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Yeah, they could put shortcuts to things they do on a regular basis. Like email and IE. Then can just go to them. If they want to do something special, then they could end KidOS. The big thing being brought up here it that it needs to be flexible enough that parents can set it up how they want. Not how we think they want. :)
And, in Parent mode we wouldn't stop ctrl+alt+del or the Windows key or make it always on top. Then parents can get to whatever they want.
Doesn't that defeat the purpose?Quote:
Originally posted by Osnr
New idea (inspired by techgnome)!
We could list the items in the normal programs menu for parents and then they could run programs without ending KidOS!
BTW: In case anyone is starting to think I'm being a ***** (which is really besides the point), I think do think the idea has merit and can be done. For the most part, I'm being the devil's advocate to ensure that all the bases are being covered. What ever solution is done needs to be simple, yet not too simple that any 8yr old can figure it out (although many by that age will have figured things even more dangerous that disabling KidOS), and not so simple that parents don't want to use it.
Oh, and we need it to automaticly log the user off if there is extended idle time. That way if an older kid gets off, we don't have to worry about the younger kid jumping on their session.
Now that is something you can build into the screen saver portion -- then users can have the option to use it or not.Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
Oh, and we need it to automaticly log the user off if there is extended idle time. That way if an older kid gets off, we don't have to worry about the younger kid jumping on their session.
Doesn't what defeat the purpose? And I don't think you are being a *****, I like your suggestions. Keeps us thinking. Thats what this thread is for. :D :DQuote:
Originally posted by techgnome
Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
BTW: In case anyone is starting to think I'm being a ***** (which is really besides the point), I think do think the idea has merit and can be done. For the most part, I'm being the devil's advocate to ensure that all the bases are being covered. What ever solution is done needs to be simple, yet not too simple that any 8yr old can figure it out (although many by that age will have figured things even more dangerous that disabling KidOS), and not so simple that parents don't want to use it.
good pointQuote:
Originally posted by techgnome
Now that is something you can build into the screen saver portion -- then users can have the option to use it or not.
Sorry, I thought I had hit the Quote button, but hit the Reply instead, and two more posts came in at the same time..... I was replying to Osnr's posting about adding all of the normal Programs menu in the KidOS.Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
Doesn't what defeat the purpose?
Quote:
Originally posted by techgnome
Now that is something you can build into the screen saver portion -- then users can have the option to use it or not.
And..... when the mouse gets moved to kill the screen saver, it can ask a question (or a login screen) that if answered right (or logged in properly) would get the user back to where they were. If it's answered wrong, or it's an incorrect login, then it assumes the user is a kid that doesn't have the password/answer and goes into KiddOS mode........ hmmm...... we maybe onto something here........
Well lets get back to the boot up problem. Do we like the idea that by deafult, Windows loads KidOS on startup. Which the parent can choose not to happen. When the parent logs in, they can either go to windows or the parent section. The parents section can have programs there also, so they don't have to go to windows to check thier email
I think all of us fall into this catagory. And all of us COULD if we took the time secure our machine to keep the kids out of it.Quote:
Originally posted by techgnome
Okay, here's the deal. I work with computers. I fall into that category just above a power user...
I think the intent here is to write something for those parents who fall well below the rating of Power User.
I've met pleanty of adults (including former employers) who have few PC skills than my 8 year old.
I was thinking of KidOS for those type of parents... I'm not sure what Mr. Lizard had in mind.
I say no. For the simple reason you gave earlier bliz..... I leave the comp on 24x7. I think (and this is just one gnomes opinion) that it needs to be an app that provides a layer of protection between the kid & Windows. Just reset the shortcut link for Blues Clues to the KidOS app, then once there (and now our desktop, taskbar & the rest of the system is protected from clik happy fingers) they can click on the Blues Clues link in there to get it going (kids are smart, it wouldn't take much to get them to learn how to do this).Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
Well lets get back to the boot up problem. Do we like the idea that by deafult, Windows loads KidOS on startup. Which the parent can choose not to happen. When the parent logs in, they can either go to windows or the parent section. The parents section can have programs there also, so they don't have to go to windows to check thier email
Yes and no. I thought it up for not to savy of parents, and for me, and for the kids. The main thing is the kids to have a Kid Friendly environment. The parent part is so parents don't have to worry about their settings, and so they don't have to worry about what content their kids are seeing. I built a browser for this a couple years ago. Kept my kids where I wanted them on the Net with out having to type in www.nick.com every 5 minutes. They can jsut go there.Quote:
Originally posted by cbond
I think all of us fall into this catagory. And all of us COULD if we took the time secure our machine to keep the kids out of it.
