Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

The have a temporary license, expect only one that only USA have given a license recently. We talked about that 100 times.
Have the next doses then, your body. I don't want to do it, my body.
Ah yes. Flue floubiti flouxer!

The vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread. So stop be poorly researched. It makes you complicit and irresponsible for giving this ill informed material more attention.

Media government biased articles.
https://apnews.com/article/science-h...5ca012b5ef84d1
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...d-delta-easily
https://www.rollcall.com/2021/07/30/...read-covid-19/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/h...ted-delta.html
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...pread-covid-19

So again tell me a reason that I should vax.

I think I have undergone that circle again and again. I will just ignore vaxbies going at it again . The long article was just what my thoughts where. They may have been wrong or right but you don't choose to answer on things I may be wrong,( for example do the initial fully panic admission to hospital help spread the flue or it saved people?) but you choose to attack on the thing that suit you. I believe that at least you 2 are negative biased on everything I should say so I will ignore attacks on the usual subjects. If you have anything constructive to say other than find specific parts only then please write them, else you are getting repetitive and boring.

On that note and since we have covered most of the parameters I will only write new developments. For example when the 4th dose comes out or new mutations, government freedoms etc.
The other stuff are covered in full and from what I can see it's just me, Shaggy and dilettante on the more calm talks and you 2 on the more hyped.I think people have long taken their decisions so only new stuff may be constructive for them.
So from now on that will be the situation for me. I'm going to the sea now without a mask vaccine or a plastic suit to spread the flue to squids.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

It is hard to know where the trolling ends and the lack of personal responsibility begins.

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Wow...talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

https://apnews.com/article/science-h...5ca012b5ef84d1

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That one states that we should get more people vaccinated. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from passing on the virus...just greatly reduces your chance of getting sick from it.

Quote:

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https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...d-delta-easily

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Same thing, only more so.

Quote:

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https://www.rollcall.com/2021/07/30/...read-covid-19/

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Same thing, repeated.

Quote:

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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/h...ted-delta.html

---

Same thing, only less so.

Quote:

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https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...pread-covid-19

---

Also the same thing.

Quote:

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So again tell me a reason that I should vax.

---

Because every single link you just posted says that you should. They ALL say that those who are vaccinated can cause you to become sick, but they mostly will not get sick. So yes, those very links say that you should...and if you want to make it personal, I rather wish you would, as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

That one states that we should get more people vaccinated. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from passing on the virus...just greatly reduces your chance of getting sick from it.

---

I'm pretty sure it is far more nuanced than that.

Being vaccinated is meant to help your body be more prepared to fight the infection. Fighting the infection means limiting its reproduction within you. Less virus to spew back out, less chance and less impact of infecting others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

Being vaccinated is meant to help your body be more prepared to fight the infection.

---

Right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

Fighting the infection means limiting its reproduction within you.

---

Also right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

Less virus to spew back out, ...

---

Even tat is right - but one might want to think about, what is now "spewed back out"...

It is: "The best mutations, which were able to survive under the given vaccination-restraints".

Highly resistant, "filtered" specimen is, what's potentially "spewed back out".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

...less chance and less impact of infecting others.

---

This would also be true - but only when (IMO):
- hard "isolation-rules" would apply
- especially for the vaccinated
- meaning strict isolation between "shot 1 and shot 2"
- followed by a 2-3 weeks strict isolation after "shot 2"

That's to prevent an outright "breeding" of these higher resistant specimen (among the vaccinated) -
because the whole "vaccination-programm" is currently (and incomprehensibly) "staggered over 3-6 month" -
due to "logistic-reasons" (instead of demanding a strict "shot 1 week", followed by a "shot 2 week", after building up enough supplies).

Now, thats sadly not how the whole stuff played out - what happened instead in most countries is,
that vaccinated people got back their "rights to mingle unrestricted".

And although it is (for the most part) ensured, that this "mingling" happens "only among vaccinated people" -
exactly that (paired with the staggered vaccination-procedure over longer timeframes) is (IMO)
the perfect "breeding ground", which is responsible for the "D", "E", "whatever" - variants we see,
and what allows this kind of virus to become endemic.

