Official: George W Bush is Stupidest President in 50 Years

"Chretien was the best canidate among all that ran"

Are you drunk, or stoned, or insane? That's like saying, "Man, this pile of **** is much better than all the other piles of ****."

"that Day guy is just STUPID, nothing but pure stupid"

No, he's actually a very intelligent person. The problem with Day is two-fold: a) he jumped head-first into federal politics, right from his position in the Alberta cabinet, something that had disaster written all over it; and b) he was assassinated by those 12 dissident members.

"so what if he paid 60 000"

So what? Let's say your boss comes up and tells you, "You charged too much money to the company health insurance plan, you have to pay it back or you're fired." You pay the money, then find out that in a few weeks you're fired for charging the money, even though you did your best to pay it back.

"he messed up, why should canadians have to pay for his mistakes"

Describe this.

"liberal all the way"

You live out east, right?

Nishantp,

"Everyone followed him because of his charm, not his policies. I think we need someone like that to get rid of Jean there."

Everyone disagrees with how some guy runs the government. That's how politics and democracy works, you can't please everyone no matter how hard you try. The problem I have with Chretien is that his government ignores western Canada, and he's come very close to being insulting and rude to us who live there.

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No, he's actually a very intelligent person. The problem with Day is two-fold: a) he jumped head-first into federal politics, right from his position in the Alberta cabinet, something that had disaster written all over it; and b) he was assassinated by those 12 dissident members.

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no, he messed up HUGE
so those members no longer wanted to be under a leader that was racist

your jew, you should know this

he tried to do what is happening in US
the fact that the politicians sided with jews

he was doing horrible, as soon as he sided with the jews on the thought that he might gain more popularity
he went downhill
he is being going downhill since

"no, he messed up HUGE so those members no longer wanted to be under a leader that was racist"

I don't think that he was a racist. Furthermore, if the members didn't like Day, they could have easily left the party without making turning their problems into something that destroyed both Day and the Alliance party.

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Originally posted by aknisely
"no, he messed up HUGE so those members no longer wanted to be under a leader that was racist"

I don't think that he was a racist. Furthermore, if the members didn't like Day, they could have easily left the party without making turning their problems into something that destroyed both Day and the Alliance party.

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Aliance was destroyed WAY before the members left
when they left
they just broke what was there

I am very very glad, i never liked aliance and their tactics

specially the 2 tier health care
if i love one thing in this country, thats got to be the health care

"I am very very glad, i never liked aliance and their tactics"

Then what the hell do you care?

"specially the 2 tier health care if i love one thing in this country, thats got to be the health care"

Fine, have your free health care. But if I want to spend a little extra to get my surgery faster, why the hell is that bad?

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Originally posted by aknisely
"I am very very glad, i never liked aliance and their tactics"

Then what the hell do you care?

"specially the 2 tier health care if i love one thing in this country, thats got to be the health care"

Fine, have your free health care. But if I want to spend a little extra to get my surgery faster, why the hell is that bad?

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well thats what you wanted, but the rest of canadians didnt think so
so thats why they didnt vote for 2 tier health care

health care is for poor and rich
rich shouldnt be treated better because they have more money
simple as that

if you want faster surgeory, hire a private surgeon with YOUR own money, not task payers

and why do i care? i care because i dont like to see racist politicians in power, and neither do i want to see this country go down into the hands of jews

"thats what you wanted, but the rest of canadians didnt think so
so thats why they didnt vote for 2 tier health care"

There was no vote for 2-tier health care. Besides, why should you be allowed to tell me what I can do with my money if it doesn't affect you?

"health care is for poor and rich rich shouldnt be treated better because they have more money simple as that"

Of course we should. Rich people can eat steak and potatoes every day, poor people eat Kraft Dinner. Rich people drive BMW's, poor people can have Celebrities. Why should medicine be any different?

"if you want faster surgeory, hire a private surgeon with YOUR own money, not task payers"

That's the whole bloody idea. Paying private institutions for insured services is illegal in Canada.

