Iraq-US conflict

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Originally posted by barrk
Absolutely, yes!!!!!! We need the F-22. Our fighter force is becoming antiquated and has been updated as much as is possible. The F-22 is an awesome platform and will keep our airmen out of harms way while providing the most technologically advanced weapons system and fighting capability. It also pays my paycheck.

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Well, I don't know if we need it. :) But I am all for its development. The technologies that come from this will in turn be used in other areas. Besides, we showed in our last war that we do need to do something about the safety of our service men. We lost over 100 to friendly fire.

Kovan, no one in this forum has heard you provide any support, any facts, anything. Yes, I'm sure Katie can take care of herself. But I am geneticly programmed to assist her, for better or worse. :) That aside, your opening was the most pig-headed peice of **** anyone has ever written.

Regretably there is no cohesive topic left to this thread, so all I can say is, whatever racist, egotistical bull**** you want to spread is propaganda generated by your terrified little second rate religous splinter group. It amounts to nothing more than a jealous bully on an elemtary school yard wanting milk money. I'm sorry, but America has done nothing wrong in the MidEast (other than let Iraq stand). And there is nothing that gives anyone claim to the land of the Dan other than those who hold it. Isreal has it, and if you want it back, fight for it. But don't complain. There has been no injustice.

As to Afganistan and Pakistan... we have never tested weapons, or fired missile of any type into those countries. If you think other wise, the provide documented proof.

I will say that American manufacturers are free to sell arms to other countries (within prescribed reason). If India used American made weapons against Pakistan, well... sucks to be in Pakistan.

Also, America has supplied weapons to Afganistan rebels in the hopes of repelling Soviet troops. If you were on the receiving end of an American weapon in Afganistan, well... it is likely that you weren't supposed to be in Afganistan in the first place. ;)

Now... I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANOTHER WORD OUT OF ANY DAMNED BODY ELSE UNLESS THEY WANT TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION. Or unless they want to ask for some documentation. I realize that I didn't provide any here but I'm sure I could find some. I haven't said anything here more substaintail than the grass is green. And if you want proof of that, well, too damned bad. :)

'Course, I realize no one is going to listen to me.

Thank you, Travis Hugh!


Since you asked......here's another picture of my plane!

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Originally posted by chrisjk
People seem to be forgetting that the US is only half the force in these bombing raids (gee, I wonder why :rolleyes: )

Britain has bombed Iraq almost daily since 1990. British Tornado's also help patrol the no-fly zones with Us craft

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As a note:

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According to Desert-Storm.com
Military Presence of Allied Forces

Afghanistan, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslvakia, Egypt, France, Germany, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Kuwait, New Zealand, Niger, Oman, Poland, Qatar, Romania, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Syria, UAE, UK, US

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I think the world, not just America, spoke. I think it is safe to say that the judgement was Iraq should not be in Kuwait.

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Originally posted by barrk
Thank you, Travis Hugh!


Since you asked......here's another picture of my plane!

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You are most welcome.

Uhm... and where is that picture? It is a pretty plane, but I still think the F-14 is prettier. Besides, we used 6 carriers in Desert Storm. I think we should develop an new carrier based fighter. The 14s and 6s are getting old.

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Thank you, Travis Hugh!


Since you asked......here's another picture of my plane

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Oops! Computers do not like me this week....I'll try again!

Any progress on the JSF? Do we know whether Lockheed or Boeing got it yet? I preferred the Lockheed one myself.

What is the JSF?

I understand this week we had the first successful test of the scramjet engine. I think it went 260'/.3s. I saw it on Slashdot.

Okay.....what's the problem.....it tells me thanks for posting etc. and then proceeds to dump my attachment!?!?!?!

The F-22 has much more capabilities than any previous fighter we've developed! If you want to talk about pretty, though, the SR-71 still gets my vote.:)

The JSF is the Joint Strike Fighter.....the fly off will be in October. The Boeing plane is UGLY!!!! The Lockheed plane looks like a mini-F-22 and gets my vote......not that they're asking!:rolleyes:

I saw a prototype of the Boeing JSF at the Farnborough air show last summer, and it's far from pretty. The single huge engine looks like it was just strapped onto the bottom after the rest of the plane was designed because they forgot it. It's a pretty huge behemoth of an aircraft too. Or at least it looks it close up, could be that I don't have the right sense of scale since I don't see many aircraft close up. Except helicopters, they make Apaches, Lynxes and others in the town I'm from so I see quite a lot of them.

