Post election prediction

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Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp

So it looks like his latest "solution" to a problem entirely of his own making is "a whole civilisation will die", thank god Trump won the election - just think how dangerous Kamala would have been if she was in power...

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I'd say Trumps solution to this problem is the same as he always uses. Bully people into giving him what he wants. This is just the newest attempt, in a long line of ultimatums he has given Iran.

What he will eventually do if Iran wont give him a way to claim victory, I don't know. Because Trump doesn't deal in truths.

"A whole civilization will die tonight"

"we have Complete and Total Regime Change"

He has probably told another 50 lies since that post. But, for now, the Republicans continue to protect him.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

I'd say Trumps solution to this problem is the same as he always uses. Bully people into giving him what he wants. This is just the newest attempt, in a long line of ultimatums he has given Iran.

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Very true, although I think the stakes on this one are far higher than usual, unfortunately he just doesn't seem to have any other ideas - it is just bully the other side into submission. Not sure how well that will work if the other side isn't going to give in to bullying, and the entire world is watching you attempt to bully another nation....

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

What he will eventually do if Iran wont give him a way to claim victory, I don't know. Because Trump doesn't deal in truths.

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He never has, bit late to expect him to start now.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

...But, for now, the Republicans continue to protect him.

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This is something I just fail to understand, at what point do the lies, the corruption, the rapes, the obvious mental deterioration, and now the open threat of war crimes / genocide actually get too much for his supporters. Will they even condemn him if he does attempt genocide?

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This is something I just fail to understand, at what point do the lies, the corruption, the rapes, the obvious mental deterioration, and now the open threat of war crimes / genocide actually get too much for his supporters. Will they even condemn him if he does attempt genocide?

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I don't know. As I previously said,

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Nothing can really be done about it without the support of several republican members of congress. But that hasn't happened because they are more worried about their political future than they are about the costs to the US/World.

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What or if they have a limit to their submission is unknown. They haven't condemned Israel. But the US isn't unique in that regard. I hope there is a limit.

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Remember when the justification for this "police action" was to protect the Iranian citizens?

I'm starting to question if that was really their intention /s

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Honestly, No. :)

Not that I doubt you, it's that there has been an endless stream of differing reasons and I haven't attempted to keep up. I never believed any of them.

It's weird not seeing daily videos from Dil. Hopefully he's ok.

Yeah, his last post was in this thread. I may disagree with his politics but I hope he's OK.

Last night was certainly an interesting wait.

I'm glad there wasn't a massive attack on Iran but it doesn't seem to be a cease fire and Iran has closed Hormuz again.

Israel has continued to attack Lebanon and Iran has been attacking the Arab countries today. Both sides version of what the cease fire terms vary significantly.

I would like to hear from the Pakistan mediators what the terms of the cease fire were.

Unless Israel stops it attacks, I don't think there will be a true or lasting cease fire. Even if Israel does stop, the future seems very uncertain.

The reporting over here is that Pakistan are saying Lebanon was included in the ceasefire deal. I don't really know how reliable that is though.

Either way, yeah, it's quite clear that both sides are singing from different sheets so I doubt this ceasefire will last. It's still a positive, though, because it shows that some sort of ceasefire is at least feasible.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Trump TACO-ed out, but I don't know how he or any of his supports can spin this into any kind of victory.

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The reality is the situation with Iran is much worse. But you know Trump will frame this as a victory and the Rep's will pretend it's true. They know people can see it's clearly a lie but they would rather deal with that than cross Trump.

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Side note 1: I'm actually against any sanctions. They are explicitly used to hurt everyday citizens with the hope that those citizens will put pressure on the regime. It's cruel and should be considered a war crime.

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It's almost always the citizens that are harmed the most. Sanctions, wars, it not the leaders or the rich that are harmed the most.

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Originally Posted by Peter Porter

It's weird not seeing daily videos from Dil. Hopefully he's ok.

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I think I know where dil is...has anyone seen him and Trump in the same room?

Attachment 195878

/jk of course...hope you're doing OK dil.

That's textbook Trump.

What a tortured mind he must have to be continually ranting and raging. If it wasn't for the fact he has cause so much harm to people his entire adult life, I could fill sorry for him. But I can't. He is quite a pathetic person.

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Side note 1: I'm actually against any sanctions. They are explicitly used to hurt everyday citizens with the hope that those citizens will put pressure on the regime. It's cruel and should be considered a war crime.

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I'm sort of half with you here. Sanctions inevitably hit the people of a target nation before they hit it's leaders and I hate that. Trouble is, I can't think of any other measure that pressures a nation without hitting the population. I guess targeted assassination of the leader but that's got a whole lot of baggage of it's own. I feel like there's got to be a better way but I just can't think of what it is. Talking shops and international bodies (UN, NATO etc) do work up to a point but where a state is absolutely determined to go rogue and commit atrocities, what do we do?

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Side note 2: the prime minister of Pakistan's original post announcing the wind down/suspension had "Draft - Pakistan's PM Message on X" which seems to indicate that it was the Trump administration wrote this up.