"and why do i care? i care because i dont like to see racist politicians in power"

Seeing as how many of your posts here are generously complimented with racist remarks -- or at least, remarks which you hope would bring about a racist flame war -- I hardly think you have any serious opinion about racism.

The Alliance and stockwell day were NOT proposing a two-tier health system. The liberals simply branded it that, and you listened like cattle. Cant you think for yourself?? The public health care system would still exist!! No one is saying the poor cant have health care. The problem is that right now, no matter how rich you are, you CANNOT hire your own surgeon in this county. IT IS ILLEGAL. That is what the alliance wanted to eliminate. They wanted to open up the health care system to the private sector. This would also provide better service to the poor, because the strain on the public system would ease considerably.

Absolutely. It's like welfare. I have absolutely no problem with people drawing from welfare -- if people can take six months from worrying about bills and food while they find a decent job, that's fantastic. But the healthcare system as it stands now would be like everyone having to draw from welfare, and no one is allowed to get a job to live better than how the state dictates.

no matter how you go about it
aliance didnt get in power
and they are going downhill
which is exactly what makes me happy

2 tiers, or not
i like liberals in power, they been doing a good job so far
hope they get elected again
i know i will vote for them AGAIN

thanks to us ontarians, we keep racist people out of power

"i like liberals in power, they been doing a good job so far"

What, exactly, has the Government of Canada done for you in the past seven years?

"hope they get elected again i know i will vote for them AGAIN"

I seriously doubt that you're old enough to vote.

Is there anything you two won't fight about?????:confused:

i still have free health care
thats good enough

aliance will take it to 2 tier, then it will be ONE TIER

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Originally posted by barrk
Is there anything you two won't fight about?????:confused:

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probably not

"Is there anything you two won't fight about????"

Miss, we aren't fighting. We're arguing.

" i still have free health care thats good enough"

Well, it's not good enough for me. I need better health care. If you want to have your long surgery waiting times and piss-poor quality hospitals, that's fine by me. But don't you dare try to tell me that I have to live with it.

"aliance will take it to 2 tier, then it will be ONE TIER"

Explain this.

"probably not"

Why? Do you like picking fights?

i do not like picking fights
i am simply stating my opinions on aliance

aliance will make it one tier like so..
first they will introduce 2 tier, using government money of course so that rich can get better health care
after a while
they will say "you want health care at all, pay for it, we are gonna do what US does"


free health care is good for me
i do not have millions of dollars to get surgeory
i pay some tax, hoping some day that tax will be used pay for something i MIGHT use

"thanks to us ontarians, we keep racist people out of power"

Justify this comment. Is Stock Day racist just cause he admits to being a christian?? When will you get it through your head that they are not proposing 2-tier health care!! Jeez man someday your going to need help BAD. And your going to have to wait in line at the emergency room, the life slowly bleeding from your body. Then you'll realize that partially privatized health care could have solved the problem. The rich can pay for there own health care if they wish, leaving the public system to the poor. Answer me, does this not make sense?

"first they will introduce 2 tier, using government money of course so that rich can get better health care"

What are you talking about? Health care in this country is privatized, but it only allows funding to come from the government. Doctors offices, hospitals, clinics, everything, they're private facilities that merely bill the government for their services. Right now, we're in the one-tier that you propose the Alliance will do. Isn't the one-tier the thing that you want?

"they will say 'you want health care at all, pay for it, we are gonna do what US does.'"

You're assuming a lot here. What makes you think the Alliance would do this?

"free health care is good for me i do not have millions of dollars to get surgeory"

Good for you. I want to spend money on my own surgery. Why won't you let me?

"i pay some tax, hoping some day that tax will be used pay for something i MIGHT use"

Likewise, I'll pay private insurance.

