No, these ones are actually usable, and editable ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
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No, these ones are actually usable, and editable ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Never in my wildest dreams did I expect this thread to get this much attention, but, it certainly has been very enjoyable reading.
I think I'm going to try FireFox at home (I can't at work...locked into IE)
Noooooo! :lol: You need to also try IE 7 then. :D
Well, I do have more than one computer at home, and, both my company, and the company at which I'm doing onsite work for, have IE as their default, so at some point, I'm sure they will roll it out as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Never used AOL...I am not stupid..;) Keywords for bookmarks is the smartest thing ever...saves me so much time every day....espacialy for seraches on google...just one letter to do a search..;)
- ØØ -
We had a client (an attorney) that used AOL and it is terrible. Its like the internet for beginners, very beginners. Dont you use the Google search bar? just as easy and time saving.
Google automaticaly pics up your IE and see where you are in the world...Since I am in Switzerland and not German speaking as they think I am, a the search bar gives me Google in German, with lots of german results....see where I am going with this...;) Keywords is the way to go...;)
- ØØ -
Yes, but it just doesnt seem right :lol:
Then get new glasses and , some hearing aid, then we can talk again..:)
What is it with them? My wife is an attorney, and the firm she was with for many, many years used AOL for their internet and corporate email. She hated it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
I'm doing a new site design for my homepage. I decided to try some alpha PNGs, thus I needed a trick to get it right in IE6 and IE5.5. I also ended up choosing to use an XML prolog, meaning even IE7 doesn't understand margin : 0 auto; ... and here I am, I need CSS fixes for every IE that exists to this day. I also decided I'll have fun with IE4 and make it useable as well, since it supports enough CSS and I have it installed.
So... the page is at http://merri.net/index.html at the moment.
The problems:
- All IEs: do not understand margin : 0 auto; to center a block element due to entering into quirksmode rendering (this should be fixed in IE7 final). IEs also display <img> alt attribute as tooltip, other browsers show the title attribute.
- IE 6.0 and IE 5.5: partial alpha PNG support done via JavaScript and an unofficial filter CSS trick. Effects only <img> tags. Use non-alpha PNGs for CSS defined images.
- IE 5.0: since no alpha PNG support, make a big light blue box for the menu so it looks atleast a little better.
- IE 4.0: since can't set list items horizontally via CSS only, the menu is scrollable... not easy, but bearable. Several other layot fixes. IE4 check is done via JavaScript browser detection :( I also had to include meta content-type as IE didn't understand XML prolog at all and IE4 didn't understand if included using document.write.
In the source:
As far as I know, other browsers get it mostly right, although I haven't been able to test with Firefox 1.0.7, Konqueror and Safari. Opera 7.54u2 doesn't show the menu horizontally and there is only one item visible, but I don't bother to figure out how to detect it... one nasty JavaScript detection is enough. Oh well... atleast shows that Firefox and Opera work with the standards while IE requires some extra work.Code:<!-- to fix the issues of Internet Explorer 7, 6, 5.5, 5.0 and 4.0 -->
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<!--[if IE]><style media="screen" type="text/css">@import url('/ie_all.css');</style><![endif]-->
<!--[if lt IE 7]><style media="screen" type="text/css">@import url('/ie_png.css');</style><script defer src="/ie_png.js" type="text/javascript"></script><![endif]-->
<!--[if lt IE 5.5]><style media="screen" type="text/css">@import url('/ie_5.css');</style><![endif]-->
<script src="/ie_4.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
Designwise comment: I really need to read about visual design some day so I could do a design that looks fully unique by style.
Other comments: wanted to bring up some practical issues that bother with IE when making websites. I've learned to avoid many things in CSS that would be nice if they worked with IE, position : fixed; would be great for an example.
Edit: btw, the Tetris page works, try it: it is done with a nice CSS and JavaScript combination, each thing doing what it should be doing.
Firefox Question: Opera has a very nice feature "Fit to window width". When you click this button, it resizes the page so that it fits it selfaccording to window width. Very usefull for 800x600 users like me.
Anything similar in Firefox ?
Sorry Hack. This is probably not the right place to ask, but all Fx lovers gather here. So... :D
@Merri,
I have played your Tetris game. It is great. :thumb:
I'm happy to report that the page looks fine in Konqueror 3.5.
also looks great in Fx 1.0.7 (posting from Ubuntu livecd).Quote:
Originally Posted by CornedBee
Try www.browsershots.org. It takes a few hours (to a day or two) but you end up with pictures of a site in most of the major browsers (not including Fx 1.5).
Merri I think illustrates why most web designers hate IE. If you want to use CSS (and many others things) for more than just the basics, there are so many extra things you have to do to get a website working correctly. Probably all non-trivial sites could be made so much simpler code-wise if they didn't have to work in IE. Users don't notice, and most IE users wouldn't know, because sites that they see look fine - they don't realise the additional effort that goes into getting them that way.
