20 years :eek:
i think u should write a book on how 2 actually hold a marraige 2gether :)
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20 years :eek:
i think u should write a book on how 2 actually hold a marraige 2gether :)
Your marriage is only a few months younger than me :)
Congrats.
Thanks......LOL @ Harry!
Not sure I could write an entire book but, I think our marriage has lasted due to mutual respect, common goals..
and plenty of sex!
its my parents' 21st anniversary today :)
.... and seperated 6 years too ;)
I don't think China was too pissed about that one. notice that a few months later the Clinton Admin gave them the technology to launch rockets into space.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Blowing up the Chinese embassy in Belgrade? Sending missiles to India instead of Afghanistan? Do you think there is any difference between the magnitude of errors that could be involved?
I do. But then you are entitled to your opinion. :p
.
Even trade I guess?:rolleyes:
Oh yea, Congrats!!!!:D
its older than me :eek:Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Your marriage is only a few months younger than me :)
Congrats.
lol careful, katie might snap if she starts to feel the age ;)Quote:
Originally posted by ghost ryder
its older than me :eek:
Kovan
Islam is sexist because it gives different rights to men and women.
Sexism doesn't (always) have to be about favouring men over women, it can be the other way round.
You might (and do) argue that they have different needs and therefore have different rights. That has nothing to do with it. It is still sexist.
Your analogy with differing toilet facilities is laughable.
and you sir, have a stupid hat :)
sex·ism (skszm)Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
Kovan
Islam is sexist because it gives different rights to men and women.
Sexism doesn't (always) have to be about favouring men over women, it can be the other way round.
You might (and do) argue that they have different needs and therefore have different rights. That has nothing to do with it. It is still sexist.
Your analogy with differing toilet facilities is laughable.
n.
Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
dis·crim·i·nat·ing (d-skrm-ntng)
adj.
Able to recognize or draw fine distinctions; perceptive.
Showing careful judgment or fine taste: a discriminating collector of rare books; a dish for the discriminating palate.
Separating into distinct parts or components; analytical.
Serving to distinguish; distinctive: a discriminating characteristic.
Marked by or showing bias; discriminatory.
sorry but not according to the defination of "sexist"
source: www.dictionary.com
I think it's quite amusing that you see the toilet analogy as fitting. I think the difference is that if a woman (for some unkown reason) decides that she wants to pee standing up:confused: that she may....there are no rules saying she can't (other than the law of gravity) and will not be taken out and shot in the head in a public square for doing so....she will quickly be ushered to a psychologist instead;)
Anyway, I think you started this discussion by saying we (Americans) had no right to complain if we see people rejoicing in the streets over the death of a few thousand people or if we are hit by a biological attack. You somehow turned this into an anti-Islam discussion. I never attacked your religion. I was appalled by your statements. The things you said, I took exception to. I have issues with you. Don't distort what I say to suit your bias. On the same note, don't require me to agree with you. I am entitled to be appalled by what you say.
Jaimie...............I don't think I will ever feel the age....I'm having to much fun to notice I'm old.....so don't tell me okay?;)
*ahem*Quote:
Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
Fits like a glove IMHO.
In no way have i made it a requirement for you to agree with meQuote:
Originally posted by barrk
I think it's quite amusing that you see the toilet analogy as fitting. I think the difference is that if a woman (for some unkown reason) decides that she wants to pee standing up:confused: that she may....there are no rules saying she can't (other than the law of gravity) and will not be taken out and shot in the head in a public square for doing so....she will quickly be ushered to a psychologist instead;)
Anyway, I think you started this discussion by saying we (Americans) had no right to complain if we see people rejoicing in the streets over the death of a few thousand people or if we are hit by a biological attack. You somehow turned this into an anti-Islam discussion. I never attacked your religion. I was appalled by your statements. The things you said, I took exception to. I have issues with you. Don't distort what I say to suit your bias. On the same note, don't require me to agree with you. I am entitled to be appalled by what you say.
