Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

I got vaccinated through my local County Health Department. There were also some hospitals and other organizations dispensing as well, but they had very long waiting lists.

Early in March I went in to a lab to have blood drawn for testing (not related to COVID) but the techs there said "oh, just apply everywhere, get on every waiting list." That seemed like a bizarre suggestion that just produces discouragingly congested waiting lists. Turned out that didn't matter because none were accepting new names for their lists except the one I went with anyway.

But the eligibility age dropped and dropped again before I got a slot on a list. The entire thing began to have overtones of Zeno's dichotomy paradox, always cutting the distance remaining in half yet never getting there.

At the time, the County required proof of residency or employment. Now they are taking all comers 16 years of age or more. That probably makes sense because:

• Anybody who can get there probably does get there and nobody wants them spreading infection, so try to get them vaccinated.
• As time goes on you exhaust the population placing a priority on vaccination so you get more late cancellations and no-shows, wasting vaccine that goes bad after sitting around all day. This may mean they are now intentionally overbooking a bit.

That last point might seem nutty. I'm sure they know telling people "no room at the inn, go away" would discourage vaccination. But they are running a large bulk drive-through operation and after several months probably have a feel for things now and can avoid turning people away.

Kind of funny. By April they had to convince the media not to shoot photos showing any police and military presence, mainly National Guard and volunteer off duty police officers. It was "scaring people off."

I had to give the secret handshake to the pharmacy clerk at the grocery store where I got my shots. lol

Trying to draw some type of conclusion about the how the vaccine rollout is being handled is almost futile. Every state and county within the state seems to be doing it differently. Seems like the complaints about availability have went down but I have a small sample size to draw from.

Greece opened up the platform for 30 yearers about 2 weeks ago, the total aged 30 to 40 are about 1.5m , those that signed for the vaccine are about 90.000 .
We have a lot of leftover doses if you need one.
I can't cross reference but I believe those greedy Anthellenic politicians are buying 3 times the doses needed to vaccinate the entire population.
Next they will be vaccinating trees and birds. Greedy pigs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-aeP58-a04

In Greek but it shows than one of the epidemiologist that terrorized people about covid received at least half a million dollars from "donations" of pharmaceutical companies that promoted the vaccines.
That started from 2019....That is 2019. So how did they knew that the vaccine will be ready back then?

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Originally Posted by reexre

Why does everyone say the exact same words?
( I don't know the context )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoZOCL9DyCE

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About my post I found more Info:
https://ec.europa.eu/international-p...ging-effort_en

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/ip_20_797

" On 24 April (2020), the WHO and an initial group of global health actors launched a landmark, global collaboration for the accelerated development, production and equitable global access to new COVID-19 essential health technologies. The group includes the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF), the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisations (GAVI),the Global Fund, UNITAID, the Wellcome Trust and the World Bank.

The Commission is also inviting governments, business leaders, public figures philanthropists, artists and citizens to raise awareness about this global pledging effort. The funds collected will be channelled into three strands: diagnostics, treatments and vaccines. "

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Why does everyone say the exact same words?

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Because they're reading the press release issued by the organisation. I don't see anything sinister there.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Because they're reading the press release issued by the organisation. I don't see anything sinister there.

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I just found more info: #2105

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I just found more info

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What are you seeing in there that you think is sinister?

A group of significant players in the health industry have started a fund raising campaign to support distribution of vaccines globally, e.g. they want to make sure third world countries have access to the vaccine, not just wealthier countries. What's wrong with that?

I already had my first dose and my second is early next week. I was at my Doctor's office yesterday and he has shots now (he is part of a large medical clinic) so it is down from pharmacies and large distribution centers to local Doctors in central Ohio now.

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You should be doing that with ALL media, not just mainstream media.

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Agree!

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Do you really?

In my experience most of those who disagree with what they hear on mainstream media, instead get there news from Social Media or even YouTube

The problem I have with this is anybody with an opinion can post some supposed news on Social Media it gets shared around and seems to become fact at least to those consuming it.