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Yeah, I heard that. It sounds suspiciously like the pentagon was looking for a get out so hand fed a press release to Pakistan who rubber stamped it. But they didn't consult with Netanyahu who's clearly going to plough on regardless and they didn't even talk communicate within the administration so the 10 points end up being completely incoherent with reality. It's bizarre.

Also, WTH is going on with Melania's press conference?

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Also, WTH is going on with Melania's press conference?

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Don't we all occasionally get the urge to call a press conference to announce we never had a relationship with a paedophile that our partner is obviously connected to, that we have been photographed with numerous times, and had repeated communication with?

I mean, if we didn't call a press conference and deny it then it would imply that we were connected and did have a relationship. Makes perfect sense really :D

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I'm sort of half with you here. Sanctions inevitably hit the people of a target nation before they hit it's leaders and I hate that. Trouble is, I can't think of any other measure that pressures a nation without hitting the population. I guess targeted assassination of the leader but that's got a whole lot of baggage of it's own. I feel like there's got to be a better way but I just can't think of what it is. Talking shops and international bodies (UN, NATO etc) do work up to a point but where a state is absolutely determined to go rogue and commit atrocities, what do we do?

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I'd have to agree with this. Unless your willing to put boots on the ground, what else you got? Unfortunately the UN and NATO have turned into political tools and not deterrents. I think Israel is a good example of how ineffective they are. They haven't even imposed sanctions on Israel. Israel has been terrorizing and killing civilians in Gaza and other parts of the region for many years and all that's happened is some countries wagging a finger and saying shame on you. Just go to Google and try,

has uk sanctioned israel
has eu sanctioned israel

Nothing really. And the US is even worse, we formally support them and supply them with weapons. I'm just astounded (and disappointed) at the at atrocities that Israel has been committing with no significant consequences.

As for the cease fire, WHAT CEASE FIRE??? Trump got an offramp from his insane threats and Iran didn't sustain any more destruction (that's good). Well, it does seem the US has stopped attacking for now.

The absurd thing is, people don't believe what either side says. lol

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Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp

Don't we all occasionally get the urge to call a press conference to announce we never had a relationship with a paedophile that our partner is obviously connected to, that we have been photographed with numerous times, and had repeated communication with?

I mean, if we didn't call a press conference and deny it then it would imply that we were connected and did have a relationship. Makes perfect sense really :D

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Yes, certainly. I've almost called a press conference to deny knowing Epstein several times. It's just one of those things that happen in the small hours of the night. I always recover by morning, though. She must not have had proper hydration.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Trump TACO-ed out, but I don't know how he or any of his supports can spin this into any kind of victory.

It is also important to remember that there's no official ceasefire. It is Trump stating that he will not attack Iran for 2 weeks with the 10-point plan being the starting point of fuller peace deal. Just to be clear, Trump was demanding unconditional surrender as of a few weeks ago whereas today, he's saying that lifting primary and secondary sanctions are on the board.

How is the US in any better position today than before this "police action"?

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Side note 1: I'm actually against any sanctions. They are explicitly used to hurt everyday citizens with the hope that those citizens will put pressure on the regime. It's cruel and should be considered a war crime.

Side note 2: the prime minister of Pakistan's original post announcing the wind down/suspension had "Draft - Pakistan's PM Message on X" which seems to indicate that it was the Trump administration wrote this up.

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Well, if those really are the 10 points, then Trump got the unconditional surrender that he wanted. It was just the wrong side that surrendered. I never supported the attack on Iran, but those 10 points would be everything that Iran wanted with nothing that the US wanted. It makes it even more absurd.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Well, if those really are the 10 points, then Trump got the unconditional surrender that he wanted. It was just the wrong side that surrendered. I never supported the attack on Iran, but those 10 points would be everything that Iran wanted with nothing that the US wanted. It makes it even more absurd.

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Those 10 points seem to be a lot of concessions on USA's part to reopen the Strait again, that isn't even counting the loss of life (civilian and military), the damage to USA's reputation, and the massive expenditure on military hardware (both consumables used, and assets lost).

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Now JD Vance is claiming that it's a different set of 10-points, but they're secret, but at the same time we should have all known that from the get go. :rolleyes:

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We've had Iran under "Double Secret Probation" for months. :p

The Trump administration is very good at keeping the truth a secret.

I read this today,

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Two U.S. Navy destroyers had transited the Strait of Hormuz to begin mine-clearing operations in the vital waterway, U.S. Central Command said Saturday.

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I'm surprised Iran allowed that and continued peace talks. The Strait is by far their biggest bargaining tool. I hate to think of what Trump would do if Iran loses control of it.

As for the 10 points, that looks like an Iranian Christmas wish list. Not close to being realistic.

So Trump is angry with the pope because the pope isn't apparently hateful and supporting of violence...

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldT...94704213456431

But at least Trump doesn't have over inflated ideas of greatness :rolleyes:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Pope-Leo.html

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Every time I think that Trump can't sink to a new low, I'm proven wrong.

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I don't think there is a bottom to how Low he will sink.