Jaimie...............I don't think I will ever feel the age....I'm having to much fun to notice I'm old.....so don't tell me okay?;)
and i believe ihave stated above that you are totally entitled to your opinion..
going back to the toilet analogy
if a women decides to piss while standing infront of a urinator...
she will make a MESS
and she should be resposible somehow for cleaning up that mess or dealing with the mess
so i would say that there is a hidden rule that women shouldnt piss standing :)
because i got a Di ck..
something you lack :)
what do you mean decent levelQuote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Let's keep it at a descent level. I know that's way above for you, but that's how it gotta be done.
So you say you are a man, huh?
.
i havent said anything
are you still at the gigling stage about that part of the human body?
does it piss you off?
am going home
good day
actually i just dont want to answer cus you want an answer :)
Which question HoneyBee?Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
tut, tut, your silence might sow the seeds of suspicion in some minds. Is it such a hard question that you can't reply in absolute Yes/No terms?
.
why doesn't akniselys title say banned?
congradumalations katie!
harry: the thing behind that is that the man gets more because he has to support the family, and give some to his wife. i think it makes sense tho.
but if the daughter needs it more, she can be given more. its flexible
Yes I know exactly what the reasons given according to Islam are, and I don't need like twenty people to explain it to me when I already know. I was just bringing it up to demonstrate that men and women are treated differently by Islamic law. I am not trying to make a point about whether I agree or disagree with it.
The fact is men and women are required by Islamic law to be treated differently.
Kovan was saying that Islam is not sexist. I am disagreeing, and the Islamic inheritance law is my grounds for that disagreement.
According to the definition of sexism Kovan himself provided, sexism can be defined as "attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender". That is one of the definitions of sexism. That is also exactly what is present in Islamic inheritance law.
Thus, Islam is fundamentally sexist.
In order to disprove this, either the description of inheritance law I was given is wrong, or Kovan's definition of sexism is wrong. Otherwise there is really no disputing that Islam is sexist.
I'm not criticising Islam here, just stating a fact.
ok, im not gonna get mad, coz ur not givin me a reason, for once someone isnt insulting islam or jumping 2 conclusions
anyways, it may appear sexist, but its not
it just treats them slighty diff :)Quote:
Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women
but its not that big of a deal, but if you look at it, its makes sense
it might be sexist, but only a little bit.
oh yeah, check out me 2 new projects:
http://user.7host.com/nabeels786/projects.asp
suggestions? comments?
Nabeels
Religion and advertising ... I think u might have hit on something ... I feel a strong urge to send money to Benny Hinn (sp?) :D
Ghost, that's the other definition. I am not saying it's discrimination against women (although I think there is grounds to argue that), I am saying it matches the other definition, the one you didn't quote.
Islamic law is clearly making discriminating (ie acting differently depending on) based on gender.
That is sexist.
There is really no arguing against this, Kovan has given clear definitions which are fit perectly by the Islamic inheritance law as described by Kovan and others.
If you are attaching negativity to the word 'sexist' and feel you must defend your religion against what I'm saying, that's a problem with you. I am simply stating the fact that Islam is sexist based on a very simple yet conclusive set of evidence.
Hehe sorry...i made that post late at night:pQuote:
Originally posted by nishantp
I find it rather amusing that you assumed i was in India (didnt my style of english tell you anything?). While i have an Indian heritage, I was born, razed, and am living, in Canada just like you I believe. Also...India is quite powerful for a nation as poor as it is.
if you read all the defination of sexist i postedQuote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Ghost, that's the other definition. I am not saying it's discrimination against women (although I think there is grounds to argue that), I am saying it matches the other definition, the one you didn't quote.
Islamic law is clearly making discriminating (ie acting differently depending on) based on gender.
That is sexist.
There is really no arguing against this, Kovan has given clear definitions which are fit perectly by the Islamic inheritance law as described by Kovan and others.
If you are attaching negativity to the word 'sexist' and feel you must defend your religion against what I'm saying, that's a problem with you. I am simply stating the fact that Islam is sexist based on a very simple yet conclusive set of evidence.
you would notice one that said "biased"
Islam is in no way biased
it all depends on how you define SEXIST
Yes, one of them says biased. 'Sexist' can mean any of the definitions given. That's how dictionaries work.
That's how a '******' can be either a girly shirt-lifter or a bundle of small sticks :rolleyes:
over here, ****** is used to refer to a homo-sexualQuote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Yes, one of them says biased. 'Sexist' can mean any of the definitions given. That's how dictionaries work.