Just my $0.02

Olaf

I'm personally against vaccine mandates for body autonomy reasons but my own body autonomy screamed at me to go and get the ruddy vaccine. The data's there and it's irrefutable. To ignore it requires an act of will that's likely to be harmful to yourself and others.

Quote:

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Highly resistant, "filtered" specimen is, what's potentially "spewed back out".

---

True but I don't think the probability that an escape variant evolved increased. I think it simply eliminated most of the non-escape capability. I don't think I'm articulating this very well but, in essence, what is spewed out is more concentrated in it's toxicity but the total volume spewed out is greatly diminished. I believe the total spewed toxicity is overall reduced.

As for whether we've allowed too much mingling - I'm probably pretty close to you on that. We've been overly optimistic all the way through on this thing.

Shaggy I was replying on them saying that if you vaccinate you don't pass covid around.
That is completely false.
I wasn't replying on if I get sick or not and that "battle" is over as what was to be said was said before, so I wouldn't have respond but I do that out of courtesy to you . I don't want to make it personal as, as I've said I prolly cannot vaccinate even if the vax is pure rainbow due to an issue in the past.
Funky if you got the big covid "A" then Delta is just a playground and as I'm getting used that having said that the usual people will come at me with nonsense claims, go see your doctor and ask him if your natural immunity gives you a reason to vaccinate at all. Can you do than and not put experimental things in your? Don't listen to me or anyone else here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

Shaggy I was replying on them saying that if you vaccinate you don't pass covid around.
That is completely false.

---

Yeah, I agree with you there. If you are vaccinated, you can still be a vector, and there is some slight potential that you are a BETTER vector for a variety of reasons, some of which were covered in the last few posts.

Quote:

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as I've said I prolly cannot vaccinate even if the vax is pure rainbow due to an issue in the past.

---

Ah, hadn't caught that. We have a few people in that boat. Haven't seen them, though. This area is on the edge of declaring a medical emergency. Some parts of the state are already there. That's when they don't have the resources to treat the number of cases they have, so they are in triage conditions. We may be there this week, we'll see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Yeah, I agree with you there. If you are vaccinated, you can still be a vector, and there is some slight potential that you are a BETTER vector for a variety of reasons, some of which were covered in the last few posts.



Ah, hadn't caught that. We have a few people in that boat. Haven't seen them, though. This area is on the edge of declaring a medical emergency. Some parts of the state are already there. That's when they don't have the resources to treat the number of cases they have, so they are in triage conditions. We may be there this week, we'll see.

---

Parts of Kentucky are in serious CPU shortages. I've read of cases where the person reacted badly to the first shot and is recommended not to get a second. That would s**k.

CPU shortages? How did we bring this back around to computers?

So far the most infectious variants have been the U.K.'s "Alpha" and India's "Delta" which both arose before those parts of the world had any significant levels of vaccination.

Disease recovery also leaves one able to pick up, incubate, and become a disease vector. Probably just as much as being vaccinated does. This is pretty much what "endemic" is all about because neither ensures anything close to sterilizing immunity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

CPU shortages? How did we bring this back around to computers?

---

I should stay off Chit Chat when I'm working :o

At least a request of not vaccinating your children.
"For boys with no underlying health conditions, the chance of
either CAE, or hospitalization for CAE, after their second dose of mRNA vaccination are
considerably higher than their 120-day risk of COVID-19 hospitalization, even at times of peak
disease prevalence"
" Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine to be 162.2 cases per million for healthy boys aged 12 to 15 and 94 cases per million for healthy boys aged 16 to 17. "

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...866v1.full.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...suggests-study

That's an interesting point. The counter weight to that would be the incidence of MIS-C and other issues with COVID in children:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...s-and-children

However, the bigger question is probably them being able to pass it to others.

In continuation of don't vax kids:
Giulia, 16-year-old student, died sixteen hours after the second Pzifer dose.

https://twitter.com/RadioSavana/stat...eb5cf84ceac%2F

So...twitter is a source now?

What did she die from?