The F-22 just has so many harse angles. I'm sure it is impressive.

I do like the SR-71s. They are pretty. But when I saw the MD-71 at the Boeing Museum, well... I was expecting something bigger.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
The F-22 just has so many harse angles. I'm sure it is impressive.

I do like the SR-71s. They are pretty. But when I saw the MD-71 at the Boeing Museum, well... I was expecting something bigger.

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I went on a tour of Edwards AFB in the Mojave Desert earlier this year. We saw two SR-71s, a B-2 flying, a gazillion F-16's, and one of the four (five?) F-22 prototypes. They had to take our cameras away to see the F-22, though.

Psst Katie, are you sure you're allowed to show us your pictures? :D

I live and work at Edwards AFB. Yep, they have been cleared for public release!:D

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Originally posted by barrk
I live and work at Edwards AFB. Yep, they have been cleared for public release!:D

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You're kidding! You shoulda told me, we coulda coffee or something.:o

Yep! Did you enjoy your tour?

Mostly. I really liked the marine attack dog unit where they train dogs to kill you. The rest of it was just looking at airplanes on airstrips, air museums, the NASA thing, and more airplanes. We stayed in these sweet townhouses, VOQ or something like that. It was all really fun, but a bit too hot to live there.

You stayed in the Visiting Officer's Quarters??? What group were you with? Yep, it's hot.

Air Cadets, from Canada. I still can't believe you charge 10 cents for ice cream in your mess hall.

They didn't force you to eat in the mess hall did they??? I'd protest if I were you!:rolleyes: You should have gone to the Base Exchange (BX), they have a Baskin Robbins in there!

The mess hall probably seemed cheaper to them, I dunno. They'd already paid for Disneyland and Universal Studios, so it was time to make some sacrifices.:D The food was... acceptable, I suppose. We went to the BX once, to stock up on coke and junk food. Only there for 4 days, so there wasn't any point to getting more than 3-4 cases per person.

That does remind me, though, they had coffee in the mini-kitchens, we were told the base charges for that, but no one really believed them. Is that true?

Yep. 25 cents a cup or 5$ per month for the coffee.

Ugh. Cheap bastards. And to think you guys bill Lockhead $100,000 for a screwdriver :D

Aha!

A good fiend of mine just told me about this site! I am from Afghanistan, and I have read all of the anti-Afghani slander on these sites.

I am here to defend my homeland.

I have been to England, where they REPEATIDLY quote ANTI-KURDISH porpoganda to all of their children. Every-single one of them is taught to hate us. And yet, yet you mock our culture.

Did your own Jesus not say "Do not mock the meek for they shall rise up against you?", and did he not say (on many occasions) "Your brothers in the east are the fountain of mankind"... clearly a reference that we were here first.

I await your reply if you have one.

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Originally posted by TheCatalyst
I have been to England, where they REPEATIDLY quote ANTI-KURDISH porpoganda to all of their children. Every-single one of them is taught to hate us.

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Whatever you reckon. For the record, I am capable of forming my own opinion. We are not taughty anit-kurdish crap. Infact, half of the kids probably don't even know what a kurd is, which blows your "theory" out of the water

May I ask why you came here?

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A good fiend of mine just told me about this site! I am from Afghanistan, and I have read all of the anti-Afghani slander on these sites.

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His name wouldn't happen to be abdul or kovan, would it?

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I am here to defend my homeland.

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Grand. Read the posts by the aforementioned "opponents." I'd be very pleased should you be able to provide factual data to support your conjecture.

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I have been to England, where they REPEATIDLY quote ANTI-KURDISH porpoganda to all of their children. Every-single one of them is taught to hate us.

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I have no idea where you've been living in England, but I doubt this is mainstream conduct. In what sort of situation did you experience this? In a school, at the mall, at work, tourist sites? I live in Canada (basically England) and there's no such activity condoned by our government, its institutions, or the media.

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And yet, yet you mock our culture.

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I don't mock your culture. I pity your culture. Your culture demands that women can wear only what you tell women to wear. Women can do only what you tell women to do. Women are bought and sold like any commodity, and poverty runs rampant throughout your society whilst you support terrorism, religious violence, and racism. You hate anyone who asks proposes any sort of critisism towards Islam. You do not allow people to think as they wish, you do not allow people to author or create as they wish, you do not allow people to do anything in any sort of fashion that contradicts your leaders' interpretations of whatever God they tend to worship. Hate is synonymous with Islam.

You find none of the aforementioned abominations of human rights in any free country, western or otherwise.

