Israeli/Palestinian fighting

InvisibleDuncan

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I was making no argument as to whether the Israelies/Palestinians/neither are right; I was simply countering your (false!) assertion that Palestine is a country.

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OK and I was making the point that it's status as a country depends on who you ask.

Even the Israelis themselves refer to the Palestinian areas as "occupied territories", a name that we do even use for northern Ireland.

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Incidentally, since I already knew you were talking to me, why did you feel the need to use my name as a title?

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I'm sorry if it bothers you, It's just a habit stick to since it is not always obvious, when people post, who they are replying to.

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Originally posted by chrisjk
no, he said sending threads to the back pages

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yea, you post to get to a new page, the old threads are back a few pages :p

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Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan

Incidentally, since I already knew you were talking to me, why did you feel the need to use my name as a title? :confused:

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Rules of debating - did I teach you nothing? ;)



sorry leaving now...

I read in the Guardian before this mess started really kicking up that the Israelies treat Muslim people very poorly (within Israel itself) and have done for many years.

Araft is definately a terrorist looney tune, but Sharon is a nutter too. I'm glad America is easing away from supporting either one side or the other, there needs to be a little objective reasoning if we're to prevent mass destruction.

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Originally posted by simonm
I'm sorry if it bothers you, It's just a habit stick to since it is not always obvious, when people post, who they are replying to.

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It doesn't bother me ( :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: ); I was just curious. :)

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Originally posted by simonm
InvisibleDuncan
Even the Israelis themselves refer to the Palestinian areas as "occupied territories", a name that we do even use for northern Ireland.

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I thought the bit they referred to as 'the occupied territories' was the heavily disputed areas with all the tanks and settlers and bombers and all that.

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Originally posted by SjR
Rules of debating - did I teach you nothing? ;)



sorry leaving now...

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1) Sorry.
‡) Don't know what I was thinking of.

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Originally posted by Flustor
I read in the Guardian before this mess started really kicking up that the Israelies treat Muslim people very poorly (within Israel itself) and have done for many years.

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That's the kind of thing you would read in the Guardian. Similarly, I read in the Telegraph that the Israelis are lovely and wouldn't harm a soul except under the direst provocation.

I would imagine the truth is somewhere in between.

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I thought the bit they referred to as 'the occupied territories' was the heavily disputed areas with all the tanks and settlers and bombers and all that.

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Yes, that's right. Palestine encompases the West Bank and the Gaza strip. I don't think that many Israeli settlers are bothered so much about living in Gaza but they think that much of the West Bank is "holy" land which was given to them by God.

Dry Bones

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/0...on___Large.gif http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/0...in_Picture.gif http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/0...in_Picture.gif http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/0...in_Picture.gif

thanx chenko ,that was my point

Palestine isn't a country, why do they call them palestinians ?:D

Harry

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They didn't go there to destroy the country, they went there to settle. The story has already been told in this thread if you were paying any attention

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oh yeah ,to settle what ?
and what security reasons force them to kill people and destroy houses?

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Are you claiming they aren't?

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yes I am
simonm

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However, the Palestinians themselves do not view the Israeli occupation of their land as legitimat

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Thank you

InvisibleDuncan :

so what is the other map of palestine ?

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Palestine isn't a country, why do they call them palestinians ?

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London is not a country, why am I called a Londoner?;)

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Originally posted by simonm

Yes, that's right. Palestine encompases the West Bank and the Gaza strip. I don't think that many Israeli settlers are bothered so much about living in Gaza but they think that much of the West Bank is "holy" land which was given to them by God.

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Ah, yes. Sorry, I misread your previous post :)

nad_scorp

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...and what security reasons force them to kill people and destroy houses?

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I think that is a little bit of an exageration, don't you think? :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by RSINGH


London is not a country, why am I called a Londoner?;)

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ok got it:D
but you know what I mean

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Originally posted by simonm
nad_scorp

I think that is a little bit of an exageration, don't you think? :rolleyes:

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what exageration ,specify ?

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Originally posted by RSINGH


London is not a country, why am I called a Londoner?;)

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Originally posted by nad_scorp

It's a country not a city

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Never mind RSINGH - I got your point :) I'm sure others did too


ooops *edit* misquoted you first time :o

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Originally posted by nad_scorp


It's a country not a city

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Although many Londoners are vain enough to think the whole world revolves around them, we wouldn't go that far.

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Never mind RSINGH - I got your point

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Thanks - I'm glad someone listens;)

nad_scorp

I have been to Israel several times and I know for a fact that Israelis are not forced or expected to go out and kill palestinian people. That's just downright, provokative nonsense.

It is true that most Israelis dislike and look down on Palestinians. They are often treated as second class citizens but acts of agression against Palestinians are almost always in response to violence purpetrated by Palestinian people.

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Originally posted by nad_scorp
Palestine isn't a country, why do they call them palestinians ?:D

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Uhh... that's just a silly argument.

