Printable View
You seem to be more or less on your own, Kovan, in your opinion that people need to be religious to have morals.
Don't you think it's possible that the universe has always existed and will always exist? Does there really have to be a beginning and an end? It would be good if you could seperate your own philosophical thoughts from what your religion tells you on this.
The concept that the universe was always here with no beginning is hard to grasp. I think it makes more sense to say that the universe did have an absolute beginning (perhaps at the big bang) and that it was created by a being of some sort (This would be God). If time only exists within the confines of this universe, then it can easily be said that this being would have no beginning and no end, since he would've created time itself.
How funny..people sometimes question how could anything in the universe exist without a God.
If everything needs to be created then who created the God ?
Why don't we worship that thing ?
Quote:
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Quote:
Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
if a thing created god, then a thing created that thing, and another created the other thing which leads to an endless thing :)Quote:
Originally posted by thinktank
How funny..people sometimes question how could anything in the universe exist without a God.
If everything needs to be created then who created the God ?
Why don't we worship that thing ?
God is our final destination
choose to accept it, cool
choose not to accept it, still upto you
i stop at God, and i say "God, you da greatest"
:)
Redth, your using a "corrupt" scriputure to state something,
i think it would be in everyones interest if you didnt quote from the bible
Do you believe in unicorns? True, I have not seen one, so that is no proof that they do not exist. But, you see, no one has seen one.Quote:
Originally posted by Redth
well, to address everyone who is saying.. "prove this god"... well, i think kovan did a good job of summing it up... you ask us to prove god... we ask you to disprove him....
[list=1][*]Having the power to do something does not mean you have the right to do it.[*]I shall one day make children. I can never punish them for not loving me, I can only love them, protect them, and hope they love me.[*]Until he pays me the respect I deserve and imparts this plan, I have no choice but go my own way.[/list=1]Quote:
now, to address the point.. why would god make us??? well... i must admit, to a point, yes i believe god is a bit vain, and selfish... well, i do believe there are other reasons to our creation besides self worship, but i can agree with you that god is a selfish god (to a point).... i can't back this up with any scripture, but im sure i've read in the bible on several occasions affirming this....
but, why shouldn't he be selfish??? if he MADE you, he owns you... he brought you to this world.... he didn't have to ... he brought you here with a plan...
Further... if the divine has concern for my soles, he shouldn't for I do wear shoes.
Perhaps Satan can make us a better offer than God can? Does anyone know what sort of package Satan is offering people (for their souls) these days?
I bet, in this materialistic day and age, it'd have to be good!
Capitalism for instance
Who said there is something in the first place?Quote:
How funny..people sometimes question how could anything in the universe exist without a God.
If everything needs to be created then who created the God ?
Why don't we worship that thing ?
You are no better than the others.
Existance is your private definitionQuote:
You seem to be more or less on your own, Kovan, in your opinion that people need to be religious to have morals.
Don't you think it's possible that the universe has always existed and will always exist? Does there really have to be a beginning and an end? It would be good if you could seperate your own philosophical thoughts from what your religion tells you on this.
Hello again you guys!
Today's God quotation is:
Yes, as I read it, God offers for FREE eternal Life in Jesus Christ!Quote:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Awesome!!!:D
Tell that to the bus driver that runs you over!! :DQuote:
Originally posted by kedaman
Existance is your private definition
not eternal earthly life. that's not what God's talking about there.
what he means is what's more important. we all have to die an earthly death, but our earthly life is unimportant anyway, other than to evengalize. the important part is Eternal Spiritual life, which is what god offers us for believing and relying on him.
by Ciberthug:
he brings up an interesting point. If you had hampsters or mice as pets, even though you have the ability to kill them, it would not be the right thing to do. if those hampsters had the ability to oppose you and kill otehr hampsters, why would you continue to support them, unless they gave true repentance? you would value the ones that agreed with you and did as you wished, and you would treat the others as lost. a loving god would feel sorrow that any had left, and would give them the chance to come back and gain their reward. an unloving god would kill them. now, even the loving god would not invite them back to incite trouble, he would have no choice but to let them go their way.Quote:
Having the power to do something does not mean you have the right to do it.
god does not Take heaven away from us if we misbehave, he takes Hell away from us if we repent. as a race, we all die. we all deserve to die. god gives us the opportunity to live, because he hates to see us die.
