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Arc, the reason people outside the US often loathe americans is a mindset such as yours. It's an egotistical arrogance that you (arc) display, without so much as an inkling of understanding.Quote:
Originally posted by Wally Pipp
It's your loss but don't come complaining to me if people regard you as yet another ignorant, narrowminded American.
Am I implying the rest of the world is perfect? **** no. Just elaborating on wally's statement.
That may be correct but you can't throw other languages out of the window because you don't speak it or won't bother to speak it.Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
I can only speak English although I am slightly embarrassed by the fact and would love to learn another language. I intend to make a concerted effort to learn French this year.
It is difficult for native English speakers to motivate themselves to speak another language because few other languages out there seem to be as useful as the language they already know.
It's a shame but a fact.
A billion chinese speak numerable amounts of chinese dialects. Are you going to tell them they're wrong and their language is outdated ?
No, language is still part of the culture you live in. And as long as you want to preserve that culture, you will preserve the language.
I merely regard it as an achievement that I speak English so well but I speak French and German too and I pride myself on that too.
It's not because you won't bother learning another language someone else shouldn't have that chance.
And by the way : French will regard English as less usefull compared to French. It's the way culture goes. But it doesn't harm to learn about culture and languages outside the scope of your own.
Quote:
Originally posted by mendhak
Arc, the reason people outside the US often loathe americans is a mindset such as yours. It's an egotistical arrogance that you (arc) display, without so much as an inkling of understanding.
Am I implying the rest of the world is perfect? **** no. Just elaborating on wally's statement.
OK well let's see. I am egotistical and arogant becasue i expect Illegal immigrants to speak English when they come to America. Are you ken to Hillary Clinton by any chance?
Like i said... when you get off your high horse and come over here to America and live a couple years then maybe you can tell me how i should feel. Until then you are just talking through your ass.
oh and please explain to me what it is i don't "understand".
Yah well let's see a french guy go on the net and start talking French. He might as well be talking to a brick wall, cause no one is going to give a crap what he's babling about.Quote:
Originally posted by Wally Pipp
And by the way : French will regard English as less usefull compared to French. It's the way culture goes. But it doesn't harm to learn about culture and languages outside the scope of your own.
Ok well let's see. You like to put words in other people's mouths.Quote:
OK well let's see. I am egotistical and arogant becasue i expect Illegal immigrants to speak English when they come to America. Are you ken to Hillary Clinton by any chance?
Ok, do you know where I'm from?Quote:
Like i said... when you get off your high horse and come over here to America and live a couple years then maybe you can tell me how i should feel. Until then you are just talking through your ass.
Reread all the posts from where you started off on your trumpet blowing. Seriously. The answer's there.Quote:
oh and please explain to me what it is i don't "understand".
Wally
Not attall.Quote:
A billion chinese speak numerable amounts of chinese dialects. Are you going to tell them they're wrong and their language is outdated ?
When did I say that?Quote:
It's not because you won't bother learning another language someone else shouldn't have that chance.
I know that French defend their language to the utmost and it is precisely because they're taking so many measures to ensure that their media isn't taken over by english speaking shows that demonstrates how dominant English is.Quote:
And by the way : French will regard English as less usefull compared to French. It's the way culture goes. But it doesn't harm to learn about culture and languages outside the scope of your own.
I don't think my opinion that English is the most useful language is anything to do with my english-centric view point. It's simply a fact.
You don't think we've got illegal immigrants here ?
How about the scores of north africans, africans and East Europeans that come into the union (200.000 a year I think).
Many of them have no papers, don't speak the language of the country ...
How can you expect someone who fled his country to another country (for whatever reason) to speak the language of the country he's fled to perfectly ?
I'm not saying they shouldn't speak the language after a while (give 'em the chance and they will) but I am however saying that it is indeed a bit haughty to expect them to be like you from the arrival. You don't know anything about their background, their heritage and so on ...
If you ever emigrated to France (god help you if you should) would you like someone saying to you : you're lazy, you don't speak our language, you steal our jobs, how dare you enter our country without even speaking French. I doubt if your English is going to save you there ...
No, they will allow you in, accomodate you (as good and as bad as possible) in your own language.
And later you can choose to learn the language for your own benefit. But you should get the chance. No-one should force you.
Your ignorance and arrogance comes from the fact that you dismiss other languages (and attached cultures) with apalling ease, not from the fact that you think they should know English.
OH, and arc... how much have you travelled? Not within the US, but outside the US.
(Yes, those strangely shaped entities outside the US... on the world map... yes.. those are countries :p (kidding))
I didn't put any words in your mouth.Quote:
Originally posted by mendhak
[B]
Ok well let's see. You like to put words in other people's mouths.
Quote:
It's an egotistical arrogance that you (arc) display
No i don't know where you are from, but i can certainly tell it's not AMerica.Quote:
Ok, do you know where I'm from?
Ok i re-read all my posts... care to explain to me where i don't Understand something?Quote:
Reread all the posts from where you started off on your trumpet blowing. Seriously. The answer's there.