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I almost never bring up religion, simply because it is an appeal to authority that literally carries no weight for people who don't believe. But as a Catholic, my interpretation of the second commandment ("Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain") is that you should not use God's name support/justify your own actions and Trump along with his supports appear to be more and more comfortable making that claim both implicitly and explicitly.

Not to mention the AI generated image of Trump being portrayed as some sort of quasi-divine figure goes against the first commandment ("I am the Lord your God; you shall not have other gods before me"); almost as if he is promoting idolatry of a politician. Personally, I find that image he posted to be outright blasphemous.

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What commandment hasn't he broken??

I was mystified for a while why he had support from religious groups/people. Clearly he is an amoral person. I finally came to the conclusion it was because he's willing to give them things they want, like anti abortion laws.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

I was mystified for a while why he had support from religious groups/people. Clearly he is an amoral person. I finally came to the conclusion it was because he's willing to give them things they want, like anti abortion laws.

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He gives them power. They've made it abundantly clear that they don't care about the means, just the ends. They'd sell their souls to the devil if he gave them the power they wanted.

Well, Trump isn't the devil but considering all the harm and chaos he has cause in the world, maybe the AntiChrist. :)

Interesting that he finally managed to piss off a bunch of his supporters by depicting himself as Jesus.

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Interesting that he finally managed to piss off a bunch of his supporters by depicting himself as Jesus.

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A lot of his supporters take their religion and bigotry very seriously.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

I was mystified for a while why he had support from religious groups/people. Clearly he is an amoral person. I finally came to the conclusion it was because he's willing to give them things they want, like anti abortion laws.

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I think this explains a lot of the Trump supporters, they focus on the one or two things they agree with but ignore everything else they disagree with.

The extremist religious crowd love his stance on abortion and his anti-LGBTQ+ opinions - they are willing to overlook he never goes to church, doesn't follow any of the commandments, is a repeat adulterer etc. They just see what they want.

Same with the right-wing (dare I say nazi tending, white supremacist) crowd love his stance on DEI and LGBTQ+, including his very anti-trans attitude - they completely ignore everything else he does that damages the country they supposedly love etc.

The more "dedicated" Republicans love his MAGA / anti-liberal agenda - they aren't paying attention to his gutting of the ACA, removing support for veterans, rampant profiteering by the medical insurance industry etc.

He seems to sell a single part of his entire chaotic approach to individual groups, who then exclude all the other disastrous things he wants to do.

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He seems to sell a single part of his entire chaotic approach to individual groups, who then exclude all the other disastrous things he wants to do.

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I'd say he promises them everything and then manages to achieve a few things. Which seems to be enough to pacify them and willing to ignore all the lies and harm.

I have a friends that's a Trump supporter. I don't bring up politics but sometimes he will say something praising Trump. So I take the opportunity to point out what a terrible person Trump is and some of things he's doing to harm the US/World. His response is usually, "He's better than Biden". Some how that's justification for all the harm Trump causes. I find that interesting.

We've reached a point where Rep/Dem voters have been convinced the other side is evil and ruining our way of life. It's not our agenda is better than theirs. That's not enough distinction.

So in the end, Reps vote of Reps and Dems vote for Dems. Since both parties are fairly equal in numbers that leaves the independents cast the deciding votes. But because of the current structure of the electoral college, you can win the popular vote but lose the election. It's about distribution, having the right number of Rep/Dems in the right places. This problem seems to be getting worse, we've been having a major redistricting war going on since the last election.

What gives me hope is I believe these things like liberal vs conservative tend to sing back and forth. We go to far in one direction and then we swing the other direction to far. I think this will continue because no matter who's in charge, people are going to be unhappy with the current government. People love to complain. :)

Iran opening Hormuz was a surprise. Not clear why they did it. Though nothing is real clear about this war.

What's been surprising me the last two weeks is the Stock Market. After the initial negative reaction it has been booming. Then again, I've never been able to make sense of how the market reacts.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

Iran opening Hormuz was a surprise. Not clear why they did it. Though nothing is real clear about this war.

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Don't worry, it's closed again.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Don't worry, it's closed again.

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I am shocked and surprised! Nobody could have ever predicted this!

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Don't worry, it's closed again.

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Darn, I went out and booked a fishing trip to the Straights when I heard it was reopened.

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I am shocked and surprised! Nobody could have ever predicted this!

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Me too!! That's why I got the non refundable fishing package.

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

Darn, I went out and booked a fishing trip to the Straights when I heard it was reopened.



Me too!! That's why I got the non refundable fishing package.

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Well don't cancel. If you catch something big enough you'd be able to say, "it's all mine!" That could be a blast.

Ah yes, I've heard that catching one of those Iranian Boom Boom fish will really blow your mine.

Another Pearl Harbor attack on Iran. "self defense strike", probably the same words used by Japan. What's that make now 3 of them. Peace negotiations with the US is dangerous.

Then again, Iran is known for negotiating things for years. I think the nuclear deal reached during Obama's presidency took two or three years.

Israel and the US have a strange interpretation of peace talks.