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Originally posted by nishantp
"thanks to us ontarians, we keep racist people out of power"

Justify this comment. Is Stock Day racist just cause he admits to being a christian?? When will you get it through your head that they are not proposing 2-tier health care!! Jeez man someday your going to need help BAD. And your going to have to wait in line at the emergency room, the life slowly bleeding from your body. Then you'll realize that partially privatized health care could have solved the problem. The rich can pay for there own health care if they wish, leaving the public system to the poor. Answer me, does this not make sense?

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not because he admits his christian, that never bothered me
what bothered me is with the incident that he put ALL the blame on palestianians, and we know where that took him

rich can pay for their health care and poor can use the public system, all good

however, as soon as this happens, there will be no public health care, they will simply draw all the money out, and leave the poor in the dark

Aknisely...we both know that rational arguments dont work on Kovan...:rolleyes:

Perhaps you could find quotes of him putting "all the blame on palestianians[sic]"? Also, why is that racist?

"rich can pay for their health care and poor can use the public system, all good"

Of course it's "all good." What the hell have we been saying?

"however, as soon as this happens, there will be no public health care, they will simply draw all the money out, and leave the poor in the dark"

Why would this happen?

"Aknisely...we both know that rational arguments dont work on Kovan..."

I know, but it's fun to try... :)

Sorry, but what topic are you talking about right now because I don't want to go over all the previous posts again:D

We're talking about private health care.

Kovan thought that it was the most terrible thing on the planet, but now thinks otherwise.

Myself and Nishantp think that laws restricting private health care in Canada (namely the Canada Health Act) should be lifted.

Well, that was a most illuminating insight into Canadian politics! :rolleyes:

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Kovan thought that it was the most terrible thing on the planet, but now thinks otherwise.

Myself and Nishantp think that laws restricting private health care in Canada (namely the Canada Health Act) should be lifted.

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I know very little about the Canadian health care system but can I assume every one contributes into a national insurance scheme? If this is the case, and they allow people to opt out of national health care, will those people still have to contribute to this scheme? If not then that will undermine the scheme for all those who cannot afford to opt out.

I don't see that they can reduce somebody's tax burden simply because they insure themselves against certain things - that's a matter of personal choice. It's actually likely that their insurance premiums will be taxed as well.

I have private medical insurance, and I still pay the full whack for National Insurance and all other taxes.

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I don't see that they can reduce somebody's tax burden simply because they insure themselves against certain things - that's a matter of personal choice.

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It's not a matter of reducing the tax burden. It could be argued that if they pay for their own health care, why should they contribute to the national insurance scheme (that is designed to pay for the national health service)?

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I have private medical insurance, and I still pay the full whack for National Insurance and all other taxes.

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That's the way it is in the UK but I didn't know if it was like that in Canada.

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(By Simon)
It could be argued that if they pay for their own health care, why should they contribute to the national insurance scheme (that is designed to pay for the national health service)?

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Maybe the health insurance company they pay will go bankrupt the day before they have a heart attack? (yeah right, an insurance company losing money ;))

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(By Kovan)
i dont like to see racist politicians in power, and neither do i want to see this country go down into the hands of jews

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This is a racist statement in itself, I don't think you are in a position to criticise anyone for being racist.

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Originally posted by simonm
It could be argued that if they pay for their own health care, why should they contribute to the national insurance scheme (that is designed to pay for the national health service)?

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But that's the start of a slippery slope. What about people whose children go to private schools, or people who don't have any children. Should they be exempt from contributing towards education? Or someone who has never been unemployed - should they fund the unemployment benefit system?

Obviously, I'd rather pay less tax. It galls me a tad that my company has gone to the trouble of arranging private medical insurance for me and my family, and not only do I still pay NI, but I also get taxed on the payment my company makes to BUPA. The principle of taxation, though, has always been that the many should fund the few.

Oh, and Harry? Most insurance companies are currently losing money by the bucketload.

BTW - Am I the only one who finds Kovan both ridiculous and slightly scary?

(it was a small joke)

Whew were going all over the place here.

"What about people whose children go to private schools, or people who don't have any children."

People who dont have children still pay education taxes, but in the province of Ontario, tax exemptions for parents who send their kids to private schools are being debated.