private, j00 sux0r! :D I'm immortalQuote:
Originally posted by beachbum
Tell that to the bus driver that runs you over!! :D
http://www.lachnu.nl/grog/cgi-bin/fe...ode=1005600544
What's wrong with dying now all of a sudden? It must be the most pleasant thing ever! Think about it, every time you wake up in the morning of the alarm clock at 6:00am you think "noo! not again, If i just could sleep a bit more" Sometimes you even sleep a bit more, but then you get even more pi$$sed at yourself when you wake up and have missed important events. Now if just could sleep all the time you want, even loosing the concept of time, wouldn't that be heaven?!?!Quote:
Originally posted by bobjustbob
god does not Take heaven away from us if we misbehave, he takes Hell away from us if we repent. as a race, we all die. we all deserve to die. god gives us the opportunity to live, because he hates to see us die. [/B]
yes, and with an agnostic view, that's what you would believe would happen when you die. unfortunately, at least as far as my belief goes, that's not the worst of it.
nonsense! I'm not sceptic, but rather an intrumentalist, so I don't give a s**t about truth.
i guess, really, i don't care about truth either. i can't prove it, so why would i care whether it's true or not? but i have to take a guess. when you're walking down the street and you step up onto what you percieve as a curb, there's no way to prove that the curb is really there, for all you Know you could fall into an endless hole, or whatever. but you have to operate on that assumption (that there Is a curb there) or you'll never get anywhere.
Okay have your guess, I would do the same, because after all i'm aware of that curb
those who tell themselves that they Know, and that they do not guess, decieve themselves.
i am not a fanatic Christian. i do not argue soft facts with other soft facts.
i am not an ignorant Christian. i do not start debates i cannot compete in.
i am not a stupid Christian. i can compete in most arguments.
Well, to me you are an instrumentalist as well, not a Christian :)
But this is just a new assumption, and our terminologies don't match :p
here is an email I received today...
It expresses God's love for us!
Who would you die for? Would you die for a stranger or for a wicked person? Would you die for someone who has hurt others? It is hard to think of someone dying for a righteous person, let alone for a sinner, as you once were. But that is what Jesus did.
This is how I showed My love for you. While you were still a sinner, My Son Jesus died for you. I sent My one and only Son into the world that you might live through Him. This is love. I did not wait for you to love Me. I loved you first and sent My Son as an atoning sacrifice for your sins.
Jesus Christ redeemed you from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for you. I made Him who had no sin to be sin for you, so that in Him you might become the righteousness of God.
He Himself bore your sins in His body on the tree, so that you might die to sin and live for righteousness. Your healing is a result of His wounds.
So in Him you have redemption through His blood and the forgiveness of your sins, in accordance with the riches of My grace that I lavished on you.
Never forget what My Son did for you. He defines love. Because of Him, you are My child.
One that you seemed to have missed.Quote:
Originally posted by bobjustbob
he [CiberTHuG] brings up an interesting point.
I'm not refering to divine judgement. I'm talking about creation in the first place. Just because the divinity has the power to create man, doesn't mean he is justified in doing so.
He created us in his own imagine. As a result, we continue to have the vanity and greed that he demonstrated at the moment of our creation.
This shows your lack of knowledge for the character of God.Quote:
Originally posted by CiberTHuG
...
He created us in his own imagine. As a result, we continue to have the vanity and greed that he demonstrated at the moment of our creation.
God is love and He is not vain. YOU may think it is vain but it is not.
WE are the ones that think of God in wrong ways. God is always just in what He does. He never does an unjust thing. He always takes care of the poor, widows and the sick. Heck, He even sent Jesus to die for us , those who spit in His face all day long, and HE STILL loves us!
:eek:
Hey, you've got God's email address. Culd you send it on to me, I've been meaning to ask him a few things :DQuote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
here is an email I received today...
It expresses God's love for us!
Who would you die for? Would you die for a stranger or for a wicked person? Would you die for someone who has hurt others? It is hard to think of someone dying for a righteous person, let alone for a sinner, as you once were. But that is what Jesus did.
Also, I couldn't help but notice that I used to be a sinner, and now I'm not. That was awfully good of him ;)
SD
You're just stating your opinion here. Who has the wisdom to say what the character of God is? You seem to have made up your mind about it. You act as if you have all the facts.Quote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
This shows your lack of knowledge for the character of God.
God is love and He is not vain. YOU may think it is vain but it is not.
I think this shows your lack of understanding of your own beliefs.
As humans we are fallible. If you ever start to think you know something absolutely, you are probably wrong. Your beliefs are opinions, not facts. The character of God is not something I would consider you qualified to evaluate.
Jesus4u
That is a pretty meaningless statement if you think about it.Quote:
God is always just in what He does.
If God himself defines justice, anything he does will therefore be just. He is not even bound to keep the same rules of justice the same. He changes them over time; hence the OLD and NEW testamants.
Well how can he? What ever he does will become just because it is him doing it.Quote:
He never does an unjust thing.
If he decides to flood the earth and kill mankind, it must be just because God defines justice to be anything he wants it to be.
How do you define "taking care"? He takes care of them by letting them suffer and die. Yeah, great!Quote:
He always takes care of the poor, widows and the sick.