The People posting there do not have to validate their sources of information, they do not have to research properly they have no journalistic code that they have to follow.

I know that mainstream media is not perfect and has its own biases but at the very least they have a set of rules which they have to follow to find out if a story is true or not and you just dont have that on Social Media.

People get sucked into a Social Media vortex of confirmation bias where people find sources of information that fit there world view and due to Facebook algorithms the more you click on so called news like it the more and more of this same type of so called news is shared with you.

I have had one friend tell me that the Covid vaccines can cause dementia and rabies in the same sentence, basically just because they had read it on Facebook. They had not bothered to read up elsewhere to check if this was true, it WAS true to them because they had read it on Facebook !

Early on in this Pandemic I had people I know sharing this YouTube video called Plandemic, where some Women claims that the whole pandemic can been planed by the pharmaceutical companies and and Dr Fauci in particular is responsible. (there were also a load of other nonsense claims in there far to many to list here)

The problem with this video is that on the very surface is was produced quite well and used many of the tropes of documentaries to set out a case, so many people watched it and just seemed to take it as fact...... as who doesn't love a good conspiracy.

I spent 10 minutes investigating the origins of this video at the time and who the woman was at the centre of it and there claims and it was not only easily demonstrably false, the main women in it had been struck of the medical register in the US and blamed Dr Fauci for it and so specifically held a grudge against him.

This is just one small example, so called news like this is everywhere and people who tell me that the Main stream media is lying to us fine if you think that, but have care about your alternative news sources, and at the very least aggregate and get your news from multiple sources (and even at least one source which you generally disagree with) which helps you filter out stuff that is just false.

How to manipulate masses using the OVERTON WINDOW

Many translation errors may have occurred which I will correct.
taken from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH-RZCKaN64

A small question I ask today is this:
is it possible to change the perception of reality in the masses by getting them to accept as normal something that they considered until just a few summers before absolutely unacceptable from a moral, political, religious or labour point of view?

The answer is absolutely yes, using the very sophisticated manipulation tool known as the overton window.

Once upon a time there was a guy named Overton, a brilliant young analyst, a graduate of the best American public schools and a leading member of an important think tank. Think tanks are study groups whose activity consists of carrying out analyses and outlining scenarios for the use and consumption of political parties, lobbies and individual companies.

The topics covered range from politics to economics, from science and technology to industrial and trade policies and even geopolitical and military consultancy with dedicated strategic study centres.
The institute where our dear friend Overton worked was mainly concerned with political analysis and in this field Overton has given us his famous window.

Overton's window exploits a psychological mechanism or rather the tendency that our mind has to anchor itself to a point of reference and use it to judge the changes with respect to the environment.
and use it to judge changes in relation to it.

Overton stated that the feasibility of a political idea depends mainly on its position in relation to what is commonly accepted by public opinion.
The political proposal should fall within the circle that is understood as the perimeter between its extremes and falls within what can be accepted by the masses at that moment.

The Overton window stipulates that the political proposal to be introduced must first be assimilated by the masses, becoming commonly accepted opinion or socially accepted behaviour.
Once the first political idea or the proposed new social behaviour has been assimilated, it can be expanded over time to involve more and more of the extremes.
In order to be effective, the Overton window should act in a gradual manner to avoid ending up with scenes like this [ popular uprising] should the behaviour or political proposal find itself too far outside the circle of toleration of the masses.

The Overton window is actually a subtle form of induced persuasion, where starting from ideas and behaviours that are unacceptable to the masses it is
it is possible, by following precise steps, not only to get them accepted by society but even to make them the law of the state.

...

For example, to make people accept profound changes in the organisation of work in a company by directing the perception of workers towards the new paradigms.
Or to impose a new normality on the masses that has already been worked out. At the moment, they are working to clear the way for concepts such as paedophilia, artificial wombs, cloning (including human cloning), insects as the food of the future and the 'new normal' as social distancing.

