organic

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Originally Posted by learning c

hi penagate, we'll get to that

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I cannot wait.

lol :D

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Originally Posted by learning c

hi rudi good question, is that an organic computer or a combination of organic and digital processing?

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IT WOULD DEPEND IF WE PUT THE PLANT IN THE COMPUTER OR THE COMPUTER IN THE PLANT WOUDLN'T IT

Rudi, well there appears to be a few issues. the first is the issue of the capability of the mind/software, eg can it do logical operations and multithread. the next issue is can the hardware support the mind?

in the case of the plant, the computer software needs to be supported by hardware that allows high level logic and multithreading. so you would need to have the software supported by appropriate hardware, however, theoretically i see no reason why you couldn't create an interface between a computer and a plant. :)

I'm sure somewhere in here is an innovation that will revolutionise farming.

So...whats going on in here?

Don't ask.

hi atheist are you a bible atheist or an absolute atheist?

at the moment we are contemplating relativity and the speed of light and the concepts of the mind vs body, etc

marty isn't light affected by gravity, implying a mass?

For the love of christ...

Ask precise questions and maybe we can give you precise answers.

"Light" is a description. "Light" is merely photons bouncing off of everything else. Yes, photons have mass. Photons "produce" light, if you will. A more correct way of saying that would be they "transmit" light. All particles have mass. So yes, gravity does affect photons. Why do you think black holes are called that? Gravity is so intense photons can't escape.

so rudi, the second part of your question was would that be hu man?

and that really gets into interesting territory. is a hu man defined by the body or the mind, by the hardware or the software, or by a combination of the two? I would argue that the body as long as it is capable of supporting the mind, is essentially superfluous and therefore does not define humanity.

so a suggestion is that a hu mans may be defined by a range of mental attibutes / processing capabilities not limited to the following examples performed to a particular level:

perhaps :
1. ability to learn
2. ability to communicate

probably:
3. memory short term
4. memory long term
5. ability to perform logical operations
6. ability to multithread
7. level of capacity

Why do you spell human hu man?

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

Why do you spell human hu man?

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I've been wanting to ask that for the past 4 pages :p

It adds to the intrigue. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by learning c

one week with c++, less actually :) I have been redefining medicine the rest of the time.

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Herbal medicine, by any chance?

wow....
5 pages already...
we're starting to catch up with the posts race :D

Things traveling at relativistic velocity increase in mass proportionally to their velocity. Thus making delta-v more expensive.

Also those same objects experience "Length Contraction" which is interesting in itself.

Therefore if you travel at relativistic speed towards a black hole's EH then you're royally screwed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by learning c

so rudi, the second part of your question was would that be hu man?

and that really gets into interesting territory. is a hu man defined by the body or the mind, by the hardware or the software, or by a combination of the two? I would argue that the body as long as it is capable of supporting the mind, is essentially superfluous and therefore does not define humanity.

so a suggestion is that a hu mans may be defined by a range of mental attibutes / processing capabilities not limited to the following examples performed to a particular level:

perhaps :
1. ability to learn
2. ability to communicate

probably:
3. memory short term
4. memory long term
5. ability to perform logical operations
6. ability to multithread
7. level of capacity

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I would write my software for my plant man as to be like a hu man. It would be able to learn and community via the means of Microsoft Sam from Windows XP (or maybe the chick from Vista).

I shall start writing my plant man/hu man code today :cool:

:afrog:

:cool: so Rudi, is plant man going to be an organic plant body capable of supporting high level processing with a digital interface allowing programs to move to and from the plant vessel?

USB, Yes.

finished an article, sorry for being away.

now where were we?

so a photon is created when electrons get overexcited and release excess energy as particles of electromagnetic radiation that have both properties of waves and some properties of particles and have some mass and are affected by gravity as a result. they have energy, electric and magnetic field properties, wavelength, frequency, velocity, mass.

thinking about it, when it is initially created, the photon would have to accelerate to the speed of light would it not?

also there seems to be at least 2 types of energy, the energy contained within the electro magnetic wave, and the energy required to accelerate to the particle to the speed of light.

so it costs us very little energy to accelerate a photon to the speed of light, why can't we add some more energy to accelerate it past that speed?

that's where general and special relativity come into explanation and have hard evidence supporting them and they say that the speed of light in a vacuum can never be exceeded.

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Originally Posted by RudiVisser

USB, Yes.

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sure why not? :D

and so if we have hu man intelligence in a plant, is the plant hu man? and if we plant level intelligence in a hu man body does that make it a plant?

A photon is emitted when an electron makes a quantum leap. Research that term. A photon is tricky because sometimes light behaves as a wave, and sometimes as a particle. It's very difficult to pin down precision on something like that. Intelligence presumes the ability for the physical changes in the brain that I specified earlier. If you can locate a brain in a plant, please do so. I would be delighted to know that plants really do have feelings.

I believe I just rendered your last post useless, along with much of your arguement.

And to elaborate on that... intelligence presumes the ability to learn... it doesn't presume that one actually learns... as seems to be your case. Humans are categorized intelligent because we can learn, not because we do learn.

Yes, I just insulted you. I said the only reason you were classified intelligent is because you're capable of learning. Actually doing it seems to be a leap you have yet to make.

If I program an asparagus spear to urinate, will it smell funny? I will call my project pe pole 1.0.