There are a couple of posters here that would have been kicked off Facebook and the like by now for what they get away with submitting here.

Meh.

https://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/mod...rali-1.6797778
https://necrologie.gazzettadimodena....it/news/129465
https://www.lapressa.it/notiziario/l...opo-il-vaccino
https://it.notizie.yahoo.com/giulia-...082646259.html

Are thy happy now the other than Shaggy person that want me to get kicked out? I'm I safe? I'm really hanging from his lips.

Hanging from your lips??? That's a novel way to go about it.

Lol.
But this is an expression you use in the states right? I wouldn't want to go about and say that on Facebook and they misinterpret and kick me out.
If I had a facebook account.

Never heard the phrase "hanging by my lips". But I've led a sheltered life.

I just assumed it was a surfer thing.

It's a daily phrase in Greece.
I though it was used in US but from your replies probably doesn't . But it must be used in some English terrains as it googles up OK.
Surfer thing? :D

Yeah, I've never heard that before.

Well...You learn something new every day. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

I just assumed it was a surfer thing.

---

I've heard of "Hanging 10" but not "hanging by my lips" .... sounds painful. There are those "artists" though that hang themselves by needles through their nipples and other parts of their bodies.... *shudder*


-tg

That reminds me of an old movie:

https://youtu.be/5H0dKc9QG9E

Dude gets hung by his nipples in a ritual there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

Meh.

https://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/mod...rali-1.6797778
https://necrologie.gazzettadimodena....it/news/129465
https://www.lapressa.it/notiziario/l...opo-il-vaccino
https://it.notizie.yahoo.com/giulia-...082646259.html

Are thy happy now the other than Shaggy person that want me to get kicked out? I'm I safe? I'm really hanging from his lips.

---

I didn't address that to anyone in particular...funny you assumed it was you. That tells me you know what you are doing and also know it is wrong.

Oh,yeah we forgot about you...
Right. On the same thread on the same page on the same subject.
Are you taking us for fools or just just trying to look naive?
So my post did also not address to anyone in particular as you can see because I'm way ahead of you and knew exactly what you will write back.

Anyhow, have you heard the hanging from his lips expressions?

"We", "Us"? Since when did you start speaking for the forum? I'm pretty sure you and your "flue" beliefs are in the minority. Or are you "Are you taking us for fools or just just trying to look naïve"

Come on, you where caught red handed so let's drop it as it's pointless.
Let's not go Niya on the thread kay? :wave:
I'm going for a swim..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sapator

Come on, you where caught red handed so let's drop it as it's pointless.
Let's not go Niya on the thread kay? :wave:
I'm going for a swim..

---

Actually you busted yourself responding to a post not addressed to you out of guilt. Now you want me to accept responsibility for your post.

Our rules don't cover miss-information (unless you were to class it as trolling) so Sappy (and anyone else) is safe on that front. Besides, it's not like the information's going unchallenged:rolleyes:.

As for hanging by your lips - I guess that could happen if you tried to snog a ski lift. Of course, that would beg the question of why you would want to snog a ski lift but we're not here to judge as long as the ski lift gives it's consent.

Ohh that good ol' narrow English language :D
Metaphor, it's called metaphor and we are known to use it from the beginning of time but apparently some terms are completely of, even if they are shown as valid on search engines. Well, I hope they come out more as entertaining than confusing.

P..S Actually I'm not 100% sure it's a metaphor of it falls into a wider "figure of speech" range.Hmm...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

Anyhow, have you heard the hanging from his lips expressions?

---

You sure, you don't mean "on" instead of "from"?
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/hang+on+his+lips

Olaf

It would be valid if we wanted to "Englishize" it. But it's "from" , or at an alternation "by" but not "on".

https://translate.google.com/?sl=el&...5&op=translate

Using "on" will do the opposite effect and make it non meaningful in Greek.