According to Overton, any idea, even the most incredible one, has a window of opportunity to develop. Within this window, the idea can first be discussed, then assimilated, accepted and finally the law can be changed in its favour.
How do we make something that is absolutely stable, but also legal, something that is absolutely unacceptable as well as prohibited today?
Or, how do we make unacceptable, even legal, what is commonly accepted and considered normal today?

Yes because the overton window works both ways. isn't it fantastic?
...
Think for a moment about suspending major constitutional rights by taking advantage of the health crisis , then used to suspend the normal
democratic process.

By using the overton window, one can define a range of norms that a politician can propose without appearing too extreme in relation to the political climate of the moment and avoiding negative repercussions on his or her and the party's image.
In order to achieve this, it is necessary to follow precise steps, taking the time it takes. It can take years, sometimes decades, but once the process has been set in motion, it is unstoppable, simply by following the path already marked out.

If we are in a hurry, there are always crises, real or perceived as such, which are an excellent accelerator of this process. In the case of a corporate economic or health crisis, for example, with the fear and anxiety that goes with it, people will be more willing to accept the proposed change even if they do not like it.
Covid is a prime example of how new social behaviours have been introduced through the health crisis.
We grumbled, of course, but in the end we accepted rules such as the suspension of key constitutional rights, rules that if introduced at any other time would have sparked a revolt.

Let us now look specifically at the steps to be followed to build a good Overton window.

PHASE 1
transform the new idea from unacceptable to sensible.

You start with a political idea or social behaviour
you want to introduce that is initially unacceptable to the public.
The first step is to propose exceptions, to raise exceptions, to make distinctions. The first step is to propose exceptions, to raise exceptions, to make distinctions.
is at least in part admissible.

For example, it starts by stating that in a free and civilised society there must be no 'taboos', that if we want to grow and evolve we must rid ourselves of these from a legacy of a past that was taboo and essentially uncivilised, so it must be possible to talk about them freely in order to proceed along the path of social progress.

The subject begins to be debated, first in exclusive circles frequented by intellectual elites, then slowly moving to a wider audience. Dedicated conventions, conferences and seminars were organised, where high-ranking politicians, esteemed scientists and illustrious thinkers made statements in the form of scientific discussions that were only apparently aseptic, but in reality aimed at confirming the sensibility of the new proposal, a sort of seal of quality.

The 'taboo' is now beginning to be desacralised and we are ready for phase 2.

PHASE2
From the sensibility of the proposal to its rationalisation.
This is the most important phase. Without this, we cannot move forward.

One begins to talk about the political or social proposal in an increasingly widespread manner to wider and wider audiences. The perception of the masses begins to shift from positions that are absolutely unacceptable to positions that make it all worth discussing.
In short, that one can and must be able to
talk about it freely. That possible, albeit very partial, changes are acceptable.

We are beginning to call the originally taboo subject by other names.
This is very important: to separate the form of the word from its content.
I give an exaggerated example:
from cannibalism, an excessively strong term, one has cheerfully switched to anthropophagy.
Isn't this term more delicate as well as incomprehensible?

- "I have my cousin for dinner tonight ... and what can I say, I am an anthropophagist".

Or proposing a distinction between the words paedophile and child molester, starting to separate those who suffer from sexual disorders from those who physically abuse children or commit serious crimes related to child pornography. Exceptions are raised, distinctions are applied, unacceptable behaviour is separated from behaviour that in some cases makes sense and can be talked about.
This is a useful example to understand the concept of how important it is to detach the form of the word from its content so that the masses lose sight of the reference to a behaviour or a political proposal that is otherwise considered unacceptable.

At this stage our mental barriers begin to soften.

PHASE 3
Shift the terrain of discussion from totally unacceptable to considered, rational and logical.
If it is rational and logical it obviously has a scientific basis, and who are we to question science?
Any covid reference is definitely deliberate.