Then again, many pages use old-school techniques like table-based layouts and presentational elements, and their coders probably don't see any problems with IE because of that.
Don't think so, you can decrease the text size using Ctrl+- but that's about it... Unless the page uses fixed widths then it should resize with your window anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by iPrank
I think because they are very knowledgeable in Law and not in Tech stuff they are afrad to try to learn and stick with the kiddy level of surfing the web - AOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack
Always problems with them and email or just network connection, etc. Boooo! AOL SLAP :D
There is some updated info on what has been fixed in IE7 beta 2 compared to IE6 at Quirksmode. CSS compatibility table is an interesting read.
Not only that but if all pages whre following the W3C standards, it would me much easier to optimize a browsers renderer, and pages would render faster then they do these days...I don't want to think about all the extra IFs that goes into a browsers code just because of this...Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
- ØØ -
Well, atleast all of the modern browsers have "standards compliant mode" and "quirksmode" to ease that issue a good bit. Of course, if a browser could be sure it always gets valid data, it could be a lot faster. That is a fantasy in real life though, can't ever expect users to give valid code... and a browser often gets the blame even if the user (= someone who made the page) made the error :/
Microsoft's IE7 browser preview fails to impress
I don't think it's fair to write off the product before it's released, but I do think it's fair to say it's not shaping up to be anything more than mediocre at this point in time. It's good what they are doing to it but as I wrote on another forum they are really wasting their time with this release. They would be better served rewriting the rendering engine altogether - the codebase is old and can't cope with modern features. I guess they need something quickly to combat Firefox/Opera, but it is just going to set them back even more at this rate.
I guess I don't understand the need to compeit for a marketshare for a product that is free. IE is still going to be part of their OS, so what should it matter whether it is used or not. They aren't going to make any more or any less money.
That's what they thought over at Microsoft in the year 2001 and now we have other and much better browsers on the market. If you think about it, IE is not really free: it is part of the OS, thus it is part of the cost. You can't use or own IE if you don't buy Windows. It was Microsoft's choice to add a browser as a feature into their OS, so it is up to them also to keep it up to the requirements that are set for such a product.
So, which would be wiser for Microsoft: to completely drop IE or go on with the development, paying tons of money to the developers? What is the core reason Microsoft wants to have a browser in their OS? I can't really get any real good reason to my head at the moment. I guess I read some information and opinions about this sometime, but I can't remember them anymore.
Whatever the reason, Microsoft does care about the marketshare of their browser. I guess the old Netscape browser war did show that to us well enough :) If MS didn't care, they wouldn't have continued the development.
A lot of the user interface is displayed by the IE engine: the desktop, the file system, ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Merri
That explanation doesn't work:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the article penagate linked
What's the author's definition of standalone?
Probably "the OS will work without it". But guess we'll need to find some other source for that information to confirm it.
Don't know but IE 7 is not stand alone in the sense that Firefox or Opera is. Its component remain an integral part of the OS.
My guess is on the opposite: IE7 will run without the features of Vista. Oh, and Vista will be able to pretend that IE is not installed, although all relevant libraries are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merri
Just downloaded Opera 9.0 Preview 2.
They have added some firefox-like feature, like 'Tab Thumbnail Preview', Ctrl+T to open new tab.
It now supports a extension like feature - Widgets (it's nothing compared to Fx extension).
I think I have found a bug in it's GIF rendering engine. The timer messes up when you frequently scroll up/down and the image goes above/below viewable area.
(I have moved this post from other thread)
I just noticed that IE 7 is not supporting SVG either :rolleyes: If everyone in the world was like IE users, then we would still have black and white TV, if TV at all. Maybe just radio I guess.
more likely, just semaphore. :afrog:Quote:
Originally Posted by Invincible
I just want to add 10cents here. I have worked a lot more with web sites latey, and I have to say that I am soooo looking forward to when we can assume that people at least have IE 7. Because even if it is not great, it is sooo much better then IE 6, and it has fixed some serious bugs. It will be much easier to be a web designer when IE 7 is all over the place. Then again, if Fx or Opera was all over the place, it would be even better..:)
- ØØ -
LOL, what sites/programs do you use to download stuff? IE is as free as air is.Quote:
IE is not really free
IE is a part of Windows. Windows as such is not free. You buy Windows to be able to use IE and it is really really hard to get IE out of Windows.
And to proof this better: to be able to install IE7B2, you must have Windows that is activated, ie. proven to be paid of.
IE is free. Hence, BETA 2 is for download. You can also get all the other versions from IRC.
As Merri said, IE is only available as a part of windows (or a download for windows). As you must pay for windows, you are effectively paying for IE (whether or not you use it). Therefore Internet Explorer is not free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proggy_Dylan
I can download Microsoft Office, does that make it free? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Proggy_Dylan
we are talking LEGAL here, I dont care if you can download a cracked version of IE or windows, soon MS will not allow any download from microsoft.com unless you validate your OS there and then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proggy_Dylan
Here is an interesting article.