That's how a '******' can be either a girly shirt-lifter or a bundle of small sticks :rolleyes:
If you ****ing retarded 5 year olds don't stop SHITTING ON MY MOTHER****ING THREAD I'm going to delete this thread. :mad: :mad: :mad:
do it
:)
Interestingly enough, ****** also refers to a kind of hair clip or old British slang for cigarettes.
I can't possibly delete all the anti-AK stuff, so I'm going to have Martin or another mod close it.Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
do it
:)
your the one threatening
just do it :)
I know!! What did you think a 'girly shirt-lifter' was?!Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
over here, ****** is used to refer to a homo-sexual
Anyway the point is, according to a dictionary definition of 'sexist', Islam is sexist. I am not saying that's a bad thing, I just want to see you admit that you were wrong when you said it wasn't sexist. You regularly say you will admit as soon as you realize you've been mistaken, and I am so far not convinced you were telling the truth.
LOL Progeix :D
And it baffles me to think that a thread about banning aknisely turns into this..:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
I know!! What did you think a 'girly shirt-lifter' was?!
Anyway the point is, according to a dictionary definition of 'sexist', Islam is sexist. I am not saying that's a bad thing, I just want to see you admit that you were wrong when you said it wasn't sexist. You regularly say you will admit as soon as you realize you've been mistaken, and I am so far not convinced you were telling the truth.
according to the SAME dictioary, Islam is not sexistQuote:
Originally posted by HarryW
I know!! What did you think a 'girly shirt-lifter' was?!
Anyway the point is, according to a dictionary definition of 'sexist', Islam is sexist. I am not saying that's a bad thing, I just want to see you admit that you were wrong when you said it wasn't sexist. You regularly say you will admit as soon as you realize you've been mistaken, and I am so far not convinced you were telling the truth.
refering to the "biased" comment
You're not the only oneQuote:
Originally posted by jpbtennisman
LOL Progeix :D
And it baffles me to think that a thread about banning aknisely turns into this..:confused:
I'm referring you to what I said a little earlier. It gives clearly the definition I am using.Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Yes I know exactly what the reasons given according to Islam are, and I don't need like twenty people to explain it to me when I already know. I was just bringing it up to demonstrate that men and women are treated differently by Islamic law. I am not trying to make a point about whether I agree or disagree with it.
The fact is men and women are required by Islamic law to be treated differently.
Kovan was saying that Islam is not sexist. I am disagreeing, and the Islamic inheritance law is my grounds for that disagreement.
According to the definition of sexism Kovan himself provided, sexism can be defined as "attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender". That is one of the definitions of sexism. That is also exactly what is present in Islamic inheritance law.
Thus, Islam is fundamentally sexist.
In order to disprove this, either the description of inheritance law I was given is wrong, or Kovan's definition of sexism is wrong. Otherwise there is really no disputing that Islam is sexist.
I'm not criticising Islam here, just stating a fact.
Kovan, please, be reasonable. It doesn't have to conform to every single definition of sexist to be sexist. You are talking about one particular definition which you say doesn't match, but that's not the definition I'm using to demonstrate that Islam is sexist, I am using the definition "attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender".
Not every definition has to be true. Really. Honestly. I'm not lying here. Not every defintion has to be matched.
Take the example of a bundle of small sticks. If you look in the dictionary under the word ****** you get different definitions:
1 - A bundle of twigs, sticks, or branches bound together
2 - Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man
A bundle of sticks bound together is a ****** even though it is not a homosexual man. Not every definition needs to apply for it to be a ******.
Similarly, only one of these definitions needs to apply to Islam to make it sexist:
1 - Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2 - Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
Definition 2 applies, and whether or not definition 1 applies is irrelevant.