The political or business groups carrying on the discussion on the subject at this stage rely on studies analyses research and reports, all of which are
strictly in support of the proposed theories.
We thus witness the emergence of a new dogma.
This is then the phase in which derogatory labels are churned out to annihilate all those who insist on not accepting change or who at least question it.
(Any reference to the subject of anti-Covid vaccines is quite deliberate)

Anyone who continues to oppose or question the topic or the idea that you are trying to get across, gets the insult: conspiracist, denialist and obscurantist.

Labels serve to instil in people who resist change a form of self-blame. Starting to be seen by the masses
as an annoying foreign element. Sheep resent those who go in the opposite direction to the flock.
Opponents are then relegated to a dark corner, marginalised and discredited.

The masses at this point begin to be psychologically predisposed to accept the political proposal or the new behaviour that is to be made acceptable to society because they begin to see it as logical, rational and sensible.
The mental barriers are breaking down.

PHASE 4
From sensible logical rational to widespread.

The social behaviour, or the political proposal to be proposed to public opinion, thanks to the mass media
enters everyday life becoming a topic so widely discussed and disseminated that it becomes, with time, socially accepted.
Talk shows, interviews, front-page news, films dedicated to the subject, music, commercials...
Testimonials are enlisted, usually famous people from the world of show business, sport...

Titius outed Caius outed ... Sempronius in an interview said that the famous influencer had made a video which had gone viral in which he talked about ...

The perception that the media will give us will be that of a common fact, an obvious phenomenon. When certain habits, certain ways of doing
When certain habits, certain ways of doing things become commonplace, they become part of everyday life, and thus enter the normal range, instinctively leading us to adapt to the common way of doing things.

Abnormal behaviour becomes normal.

From extreme social-political proposal to proposal in line with the needs of the masses.

Proposals that now become an integral part of everyday life, and with time we get used to them, finally arriving at full acceptance of the new social behaviour or the new political proposal induced.

The barriers have now collapsed.

PHASE 5
From socially acceptable to politically sustainable.

At this point the political and legislative basis begins to be built around the issue to be proposed and which the masses have now accepted as acceptable.
The existence of a phenomenon is recognised and a public debate is held on the possibility of incorporating it into law by regulating it in some way.
Or, on the contrary (I remember that Overton's window works both ways), work on the law to prohibit certain social behaviours that have been considered normal until now: for example, gathering in public places to socialise.

At this stage proposals for laws to regulate behaviour, which is now taken for granted, obvious and commonly accepted, begin to emerge.
At this point, power presents itself as the structure that collects the demands of citizens, making them its own by trying to build a legislative base to satisfy them.

The beauty of the Overton window is that the masses do not have the slightest perception of the fact that all this has already been arranged at the table. And that the political or social proposals have actually been artificially induced by the very representatives of that same power, which this stage plays the role of good Samaritan.

Let us move on to the last phase.

PHASE6
from unacceptable to admissible,
from admissible to widespread,
from widespread to socially acceptable,
from socially acceptable to politically sustainable,
from politically viable to politically sustainable in the sixth and final stage.

We move on to the legalisation of a specific social behaviour covered by the Overton window or the decriminalisation of a previously prohibited behaviour.
In an evolved society it is unthinkable not to normalise such a widespread phenomenon. don't you think? and therefore ad hoc laws are passed.

In contemporary society, the Overton window finds particularly fertile ground because we live in a society that is completely imbued with relativism and
and totally lacking in non-negotiable values.

Moreover, since the masses are no longer able to exercise their critical sense, since society is completely atomised, pulverised and broken up, unlike power, which, on the contrary, is organised, it is almost impossible for citizens and the masses to react in a united manner.

Therefore, any idea or social issue that is initially unacceptable can be brought into the debate, made to be accepted, and laws can be changed in their favour with relative ease.

Remember that every idea, even the most incredible and outlandish, always has its window of opportunity.

