up late to them, forgotten about them until the morning I had to take them, and even missed them completely. It's not the end of the world, you just put it behind you and get on with whatever's next.

Don't tell yourself you're going to mess it up, be positive. Relax. It's just an exam.

harry, eyah well u know how oit is man, its not tjuust wth test, im jyst having a ****ing bsand gfay, and u can see im habing troulesb tyupong, amd ai cant ber ****ed to hgo and change it, its so fuking ddeprsseding

anjd i dont knopw whsat i can do w fi it, weelll i could takje tuping lessimsn, lol

how is all doing?

Check out my new sig...

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Originally posted by beachbum
Monty, how did u get 1 post???? He's not the messiah, he's just a very keen programmer :eek:

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LOL

I thought this would be good for all to read. Have an awesome day!

And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself
and became obedient to death -- even death on a cross!
Philippians 2:8

Christ's amazing love should humble us even more
than a consciousness of our own guilt.

Jesus loves all of you :)

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Originally posted by jesus4u
Jesus loves all of you :)

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He loves me the most :D

:D

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Originally posted by jesus4u
Jesus loves all of you :)

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Except for florists....

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Yeah, you are contradicting yourself, and your god. Your god is a very vengeful and wrathful god, who doesn't hesitate to destroy or damn those who do not do as he says. I'm missing that unconditional love thing.

But the only reason you can give is... god made man so that man could know god. Before god made man, there was no man, so man wasn't lacking in its knowledge of anything. Which conludes that the problem (man not knowing god) was a result of our creation, not a cause for it.

Yeah... sounds like your god made man just so he would have company. We were all perfectly happy in our bliss and non-existant state before he came along. Selfish much?

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What's to be confused about? Why must you love something, and still approve of it? If I have a son, and he goes on a murdering rampage, he'll deserve whatever the law has to throw at him, most likely. I'll love him...but that doesn't mean I'll deny that punishment is in order. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Selfish? Hardly. Do you want to be alive? Are you glad you're here? God made man, IMO, for the same kind of reason you or I would like to have children. To share joy and love.

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If your god didn't demand tribute, I would be willing to give it. Since your god demands tribute solely on the grounds that he created us and thinks that that somehow entitles him... well... sorry, Overlord, but we've struggled for universal sufrage among our own kind, we aren't about to bow to you.

"Who are you?"
"I'm your King."
"I didn't vote for you."
-Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail

Now if he demands tribute and has a good reason, I would not only love to hear it, but be willing to judge it independently and, if need be, pay the tribute.

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The quote is as follows:

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"Order, eh? Who does he think he is?"
"I am your King."
"Well I didn't vote for you."
"You don't vote for Kings."
"Well how did you become King, then?"

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Good reason? Hmmm...how about giving you everything you have? How about being the sole reason you exist? Really? That's not enough? Sounds to me like you're a little high on yourself, then. Convinced you've got here all by yourself, eh? Hmmm.

Anyway, I'd like to point out that you DO judge it independently. Demand it? I dunno about that. Technically yes, but reasonably, you have a choice in the matter. Picture it: a perfect God actually bothers to create you...a flawed, weak creature that should be nothing to you. He loves you anyway, and asks only that you acknowledge him as your Creator, and acknowledge the pain he endured for you. You know, you can't expect forgiveness when you don't acknowledge you've done anything wrong in the first place.

His grounds for "tribute," as you put it, is that he endured pain and bothered to create you in the first place. What other hoops should He jump through to earn your approval?

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seriously, tell me if it seriously offends you, coz i dont wanna offend people

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if anything said above offended you, then you get offended too easily

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hey j4u, im gonna report ur signature, coz it offends me

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Hmmm. Interesting.

TWTCommish

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Picture it: a perfect God actually bothers to create you...a flawed, weak creature that should be nothing to you.

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Right, so you admit that God created us as weak and flawed and yet we are to be thankful for that?

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You know, you can't expect forgiveness when you don't acknowledge you've done anything wrong in the first place.

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OK and what exactly have we done wrong here? Why should we even need to be forgiven? He created us as "weak, flawed creatures" that are obviously destined to fall foul of God's high expectations (which he must have known perfectly well we could not match) and then we must grovel for forgiveness for not being better than we were created to be.

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What other hoops should He jump through to earn your approval?

