Ok. I'd be fine with that, too, but how does that have anything to do with arrows starting fires?
Printable View
Ok. I'd be fine with that, too, but how does that have anything to do with arrows starting fires?
Your loss...we will still save you from the bad guys again though.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
You and those cheese eating surrender monkeys across the channel :D
That happens here all the time - especially in cities where guns are strictly illegal, but our national media tend ignore every instance of inner city violence. Apparently American gun violence is only considered newsworthy when a demented white guy shoots up a suburban school, theater, or shopping center.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
CSB: I happen to be a recovering member of the news media (you're never fully cured) and was once ordered to stop reporting on the rampant gang/drug violence in a local housing project because it was "scaring" our readers.
That's pretty much sums up a majority of gun crime in the US as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
Must have been an assault bow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I remember when I was in the Air Cadets. We would occasionally go shooting (is that an option now?). I loved it! It was rifles, of course. An SLR, british 303 and a 22 rifle of some kind. I recall the anal retentiveness about people being on the firing line, then they would open up the ammunition locker, count out rounds to each person. They would then make sure they counted the brass casings back into the locker.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
I do honestly pity people in Britain. Having been assaulted and robbed in the UK several times, the only thing you can do is to come to terms with the fact that some people hold power over you and there is not a dmned thing you can do about it. But the reality is that courts and society do value your life less. But, life is more than just breathing air. I never really understood what the potential for life really is until I flew the Gilded Cage and came to the US.
You also have to realize that it's not just about guns. While guns are pretty damned good fun to those that like that sort of thing, it is also what they represent; and what they represent to other people. While a firearm is portrayed as an instrument of death - indeed, may liberals harp on the fact that 'a gun is primarily designed to kill someone or something' - and yet they are surprised, sunned and horrified when a gun [sic] has done just that. The real tragedy is the numerous everyday tools designed to NOT kill, maim or injure do just that, in far greater numbers than guns.
Honestly, it's not possible to explain the fascination of a powerful device to those who have never experienced it. I mean, look at the Honda owners clubs and the detail and lengths that go into their autos: Jesus H Christ, it's just a car! And a Honda, no less! People get into all sorts of things for different reasons (I'm sure there are Honda drivers that actually use their cars to simply drive to and from work, and use it as a matter of convenience).
Remember, when you come to the US, if you are in the majority of states, in a public place you may be surrounded by guns - or you may not. You will never know.
Unless you support the right to arm bears, I'm generally not surrounded by guns because of a lack of people.
The one thing that surprises me about the whole thing is the vociferous argument about requiring some training or licensing of gun owners. It is a device designed to kill, whereas a car is a device designed to transport. Both are quite effective at killing, but only one requires any significant license. We have ample evidence (correlation, not proof) that classes on hunting have reduced the incedence of accidental shootings and greatly improved the ethical considerations around hunting. You pretty much have to be trained if you want to use a gun to shoot a deer, but you don't need squat if you want to use a gun to shoot a person. That doesn't make sense to me.
Of course, it doesn't help with the news issue. That's all a man-bites-dog kind of a thing: If it happens a LOT, there's virtually no coverage. A person dying in a car accident barely makes the local news. A person dying in a boating accident around here (whitewater rafting) will certainly make the local news, and may be repeated a few times and there may be a few details. A plane crash, on the other hand, will make national news and may go on for a couple days (it's been a few years since a major commercial jet crash in the US). A nutcase shooting up a school will be on the news for weeks. There's no reasonable way to prevent things like that because they are SO rare that the false positives would dwarf the true finds for any test or restriction real or proposed. On the other hand, if you are so angry/depressed that you want to give the world the biggest, most visible, finger you possibly can....well, you have a blueprint on how to get the most exposure.
I'm not in favor of censorship of the press, but we'd probably be better off if school shootings got no more press than a car crash.