Yes since you can download Office from MS for free. Its a trial version but it is Office and it IS free. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Just download it from MS. They offer it for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proggy_Dylan
Buy Windows and you'll get IE free.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Buy a bicycle and you'll get a fish free. ;)
Or better yet:
Buy a bicycle and you can travel around the city every day for free.
(Although a bike needs maintainance and maybe an insurance as well...)
Buy Windows and you can browse around the web every day with IE/Firefox/Opera for free.
Download Linux and you can browse around the web every day with Firefox/Konqueror/Lynx/Links/Opera for free.
(Internet connections tend to cost something unless you can find a neighbour with an unprotected WLAN like I did. I use it at the moment because it is faster and more reliable than my DSL.)
I can get IE off the web for free, but I can't get free official human-to-human support for it.
I can get Firefox off the web for free and I can get free official human-to-human support for it.
(Links from official sources to support sites counted as official support.)
I can find addons for IE, but not all of them are free.
I can find extensions for Firefox and all of them are free.
(Afaik the most useful addons you can find for IE cost something.)
Although IE is free as itself to download, it always requires paying more for something to have it. Firefox is more free: if not counting the cost of a computer and the Internet connection, you can get Firefox, support and new features if a need be for it always completely free. Tell me if I'm wrong here.
Edit And as a late thing that came into my head: IE isn't an independent browser, it is much more like a component of the operating system.
FireFox is not blocking unwanted popups. Do I have to do something special? No better than IE...
Go to "Tools" -> "Options" -> "Content", and make sure the relevant box is ticked.
It is ticked - I still get some popups...
www.m-w.com
I dont get a popup there at all - no matter what browser/settings I have :confused:
Show us your settings?
What version do you have?
I have only 1.0.7 in Linux, and I get popups when I start clicking around. The reason is that first Firefox came with pop up blocking, then pages started to become smarter, and add popups when you interacted with pages. Then Fx 1.5 came and tightened it up again. Then pages started to become smarter again....it will always be a rase....one day it might be perfect though...but not right now.
Ohhh....Turn off JS... :afrog:
Or if you want to use JS, just get AdBlock Plus and Filterset updater and you don't need to care about most ads anymore.
I get a popup only when I lookup a definition. Did you try that, si?
Stop browsing porn sites and warez sites, and you'll get no popups :D http://noteme.com/vb_extension/smilies/ices_blah.png
Firefox has all the things IE has and then some... you want proof?? Look at the name
FIREFOX
:ehh:
www.m-w.com is a simple dictionary site. Not porn. I have noticed FF has _less_ popups than IE but still some get through. I can't turn off JS - I shouldn't have to.
I am just wondering if you have to do something special to make FF live up to all the hype.
to bring something up from the first page someone asked how can it fit in your hand, they have have portable firefox you can put on your jump drive that keeps all your bookmarks and themes and all those nice little things i have found it quite useful along with many of the other thing John T. Haller makes
But you know you're striking a wall here: as NoteMe already pointed out once, every time a browser vendor makes something to prevent popups, the popup makers invent a new way to display popups. The current method relies on Firefox to allow popups to be displayed when user clicks on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Sell
Of course there are people who tend to overadvertise and hype it over the roof, but that doesn't make Firefox any worse than it is. You also still have the choice of AdBlock Plus which can do the rest if there is still something you really want to block out.
NoScript extension can do blocking per site as well. It affects popups as they are displayed using JavaScript.
just checked that link in camino (with camiBlock) and i didn't see any popups.
IE can be set up in a similar fashion. For example I have been using "NOFLASH" for years to prevent all Flash media from downloading with web pages in IE. My surfing was never faster than with noflash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merri
I like FF and use it for VBF now exclusively. I am, however, sick to death of people freaking out over free software like FF, Linux, Java, MySQL, etc. I hear countless irrational arguments about how "free" software is far superior to M$ software. It quite frankly is not.
Fact: Linux with a GUI is less stable than winXP, it crashes more often.
Fact: MSSQL2K has superior performance to MySQL, on the order of 5-20 times faster.
Fact: VB is superior to Java for making GUIs of nearly any kind (performance and design time efforts).
All of the above facts I know by using benchmarks to prove to myself.
And FF, well great it has tabbed browsing. That is nice but certainly cannot qualify it as "far superior to IE". I use IE's OLE interface in my VB apps quite often. I use it for nearly all my web browsing. Why? Cause it f*ing works with all the sites I go to. I cannot say the same for FF.
And, PS, I have never used any anti-virus sw in the past 15 years and I have never had any worm/trojan/virus problems using IE. FF will leave you just as vulnerable to alot of problems, it can depend on how you use your computer... I do use Kerio PF.
Bravo Dave! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Sell