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by timeshifter

A photon is emitted when an electron makes a quantum leap. Research that term. A photon is tricky because sometimes light behaves as a wave, and sometimes as a particle. It's very difficult to pin down precision on something like that

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sure, however you understand the problem, how does a particle of EM radiation get to the speed of light without first accelerating to that speed? the quantum leap describes the process, but the references i read didn't answer the question :shrug:

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Originally Posted by timeshifter

Intelligence presumes the ability for the physical changes in the brain that I specified earlier. If you can locate a brain in a plant, please do so. I would be delighted to know that plants really do have feelings.

I believe I just rendered your last post useless, along with much of your arguement.

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i already discussed some of the characteristics of hu man intelligence as distinct from the hardware be it silicon or organic.

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And to elaborate on that... intelligence presumes the ability to learn... it doesn't presume that one actually learns... as seems to be your case. Humans are categorized intelligent because we can learn, not because we do learn.

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there are examples of people with head injuries that are no longer capable of learning, however, they are still able to perform operations with the processing that they learned until that point in time even quite high level mathematics. :)

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Yes, I just insulted you. I said the only reason you were classified intelligent is because you're capable of learning. Actually doing it seems to be a leap you have yet to make.

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did you enjoy that, and at my expense :cry:

isn't it theoretically possible to engineer a monkey to have the same brain structure and therefore organic hardware as a hu man?

by extension the same could be applied to a plant too couldn't it?

however if you still had a monkey's mind in its hu man engineered brain, then it would still be a monkey wouldn't it?

same with a plant.

so that is why i proposed that humanity is defined by the mind/software capabilities and not by the hardware.

NM. Del this

I agree. C, you've killed this thread so many times I've lost count. It's time to say... this thread is dead.

same fromethius?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hophf-083Eo

chrono34, sounds greek to me, and perhaps a little like the story of adam in the garden of eden. :hmmm:

Kronos was a god in ancient Greek mythology, if that's what you mean.

"chrono" means "time"... see my user name for the correlation.

That account is also about five years old, I just haven't gotten enough spam to warrant making a new one.

interesting name, most people have only heard of Cronos the titan who gave his father's genitals the chop and ate most of his children :)

At the time I came up with the name, I knew absolutely nothing about Greek mythology. I still know very little, except from Microsoft's game, Age of Mythology. heh...

looks like an impressive game, i liked:
kingdom under fire
lord of the rings the third age
colin mcrae rally 2005
crimson skies

i need to get a 360 and some new games :D

AoM wasn't graphically impressive, but it featured great gameplay, just like its' ancestors, the Age of Empires series. It was isometric with the ability to rotate... kind of awkward... it's a horribly fake 3d, but I guess it's kind of cool... still a good game, though.

have you got the 360 yet?

360 sucks.

ok






well any further thoughts on learning as a requirement of hominid thinking?

Explain to me why I just scratched my own eyes out.

Learning C++... what happens when you have learned sufficient C++ and want to move on to another language? :ehh: Do you begin a new account?

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Originally Posted by grilkip

Explain to me why I just scratched my own eyes out.

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my guess is you are doing the same as me and replacing them with new wider spectrum sensors capable of picking up a greater range of electromagnetic frequencies. ;)

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Originally Posted by Andrew G

Learning C++... what happens when you have learned sufficient C++ and want to move on to another language? :ehh: Do you begin a new account?

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sure why not? :)

C, please tell us more of your opinions about the human brain.

Wossy, please explain to us the details of the theory I heard you came up with yesterday... Wasn't the topic using toe jam as a renewable energy source?

Timeshifter, please explain to me how one should shift time.

of the mind. It's all a trick

If I turn time forward and then turn it back would you know?

I am unaffected by your chan ges in time, but yes I will notice.

Why? Are you not hu man?

I'd be happy to wossname, one issue that i have been thinking about is the concept of pleasure which is the motivator for many hominids, for example the feeling one gets when one gets a date with a cute girl, a pay rise, takes a dose of pure ecstasy, or accomplishes some intellectual challenge. I realised that the organic pleasure reward system is fundamental to reinforcing activities and behaviours on a subconscious level. So how does it work, and could it be implemented in a silicon computer?

vb Code:

if (experiencing.Pleasure()) Then
   Silicone.ShowEmotion(Emotion.Happy)
Else
   Silicon.DoNothing()
Endif

learning c... would you please just shut up about the issue? We're trying to throw this thread wildly off topic.. something that should have been done about 8 pages ago.. so just let it die. As if it's not dead any way...

i agree Rudi, however, how does the organic chemistry work?

vb Code:

If (timeshifter.Emotions = Emotions.Angry) Then
    ThisThread.Kill()
Else 
    ThisThread.Kill()
EndIf
' Just In Case
ThisThread.Kill()

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Originally Posted by timeshifter

learning c... would you please just shut up about the issue? We're trying to throw this thread wildly off topic.. something that should have been done about 8 pages ago.. so just let it die. As if it's not dead any way...

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i think i speak for most people when i say that you come across as obnoxious, rude, and boring. no one is forcing you to stay in the thread. :p

Agreed.

vb Code:

If (learning_c.Actions = Actions.Retaliation) Then 
    timeshifter.Say("Agreed.")
Else
    RudiVisser.Say("Organic Chemistry works by telling the silicon to move.")
Endif
' I want to say it anyway
RudiVisser.Say("Organic Chemistry works by telling the silicon to move.")

Organic Chemistry works by telling the silicon to move.

vb Code:

Silicon.Wiggle()

is it possible to make a computer feel pleasure?