I always find it quite amusing when someone from a DIFFERENT country tells me i don't understand America...lol
Wally
I assume you last post was not directed at me?
Wally, you are begingin to understand the situation. you see, the problem is the Immigrants DOn't EVER learn English.. They don;t even try. And why should they when all the businesses cater to them.
Instead of Making Spanish people speak English, Stores and schools and what have you Hire Spanish speaking people to communicate with them. Therfore there is never a need to learn English and so they don't. Like i said they even make SPanish TV and radio... hell it's like they never left Mexico! The problem i have with that is, i'm not Mexican and i don;t want to have to cater to mexican people. If they want to be an American then Speak English!
Simonm, you may regard is as a fact but French will regard that as a fact too.
Why ? Because it's their mother tongue FFS. Your mother tongue will always be the most useful because you've learnt to speak it first and speak it 95% of the time.
Case you didn't realise : A lot of words and expressions in English come from foreign languages. It's the influence thing.
You are not to judge wether an other language (and culture) are better or worse than your own.
If fact, if we learnt a bit more from each other we might get along better don't you think ?
As for Arc :
I've been on several French chatboxes and sites (there are more than you think). Believe you me, the only babble you'll hear there is the English person who tries to understand it all.
How very presumptious of you all to think that you can tell others which language they should speak ...
The world is a lot bigger and varied than your local community.
Openmindedness has never harmed anyone
It was not directed at you Simonm. You should know better than that ;)
--- I didn't put any words in your mouth.
ur talking about the wrong words.
---No i don't know where you are from, but i can certainly tell it's not AMerica.
eeeh... wrong.
--- Ok i re-read all my posts... care to explain to me where i don't Understand something?
Uhm, either you have a serious understanding disorder, or you're lying and you didn't re read the posts.
Anyways, I think wally just summed it up.
Wally, if i go to France i expect people to look at me funny and treat me differently if i don;t speak French. I DO not expect them to cater to me.
Ever heard the saying "When in Rome do as the Romas do"?
WEll when in America Speak English!
Wally
I don't know what's going on here: Am I just expressing myself badly or are you failing to grasp what I'm saying?
When I say useful, I mean useful from the point of view of someone who travels all over the world (outside of their home country). Ofcourse French is the most useful langauge in France. I'm not diputing that.Quote:
Simonm, you may regard is as a fact but French will regard that as a fact too.
Why ? Because it's their mother tongue FFS. Your mother tongue will always be the most useful because you've learnt to speak it first and speak it 95% of the time.
I did realise that and it's true for all languages.Quote:
Case you didn't realise : A lot of words and expressions in English come from foreign languages. It's the influence thing.
I most certainly did not make any such judgement. I am not saying that English is better than French, just more useful in a global sense. That's not to say that's a good thing.Quote:
You are not to judge wether an other language (and culture) are better or worse than your own.
I agree wholeheartedly. What makes you think that I don't believe that? I started by saying that I intend to start learning French.Quote:
If fact, if we learnt a bit more from each other we might get along better don't you think ?
I am fascinated by all cultures around the world and do not believe that the English language (or culture) is superior to any other.
Hold your horses Simon ;)
Not all comments are directed at you (should've made it clearer)
As for the usefullness : I would expect that in South America Portuguese and Spanish are more usefull, in China chinese, in Japan Japanese, in Russia Russian and so forth.
If you state that people are more likely to understand English rather than French in say Russia, then I agree, then English is more useful but Russian will be more useful.
The point is : you can't go around the world and expect anyone you meet to understand English. Language is part of the culture and if you're about to absorb the culture then you at least try to understand the language.
I'm not having a go at you because at heart you make the right statements. Perhaps we are on different channels here.
And Arc:
I'm not even going into that one. You've just about missed every point I made. People have the right to preserve their culture and language, even in a different country.
If your government speaks English and decides that all official documents are in English. Too bad for those who don't understand. If an employer hires spanish-only speakers then that's his right. And if people want to "cater" for those who do not speak English, that's their right too.
If, however, official business needs to be conducted (whatever that may be) then it will be in the official language. If you don't understand it, too bad for you. You should've made arrangements then. Ever heard of discrimination on the basis of culture, language and origins ?
YOU are not qualified to be the judge. That's the whole point.
Besides, if they're illegal then your government has to deal with them.
Wally the only points you've "tried" to make are points that suggest i am wrong for expecting People to speak English when in America.
Ok, well let me heard 50 Million mexicans into your country and then you to learn Spanish, see how you like it.
FYI I know Spanish, I don't need Mexicans for that.
They don't expect you to learn it and nor should you.
If officially English is THE language then those who refuse to learn it will have problems understanding regulations.
Openmindedness ...
And I wouldn't mind, as long as my native language remains one of the official languages (and I see no indication why English will be scratched as official language)
I've had enough of the tunnel vision comments and doomsday predictions. I'm not getting through to you in any way and quite frankly I'm not bothering anymore.