Kovan, I know you're not stupid. I know you can understand all this because it's simple. I just want to see you demonstrate that you aren't just a stubborn git that won't admit when he's wrong :rolleyes:
no i dont think i am being unreasonable
i dont see how you find islam to be sexist
your telling me that its irrelevant of what the dictionary says
what do i use to prove that islam is NOT sexist?
i still dont see it
call me what ever you want
i dont think i have anything to admit
if i did, i would have admited it a while ago
maybe we are not undrestanding each other
you claim islamic is sexist
prove it
HarryW
shall we bring a mediator?
honeybee i am what i am
Just thouhgt I'd mention something about those people celebrating in the street. I heard that that footage that was released was of something completely different, and had nothing whatsoever to do with the bombings.
It was released by the military or something, and everyone assumed that it was people celebrating over the WTC+Pentagon bombings.
Just a thought :)
Harry
I think you are making sense, if it's any consilation.Quote:
Somebody else please answer me a question, not Kovan because he's clearly got it in his head that he is infallible and can't ever be wrong. Does anybody else think I'm making sense? Does anybody else think Kovan's actually right about this and not just being stubborn?
He doesn't like the connetations associated with the word sexism so he would admit it to be associated with Islam over his dead body.
Kovan
If it makes it any easier for you to admit that Islam is sexist, what about if we re-phrased it like this:
"Islam contains some rules which are sexist."
Would it also help if you realised that we're not singling out Islam here. I will readilly admit that Jewdaism has sexist elements and I'm sure Christianity does too.
As you have said many times before, Islam has not changed much over the years (where religions like Christianity have). This is one of the reasons why it seems to stand out as being sexist because it still reflects many old fashioned values that come from an age where sexism was considered more acceptable.
Might I interject here ? Thank-you.
Being sexist isnt always a bad thing.
Yes it does have very bad connotations, but its not always bad.
For example, having men and women compete seperately in sports is being sexist. You are discrimenating (in a strictly differential sense) between the two sexes.
There's nothing necessarily wrong with that.
So I think the reason kovan may not be admitting that whatever religion you're all talking about is sexist, is becaue its probably being perceived as being an insult.
More than likely most people are using it as an insult but thats beside the point.
So perhaps the religion is sexist, if indeed there are different rules for men and women, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.
Exactly Jamie, I'm not criticising Islam as I've said however many million times by now. I'm just stating a simple fact that is clearly shown by the evidence - evidence which Kovan himself has provided.
Kovan, I have give you proof. You have chosen to ignore it. The proof is in the dictionary definition you provided. I am not telling you not to use the dictionary, I am telling you how the dictionary proves that Islam is sexist, but you are for some reason unwilling to use the dictionary properly.
Before I can explain it to you, you're going to have to actually learn something. You need to understand how dictionaries work. How their definitions apply. If a situation matches ANY of the definitions given in the dictionary for a particular word, then that word applies to the situation.
Before you can move on to comprehending that Islam is sexist it seems you need to figure out how dictionaries work.
Okay, assuming at this point you've had some kind of moment of clarity and seen that a bundle of sticks bound together can be called a ******, even though it's not a homosexual man, maybe you'll be able to make the simple step to seeing that Islam can be considered sexist because it discriminates (ie it acts differently depending on) based on gender.
Definition 2, as I wrote earlier, very clearly applies to Islam. Since only one definition needs to apply in order to use the word sexist, it's very clear that we can now apply that word to Islam.
Islam has some rules that apply only to men and some rules that apply only to women. This is not under dispute. The fact that it treats men and women differently means it discriminates between men and women. That's very clear. Discrimination based on gender is also known as sexism. This is not a huge feat of logic.
Kovan, it is simply not possible for this to be explained any more clearly. If you still don't understand I'm just going to conclude that it's because you don't want to understand.
i didnt think that anyone on earth (well a few psycho's, but not that many people) could celebrate blatant murder
and it was obvious when u think about it, the day after, there was no celebrating, they were quiet coz they pry found out what had happened
typical media response, make islam look bad, hey, its been happenin a long time, were used to it :)
and plenderj, that makes some sense :)
Ghost Ryder
Are you suggesting that the street celebtrations in Palestine (that following the WTC attack) should not have been shown in order to protect the image of Islam?Quote:
typical media response, make islam look bad, hey, its been happenin a long time, were used to it
We, in the West, have a free media and they report what they want (and not what the government tells them to do).