READ MY POSTS! I have pointed out time and again how your fictional god has acted out of pure vain greed. If you want to address any of these points, feel free. But spewing propaganda accomplishes nothing. Just because you think he is all wonderful (and real) doesn't mean he is (either).Quote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
This shows your lack of knowledge for the character of God.
And, in case you can't scroll back... I've snipped this little part.
So, what reason does your god give for creating man?Quote:
There is no perceivable reason, so I have to wonder why a god would make a man without good reason. Which inturn makes me think that perhaps there really isn't a god.
But if there is, the only reason revealed to us (and thus the only reason that is a basis for worshipping him) is to love him. He made man in his own image so that we may know him. That is conceit and vanity. He didn't make us to do the right thing (to fight evil), he didn't make us so he could take joy in watching us grow (as a parent would), he didn't make us so he could share the universe with him (as a parent would), and he didn't make us so we would outlive him (as any life strives to do). He made us for the sole purpose of laying down at his feet and worshipping.
I could be wrong, but no one has put forth any plausible cause.
:D Ciber u are the true voice of the people!! j4u has nothing intelligent to say... he proves over and over that he is a sheep with a herd like mentality.
Were I the judge at ur trial for murder I would excuse the jury and staff, have a beer or two and a laugh about it and then sneak u out the back door!!
"You're mocking me, aren't you?"
If you are serious, well, thanks for the flattery. I may not be right, but atleast someone's sees that I'm making an attempt. Now, I wonder if we can have J4U banned from CC.
Oh, extra credit if you can place that movie quote.
why should I be banned?
I stand for what I believe in.
I believe it is you who should be banned. Making DEATH threats and all.
Jesus4u
I don't think you should be banned, merely boycotted! ;)Quote:
why should I be banned?
I stand for what I believe in.
You don't stand up for what you believe in, however. You say you always try to respond to peoples questions but I see precious little evidence of that.
The last biblical quotation you made has been met (as usual) by several responses and you ignored all of them. Indeed, it is only a statement suggesting that you should be banned that get's a response from you.
Normally, you just make your quotation and keep quiet until you have your next quote ready. You preach at us (and I say "preach" and not "discuss" because you only engage in a oneway conversation) and then fail to understand why people get infuriated at the way you conduct yourself.
If you truly want to stand up for what you believe in, fine, engage us. But don't just throw a quote at us and then run away and hide until you've got something else to throw at us.
You are only suceeding in portraying both your religion and yourself in a bad light.
but you know what? I HAVE fully answered questions posed to me. I apologize if I can not answer them all. We all have jobs to do don't we?
Sleep's a religion....one of deep meditation.... actually, this thread is liable to make beleivers in sleep out of us all...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz see !
thus endeth the n'th lesson by Reverend LoveJoy-Flanders III....
and we are so gratefull, we really are.... honest...zzzzzz oops apnoea I nearly died of sheer boredom...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Well, I'll re-post one of my unanswered questions for the umpteenth time.
What about the dinosaurs?
Do you believe they existed or not?
According to you the bible is infallible.
Which makes the world 6-8 thousand years old.
Ice core samples from the north pole where there has been a steay winter/summer cycle can be traced back 20,000 years. Carbon dating (despite claims that it is innacurate) can prove that the dinosaurs are more than 20,000 years old as they do not match any of the Carbon decay rates in the ice core samples.
Therefore they must be older than the earth. (Not to mention th efact that the dinosaurs are not really mentioned in the bible). If you had creatures as big as houses running around eating everything in sight I think it would have warranted more than a couple of obscure quotes.
SD
Yes, we do. But I think you are making excuses because you haven't the ability to defend yourself.Quote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
but you know what? I HAVE fully answered questions posed to me. I apologize if I can not answer them all. We all have jobs to do don't we?
Now, I don't ever want to see you post again unless you are responding to the queue of rebutles we've posted. If you have time to post, then you have time to answer.
Jesus4u
You're having some sort of joke here? You don't answer jack s**t. You really must be living in a dream world if you really believe that you've attempted to answer even five percent of the questions posed to you.Quote:
I HAVE fully answered questions posed to me. I apologize if I can not answer them all.
It's funny how you don't find time to respond to people's questions but you do find time to dig out yet another quote. :rolleyes:
it's sad! You guys are truly sad :(
J4U, you are such an idiot. And I don't guess I can be surprised by the fact that you live in your little dream world, believing in your little fairy tale gods, thinking that he can do no wrong and that you are right and safe and happy.
You are in a severe form of denial, one that manifests itself in this ongoing delusion.
All that aside, I'm with Simon. I'm going to see if I can find the ignore feature. Redth, or anyone body smart enough to read, feel free to defend this vain divinity.
J4U, one day you will learn that it was man who created god in his own image. God is like Santa Clause, they both exist if you pretend they do.