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We don't want his approval. If we were given life by God, let us live it. If we were given free-will by God, let us choose our own destiny.

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Right, so you admit that God created us as weak and flawed and yet we are to be thankful for that?

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We made a choice, and we failed, as a race. We are flawed. Why are we flawed? Because we were given free will. If we were made as little puppets that were incapable of doing any wrong, things would be worse, IMO. Puppet humans are worse than flawed humans who, at the very least, can make their own choices.

Are you thankful to be alive? Do you wish you were never born?

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OK and what exactly have we done wrong here? Why should we even need to be forgiven? He created us as "weak, flawed creatures" that are obviously destined to fall foul of God's high expectations (which he must have known perfectly well we could not match) and then we must grovel for forgiveness for not being better than we were created to be.

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Grovel? Your true feelings are revealed: you are too proud to follow God. Your post oozes with this general feeling of arrogance and pride. How dare God, who has created all, tell you to recognize Him for what He is, and what He's done. You're better than that. You should not be subjected to worshipping the God that gave you all you have, and all you ever will have.

Here's what you've done wrong: you've sinned. I'll bet you already knew that, though.

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We don't want his approval. If we were given life by God, let us live it. If we were given free-will by God, let us choose our own destiny.

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Don't you see? You are living it. Right now, you are rejecting your Creator. You're making a choice. We don't want his approval? Who is we? I suggest you speak for yourself alone in this matter.

You've talked about, more than once, about how we should make our own decisions, and how God should not be dictating and demanding, basically...but he's not doing those things. If He did not give you this freedom that you seem to be complaining about, you wouldn't be rejecting him at this very moment, would you?

God is owed respect and "tribute" because of what He endured for us, and the very fact that he created us. I'm sorry to hear that you are, apparently, too proud to "grovel," as you put it...though it really only involves acknowleding Him for what He is and what He did. If someone were crucified for me, I'd be awfully thankful.

:rolleyes:

If god is all powerful, how did he suffer for us? Surely it would be no bother for him to create our species.

You're going to say he sent his only son to die for us. But he rose again three days later. Hardly a great loss. What about all of the people who have died willingly in the name of religion. Let's do a rough tally. God lost one son (but got him back) so we'll give him half a point for that. With all the religeous wars, inquisitions, plauges, global floods etc. lets say a conservative estimate is 100,000,000 people have died for god. None of them came back, so we'll award the human race 100,000,000 point's. By my reconning God owes us a lot more than we owe him. I think it's time he ante's up and sends down some beer and some nymphomanics!

SD

The joke is appreciated (pretty funny, actually), but, surprise surprise, I don't agree with the principle.

How did he suffer for us? He just did. Being capable of avoiding the pain, and avoiding it, are two different things. He took on a great burden to give us a second chance.

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You're going to say he sent his only son to die for us. But he rose again three days later. Hardly a great loss.

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Alright, let's lash you a few dozen times, stick thorns on your head, and nail you to some wood. Hey, quit squirming, man...I told you: you'll come back three days later. So what's the big deal? :rolleyes:

Using your logic, the people who die in the name of religion...those who are doing so truly for God (I ain't talkin' Bin Laden here), shouldn't really count, either, because they go somewhere far better. They don't want to come back, my friend. There are no points, anyway. This is not a game. God and man are not equivalent.

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But no, not everyone who dies for God is rewarded, because some of them have made poor choice concerning what God is. That's my opinion, though.

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He's the reason I'm here at all...and my reward is waiting for me.

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How do you know that you haven't made a poor choice about what God is?

Why is it that you seek confirmation of your beliefs ? If you're so absolutely convinced that He will care for you now and in the afterlife then why bother convincing non-believers, who are obviously on a rollercoaster ride straight to hell ?
The only form of defence from your "side" I've seen so far always boils down to the following : "He exists because the book says so. Believe or suffer the consequences".
Not pretty much of a defence I must say.
You are even willing to justify atrocities commited by Christians and other believers in the course of time just because they "believed".
I can only hope that your black and white life will not end in emptyness.
I also agree with BB when he said that posting here isn't going to yield much result in terms of understanding, let alone conversion. The most you'll get for your views from fellow forum dwellers is a shrug, a kind word of respect and a look usually reserved when addressing a mentally challenged.


Oh Wait ! I'm being condescending again ! Better stop now or Mr. Christian will wreak havoc upon me. :rolleyes: