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Me too... 2 am, here. I finally got to sleep at 5am yesterday, and I think I might be doing it again tonight. Sometimes I take a few Benadryl to knock me out, but then I sleep until noon...
Hey, werent you supposed to be drawing up a "screen shot" of ToW, as a concept? =).
And I dont know if Invitro is still around or not... I havent seen him in a looong time...
Z.
Tends to happen when the only way of contact is a message board :(
Oh well, we have (and always will have, I think :)) me, you, Jorj, and Psyvision. At least, that's what I hope!
And yes, I was supposed to, but I don't have a very long attention span :(
I might get around to doing it sometime, sooner or later. But before we do the final GUI. Long before.
Well, I think I'm going to go hit the sack. If you want to cure insomnia, put your alarm for 6 or so hours after you get to sleep. Then, when you wake up, you haven't had enough sleep and go to bed at the normal midnight :D
Besides, the best work is done during the morning. At least, it always is for me. :)
See you later!
I prefer late night to the morning... Its just me, and my code, and I can get some serious work done =).
Anyway, night, Ill post some more on Monday.
Z.
See you then :)
Its not really the lighting calculations I am worried about, it is storing a normal for every terrain vertex. Its just too much memory to use on something that no one will notice. If you like, I can try implement it for models, though, since they come with normals anyway. I was simply going to use ambient lighting on them, but If you want, I can add dynamic lighting, just not for the terrain.
Z.
Well, I think I have user permissions in DivDatabase all sorted out now, and working correctly.
Z.
Hi Guys,
Sas, I visited the crystalrain site. It looks nice. I think the color transition from the main page to say the knowledge base page works well. Going back to main page from KB really draws attention to the title...nice effects.
Could you answer some technical details about your game development? I am asking because I am really curious how the whole puzzle fits together. My son says the engine on the site he played used a C++ engine (downloaded to client pcs) but the actual game content was coded in Java (such as disappearing doors, etc.) ...not just scripting, but actual programming. So I have some vague ideas...
Is the engine in C++? Does the engine use DirectX/OpenGL? Is DivDatabase the database that stores all variable data for the game being played in multiplayer mode? or is it for logging into a game? What runs on the server...a database host of some sort? What runs on the client...a 3D engine I suppose along with the networking code? Does the program read in 3ds models or do you use .x or .obj files? Any VB or Java?
I have been feeding myself tidbits from tutorials and forums as I have been learning OpenGL and C++ with my Dev-C++ IDE. I can make things spin around at my command (keyboard)...still makes me sick to look more than a few minutes ;-) Manipulating arrays and databases sure sound safe for me.
Regarding the website Sas, did you create the ASPs are are they standard stuff...the layout looks nice without being cluttered.
Well if you need a test jockey..let me know. I am certain my son (the 7 year-old) and I can play war on the computer. He's naturally aggressive and smart...plus he can tell me what he sees since I can't look at the 3D screen too long. ;-)
I seem to have noticed a lot more activity here in the past several weeks...is that an illusion or are you guys getting all psyched up because you are getting close?
Regards,
ChuckB
Well, I got a real PC back, which has really boosted my own productivity, but I think that things are really starting to shape up. We are still a ways off, but getting closer every day =).
Our own engine is in C++, using, for the moment, DirectX 8.1. The design, does, however, allow OpenGL, or a software renderer to be written, and used without code modifications.
DivDatabase is a database system that I am writing that will eventually contain everything that the game requires. This includes maps, textures, models, and also game content, such as scripts, unit/building definitions, etc. The interface is over a network, so it allows transparent access to a database on, say, the client PC, or to a database on another computer.
We are using our own model format, that simply holds vertex and index data. The tools are all written in VB, and we arent using Java at all.
We will certainly let you know when we start a beta test =).
Z.
Well, I implemented file records. I havent tested them yet, but it compiles =).
Basically, a file record is an item in a table that is stored in a file all by itself. Here is an example:
The column with the data type of "file" is actually stored in a file on the hard drive. Simply, this allows us to store, say, a 1024x1024 sized texture in the same column as a 32x32 sized texture, with no wasted space in the 32x32 sized slot.Code:| integer | char(020) | file |
10 hello 0
20 goodbye 1
Z.
Zaei, that sounds real intresting. I trust you are keeping the data usage as small as possible for the sake of HD space on the server ?
At the moment im not really in a networking mind and i was having a play with VB again recently. Is there anything i can do in VB ?
I think something along the lines of an installation program could be good ? like modifying the P&D Wizard to look a hell of a lot better ?? or something to do with the tow:// thing that Sas was on about.
Thanks for the remarks, Chuck. I do appreciate it, thanks :)
Well I wasn't here (or on the development front, I'm afraid :() because my Linux box came crashing down when I tried to install a new kernel. Since the bootloader was LILO, I couldn't boot into Windows either. It's all taken care of now, and I have OpenGL support in Linux :D
And cool on everybody's part. You're all doing great work :)
Looks very nice. After a quick search of the site, though, I found out why =).
On top of that, It says that a GF3 is required for the full visual splendor.Quote:
Q: Will the graphics run on slower systems, and what are the minimum system requirements?
A: Yes, in fact both graphics and sounds will run on slower systems. The current system requirements call for Pentium II systems including a GeForce 2 32 MB graphics card supporting at least 128 MB RAM to enjoy full-scale graphics quality that has never been experienced before in an RTS game.
Z.
I SHUD BE FINE :D :p :D :cool:
:P
Me stuck here with my bad processor and vid card :(
We CAN make ours look that good, but only if the models are that good ^_^
Yeah, they have pretty good artists (the textures especially). 8000 polygons per unit model is excessive, even for many first person shooters.
And Sas, "Can" is the wrong word =). "Will" Is correct =).
On my end, console parsing is going to get so much easier. I just wrote a little object. Some sample code:
The above turns "Func(string, number, string, string, number, string);" into:Code:int main()
{
string_tokenizer s(string("Func(string, number, string, string, number, string);", string("();, "));
for(int i = 0; i < s.size(); ++i)
cout << s.token(i) << endl;
return 0;
}
=).Code:Func
string
number
string
string
number
string
Z.
Well, I started working on the new and improved console class. This one should include objects and standard functions, as well as better type safety =). And it is also about a million times easier to write with the class I created above. Instead of 150 lines of code to add a function definition, I think I have like, 10 =).
Z.
Im getting a Radeon 64megDDR card this evening =).
The console is coming along. I am working on objects at the moment. I had to add some stuff to the string tokenizer. Take the code I posted above:
Notice that change in the first string, where I added the \x01s. The output would then be:Code:int main()
{
string_tokenizer s(string("Func(\x01string, number\x01, string, string, number, string);", string("();, "));
for(int i = 0; i < s.size(); ++i)
cout << s.token(i) << endl;
return 0;
}
The characters surrounded by \x01s do not get checked to see if they contain delimeters. Pretty nifty.Code:Func
string, number
string
string
number
string
Z.
Got my Radeon =). 64 megs of memory, HWT&L, FSAA. Im in heaven =).
Z.
Zaei, thats lookin pretty nifty. Wud it not be slightly better to shorten that, coz u know in C/C++ u get \i \n \a etc etc i fought \x01 was abit excessive ?
I changed it to \a =).
Z.
Now I'm the only one whose computer sucks :(
No, Im back to the TNT2. My friends new card is defective, so I dont get the old one =).
Anyway, I did a bit of work tonight (around a few naps =). I got a little bug fixed, and things are working pretty wel =). I need to add in command parsing now, shouldnt be very tough =).
Z.
Sas, you're not alone in having a sucky computer....:P
However, I've been sort of busy lately. Been working alot, and if not, I've been lying on the beach. I just cannot let the good weather pass and dont do nothing with it.
-What are you working on now, Sas? New site coming up soon?
-Zaei, how long until models will be tested? I need some info on what to do with the models.. AND have you written some more on the tutorial/article/whatever on D3D for VB?
See you later
New site, sometime, but will be up for the end of the summer.
hey, i ent been upto much recently.
Sas, is there anything non-networking that i can do that isnt too taxing and preferably in VB. do we need some stuff todo with the instaler sorting out ?
Igor, you read the first one, right? Ill see what I can cook up for you.
I need to rewrite the model converter, then I can test models out. I also need to implement skinned meshes, at some point.
Psy, working on the installer would be great =).
Z.
I will work on it once Sas has given me a general design for it and lets me know what its gotta do, ie a bit of a better explanation than b4 ;)
Okay, here's what the installer has to do:
1. Parse scripts. This is the most important. It should be able to parse scripts in a way that Inno Setup does.
2. Launch on tow:// command and parse address.
With these two, we can make install scripts, update scripts, config scripts, etc. But for now, a GUI is nice :)
Hey, the console works =). I can add and call functions, and also define classes, create objects, and call object member functions =). A class would look like this:
You can then create an object of class x, and call the member doSomething(). Parameters are checked for type and correct number, so it is pretty type safe. The member x() is the class's constructor, which is called when the object is created, if it exists(you dont have to have one =). It is simply a function name that is the same as the class name. I chose not to have a destructor, since only simple data types are allowed, so there are no pointers to clean up. The data types allowed are string, float, long, and int (same as long).Code:class x
{
function x();
function doSomething(string, long);
long some_data;
};
Z.
Zaei thats lookin infty, heh, cant wait to see it all in action and making the game work kick-ass :D
Cheers, i knew of that installer but forgot the name, i shall grab it and check out the script system.
When you say scripts, how do u want it to work. say like tow://crystal-rain.com/config-script.tws and the software downloads and runs the script or what ?
I will make it check when the app starts what type of script it will be getting and create a Gui for each type. i will do the Gui for the main install of the game first.
tow://script:crystal-rain.com/script.tws
tws = times of war script.
The only problem is that were using the tow:// method to launch game servers which could be a slight problem so what i will make is a general url handler,
it will be like tow://function:address where it parses out the function and so i can make it run the games exe and goto a game if its tow://game:127.0.0.1/ and then we can have tow://script etc etc.
Sound ok ?
Check the Who Posted for this thread, it says Jethro has posted 900 times :confused:
Jethro has no doubt acquired Zaei's old ID!
That would be annoying... Im trying to get my accounts merged, and that would make it a bit more difficult =).
I am leaving on yet another vacation this evening, though I will have internet access through Wednesday, so I will be able to work on the DScript compiler, some, but not much. I am probably going to rewrite it, to use the new string_tokenizer class, to make it even easier =).
I got object constructors working last night, pretty nifty stuff. I also got class data members up and running, so the console is pretty much complete =).
Z.
okies, i have started on the hub, its called towHub.
i have it so every time u run it it changes the registry keys to point to the application so it shud always work.
the problem is....
....how is the install going to work ?
do u want it so the proggie donwloads the files and sets them up on the PC ? tho this is crap for slow connections!!
Plz get back to me with more info on what and how this shud work. i cant work on Gui really until i know how its gonna work.
We'll have it download only the files you want. Also, we'll have the option of no user, so it can download overnight (no user intervention required). This is the best way for slow connections (seeing as, if all goes to plan, this app will be ~100kb).
I still think this is a really poor way to go about this.
a) if the app crashes, this cud be an arse.
b) the game size, on a 56k it cud be a right pain for some people to get, programs like gozilla make getting a file so much easier.
c) think of the fine normal conventional way of doing it.
d) i think were making this way too complicated for ourselves.
I think this should just be donwloaded and installed as per any normal game. the installler then adds the reg keys for the towHub to work which can be used for future game launching from a web page or other such things.
The API Download calls allow you to get any chunk of a file that you want. If the app crashes, simply start from where you left off. I think that it should work fine.
Z.
I'll look into them.
URLDownloadToFile() I believe.
Z.
If you think about Psy, this way will be better for 56k users -
1) Small downloads (get MIDI music, low-poly models, etc.)
2) Resume file transfer
3) Plus, we could just add a full-tow install package, which comes with the hub like you said. In this way, people that like the conventional download can do so.
4) I have thought of the conventional way and it has no future :D
ive got info on that API call im just looking into using it (ie how to specify the bits to get) it may be easier to do this app in C++ so i shall see. the UI is easier in vb tho so i shall probably stick with that.
Sounds good. If you need any help, I'm good with the API :)
okies, i got the parsing done of the command line. heres how its gonna work:
1) Customer goes to the web site, downloads this small application.
2) They run it and it pops up and lets them know its ready to run.
3) They return to the web site and (this is where we could have some kind of key activation serial thing based upon the players username/password) enters a key if neccesary (if we implement something like that), the wage page gives them an url to an install script, something like:
tow://install:www.crystal-rain.com/install.tws?id=b2123
the ID cud be generated in step 3 and used so that when they click this url it loads towHub and donwloads the script. using this ID system could make it so the server generates scripts as and when needed that are changed for each user, like including their username etc and makes it a bit more custom.