I don't like to think of it as a "fascination with guns" but the U.S. is a relatively new nation with close ties to guns throughout its short history. From the revolutionary war and the constitution protecting the right to own firearms, Indian wars, hunting for food and a living, the civil war, conquering the west, and so on Americans and guns are closely tied. As a side note I’m not making any statements about fighting the Indians, just that it happened.
In many ways guns are considered a tool. Maybe now that is a bit of an anachronism but I think it partly explains why many in the U.S. consider owning guns second nature.
I’m originally from western Pennsylvania. Everyone I knew growing up owned guns and many were on display in racks and cabinets in the living rooms. That is the way it was and I still stick with it. Times are changing and maybe that will go by the wayside. For now though I currently own four guns. About fifteen years ago I had well over forty, had a FFL, and it was quite a hobby for me. Most of my spare time was at gun shows and on the ranges.
How did it go getting that ammo?Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
As a side note, if anyone here is an NRA instructor CrimsonTrace gives discounts on their products.
I have no idea what FFL stands for, and I can't be bothered to think to much about it in context. Therefore, in the best internet tradition I'm going to make up my own meaning for that TLA and respond to that meaning in some way. Let's see....I think I'll go with French Female Lover, and say: That can be an expensive hobby to maintain from western PA.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
:rolleyes: Federal Firearms Licence. It allows you to sell guns to the general public. I should add "legally sell guns"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
My definition is better.
Probably more fun anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I haven't had a chance to buy it yet. Going this weekend probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Will your shopping list be considered a bulleted list?
Are you going to buy ammo in round numbers?
You might have to wait around for them to get a new shipment, in which case you could be casing the casing joint. After all, they only get more when they 'get a round' to it.
I still think you should get a shotgun, then find some sleazy ammo peddler. That way you can shell to the shill who's shilling shells.
Gotta go.
I think in each case he'll get more bang for his buck...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Well, if he's into deer hunting, he should really practice up on his aiming. That way, he'll be able to get more buck for his bang.
This one wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Yes...bang up job and right on target.Quote:
Originally Posted by dclamp
I don't think aiming is that important for deer hunting, and who would want to hunt deer anyway??? On the other hand having a really good aim is essential for alligator hunting as the skull design makes the target very small, miss it and you'll get a face full of bone fragments or shrapnel!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Deer hunting is huge in certain parts of the U.S. If you need to know why let me know. Also aim is always important if you want to minimize suffering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Aim is important if you care about what you hit....unless you hunt in certain areas I know about where you can walk right up to the deer, but there's no hunting in those areas for various reasons.
As for why somebody would want to hunt a deer: I don't know the answer to that. I've tried deer from various parts of the country, along with elk, moose, bear, and a variety of other game. You can make deer palatable, in my opinion, but it's not something I'd seek out.
Ok, why do you like to hunt deer???Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Do you have to shoot it yourself or go to a hunting reservation to get a sit down meal of venison, or can you pick some out from your local butcher/supermarket???Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I don't hunt, myself, for no reason that can be summed up here. I tried a couple times, then gave up. It basically comes down to there not being enough days in a life to cover all the things that can be done, so I just set my priorities in other places. However, I have lots of friends that hunt, and people seem oddly willing to share a deer (maybe nobody else is all that thrilled with venison, either). I wouldn't bother hunting deer, anyways, because I've never found them to be very good. Elk is much better, and moose is terrific, but hunting moose is pretty restricted.
In the eastern US, where all the other predators have been largely wiped out, the deer herd has overpopulated some areas to crazy levels. There are parts of Pennsylvania where you can see a browse line in the forest, which is the highest level that a deer can reach. They've eaten EVERYTHING below that line, including things you wouldn't think they could tolerate. Still, I don't think they taste good enough to bother hunting, and the hunters don't seem all that effective, to me. Venison can be made into jerky or sausage and it's pretty good, but that's kind of cheating. After all, if you add enough spices, you could probably eat a boot and call it good.
I don't know of any place that sells venison, though. There might be some somewhere, but you'd generally have to harvest it yourself, or get some from somebody else.