I am quite willing to agree that as far as most Palestinians are concerned, Palestine is their country, and probably to a lot of Palestinian sympathisers around the world. Still, the majority view and the legal view seems to be that it isn't.

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oh yeah ,to settle what ?
and what security reasons force them to kill people and destroy houses?

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Are you genuinely asking these questions? These issues have been talked about already. If you really can't understand the Israeli point of view on this issue then I don't think there's much point in me discussing it with you.

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yes I am

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Exactly how would you know? I don't know. I doubt very many people know. How is it that you know?


I can see the point of view of both sides. I just don't think either is behaving any better than the other. The Israelis are being complete bastards by being so arrogant and careless about civilian lives, and the Palestinian militants are being complete bastards by deliberately targetting civilians. If you're going to blow something up, go for a military target, otherwise it's just murder as far as I am concerned.

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Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan
That's the kind of thing you would read in the Guardian. Similarly, I read in the Telegraph that the Israelis are lovely and wouldn't harm a soul except under the direst provocation.

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I don't think so, the artical followed one impartial woman's trek around Jerusalem. She mixed with Jewish & Muslim people and found a two teir system of living in which the Muslim's were treated pretty poorly.
The artical went into depth about these peoples lives, her Jewish friends also admitted that this was a true state of affairs. The Gaurdian is often bias towards the left wing, but still I don't think it was fabricated.
Both elder brother's both trekked around Israel and found hints of this kind of oppression.
I don't side towards either party as I'm not of either religion but on the whole I believe it to be true.

Well, I began this morning reading the latest misguided op eds from nad_scorp and chenko, taking mental notes of all the flimsy points that I would have to assail and realizing that any real productive work on my program would be delayed for quite a long reply.

And then, I read the posts of HarryW and InvisibleDuncan and I realize that everything I wanted to point out was already done so, and quite eloquently indeed.

Thank you guys for freeing up my morning.

BTW, if Africa isn't a country, why do you call them Africans?

OK I agree with you all

Bombing of civilians is a not the way to get what u want but at least I wouldn't ever know of what is happening right there if if didn't happen and I refuse even thinking it is being done.

But lots are not aware of what's happening right now
Israel is preventing photographers and journalists from entering some Palestinian countries which are declared as military areas while they are major cities there.
It's just that I fear Israelis will start killing people as they did in them massacre of 1948 ,1967 ,1993,1996 and right now(2002), not only in palestine but what they also did in Lebanon when it was occupied.

Why are they capturing every person between 13-25 force them to get naked and humiliate them?
Why to force some people to get into buildings then executing them claiming they are terrorists, can't they present them for judgment by courts ?

Is there any reason to force them to destroy palestian houses (really lots of them ) ?

Why preventing ambulances from reahing injured ?

Why to kill women and children og ages under a year of ages ...maybe the're terrorists or are threwing rocks to their tanks ?

do you know rocks thrown by children can destroy tanks and apachi planes in palestine ,we have to kill these kids ?

And if you say they're looking for armed people why do they execute unarmed people ?

just a poit of view

Are people from Malta called Malteezers?:)

Okay, and one more question for Moon, and then I really am going to get back to work.

The lower left cartoon from Dry Bones, is there supposed to be a joke in that one? I mean, to me, that one seems right on the money and not funny but just a pure and simple truth.

Nad_scorp

I think a major problem in Palestine is that the terrorists are hiding in amoungst hospitals and schools, partly to try and avoid capture an partly because they know that if the Israelis attack these buildings, it brings them bad publicity.

Palestinian children are being flooded with grotesquely biased proporganda that makes marters out of the suicide bombers and fills them with so much anger that it drives them out onto the street to throw rocks at Israeli tanks.

Palestinian terrorist organisations (and other sympathisers) are stoking up as much anti-israeli hatred as they can because, at the end of the day, these organisations do not want peace. They will not be happy until they have pushed Israel back into the sea.

Don't the Palestinians get it? The more they try and blow up civillians, the worse they make it for themselves.

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Originally posted by nad_scorp
Bombing of civilians is a not the way to get what u want but at least I wouldn't ever know of what is happening right there if if didn't happen and I refuse even thinking it is being done.

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What?! It's not getting them what they want, but at least it's an effective marketing campaign?? What do you mean at least?! They are deliberately killing innocent civilians! Doesn't that make any publicity kind of irrelevant?

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Is there any reason to force them to destroy palestian houses (really lots of them ) ?

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Apparently, they think so. It's all about disputed land.

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Why preventing ambulances from reahing injured ?

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You still haven't explained what it is that makes you so certain of the contents of these ambulances. Perhaps - and I'm not guaranteeing they are - perhaps the ambulances are not as innocent as they seem. That's the motivation for stopping them. This has already been said in this thread several times, pay attention or stop asking silly questions. If you have an opinion then state it with reasons, don't just ask questions that have already been answered.

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Why to kill women and children og ages under a year of ages ...maybe the're terrorists or are threwing rocks to their tanks ?