@reexre - Yeah, I'm familiar with the concept of Overton Windows and, yes, I agree that measures taken in response to this pandemic are shifting our Overton Windows on a number of issues, particularly towards increased acceptance of social control and I agree with you that that shift is undesirable.

Where I disagree is that you seem to view this as a deliberate, if opportunistic, strategy by your government. I don't see that. I see it as simply a side effect of measures that had to be taken to avoid millions more deaths. So while I see these Overton shifts as undesirable, I also see them as a price worth paying, given the alternative.

I also suspect that these shifts will be mostly temporary and short lived. There should be some concerns about what legislation governments bring in while our Overton Windows have swung toward acceptance of social control, certainly, but I suspect our Overton Windows are going to swing back to their positions before the pandemic (or very close) very quickly.

So my position would be, watch for legislative moves that give permanent powers to your government and oppose them. I can't speak for Italy but I haven't seen a single measure in the UK that would meet that description. But don't oppose the necessary temporary powers that are required to minimise the deaths caused by a global pandemic.

This is a slope but not a slippery one. We have agency to dig our heels in and climb back up it at the appropriate time.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

I also suspect that these shifts will be mostly temporary and short lived. There should be some concerns about what legislation governments bring in while our Overton Windows have swung toward acceptance of social control, certainly, but I suspect our Overton Windows are going to swing back to their positions before the pandemic (or very close) very quickly.

So my position would be, watch for legislative moves that give permanent powers to your government and oppose them. I can't speak for Italy but I haven't seen a single measure in the UK that would meet that description. But don't oppose the necessary temporary powers that are required to minimise the deaths caused by a global pandemic.

This is a slope but not a slippery one. We have agency to dig our heels in and climb back up it at the appropriate time.

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Interesting, I understand .... I hope so. Maybe I'm too pessimistic. I see little chance that some things will go back to normal (such as vaccination passport ... and other things).
Just the fact that they have thought about it (green pass) should leave us astonished since even in the mainstream they have claimed that even vaccinated people can be contagious. So this would be useless, but useful for power to move on to something beyond.
I have a feeling that there are strong powers pushing in some disturbing precise directions.
There are already rumors that it will only be valid for 6 months. Every six months go to get vaccinated.
In addition, this thing about the pass, even if it is senseless, would have precisely the purpose of pushing as many people to get vaccinated in order to get more freedom. And easily many, taken for exhaustion, will do it for this reason.

EDIT/Countinue

Another area they are trying to get to grips with is the abolition of cash.
........ News about covid found on POS and ATM surfaces and other object inside supermarkets. ....
https://thefoodmakers.startupitalia....mento-italiano
" The hamburger? “With us it's only cashless”. The first Italian experiment in Bologna
..... The novelty is that here you can only pay by card, debit or credit. Mobile phone is also allowed. Instead, ban coins and banknotes. The digital transition is done. "

.....Anyway, yes, I will try to be more optimistic, thanks for instilling a little more positivity in me.

We seem to have "flattened the curve" but that curve is vaccination rates day by day. Without a surge in supply allocation an effort is being made to rebalance what we have. I see more locations opening including many grocery store pharmacies and local pharmacies in addition to the hospitals and clinics and health departments. The strategy seems to be "move supplies to the willing" to get vaccines administered and avoid supply spoilage.

Grocery store pharmacies and local pharmacies seemed to be the primary delivery point in ID since back in March. I think this is being handled in VERY different ways within the US, which I suppose is understandable.

As to the Overton Window, I would say that in parts of the US, the shift is in the opposite direction from what any sinister actor could possibly want...unless they were both sinister and VERY VERY clever. In Idaho, the result has been a strong attempt by the legislature to deny the governor (both Republicans) the authority to respond to ANY emergency. I felt that he did about as well as he was allowed to do, and they seem to agree, because they want to ensure that he isn't allowed to do anything at all in the future.

I kind of feel that this reflects the state in general. If you ask people here to take some minor action for the good of those around them, a bunch will agree to do so, and a significant percentage will say, "HELL NO! You can't make me do ANYTHING." I get the impression they'd stop breathing if you told them that their breathing would help those around them.