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Did your own Jesus not say "Do not mock the meek for they shall rise up against you?", and did he not say (on many occasions) "Your brothers in the east are the fountain of mankind"... clearly a reference that we were here first.

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I honestly don't give a **** what Jesus may or may not have said. Jesus has no connection or relevance to me.

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I await your reply if you have one.

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You seem anxious. Do you have something to prove?

You signed up just for this.. huh ?

Are you someone from a Taliban Agency ?

Are the Afgani Kurds related to the northern Iraqi/Turkish Kurds?

And as I said before. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYMORE BULL**** FROM YOU PEOPLE. YOU HAD BEST PROVIDE DOCUMENTED FACTS! MORE THAN HALF THE PEOPLE IN THE UK AND THE US HAVE NO CLUE WHAT A KURD IS. YOU ARE SIMPLY LYING ABOUT ANY PUBLIC PROPAGANDA.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG

And as I said before. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYMORE BULL**** FROM YOU PEOPLE. YOU HAD BEST PROVIDE DOCUMENTED FACTS! MORE THAN HALF THE PEOPLE IN THE UK AND THE US HAVE NO CLUE WHAT A KURD IS. YOU ARE SIMPLY LYING ABOUT ANY PUBLIC PROPAGANDA.

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You want proof? I'll give you proof!

Do you deny that every school kid is repeatidly told the "nursery" rhyme Little Miss Muffet? And what may I ask are the words of that little ditty.

Yes.

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Little Miss Muffet, Sat on a tuffet,
Eating her KURDS and Whey

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I rest my case. How do you think you would feel if we had a rhyme about some mad woman eating your children. Eh! Eh!

Or maybe you deny every hearing this rhyme....

:D Man is it ever easy to yank your chain?

Sorry guys, but I couldn't resist it ;)

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Do you deny that every school kid is repeatidly told the "nursery" rhyme Little Miss Muffet? And what may I ask are the words of that little ditty.

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Not "kurds," but "curds." A curd is the thick casein-rich part of coagulated milk.

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I rest my case.

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I certainly hope not. This was starting to get interesting.

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How do you think you would feel if we had a rhyme about some mad woman eating your children. Eh! Eh!

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I think it was entitled Hansel and Grettle. But whatever.

I was thinking it was Kovan, but you use punctuation. So who is it?

curds != Kurds

And I'm serious, I really don't know what a Kurd is, so I don't know if they are the same as the Iraqi/Turkish Kurds. Are they?

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Originally posted by aknisely
I think it was entitled Hansel and Grettle. But whatever.

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I'm sorry, but I have to quote That 70's Show.

Burn!

Three points for Adam.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
I was thinking it was Kovan, but you use punctuation. So who is it?

curds != Kurds

And I'm serious, I really don't know what a Kurd is, so I don't know if they are the same as the Iraqi/Turkish Kurds. Are they?

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;) That would be telling.

And as for the difference between Kurds. I don't know! :D

Cheers.....

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Originally posted by TheCatalyst
How do you think you would feel if we had a rhyme about some mad woman eating your children.

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I don't know. Do you allow women to eat?

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Originally posted by TheCatalyst
Do you deny that every school kid is repeatidly told the "nursery" rhyme Little Miss Muffet? And what may I ask are the words of that little ditty.

Yes.

I rest my case. How do you think you would feel if we had a rhyme about some mad woman eating your children. Eh! Eh!

Or maybe you deny every hearing this rhyme....

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hahahahah that's sooooooo funny. I think you'll find it is CURDS in the song, which is a foodstuff, you idiot.

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Originally posted by aknisely
Ugh. Cheap bastards. And to think you guys bill Lockhead $100,000 for a screwdriver :D

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You've got your facts all farkled up! The mini-bars are put into each building. The units that inhabit the buildings go out each month and purchase coffee and bottled water. We pay 25 cents per cup so they can buy more coffee when we run out. The government has nothing to do with the mini-bars except for providing us a place to take a break!

As to the 100,000 dollar screwdriver......let me put it this way. The airforce asks for proposals for a new aircraft. Lockheed designs a prototype aircraft. They have one particular screw in the design that has a screw in a recessed position. The engineers determine that the design requires a custom built screw driver. Not only is the screwdriver one of a kind but it must be manufactured out of a certain alloy. Lockheed charges the airforce for the design of the screwdriver, the study to determine what the screwdriver must be made of and the manufacturing cost. Lockheed wins the contract with the stipulation that they redesign the aircraft to use standard tools where possible so in the meantime, Lockheed revises the design so it can use a standard screwdriver.:rolleyes: Lockheed bills the gov't for the development of a tool that will be used only to build a prototype aircraft! In the government account books it shows that we paid Lockheed 100,000 dollars for a screwdriver. This is a worst case scenario of course.