You would also need good aim to shoot a rattle snake with a hand gun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Do you mean like humans in some parts of the world???Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Perhaps they could be reemployed as lawnmowers as an alternative vocation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
However, would you go moose or elk on a regular basis if you were given the opportunity given that you seem endeared with the flavour?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Never hunted deer in my life. Like some many other things you post you have read into\assumed more than was said. Being from western Pennsylvania and currently in Ohio I am aware of how popular it is. In western PA some schools close for the first day of deer season and so do some businessees. There are different seasons like doe, arrows only, etc. so it's not just going out and shooting a deer. There is the outdoors stalking part of it, the primal hunting instincts, eating the deer although I would agree most ends up jerky. Also as posted many of the deer would starve to death without hunting season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
There is much more too it than my quick blurb. I'd be happy to post more if you really care.
Nah, I just asked you directly when you said deer hunting is huge in parts of the U.S!Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Is there a chain of venison fast food outlets???Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
How young are the youngest children who go deer hunting?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
I find the arrow part hard to believe, isn't it merely about making an easy kill and getting food that can't fight back on the table as quickly as possible???Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
You make it sound like you have done some of it yourself!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Do you like the taste?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
I always thought beef was the primary jerky available.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Are you saying that you wouldn't approve of using deer instead of lawnmowers in your local neighborhood?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
Although it was quick, do go on!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonLPrice
I suppose so. It's a bit hard to say, though. We can produce enough food for all of us, though we don't distribute it correctly for all people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Hedge trimmer would be more likely. I don't even know if deer eat grass. They tend to eat shrubs and LOTS of garden plants, both edible and ornamental. They seem to only trample rosemary, though.Quote:
Perhaps they could be reemployed as lawnmowers as an alternative vocation?
No. I like beef, too, but I eat it only a few times a year, so there's not much chance that I'd eat moose or elk regularly, either.Quote:
However, would you go moose or elk on a regular basis if you were given the opportunity given that you seem endeared with the flavour?
No. There's no commercial venison industry in the country, as far as I know. A hunter can get some number of deer based on the state, the hunt, and so forth, but the number is never very high, and the cost of the tag is somewhat significant. I believe a person who has legally taken a deer could exchange some portion of the meet with somebody else for cash, but there would be other regulations on posession which would make it more difficult. For one thing, the harvester would probably have to provide transfer documentation for the consumer to show that the deer was taken legally. I should probably know those rules in greater detail, but I don't. There may even be states where the rules are more lax, but I REALLy don't get involved with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
That probably depends on the state.Quote:
How young are the youngest children who go deer hunting?
No. Bow hunters are kind of like fly fishermen. In fact, all the bow hunters I know are also fly fisherman. For them, it doesn't seem to be so much a question of putting meat on the table, but how it is done. There's a greater level of skill needed for bow hunting, since the range is FAR less, so it appeals to certain types of people.Quote:
I find the arrow part hard to believe, isn't it merely about making an easy kill and getting food that can't fight back on the table as quickly as possible???
It is by FAR. Hunters generally take game to a game processing operation where it is cut up into steaks, roasts, burger, sausage, jerky, or whatever. Since the jerky isn't sold, the amount is vastly less than commercially produced beef jerky. Technically, you should be able to make jerky out of nearly any meat, and some other types of food, but I only know of beef, venison, elk, and salmon.Quote:
I always thought beef was the primary jerky available.
Goats would work better than deer. I know of at least one house in my neighborhood that uses goats for lawn control.Quote:
Are you saying that you wouldn't approve of using deer instead of lawnmowers in your local neighborhood?
Apparently India looks like it has a definite problem in that area with projections to 2030 looking like that (population growing 25%):Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...ulation_growthCode:01 02 +1 India (demographics) 1,523,482,000 1,224,614,000 +24.4%
02 01 −1 China (demographics) 1,393,076,000 1,341,335,000 +3.9%
Especially with India being approximately 1/3 the size of China!