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Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers

I know that mainstream media is not perfect and has its own biases but at the very least they have a set of rules which they have to follow to find out if a story is true or not and you just dont have that on Social Media.

P

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That do not apply in Greece. They paid the media 150mil to do propaganda, not only for covid but for anything the government is doing.
Even if they bombard a house they will say that the house was hosting Godzilla and they where right to do so.

Also since our beloved politicians here are complete morons they do goof ups and expose their agenda.

Some news, specialist in Greece at Salonika Papanikolaou hospital may have found a drug that cures covid. More on the weeks to come...

Don't get your hopes up. Viruses may not have much of a cure the way things like antibiotics cure bacterial infections. A virus doesn't do much until it's in your cell. At that point, what is it that is getting 'cured' exactly?

What they might have is something that reduces one of the pathways that cause harm, such as something that calms a cytokine storm. That would prove to be VERY beneficial, far beyond COVID, but would take a whole lot of study before anybody was comfortable with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I kind of feel that this reflects the state in general. If you ask people here to take some minor action for the good of those around them, a bunch will agree to do so, and a significant percentage will say, "HELL NO! You can't make me do ANYTHING." I get the impression they'd stop breathing if you told them that their breathing would help those around them.

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Any way to gauge how much of that is just philosophy, i.e. lip-service vs. action?

Here I am still seeing strong masking and vaccination action taken in small town areas one might paint as "conservative" vs. much more disregard and vaccine opt-out in cities and university campuses ("liberal"). Both flap their gums in protest of these measures, but one follows through to hang themselves more often. We see this in the rise in younger victim hospitalization now, with the greater population shaking our heads.

In Michigan, more and more young people are being hospitalized with COVID-19, and teens are testing positive at the highest rate of any age group

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"I am putting more patients in their 20s and 30s and 40s on oxygen and on life support than at any other time in this pandemic," Dr. Erin Brennan, an emergency-room physician in Detroit, told The Times.

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"I have a lower threshold to admit when I'm not worried about hospital capacity," Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious-disease expert and hospital doctor in the Pittsburgh area, told the publication. He added that when hospitals were full he had previously sent borderline cases to be treated at home.

But doctors at Beaumont Hospital in Detroit's Royal Oak told The Times that this wasn't the case for them. They said that they hadn't lowered the bar for admission and that some young people had serious symptoms that required hospital treatment.

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Similar scene in parts of Europe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwmgeepfEbc

CDC: Interim Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People

Things are beginning to open up for most of the US.

Been a while since I've poked my head back in to this thread.

Parents got their vaccine today. Process was smooth.

When I heard that younger people are getting much worse cases of Covid now than last year, the first thing that pops into my head is that these are probably people that got it last year and were asymptomatic and probably didn't know they had it. And for whatever reason, getting it a second time is worse. If there is any pattern to that (second infection is "worse" than the first), then society as we know it is essentially changed for at least the rest of all of our lives. Vaccinating everyone on earth every 6 months is logistically impossible.

That's all from me for a while again for this thread.

Good luck and stay well everyone.

They don't take any other defensive measures, they just want to wait for the medicine, and the oxygen tank, and the new crown vaccine.

A more terrible virus occurred, and eventually Ren'ai Reef was greatly destroyed.

Because quarantine hand washing is the most cost-effective way.

We Chinese can build a makeshift hospital of tens of thousands of wards in ten days.
China has a lot of experience in new crown epidemic prevention, but there are so many countries around the world. Just learn from five% to ten methods, if you can learn half, new crown viruses may disappear long before half a year.

The high-speed rail subway is very developed in China. India is still using the railway 60 or 70 years ago. And the train is very old, the railway is also a lot of problems.

So they want to build a makeshift hospital first, first of all, they won't do it, they don't value them at all, and they don't have the ability and the money.