In the case of the B-2 there were several innovations needed that cost a lot of money to design and develop but once they had the engineering figured out the cost of making the new device was actually pennies. It shows on the account books that it cost 100,000 dollars for the item but spread out over the lifetime of the aircraft that cost decreases.

It's not really as unreasonable as it sounds at first hearing.

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Originally posted by barrk
You've got your facts all farkled up! The mini-bars are put into each building. The units that inhabit the buildings go out each month and purchase coffee and bottled water. We pay 25 cents per cup so they can buy more coffee when we run out. The government has nothing to do with the mini-bars except for providing us a place to take a break!

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When I worked for EDS, we worked in a government facility (USPS). EDS provided coffee in the break areas to all the employees. It was really cheap as far as EDS is concerned. But the government employees are limited in the "gifts" they can receive, especially from contract agencies such as EDS. So they paid for the coffee.

Admittedly, it was a "on your honor, pay what you feel comfortable with". So EDS wasn't covering the expense of providing the coffee, but now it didn't look like a gift.

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Originally posted by barrk
It's not really as unreasonable as it sounds at first hearing.

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Erm, yes. I still don't want to pay for coffee in my hotel room :D:D:D:p

I don't blame you but I'm sure it's okay for guests to pinch a cup without having to pay! I'll vouch for you if you need me too!;)

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Originally posted by barrk
I don't blame you but I'm sure it's okay for guests to pinch a cup without having to pay! I'll vouch for you if you need me too!;)

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I appreciate that, but it was in April. Unless you slip back in (I think it was building 6, 235 or something like that) and send me a packet of Nescafe...

Consider it done!;)

Wait a minute....did you say you were here in April and you thought it was too hot????

Thanks!;)


Forgive me, I live in Canada. It's -30°C in the winter and dark for nine months.

Lol wow! i missed a lot in a few hours. Curds...Kurds...thats hilarious. Did you really think that the western society made a nursery rhime that depicts cannibalism? Btw, i dont think curds really taste that good. Made the mistake of trying some.

Well until Kovan or abdul come back i guess we might as well talk about fighter planes:p . Katie...just wondering about you opinion (all others also), but arent UCAVs supposed to be the future of fighter plane technology? I mean in a dogfight, even the best F-22 pilot can't compete with an enemy that is programmed, has literally split-second reactions...and can pull turns (Gs) that would kill any human pilot. And arent those supposed to enter service in 10 years? As soon as they do enter service...lwill F-22s not be obsolete? I mean seriously...spending this much money for under a decade of service seams unwieldy. Just looking for opinions.

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Originally posted by aknisely
Thanks!;)


Forgive me, I live in Canada. It's -30°C in the winter and dark for nine months.

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Actually its dark for 6 months in some remote parts of Nunavut:rolleyes: . Come on man, just cuz your leaving Canada you dont have to give it such a bad name:p .

The Unmanned vehicles will take the place of human pilots when we turn over control of our missle systems to a computer.:rolleyes: ....in other words.....never. You can't take humans completely out the equation when the consequences of mistakes is a matter of life and death. The UAVs are drones, used for reconnociance. They are unarmed and their are no plans to change that in the future.

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Originally posted by barrk
You can't take humans completely out the equation when the consequences of mistakes is a matter of life and death

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We make many many many more mistakes than computers do

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Originally posted by nishantp
Actually its dark for 6 months in some remote parts of Nunavut:rolleyes: . Come on man, just cuz your leaving Canada you dont have to give it such a bad name:p .

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It already has a bad name. Ask one American or Briton or Afghan what he thinks of Canada. I'm just being hyperbulous.

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Originally posted by barrk
The Unmanned vehicles will take the place of human pilots when we turn over control of our missle systems to a computer.:rolleyes: ....in other words.....never. You can't take humans completely out the equation when the consequences of mistakes is a matter of life and death. The UAVs are drones, used for reconnociance. They are unarmed and their are no plans to change that in the future.

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Oh come on, we all know that when you went into space, you found super-intelligent space monkeys. THAT'S who's flying your so-called "unmanned" planes. I'm calling the ASPCA.

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Originally posted by aknisely
It already has a bad name. Ask one Briton what he thinks of Canada. I'm just being hyperbulous.

