Forum Upgrade Issues

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

So why don't you want us to get the text links back? Is there some kind of hardship returning them?

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Yes, some. We run, maintain, and upgrade 30 vbulletin forums. If the process of upgrading is SOMEWHAT standardized, the process moves along more quickly. Each unique specialization on a forum hinders and slows this process.

This forum already has quite a few of them, but they're mostly necessary ones, such as the syntax. This could hardly be considered a "must-have". The same functionality is provided. It's no more difficult than clicking the red triangle to report a post, or any of the images in the editor toolbar.

Users complain that upgrades aren't done frequently enough. We're trying to streamline and speed up the process.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

So why don't you want us to get the text links back? Is there some kind of hardship returning them?

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Let me chime in here... :D

You see.... reputations is a very controversial topic on the forums. Not only on the forums, but within the forum staff at Jupitermedia. I support the ratings and reps. I believe I may be alone in that effort internally. As such, when you ask a question about reps -- if it requies *any* effort, then it is one more reason that it should not exist. I'll speak for Joe - he doesn't like reps at all. He is the forum manager, so he tends to get to decide a lot of the forum functionality. I'm responsible for VBForums as a site, so I changed the decision here to allow Reps to be left turned on. This was based on my other sites having them and on a lot of other factors. It also means, rep issues all get given to me.

As was stated to me - if a developer can't figure out an icon (and all the information from a lot of people's signatures), then they probably shouldn't be rating posts anyway....

I may take the time to add the "Rate" text back; however, I really think it is coloring a lemon yellow, and thus doesn't gain us much. As such, it is something that will have to wait until later (like after the other forums I also am involved with are updated so I can do the changes all at once).

Brad!

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

... But since you asked such an intelligent question (and at the same time make me feel like an idiot) I feel obligated to answer. No clicking on an image instead of a text is not hard, and if you would try it for yourself you will notice that your computer mouse don't even care what you click on. However, the mouse handling and clicking has nothing to do with it! The problem with the scale icon is that it's far from clear what it does, and you really have to look hard to even see that the icon represent a scale. While at the same time there is no question what a text link that clearly states Rate this post does.

So why don't you want us to get the text links back? Is there some kind of hardship returning them?

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After the upgrade I was going to do a rep and noticed the text link was gone. It took me a few seconds to realize the scale was still there too. Now if I was a newer member then I wouldnt know about the scale icon and how many members really read signatures?

I think later when time permits and the priority warrents, we should change the stupid scale icon and switch it to something a little more relevant/obvious if we cant ge the "Rate this post" text link back. :)

And the Report post icon? And the add a link to a post Icon, in the editor toolbar? As well as the add an image to a post Icon? Or the add quote tags Icon? The quick reply quote icon which is to the right of the Quote button?Folks, the place is full of images which represent some meaning to us. I don't see why this one is any different.

White on a very light gray is part of the problem. Its hard to make out what it is and when you do see its a "scale" its like what is that supposed to do. :D

Too bad it couldnt be something that represents a positive or a rating of some kind.

I can fully understand that people may have different opinions about one feature or another. However most people that are using this forum seems to like the rep feature though. I know I do. To give some rep points to someone that have provided good help that you've learned something from is the least I can do as a thank you for the effort.

But as I read your post Brad, I get the feeling that it's not a question about good or bad features within the forum but rather that if something requires an effort to do, it's not worth doing... Is that really the official policy at Jupitarmedia?

I fully understand that updating 30 different forums requires a lot of work but did anybody really force Jupitermedia into creating so many forums, or is this the business they are in to?

The scale icon is nothing but a blury, fuzzy, blueish thing... (Is it a cloud...? Is it some fog....? No! It's the super scale... that adds to a persons reputation which everybody automatically knows is the same thing as rating a post).

I will now stop whining and instead start hoping that you will return the text link :)

Wow - I'm curious about a new tag - but it's impossible to read all these posts - hope this hasn't been already asked and answered...

I used the new HIGHLIGHT tag - with SQL...

Why the line numbers? And how did it decide to actually highlight like this anyway? What is the italics supposed to mean?

SQL Code:

Select * From RealTable RT
Left Join #TEMP TT on TT.PriKey=RT.PriKey
Where TT.PriKey is null

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But as I read your post Brad, I get the feeling that it's not a question about good or bad features within the forum but rather that if something requires an effort to do, it's not worth doing... Is that really the official policy at Jupitarmedia?