India's area = 3,287,263 km2/ 1,269,219 sq mi
China's area =9,706,961 km2/3,747,879 sq mi
Lawnmower and hedge trimmer, it just keeps getting better!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I just watched a video of a deer eating grass, so yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
So you can also add pruning to their job list too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Strange, perhaps it has something to do with them having too many stag parties???Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Why only a few times a year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Although if you could choose between beef, elk, or moose what would you prefer (when you eat that sort of meat)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Hard to say. I don't make a point of it, that's just how it works out. Most of the meat I eat is chicken, with fish being second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Whichever is in front of me is pretty much my favorite. Now that I think about it, though, the only steaks I have ever eaten have been beef, while the other two have always been in some kind of context rather than just as a slab of meat. That makes for an invalid comparison, since the preparations have been different in all meaningful cases.Quote:
Although if you could choose between beef, elk, or moose what would you prefer (when you eat that sort of meat)?
I guess that must push up the price of venison in fancy restaurants?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Are there any that you know of that allow primary school aged folks to go a hunting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Do you mean that it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Salmon jerky, now that's right on and delectable, I'll have to hunt some down!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I guess it would depend on the size of the grassed area you have to maintain!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
What no hamburgers or steaks???Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
So, as yet, it seems that you are not that much of a connoisseur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Probably, if there are any that have it on the menu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
What age is that? I think the answer is no, but I'm not sure what age ranges that would be.Quote:
Are there any that you know of that allow primary school aged folks to go a hunting?
No. There are just people out there who try to make it harder on themselves. Bow hunting is one level, but traditional bow hunting (no compound bows) is a subset within the bow hunting crowd. It's just people trying to do things a bit different.Quote:
Do you mean that it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?
Nobody has ever accused me of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Would you order venison if it was available on the menu?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I would guess primary school age to be approximately 5-12 years old. I ask as I have seen some guns and bullet proof vests made and advertised specifically for youngsters in the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Did you just change your mind? Are you now indicating that it is not acceptable to kill a deer under any circumstances even if they are killed by weapons that require a high degree of skill such as the traditional bow you just mentioned, a blowpipe or spear? What about a foot race to determine which animal has superior endurance; would it be ok to kill a deer if it collapses from exhaustion after being chased by one or more men?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
You have an odd way of taking an answer and formulating a question for it. You asked "Do you mean..." My answer was No, because what you then stated was not even close to what I meant. I was answering the question you asked, not the one you meant to ask. I wasn't putting some kind of value judgement on whether or not it is acceptable to kill a deer in any way, I was saying that there are people who only hunt deer with bows, and they do that to make it more challenging. That's not a question of whether or not it is acceptable, it's just how they are.
If primary school gets you up to 12, then I have no doubt that there are places where you can hunt at that age, though you probably can only hunt when accompanied by an adult. I haven't paid attention to the minimum age, and don't feel like looking it up.
Your mention of the footrace is kind of interesting, as there was a guy who wrote a book about attempting that with antelope. I believe the title is "Running After Antelope". He was a marathon runner who thought that humans may have hunted by simply outlasting animals, as you suggest. The idea is that we are well designed for endurance running, while lots of animals will overheat and shut down if they run long enough. If I remember correctly, he was unable to run down an antelope, even with the help of his brother. The antelope didn't have to keep running, it would sprint for a distance then stop. The two of them were unable to keep it running continually, so it always had a chance to recover between runs. Different species of deer use different evasion strategies, so running may work for some of them, but I doubt it. They are all so much faster than people that they can all use the same strategy that the antelope used to keep from tiring. Dogs can run down deer because they have the speed to keep the deer running, but we just aren't fast enough.
EDIT: As to whether or not I would order it if it was on the menu: Have you not been reading, or not been paying attention. I thought I had stated three times that I didn't much like venison, but I can only find two of the statements, so I must have edited one out. Oddly, you actually quoted one of the statements. So, if I have stated repeatedly that I don't find venison appealing, why would I ever order it?