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I hear nothing but good from people who have been to canada

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Originally posted by barrk
The Unmanned vehicles will take the place of human pilots when we turn over control of our missle systems to a computer.:rolleyes: ....in other words.....never. You can't take humans completely out the equation when the consequences of mistakes is a matter of life and death. The UAVs are drones, used for reconnociance. They are unarmed and their are no plans to change that in the future.

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I beg to differ. I have seen articles in the darn paper that say that UCAVs are the future of air combat. And in the future, life and death situations will only be if the UCAV is programmed to bomb a target. Otherwise, it'll just be UCAV against UCAV. And as soon as one county has it, others will have to follow because all the planes manned planes in the world cant compete with a UCAV that reacts faster, doesnt make mistakes, and pulls 30G turns.

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Originally posted by chrisjk
I hear nothing but good from people who have been to canada

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Sixteen years in Canada has been nothing but trouble. We force you to use our communist health care, or as I call it, Hospital-Lite. We have five official parties, none of which do anything at all, and one of which can't even keep its members in line. Our senate is a joke. We are controlled by a population of people who hate us, and associate with a French society that, despite having distinct constitutional recognition, feel the need to desert all of us. Ottawa continues to take money from Albertans, which I don't ordinarily have a problem with, but it's becoming more and more worrysome. Everyone in Canada (at least, everyone in my school) hates Americans, though we live in a society of tolerance. Our only symbol of national pride is beer -- the worst beer on the planet. I'm going to go form my own country and be the autocrat, because I know what's good for everyone.

Jeez if you hate it so much, why did you stay for 16 years??!?!

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Originally posted by aknisely
We have five official parties, none of which do anything at all, and one of which can't even keep its members in line. Our senate is a joke.

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We have many many parties, one of which can't keep it's members in line.

The House of Lords, whilst not a joke, is a bit silly. It's meant to be there to stop parliament doing things they don't agree with (kind of a regulatory body), yet if parliament really want to pass a law, they can invoke the Parliament Act, then the house of lords can't block it. Now that is dumb.

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Originally posted by nishantp
Jeez if you hate it so much, why did you stay for 16 years??!?!

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I'm going to wait 6 more years to get my commerce degree, then it's off to law school somewhere in the States.

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Originally posted by chrisjk
We have many many parties, one of which can't keep it's members in line.

The House of Lords, whilst not a joke, is a bit silly. It's meant to be there to stop parliament doing things they don't agree with (kind of a regulatory body), yet if parliament really want to pass a law, they can invoke the Parliament Act, then the house of lords can't block it. Now that is dumb.

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The House of Lords = the Senate, I suppose. The problem is that the senators are appointed by the Crown (on the recommendation of the PM), and not elected by the population. Included in my "Why I'm Leaving Canada" letter I'm writing to both Parliament and Congress is my plan to have 8 senators per each province or territory, plus the Governor General.

Commerce degree huh. Arent you a programmer? :D Hehe so are u going to be a lawyer? Do you realize that like 80% of the human race hates lawyers?

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Originally posted by aknisely
The House of Lords = the Senate, I suppose. The problem is that the senators are appointed by the Crown (on the recommendation of the PM), and not elected by the population. Included in my "Why I'm Leaving Canada" letter I'm writing to both Parliament and Congress is my plan to have 8 senators per each province or territory, plus the Governor General.

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Well i hope its read...but i like to be realistic:rolleyes: .But by all means send it anyways.

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Commerce degree huh. Arent you a programmer? :D

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Yeah, but there isn't enough money in it anymore. Windows programming isn't popular in university, and I haven't the effort to learn Linux and its associated languages.

The only real alternative, as I see it, is taxation law.

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Do you realize that like 80% of the human race hates lawyers?

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Of course not. Lawyers get you out of prison, ruin your spouse's life, help you pay less tax, launder your money, setup your illegal companies, and sell your used meth labs to real estate companies. Everybody loves lawyers. :eek:

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Originally posted by nishantp
Well i hope its read...but i like to be realistic:rolleyes: .But by all means send it anyways.

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Thanks for your approval, I'll include your name :D

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Originally posted by aknisely
The House of Lords = the Senate, I suppose. The problem is that the senators are appointed by the Crown (on the recommendation of the PM), and not elected by the population

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Same here, they are an unlected body. Tony Blair is trying to change how the lords works though, I beleive his eventual goal is to have about 50% elected, the rest decided by vote in parliament (something like that)