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If it were, I wouldn't have spent half a day adding syntax highlighting and getting it to default to vb in quick reply. Only arbitrary features fall under the above heading.

To me, all the aforementioned icons are indecipherable. The add an image link looks like a tiny postcard to me. The add a link icon looks like it has a globe behind it. No idea what that's about. The report post icon is a red triangle. What's that got to do with reporting a post? But if you mouseover any of these icons, the tooltips tell you what they're for. But if Brad wants to replace it, that's up to him.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Why the line numbers?

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The line numbers appear in all the highlighting and I like it. Now, if you are dealing with someone elses code, you can pinpoint for them exactly what line of code you are referring to or what line of code needs to be changed.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

And how did it decide to actually highlight like this anyway? What is the italics supposed to mean?

SQL Code:

Select * From RealTable RT
Left Join #TEMP TT on TT.PriKey=RT.PriKey
Where TT.PriKey is null

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From the looks of it the SQL Keywords will be highlighted. I like this as well. I capitalize all SQL keywords in my queries so that they stand out when I'm reading them. Don't know about the italics though. :)

From the looks of it.. I would assume that it is using # as a comment indicator.

In my opinion there shouldn't be any comments in SQL code (as there isn't a common indicator between DBMS's). Something to think about when the important things are fixed!

SQL Server still uses -- for a single line comment and /* comment */ for a block comment. Your memory is fading Hack :D

Here.. just replace the current reputation.gif with this one :)

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

... But if you mouseover any of these icons, the tooltips tell you what they're for...

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That could a major issue - I had tooltips dissappeared in my broser for no apparent reason for quite some time (few months - 5 or 6) - they reappear few weeks ago for apparently no reason as well. I coun't find any solution that would solve this problem. So I second anyone's opinion about the text link.

or this one

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

If it were, I wouldn't have spent half a day adding syntax highlighting and getting it to default to vb in quick reply. Only arbitrary features fall under the above heading.

To me, all the aforementioned icons are indecipherable. The add an image link looks like a tiny postcard to me. The add a link icon looks like it has a globe behind it. No idea what that's about. The report post icon is a red triangle. What's that got to do with reporting a post? But if you mouseover any of these icons, the tooltips tell you what they're for. But if Brad wants to replace it, that's up to him.

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I'm not taking the same tack as Joachim, but I certainly share his view. My eyes, though aging, are still well above 20/20, and that icon isn't all that meaningful to me. I much prefer Static's second suggested icon.

I also think that the "report this post" triangle is a totally obvious one, because it is an exclamation point in a nearly universal alert symbol. Of course, my totally color blind employee, and red/green color blind boss, might disagree on the whole thing, since they wouldn't see squat there (makes it fun having them test programs).

Joe: The reason for going back to the text phrase for reps are probably the reasons you would guess at if you were to guess. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's not a bad thing, either. A little Adam Smith would do you good....by putting you to sleep, but rest is a good thing, and some of his views on economy would apply here.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

But as I read your post Brad, I get the feeling that it's not a question about good or bad features within the forum but rather that if something requires an effort to do, it's not worth doing... Is that really the official policy at Jupitarmedia?

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You are twisting what I stated.

The 'effort' comment related specifically to things related to the reputation system and nothing more. As I stated, I'm the only internal person standing between the reputation system being turned off. Taking time to add text to an icon seems trivial in the scheme of things to be done. As Joe has stated, there is a text tip already.

As I also stated - when all the forums are updated, then I -might- be willing to come back and add "(Rate)", even though I think it is a goofy thing to need to do.

Are you guys asking Microsoft to put the word "Start" back in Vista? ;) :D

Brad!

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Originally Posted by brad jones

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Are you guys asking Microsoft to put the word "Start" back in Vista? ;) :D

Brad!