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Yes, why kill innocent civilians at all? In fact, why kill anyone that isn't pointing a gun at you or threatening your life in some way? Both sides are guilty of this.

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do you know rocks thrown by children can destroy tanks and apachi planes in palestine ,we have to kill these kids ?

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Ditto

these bombings are preventing the other from seeing what Israel is doing with palestinian don't u think so ?

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Originally posted by nad_scorp
these bombings are preventing the other from seeing what Israel is doing with palestinian don't u think so ?

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What?

Bollocks to it all ...

This is a programming forum. What the hell do you think will result from this idiotic bickering ? That the hatred will be ported to this board ? We thank you for leaving that out.

Do you honestly think that we are about to ring up our PM or president to explain the real situation and tell him to get off his lazy arse and do something about it ?

As far as I can see are the UN, US, EU and a whole host of other institutions and countries are trying to resolve the situation (each with his own agenda of course).
Why do you think you can make a difference here ?

You can't even agree on the matter over the internet. You are accusing one another here in this virtual world.
How on earth do you think that will help the Israel/Palestinian situation ?

I have no solution for them besides either 1) Sit around the table and give peace a chance or 2) have an all-out war and settle it for once and for all.

This is not a discussion, this is blindly spouting your anger never mind the consequences.

We've had a million threads like these, give it up already. Those interested repeat the same arguments and those not interested are getting fed up with the whole deal.

Jeez, CC is supposed to be for off-topic bits of fun, not politics.
If you want to discuss politics, get on a political forum.

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Originally posted by nad_scorp
Why are they capturing every person between 13-25 force them to get naked and humiliate them?
Why to force some people to get into buildings then executing them claiming they are terrorists, can't they present them for judgment by courts ?

Is there any reason to force them to destroy palestian houses (really lots of them ) ?

Why preventing ambulances from reahing injured ?

Why to kill women and children og ages under a year of ages ...maybe the're terrorists or are threwing rocks to their tanks ?

do you know rocks thrown by children can destroy tanks and apachi planes in palestine ,we have to kill these kids ?

And if you say they're looking for armed people why do they execute unarmed people ?

just a poit of view

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The problem is, you haven't backed any of this up. A lot of what you say here looks like a hysterical fabrication to me.

Incidentally, although they aren't likely to damage a tank, a thrown stone can kill someone. And whether the Israelis are justified in their retaliation is by and large irrelevant. Would you let your child go and play in a minefield, just because there's no justification for the mines to be there? Of course not. Letting children out to throw stones at soldiers who are known to shoot people who throw stones at them is just as reckless, and just as likely to end in their deaths.

I meant that ones doing bombings are preventing people all over the world from seeing what Israel is doing to palesinians.

by the way check this:
Why we've become suicide

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
If you want to discuss politics, get on a political forum.

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Have you ever looked at the UK Prime Minister's talkback-type forum? It is hands-down the worst forum that was ever devised. It was pretty bad a year or so ago when it was hosted at www.pm.gov.uk but then they moved it over to www.ukonline.gov.uk and now it's just bloody terrible.

I think they made it deliberately bad so people wouldn't use it. There was quite a lot of heated discussion on it before.

You would think that would be the place to discuss it, right ?

Here it is a waste of time, energy, space and everyone's patience.

InvisibleDuncan

I see that u don't believe what I'm saying and that's what I used to think before seeing pictures in TV channels,newspapers and the internet.
That's what I meant with my postings, that people do not know what's happening to palestinians to the contrary of Israelis which the CNN ,BBC and other news networks never stop sending bombings news .

I'll send some pictures if you want to

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Originally posted by nad_scorp
Why are they capturing every person between 13-25 force them to get naked and humiliate them?
Why to force some people to get into buildings then executing them claiming they are terrorists, can't they present them for judgment by courts ?

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I'd be interested to see your proof of this particular nugget.

Wally -

I don't think anyone posting here is delusional enough to think it's going to amount to anything in the big scheme of things (or even in the little scheme, for that matter). I think most of the inspiration for posting is because after you see the daily horrors and the suffering and the human tragedy, you simply need a place to vent and blow off steam.

If you're a sensitive and caring human being, those news reports can really get to you. At lease here is a place we can spout off and let loose whatever may be on our minds.

Kind of like a group meeting, be it Alcoholics Anonymous or Testicular Cancer.

My name's Mike and I'm a Newsaholic.

Fair enough, but does that also mean you have to resurrect these threads over and over again ? Does that also mean you should act like a narrowminded patronising little jerk ? I don't think so.

If it were one thread then yes, I would agree that this is a haven for these people to vent their emotions but not 20+ threads (middle east and related).

Besides there are enough political forums out there who are free in conscription and where they can just as easily vent off steam

My opinion of course ...

>but does that also mean you have to resurrect these threads over and over again ? Does that also mean you should act like a narrowminded patronising little jerk ?

Is this directed to mwah?

BTW, Turtle started this thread and now he's nowhere to be found! Where is that little turtle anyways???