You wonder why the world has so many problems ? Take a good long hard look at your attitude ...
heh, Arc, I can imagine you over here on your annual European vaction, yelling at some Italian bloke that you want a burger and fries. The louder you shout, the better he'll understand, right?
It's agreat idea though, we scrap all the languages and culture that make countries unique and interesting, (because the internet rulez), and everyone will be drinking Starbucks, eating Wendys, and ****ing cheerleaders in 2 years time :) Love it :D
Gaffer
You've just described my idea of paradise....NOT!Quote:
It's agreat idea though, we scrap all the languages and culture that make countries unique and interesting, (because the internet rulez), and everyone will be drinking Starbucks, eating Wendys, and ****ing cheerleaders in 2 years time Love it
OK let's get off the Speaking English thing and talk about Cultures.
What really makes a Culture Unique?? Don't know? Well it;s thier food ofcourse. Other than food most cultures are exactly alike, except with a different language.
Now we all know that America has alsmost any kind of food you could imagine. Chineese,Mexican,italian,American aka Chesseburgers, Austrailian, hell you name it we have a resturant that provides it on every corner of every city.
So, what AMerica really is, is Every country in the world mixed into one. And we all get along(for the most part). So why can't you all just get with it and Become Mini Americas?
I could see if we were Russia or something, nobody wants to be taken over by a Socialist/Communist dictator, but what is wrong with every country being exactly like America?
We are the greatest country in the world, afterall. AND there would be a heck of alot less people blowing eachother up over nothing.
Ah, but you see, you ****ed it up there.... If you wanted to do a serious wind up, you should have omitted that sentence. You blew it. You bored me.Quote:
We are the greatest country in the world, afterall.
sarcasm right ?
You mean all of us have to be Americans ? Puts a whole different view on your Foreign Politics.
No thank you, I'll stick to my own culture, language and heritage. I'm quite fond of it.
The deal is not favorable to me so I respectfully decline.
Hope you don't mind :rolleyes:
Sorry Gaffer, i know it hurts, but it's the truth...
heh, and I'm pretty easy to get fired up too :) Naw mate, you blew it.
That post is so lame it should be shot, cut up, and shaped into nice BK Chargriled Whappers...
You're just mad cause we sent you packin a couple hundred years ago :D
Not mad at all. Just trying to confirm my suspicions that your comments are a wind up.... give me time...
anyway, you don't know where I come from....
I guess Location "London" is a lie? heh
BTW i wasn;t here the day the teacher discussed Wind -up. Please explain?
Arc, when's the last time you saw a kebab? A proper kebab shop kebab. One that comes in a pitta bread with salad and sauce.
I suppose you have restaurants that sell grubs and scorpions and spiders on every corner too huh?
Nope, mum & dad taught me about "aeroplanes" and "working in different countries" at a faily early age. I live in London, but am not English (London is the capital city of England)Quote:
Originally posted by Arc
I guess Location "London" is a lie? heh
BTW i wasn;t here the day the teacher discussed Wind -up. Please explain?
Wind-up means baiting people into a heated arguments by saying controversial statements that they don't necessarily believe in.
'Location' is not where you are from, it is where you are.Quote:
Originally posted by Arc
I guess Location "London" is a lie? heh
I hope anyway.
Never heard of a place called Brämblê Urgh but then again I haven't been in the Himalayas or Australia lately.
Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Arc, when's the last time you saw a kebab? A proper kebab shop kebab. One that comes in a pitta bread with salad and sauce.
I suppose you have restaurants that sell grubs and scorpions and spiders on every corner too huh?
Well maybe not on every corner, but if you wanted that crap you could get it from somewhere.
Besides the only reason anyone eats that nasty crap is becasue they can't get anything better. If every country was like America they wouldn't have to eat grubs and scorpions.
AS far Kebabs go? heck i cook out on the grill every weekened in the summer, i could make Kebabs ifen i wanted too. I prefer Ribeye steaks myself :D
Ignorance at its greatest...Quote:
What really makes a Culture Unique?? Don't know? Well it;s thier food ofcourse. Other than food most cultures are exactly alike, except with a different language.
Dude, kebabs are good. And it's not food that makes a culture unique. It's if they don't hate me personally that makes them unique.Quote:
Originally posted by Arc
Besides the only reason anyone eats that nasty crap is becasue they can't get anything better. If every country was like America they wouldn't have to eat grubs and scorpions.
ROTFLMAO!
Arc, you're priceless. :)
Give it a little while until the other Americans wake up, and they'll probably jump all over you for being a eejit and giving them a bad name.
What? But Arcs RIGHT! We ARE the greatest country in the world!Quote:
Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan
Give it a little while until the other Americans wake up, and they'll probably jump all over you for being a eejit and giving them a bad name.
;)
Your a funny guy!!!!!
/suddenly Joe Pesci jumps up and smashes Lou with butt of gun....
*ahem, :D