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Yes, Please tell Microsoft to put the "Start" text on the Vista start button back. I dont know what that "windows" looking round icon means. ;) :D

I thnk we just need to settle down a bit as whenever we have an upgrade we get to ask for tweaks and features. Sometimes it may just keep rolling out of control. I'm just glad we have the upgrade and the new code script. The rest will come in time. :)

Robert! :D

I already have a petition going to bring back "Start" (and Clippy!!!)) LOL j/k

i dont think the word is at all needed...

thats why i posted the new icon. Im assuming the all the graphics are stored in one place (../images/buttons/) so.. just drop in that one I made... all set :D

take you less time then it would to reply to my post and explain the it would take to much effort! LOL.. c'mon... I know i gotcha on this one! (i have replaced gfx on many websites... the filename is /images/buttons/reputaion.gif ;) )

LOL

I got the meaning, but as I stated, NONE of the icons in use on the forum are particularly descriptive, in and of themselves. None of them look like much of anything, to me, that would indicate what their purpose is, yet we adjust to the others and use them with no complaints. I imagine that's why they all have descriptive tooltips.

There is no difference between this one, and all those others. It's an arbitrary change that in my opinion, should not need to be made.

All clickable images suck equally. Sh*t happens.

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Originally Posted by brad jones

You are twisting what I stated.

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Yes, I know I did, and I did it on purpose to get a point across. If I was too offensive I apologize. But just because there is other icons that may or may not make sense is not an excuse for not putting back the text link.

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Originally Posted by brad jones

Are you guys asking Microsoft to put the word "Start" back in Vista?

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No, but after the first beta version of Windows 95, at the time still named Chicago, I asked Microsoft to rename the button! "Start" doesn't make much sense for that button since it is first seen after Windows have been started and you have logged on. Furthermore the menu item closest to the mouse after you've clicked on the Start button is used for shutting down the computer, not start it.

The tooltip like text that is shown when you hover the scale icon also says "Add to <username>'s reputation", not "Rate this post". If I was new to this forum, and never been visiting any other forum having this rep system, I would actually not really know what that would do.... The user that gives these points isn't really interested in the other users reputation! He/she just evaluates the answer and gives it a rating. The fact that that would add to the reputation of the one who gave the answer is beside the point.

My point here is that the tooltip text of the icon is wrongly worded from the perspective of the one rating the post....

I'm pretty amazed that, what should be pretty simple thing (restoring the text link), turned into this pretty heated discussion, that still have nothing to do with if it's harder or not for anyone to click a text link compared to an icon.

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Originally Posted by Joacim Andersson

Yes, I know I did, and I did it on purpose to get a point across. If I was too offensive I apologize. But just because there is other icons that may or may not make sense is not an excuse for not putting back the text link.

No, but after the first beta version of Windows 95, at the time still named Chicago, I asked Microsoft to rename the button! "Start" doesn't make much sense for that button since it is first seen after Windows have been started and you have logged on. Furthermore the menu item closest to the mouse after you've clicked on the Start button is used for shutting down the computer, not start it.

The tooltip like text that is shown when you hover the scale icon also says "Add to <username>'s reputation", not "Rate this post". If I was new to this forum, and never been visiting any other forum having this rep system, I would actually not really know what that would do.... The user that gives these points isn't really interested in the other users reputation! He/she just evaluates the answer and gives it a rating. The fact that that would add to the reputation of the one who gave the answer is beside the point.

My point here is that the tooltip text of the icon is wrongly worded from the perspective of the one rating the post....

I'm pretty amazed that, what should be pretty simple thing (restoring the text link), turned into this pretty heated discussion, that still have nothing to do with if it's harder or not for anyone to click a text link compared to an icon.

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Hats Off To You Joacim! [serious]

If you want to be technical (which it appears you do), it's not wrongly worded at all. When you click the link, what eventually occurs? You may think you're rating a post, but the post shows no change in rating, the author's rep does, so the wording is precisely accurate. No post on this forum shows any rating whatsoever. What you are actually doing is altering the author's reputation, based on that post.

You CAN rate threads, however.

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

... When you click the link, what eventually occurs? You may think you're rating a post, but the post shows no change in rating, the author's rep does, so the wording is precisely accurate...

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That just doesn't sound right, JP. Read it again. :)
I think Joacim is right - wording is wrong (it doesn't bother me to be honest) but it is wrong.

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

If you want to be technical (which it appears you do), it's not wrongly worded at all. When you click the link, what eventually occurs? You may think you're rating a post, but the post shows no change in rating, the author's rep does, so the wording is precisely accurate. No post on this forum shows any rating whatsoever. What you are actually doing is altering the author's reputation, based on that post.

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That's true, this is what you're technically doing, but I actually wasn't talking technical, I was talking about the users perspective (something we developers all to often forget). You rate the answer.