"BTW - Am I the only one who finds Kovan both ridiculous and slightly scary?"

Not at all:rolleyes: ..."i dont like to see racist politicians in power, and neither do i want to see this country go down into the hands of jews" -Kovan

I think that people should have to pay taxed on health care even if they choose not to use it. And that choice need not be written in stone, either. I could still use the public system to get regular check ups...but suppose i needed an MRI because my doctor says theres a chance i have cancer. In Canada (most parts anyways...) there is a HUGE waiting list for MRIs. Months if not years. So suppose i dont want to wait that long, and i want to have it done with my own money (the fairness issue left aside), why shouldnt i be allowed? Not only will i have an earlier diagnosis (which may save my life) but the waiting list in the public system will be one shorter.

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I know very little about the Canadian health care system but can I assume every one contributes into a national insurance scheme?

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According to the Canada Health Act, the individual provinces are required to fund medicare, with support from the federal government. Some provinces fund their ministry in different ways. In the province of Alberta, where I live, we each pay about $30 per month for health premiums, which amounts to about $700 million per year. The rest of the money comes from the tax base. Anyone who can't afford the premiums is written off, since it has to be universal.

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If this is the case, and they allow people to opt out of national health care, will those people still have to contribute to this scheme?

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In terms of taxes, yes.

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If not then that will undermine the scheme for all those who cannot afford to opt out.

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But you can't "opt-out" of the system. Whether you pay for it or not, you have to use the public medicare system. It is illegal for someone to offer privately-funded insured services in Canada.

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t's not a matter of reducing the tax burden. It could be argued that if they pay for their own health care, why should they contribute to the national insurance scheme (that is designed to pay for the national health service)?

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Even if we do get some private health care going here, I won't mind contributing to the public system. Of course, we'll be entitled to a substantial tax cut because the burden on the health system would be so much lighter. But the public system has to exist for the poor, so it still has to be funded. It's like welfare. I'm probably never going to make direct use out of welfare, but I have no problem paying taxes for the welfare system.

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Originally posted by aknisely
We're talking about private health care.

Kovan thought that it was the most terrible thing on the planet, but now thinks otherwise.

Myself and Nishantp think that laws restricting private health care in Canada (namely the Canada Health Act) should be lifted.

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I agree with that. There should be no restriction on private health care in Canada because people are gonna pay their own money and there is no disadvantage in it for the government.

Of course there's disadvantage to the government. Any politician who dares mention private healthcare on television is committing suicide because, for some reason, private health care is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to Canada. The media and special interest (communist) groups have turned the people of Canada into thinking that underfunded, overwasteful health care is the way to go, and anything else is absolutely horrid.

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Originally posted by aknisely
Of course there's disadvantage to the government. Any politician who dares mention private healthcare on television is committing suicide because, for some reason, private health care is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to Canada. The media and special interest (communist) groups have turned the people of Canada into thinking that underfunded, overwasteful health care is the way to go, and anything else is absolutely horrid.

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True. The liberals brand any system with the slightest bit of privatization a 2-tier system, even though it really isnt (*cough* Kovan *cough*).

But it is (well, will be) a 2-tier system. We have the one tier, where I get to pay for it out of my pocket, and the two tier, where the tax payers as a whole get to pay for it. The problem is that 2-tier is probably the one phrase that makes everyone's stomach turn.

well true, it would be 2-tier...but i dont know why people balk at it so much. If they would think a bit they'd see that it could only do good. Our health system as it is now is on the verge of collapse.

Hence, why I'm moving to New England soon.

New England?? Eeeeeeeeewwwwww. BTW whats up with that "Former Lead Programmer" thing in your sig?

What, "New England Eww"???? I loved it there. You can't make me change my mind.

My project was refused by Alberta Justice. Apparently, they have "certified" programmers who are "employed" by the government. Nuts to them:). Off to bigger and better things, I guess...

Bummer. Oh well. When you're earning 150K, go back there in your Mercedes and pay them a visit:D