I guess we are caught in a trans continental expression sphere.Creeeepyyyyy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

Let's not go Niya on the thread kay? :wave:

---

I wasn't even here :ehh:

Lol.
It was with the best intentions, since you went berserk on the VB6 thread I though it was a good example of locking a thread after repetitive "fight" . :bigyello:

The question is how the heck did you notice that little example? Hmm? :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

The question is how the heck did you notice that little example? Hmm? :p

---

https://www.vbforums.com/images/ieimages/2021/09/6.jpg

To bad you where not subscribed from the beginning.
You would get in your email 81 pages notifications of nonsense. :D

No 3rd dose needed for now according to study with a few exceptions.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...046-8/fulltext
https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...d-jab-booster/

Also
LOL
https://twitter.com/YoAdrian101/stat...f87ceb5cf84%2F

Edit I have no link but just saw on the news that Moderna said that the vaccine wears heavily off over time. They do that to get you to do the third dose. Money money money. Since I have no link I don't applause to that yet, so, yenom yenom yenom.

From what I'm hearing the Jury's still out on the third (booster) shot. They think it's likely to be beneficial but it's as yet unproven and, if it is beneficial, they don't really know how much. Under those circumstances, hedging your bets by getting a booster seems a sensible course of action.

Mind you, my personal gut feeling is that we'd likely do a lot better shipping those shots out to poorer countries which haven't been able to get enough shots yet. Failure to do that just risks incubating another escape variant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

From what I'm hearing the Jury's still out on the third (booster) shot. They think it's likely to be beneficial but it's as yet unproven and, if it is beneficial, they don't really know how much. Under those circumstances, hedging your bets by getting a booster seems a sensible course of action.

Mind you, my personal gut feeling is that we'd likely do a lot better shipping those shots out to poorer countries which haven't been able to get enough shots yet. Failure to do that just risks incubating another escape variant.

---

Greece might be a good start :p

No thanks. We still have 10-15 million surplus doses from the previous fiasco.
I think that the dictator is already pushing those that will soon expire to other nearby countries. That is unethical but I guess that is not a word in their vocabulary, although it's a Greek word, comes from ithos (ethos) .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sapator

No thanks. We still have 10-15 million surplus doses from the previous fiasco.
I think that the dictator is already pushing those that will soon expire to other nearby countries. That is unethical but I guess that is not a word in their vocabulary, although it's a Greek word, comes from ithos (ethos) .

---

The word "ethics" is derived from the Greek word ethos (character), and from the Latin word mores (customs). Together, they combine to define how individuals choose to interact with one another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Mind you, my personal gut feeling is that we'd likely do a lot better shipping those shots out to poorer countries which haven't been able to get enough shots yet. Failure to do that just risks incubating another escape variant.

---

On the surface that might seem to make some sense... until you realize that it doesn't.

One of the first nasty mutants arose in the U.K., and most of the spread of Delta globally came through the U.K.

Denying 3rd doses to Americans to give them away to the 3rd world just screams globalism. Those days are over.

I'd be all for declaring costs have been recaptured already though, and both lowering the price closer to real production and packaging costs and ramping up production so there are more doses to go around. There is no reason to punish people in poorer countries, and we've already compensated Big Pharma for development costs. I don't see why we should keep spending tax dollars to reward them just to make it available elsewhere - which is what you have suggested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapator

To bad you where not subscribed from the beginning.
You would get in your email 81 pages notifications of nonsense. :D

---

lol....;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

I'd be all for declaring costs have been recaptured already though, and both lowering the price closer to real production and packaging costs and ramping up production so there are more doses to go around. There is no reason to punish people in poorer countries, and we've already compensated Big Pharma for development costs. I don't see why we should keep spending tax dollars to reward them just to make it available elsewhere - which is what you have suggested.

---

We're going to, one way or another. The cost per dose is far higher in the US as opposed to developing countries. Therefore, they would be much happier selling third doses to Americans than selling to the developing world.

Still, globalization is not dead, as the virus has shown: A bad idea can spread around the world at record speed. Good ideas are slower.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TysonLPrice

The word "ethics" is derived from the Greek word ethos (character), and from the Latin word mores (customs). Together, they combine to define how individuals choose to interact with one another.

---

That's a little off. First there is no latin, if you talk about mores, that is somewhat different and only apply to customs that is a portion of what ethic is.