When the install process is complete the user can then goto a section on the site and a game url can be used:
tow://game:address:port
This should work nicely, ill work an a GUI today, if u want me to make it generate a unique key based on a username and password then let me know!
okies, addition to what i said last.
1) They donwload it.
2) The run the hub as its running for the first time the hub pops up a register dialogue. they enter a username/password and click register.
Is it possible for you to create a page on the server where by i can make the app pop-up a web browser and goto a site on the server wherby i pass a username/pass and software key, the server then generates a user key if the user/pass havent been taken before, the user enters this in the app and then its ready to use. the user key can also be their method of id for later use.
I need a Disclaimer or EULA or something!! its gonna show before you register and again before you install!
okies,i have the registration system in place. all i need now is some kind of code that is unique to every pc. maybe some kind of windows version code ?
okies, im using the windows product id as apears on the control panel on the System tab ;)
Maybe we should just increment their IDs starting with 0, or better yet, not have any. This would put an unnecessary load on the server every time a person registers and plays, and I don't have that kind of bandwidth. And about the EULA, we can create it under a general lisence. Since we are distributing the source code anyway, so that people can make mods and stuff (or that's how I've heard it) we could probably release it under the LGPL (Lesser General Public Liscense).
But that will come a bit later :)
And do you NEED a code? What's the purpose?
Well, seems like you guys have been busy while Ive been out =). The server was down all last night, which is the reason for the lack of posting. I have been doing a lot of planning, mostly on how I am going to bind real objects to console objects. At the moment, I am planning to have objects derive from a class that has a member that takes a function name string, and a set of parameters, and simply handles them. The console would sit above that, and when it recieves a command and sees that the object called is bound to a real object, it parses out the function name and sets up the parameters, and then calls the real class.
Also, I have been thinking about terrain paging, and it should be fairly simple. Also, on how to limit the camera to only the map.
Anyway, everyone keep up the good work!
Z.
okies, i removed all that **** then.
I have the Background, Welcome and Directory screens done, i shall have the gui done by the end of this week as im out tomorrow and the day after. Then i will get it downloading files. I need to know more about the URLDownloadToFile() as in specifying which bytes to donlwload, or shud i make it download whole files at once?
Gui is complete and ready for me to design up our scripting system for the installer and we'll be rolling :D
Sas, shall i mail you the application so far so you can see the Gui and let me know what you think ?
okies, i have been looking at the package and deployment wizard and after ages of blind looking i found the function that creates niec reg keys to make it so it will add out app to the Add/Remove box and run our own uninstaller :D
Good job Psy! Post a screen shot? Id like to get a look at this thing =).
Not much going on on my end, will do some more work on the compiler later =).
Z.
Zaei: I'll email it to you. It's ingenious :)
Darn vb is such an arse, there is no VB style break command is there ? as far as i know not. i have got the script parsing working well.
it skips blank line and comment lines
Sas, heres what a scipt will look like (Based on an install script):
I have included the [Server] block as this allows users to create their own scripts for mods etc and then we cud host a script yet it still points to the correct place to grab the files from.Code:
# Main block
[Script]
# The script type, could be patch, config etc etc
Type=Install
# The script version
Version=1.0
# The default directory {Program} = Program Files
Directory={Program}
# The default Group on the start menu
Group=Times of War
# Details about the application
[App]
# The system the user must have, cud include RAM, CPU OS specs etc
System=Windows98
# The version the app is being patched to / installed, can use to check if already got
Version=2.0
# Server to get files from
[Server]
Address=http://www.crystal-rain.com
Port=80
# Files to be installed
[Files]
# Total files to be installed
Total=1
# Souce, and Destination
Source: {server}:{port}/Install/tow.exe; Dest: {app}/tow.exe
[Registry]
# Still working on this
Listings under the [Files] block may have a Flag: parameter which can either be:
Readme (file to be read at the end of installation)
License (License shown during installation)
Run (File to be run at the end of installation)
Register (File to be registered - ie a .dll if needed)
The {} tags are replaced at run time with the correct data:
{app} = root application path
{windows} = windows directory
{system} = system drectory
{program} = program files directory
{server} = server files are from
{port} = port of the server (80 = default)
Ill see If I can get it =). Sounds fun =).
Psy: break in VB is Exit {block type} So, in a for loop:
Or a While loop:Code:For i = 0 to 10
if i = 5 Then Exit For
Next i
Works for Subs and Functions as well, as a return statement.Code:While true
if x then Exit While
Wend
Z.