I think the intent here is to write something for those parents who fall well below the rating of Power User.
I've met pleanty of adults (including former employers) who have few PC skills than my 8 year old.
I was thinking of KidOS for those type of parents... I'm not sure what Mr. Lizard had in mind.
Ok, I can buy into all of that..... So, the probable user isn't too tech savy, proly doesn't have many logins created (if any). Is most likely has the "home" version of whatever Windwos (ME, XP Home, Win98, possibly 95 -- I wouldn't worry about 95).
I do see techgnome's point.
If the app appears to have too much control over the machine, some parents may not go for that for fear of not being able to shut if off to do the most basic tasks.
I think our "desktop" need to have a big "EXIT" sign on it so parents can shut it off no matter who is using it.
That sounds good. I think we are all really speeking the same language here. The app should be a stand alone app. It is up to the parent to decide if it starts up automaticly. That can be a stetting in the install. But yes, I would imagine that this would be installed on regular home machines, but we need the power to run on professional machines. Let them have it auto run on certain windows user accounts, etc..Quote:
Originally posted by cbond
I do see techgnome's point.
If the app appears to have too much control over the machine, some parents may not go for that for fear of not being able to shut if off to do the most basic tasks.
I think our "desktop" need to have a big "EXIT" sign on it so parents can shut it off no matter who is using it.
There can be a "Run when OS starts" option -- which can write the proper entry into the Reg where it will run when ever Windows starts..
:eek: hold on.... brainstorm.......
Let me think it through first, then I'll post it......
exactlyQuote:
Originally posted by techgnome
There can be a "Run when OS starts" option -- which can write the proper entry into the Reg where it will run when ever Windows starts..
:eek: hold on.... brainstorm.......
Let me think it through first, then I'll post it......
Next, we need Internet restriction. For one thing, the kid should only be able to visit a site that is part of a parent-customizable list of safe sites. This will be fairly easy, as long as parents don't mind being bound to IE. Also, instant messaging & chat should be restricted by limiting to kid-safe rooms or other kid buddies. E-mail poses a problem. We need a good way to filter possibly offensive spam from kids' inboxes. What do you think?
I think we should limit chat and email to other kids with KidOS. Then limit that list to the one that the parents choose. We can also index all messages sent, and give a report to the parents.
Also, about the browser. I think it needs to be totally customized for this. Use the IE control, but make it the KidOS browser. I just had a thought. (hate to admit that at one time I used AOL) We could make a AOL type interface. The broswer is intertwined into the application, and the Application makes the user feal like that is all that exists on their computer. I know my parents could not understand that when they were online, they could do other things besides looking at the AOL interface.
For what it's worth, you guys may want to take a look at MSN Explorer.... it's got a touchy feely interface to it too.... not all that different than what we are looking for.
-- I'm still walking myself through the brainstorm I had..... I should be done with it shortly.
Just make sure your brain doesn't explode!!:eek:Quote:
Originally posted by techgnome
For what it's worth, you guys may want to take a look at MSN Explorer.... it's got a touchy feely interface to it too.... not all that different than what we are looking for.
-- I'm still walking myself through the brainstorm I had..... I should be done with it shortly.
You all stole my ideas (well, some of them)! Look at my post more closely. :p
The last 3 posts were based off your ideas.Quote:
Originally posted by Osnr
You all stole my ideas (well, some of them)! Look at my post more closely. :p
Ok, let me put this all out here, you read it and tell me if I've got something or not. I'm going to walk this through from install to use, so bare with me.....
1) When the app runs for the very first time, it goes into Parent setup mode.