The work comes from ethos that means ordinary residence place,habit,character and custom.
So the word ethic-y is mentioned in the place where there man exists and in extent it's relationship with other human, god and it's esoteric character.
Ethic started becoming a subject of philosophical thought in the age of Socrates. At that time philosophy was trying to give meaning in nature, among the main subjects of Greek philosophers was virtue,just,common law and covi...errr bliss .Socrates however turned the philosophical thought of that age in maters that concerned man and society and was the fist philosopher doing so.

SH,

Looks like Idaho is being hit really hard. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...surge-rcna1997

Is this a fair assessment???

You could use the animated state-by-state history map here:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map

It also offers a 14-day forecast.


The figures seem to match other sources much better than the CDC's published numbers, for whatever reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

SH,

Looks like Idaho is being hit really hard. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...surge-rcna1997

Is this a fair assessment???

---

Yeah, it's fair. That's just who we are.

I was watching Fox news a bit this morning. They are calling them "obedience masks" now :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice

I was watching Fox news....

---

:sick:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niya

:sick:

---

Substitute Fox for Howard Stern and you'll know why. This is from the movie about him.


Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes a day. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Kenny: How could this be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given: "I want to see what he'll say next."
Kenny: : All right, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Kenny: : But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher: Most common answer: "I want to see what he'll say next."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TysonLPrice

Substitute Fox for Howard Stern and you'll know why. This is from the movie about him.


Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes a day. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Kenny: How could this be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given: "I want to see what he'll say next."
Kenny: : All right, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Kenny: : But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher: Most common answer: "I want to see what he'll say next."

---

Hahaha :D

Quote:

---

One of the first nasty mutants arose in the U.K.

---

I think you're referring to the Alpha strain and it was pre-vaccines.

Quote:

---

most of the spread of Delta globally came through the U.K.

---

I don't think that's quite correct. It originated in India and hit the UK because of our close historic ties to India - there was alot of travel back and forth between the two nations. I don't think I've seen anything that it incubated significantly further in the UK. Quite the opposite, in fact. Our Delta infection and transmission rates were fairly high but they have been much lower that, for example, the US, due to our better vaccination rates.

That misses the point, though. The objective isn't to prevent escape variants from spreading - once a variant has achieved escape capacity it is, by definition, too late. The objective is to prevent escape variants from evolving in the first place.

Quote:

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Denying 3rd doses to Americans to give them away to the 3rd world just screams globalism.

---

The pandemic's global. Your political preferences have already been removed from the equation.

It's not only death with vaccines but serious sideffects on young people.

Greece
Girl in coma after vaccine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INrgQF5vdfY
https://www.zougla.gr/greece/article...meta-to-pfizer

Boy cannot walk after the vaccine
https://www.makthes.gr/ekane-to-emvo...patisei-440969

Boy dead after vaccine on my root place Arcadia
https://www.protothema.gr/greece/art...mvoliasmo-tou/

These are 3 cases on one week. Should I keep posting cases every week? No because it's macabre.
So don't vaccinate young children.

And one I saw in US:
https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com...fizer-vaccine/

Funny google would not show any results so I had to go to other engines. :rolleyes:

I looked at the third link...for reasons that are weird, but basically came down to the fact that I didn't want to watch a video and missed the fact that the second link wasn't a video.

That ended up being translated (it's an amazing world we live in), and he made a telling point: If it was the vaccine, why aren't there other cases with similar symptoms? Millions of J&J jabs given and ONE results in this type of problem? At that point, there are actually more likely causes of the disease than the vaccine itself. For one thing, hospitals tend to have some pretty interesting bugs. Another could have been the jab itself. And there's a third, which the doctors suggested, as well, though it amounts to a medical shrug: It's psychological, not neurological.

Frankly, if you spend any time looking, you'll find that the human mind can produce some truly amazing results in the body. That's pretty well known, and relatively common when compared to the alternative proposed.

I have to wonder why should it always be an excuse and not an acceptance.
But I respect your opinion. I won't be posting more of these issues, I saw one just now but it makes me feel down and I don't want that.