What I heard was that the response you saw there was nothing to do with the bombings in the us.
we in the west??
i am in the west too, dork :)
and i was replying to plenderj's comment that they may not have been celebrating the WTC attacks, and if this is true, then fine, show them, but EXPLAIN what they are doin, coz that gave islam a BAD image and could have been a large catalyst for racist attacks in the USA coz it placed a link between muslims and the attack, the media should be more careful, coz IF they were celebratin sumthin else, then the media has demonised them for no reason
Ghost Ryder
I know you are "in the west", I was simply stating that western media is not controlled by the government and they can (and do) report what they like.
I do agree, however, that they should not have given the impression that these palestinian celebrations were related to the WTC if, indeed, they were not.
What I believe gives Islam a bad name is the terrorists and fanatics that associate themselves with an otherwise peaceful religion; Islam.
Islam should do all it can to distance itself from these people.
As far as I know it was the israeli military/police that released those videos of people celebrating.
i know, but the media has always given islam a hard time, dont deny it, coz its true, and while idiots like bin laden give islam a bad name, the media dont always distinguish between the too, and often aid in the processQuote:
Originally posted by simonm
Ghost Ryder
What I believe gives Islam a bad name is the terrorists and fanatics that associate themselves with an otherwise peaceful religion; Islam.
Islam should do all it can to distance itself from these people.
I wouldn't claim for one moment t hat Islam has always been represented fairly and without bias in the media.Quote:
i know, but the media has always given islam a hard time, dont deny it, coz its true, and while idiots like bin laden give islam a bad name, the media dont always distinguish between the too, and often aid in the process
But, many people, organisations, races, religions and groups have also been given a hard time by the media. Islam isn't singled out for misrepresentation.
I do believe, however, that western media has been a lot more open that much of the media in middle eastern countries where blatant anti-american proporgander has been touted as truth.
We all have a lot to learn about each other and the media of both cultures has done little to help the ignorance that is widespread. Both cultures need to gain a wider understanding of each other.
I remember some time ago you describing Bin Laden as a "freedom fighter," or some such thing. Not an idiot, or a murderer. A hero to you.Quote:
Originally posted by ghost ryder
and while idiots like bin laden give islam a bad name, the media dont always distinguish between the too, and often aid in the process
I believe that was actually abdul or kovan not GR.....I could be wrong though.
my undrestanding is,Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Exactly Jamie, I'm not criticising Islam as I've said however many million times by now. I'm just stating a simple fact that is clearly shown by the evidence - evidence which Kovan himself has provided.
Kovan, I have give you proof. You have chosen to ignore it. The proof is in the dictionary definition you provided. I am not telling you not to use the dictionary, I am telling you how the dictionary proves that Islam is sexist, but you are for some reason unwilling to use the dictionary properly.
Before I can explain it to you, you're going to have to actually learn something. You need to understand how dictionaries work. How their definitions apply. If a situation matches ANY of the definitions given in the dictionary for a particular word, then that word applies to the situation.
Before you can move on to comprehending that Islam is sexist it seems you need to figure out how dictionaries work.
Okay, assuming at this point you've had some kind of moment of clarity and seen that a bundle of sticks bound together can be called a ******, even though it's not a homosexual man, maybe you'll be able to make the simple step to seeing that Islam can be considered sexist because it discriminates (ie it acts differently depending on) based on gender.
Definition 2, as I wrote earlier, very clearly applies to Islam. Since only one definition needs to apply in order to use the word sexist, it's very clear that we can now apply that word to Islam.
Islam has some rules that apply only to men and some rules that apply only to women. This is not under dispute. The fact that it treats men and women differently means it discriminates between men and women. That's very clear. Discrimination based on gender is also known as sexism. This is not a huge feat of logic.
Kovan, it is simply not possible for this to be explained any more clearly. If you still don't understand I'm just going to conclude that it's because you don't want to understand.
if dictionary defination simply says something like "treating differently (but equally) is sexist" then one can conclude based on THAT dictionary that Islam is sexist
however, my defination of discrimination or sexist
is favouring one gender over another
i give up
i cant get my point across to you
i used the SAME dictionary defination (4.)
that said "biased", when the word biased is introduced, than this is far from Islam
i had enough of this
i dont think we can come to an agreement