2) If it finds more than one user on the system (which shouldn't be too difficult), it asks the user to select which one(s) is the Parent(s) login. Or, maybe it asks which ones are Kid logins. Doesn't really matter as long as we can get a list of one, we can get the other. Basically, you would link the Windows logins to KidOS logins.
3) If it doesn't find multiple logins, then assume we have a shared computer. Ask the user to create a Parent login and password. This wouldn't actually create a Windows login, just a KidOS one.
4) For each Kid account, select the aprropriate age level and program access.
-- Ok, here' where things get a bit tricky
5) Setting the options. The "Set Screen Saver Protection" is turned on by default. The "Run with Windows" option would also be turned on.
Here's where I was trying to go with it...... I install it, and set me & my wife up as Parents. I set my daughter up as Kid. Then when I login to Windows & KidOS starts up, it sees that I am on the Parent list and stops right away. But if my daughter logs in, it sees that she's on the Kid list and locks everything down and all she gets is the KidOS interface.
Now, for the other side, where the computer stays logged in, and everyone just uses it. When Windows starts up, it fires up the login part of KidOS which then askes "Who are you?" The parent could then supply the Parent login, and it quits. Or if it gets the wrong answer, or the kid logs in, then KidOS takes over. Same thing for the screen saver, when it quits, it asks for credentials, then uses KidOS or dumps back to Windows accordingly.
Think this is the kind of setup that I would be OK with.
That sounds great. I am glad someone wrote it all down. I think that is a good base to build from. Anyone any any problems or suggestiosn with it? Or, can we go with that for the security model?
1 question gnome, are we replacing the windows login?
I'm not OK with the "quits immediately" part. I mean, how are the parents to control KidOS?
The parent part could be an something they run from windows.Quote:
Originally posted by Osnr
I'm not OK with the "quits immediately" part. I mean, how are the parents to control KidOS?
I am leaving work now. I don't know if I will have time to post before the new year. Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone. And hey, I really think this is going to work:D
No, and Yes..... If KidOS logins are linked to Windows logins, then no. If it's in a shared mode, such as is your case, then yes, technically it would replace the Win login.Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
1 question gnome, are we replacing the windows login?
Start | Programs | KidOS |Parent ControlsQuote:
Originally posted by Osnr
I'm not OK with the "quits immediately" part. I mean, how are the parents to control KidOS?
Yeah, what he said -- you got to it before I could.Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
The parent part could be an something they run from windows.
We could design a control panel app for that - more relative.
Keep in mind that some users are not going to know what the Control Panel is, let alone find it. Don't forget Grandma & Grandpa might use this too so that little Timmy doesn't kill their computer......Quote:
Originally posted by Osnr
We could design a control panel app for that - more relative.
Let's do double then. KidOS Control Panel & KidOS Control Program. It won't be too hard.
Ok, so I lied, I'm back. So, if they have multiple users (and one or more is a kid) then no need to replace the login. If a kid logs in, startup KidOS. If they only have 1 login, or no kid logins, or no login (95/98) Then load KidOS.
I can tell someone wants to put something in the control panel :)Quote:
Originally posted by Osnr
Let's do double then. KidOS Control Panel & KidOS Control Program. It won't be too hard.
Don't forget, 9x has multiuser features as well, complicating things. What can we do about that? There is an autologin key in the registry, but that stores the plain text password...
Omar
It loads then presents the user with the login screen. Then depending on the login, it will either continue with the KidOS (if a kid is logging in) or it will terminate and return to Widnows (if a Parent logs in).Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
Ok, so I lied, I'm back. So, if they have multiple users (and one or more is a kid) then no need to replace the login. If a kid logs in, startup KidOS. If they only have 1 login, or no kid logins, or no login (95/98) Then load KidOS.
I agre, that is the better way to do it, so it will compatible with Windows NT 4.02000/XP. And how long until we start the coding?Quote:
Originally posted by blindlizard
Well I thought at first about making this a shell replacement which means it would replace exploere.exe so there would be no statr menu. When Windows boots, it would run KidOS insted of Explorer. However, I cannot find how to do this in 2K or XP because there is not shell entry in system.ini. With all that in mind, I think this should just run on top of exploer. We can trap ctrl+alt+del and the windows key to keep the start menu from coming up. The program would run allways on top, so as to apear as the desktop.