I, the user, has just joined this forum and asked a question and after a short while someone steps in and gives me a solution to my query and I want to rate that answer, which I do by rating it.

I know the rating doesn't show up in the post, but the user that got the rating (the reputation points) can see which post that has been rated and the positive (hopefully) comment the user wrote.

But you brought up the user's perspective, so why mislead them? If the user in question is as bewildered as you suggest, then if you tell him he's rating a post, would he not then look for the rating of this post to be reflected somehow? Seems logical to me.

"I just rated this guy's post. How come I don't see any change?"

Based on the fact that the wording is accurate, that the forum is replete with iconic symbols every bit as difficult to decipher, that they're all supplied with tooltip explanations of their function, I have to conclude that this one is being harped upon SOLELY because it involves reputation.

Why wouldn't you be as concerned that a user wouldn't know what the quick reply quote button is? I mean isn't that a very integral and useful thing, to know how to quote a message you're replying to, without using long reply?

Well as Brad already said, he may decide to change it back the way it was. That's up to him. G'nite all.

I wasn't even aware that a "quick reply quote button" existed, which even further distress my point.

Besides, you do mislead a new user when the tip text states that he can add to someones reputation when in fact he can't since he needs to make 20 posts first. However he can still rate the answer by supplying a comment.

I don't see a problem that a rating of a post isn't shown in the post itself but only readable by the person whos post is being rated. Where's the conflict in that?

And the SOLE reason I'm harping this particular subject is *not* that it involves reputation but rather that I asked to get a text link back that used to exist before and because you wondered why.

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Originally Posted by penagate

I just deleted my post that you quoted. Are you suuuuuuuuuuure you can't delete yours?

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Yep.

Maybe only Powerposters can delete their posts now.

Admins?

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

I got the meaning, but as I stated, NONE of the icons in use on the forum are particularly descriptive, in and of themselves. None of them look like much of anything, to me, that would indicate what their purpose is, yet we adjust to the others and use them with no complaints. I imagine that's why they all have descriptive tooltips.

There is no difference between this one, and all those others. It's an arbitrary change that in my opinion, should not need to be made.

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:cry: I spent like 4 minutes on those icons! and you just shoot them down like that!! now.. i will never get those 4 minutes of my life back.

LOL. seriously... crazy how much talk about a little link! good thing we dont pay to use this site.. i could not even imagine how much people would complain then. To me.. i dont care.. but thats cause I know what the link does. the only people will be confused are the new members. but, eventually they will learn.


Here is a question though. I have been on other sites that use 3.5+ version.. and when you click edit.. it lets you edit right then & there.. does not redirect. Plus, quick reply doesnt not seem to reload the page.. just poof.. theres your post. and Images can actually be pasted into the editor....

are these features that need to be "enabled" or extra features? just curious :)

I assume the pasting of an image directly is a feature of the WYSIWYG editor and not the advanced editor which most of us use.

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Originally Posted by brad jones

I may take the time to add the "Rate" text back; however, I really think it is coloring a lemon yellow, and thus doesn't gain us much. As such, it is something that will have to wait until later (like after the other forums I also am involved with are updated so I can do the changes all at once).

Brad!

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In the meantime, you'd better take the reference to 'Rate this post' out of your signature... ;)

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

Woot! I like this new feature too. No more popups of confirmation of receipt when sending a PM (unchecked by default). :thumb:

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Hmmm, thats a blast from the past. I'm glad that has been implemented :thumb:

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Originally Posted by pnish

In the meantime, you'd better take the reference to 'Rate this post' out of your signature... ;)

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change it to
"If you found this post useful, please click on the white, almost invisible balance in the left bottom of the post." :p

I don't have time to read all the posts here to see if this was discussed before:

Before when i was sending a PM, right after i would send it I would get a message like:
"You have 15 confirmed and 1 unconfirmed private message receipts."
But now, I always get "... 0 unconfirmed private message receipts."

We don't have confirmation for private messages anymore ?

You have to tick "Request a read receipt for this message" under "Miscellaneous Options" under "Send Message".

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Originally Posted by penagate

You have to tick "Request a read receipt for this message" under "Miscellaneous Options" under "Send Message".

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Was it ticked before by default ?

Do I have to do it every time now ?
Can we have it ticked by default ?

i hate it.. dont set it to default! please

ok.. i just posted that response.. and this popped up!????


http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4290/huhqd2.jpg