Electricity is cheaper in China than in Japan, which is four times as expensive.

There are many super hydropower stations in China. In India, it took them 30 to 50 years to build a new dam and once it started to release water, it all collapsed.

Electricity is in short supply in India. How can a country do without electricity and roads?

New crematoriums are springing up all over India.Crematoria are being built all over India. I saw on WeChat that the temperature was very high and the machine was very polluted.

Their water is full of virus.Their Ganges water is full of viruses,Their Ganges water is full of viruses, no electricity, and the water is very poor.
https://kandianshare.html5.qq.com/v3...=0&from_app=qb

That's pretty misleading. China has slow speed railways, as well. There's a reason for that: Speed isn't free, or particularly cheap. Some places benefit from high speed, others benefit from low cost. Sure, India has only one of those, but I'm not sure it isn't the right one for them.

Electricity is cheaper in China because the cost isn't priced into it in quite the way it is elsewhere.

Water is full of viruses. There are enough in the ocean to kill everybody on earth. We aren't all dead because our bodies can deal with most of them. We can deal with a certain amount of pollution of other sorts, too, and I wouldn't say that China can say that it is doing better than anyone else on that front. There's a lot of work left to be done.

I hope no pharmaceutical boot is copying this because next year we will forced to vaccinate for water viruses or die! :D

I knew a pharmacist who was so well aware of the viruses in the ocean that she wouldn't go into the water with any open cut. There are viruses in the ocean, that if they get past your defenses, you will die. Frankly, sailors would have died out a LONG time back if our bodies didn't USUALLY handle those viruses.

I wouldn't go getting too much after the pharmaceutical industry on this (a boot??? you have some strange words, but that one I don't know in this context. Would that be a dirty heel?). Up until COVID, there were people lamenting the way the pharmaceutical industry was paying so little attention to vaccines because they were low profit margin solutions. That's still the case, with COVID being an exception because a few countries paid large sums up front for them. Without that, we'd...probably be India, at least here in the US.

Consider rabies (I spelled that with two b's at first, and autocorrect wanted to make it rabbis...HA!): It's almost invariably fatal (there have been a few survivors in the last few years, but only a few), and horrible (it's the closest we come to a true zombie virus), and there is a vaccine that works, but you don't see many people getting it.

I wrote bot, it came out boot.
Meh.

Well as for sea viruses, Greece has many of the best and cleanest seas with lot of Blue flags awards. So I wouldn't worry so much.
An idea that Government may have would be is a Covid seas virus (slogan been "You swim, you dive, you die!"), that will prevent us from going on summer vacations this year and spread the virus...Not.

In any case, if the situation can not be dealt with under control, the hospital will not be able to live in the end, even breathing is difficult.No oxygen, no business, no orders. The funds accumulated in the past have been spent.It's like a person at the beginning of what disease did not go to check, and finally developed into heart disease and cancer, really incurable.

If you can do it again, maybe the Americans and Indians still like to choose quarantine for one month like the Chinese.Then the world will be completely free of the new crown virus in two or three months. 。I have a few pimples on my face now, and I can squeeze out pus.Sometimes such a small problem can make you very painful.

Last year and the beginning of this year, there was a long period of time, often coughing very badly.Even if this is not threatening, but. Sneezing is very serious like a cold, and the runny nose is painful. I am very strange, I forgot to buy medicine, just a few days, I thought it was just a simple cold.

It wouldn't have worked in the US, and especially not with the current climate. A third of the country wouldn't quarantine, and another third would say they did and not do it.

I'm not sure those are as close to 1/3 and 1/3 but more like 1/5 and 1/5, but why split hairs? That's still a lot of diseased bees scurrying back to the hives.

2020-9-28,Indian Ministry of Railways minister, infected with the new crown virus died. Moody's to fly flags at half-mast as a matter of National Ritual.

In fact, Andadi publicly disclosed our own things about neozel pneumonia, as well as many key people infected, Moti should realize the seriousness of the problem. The current epidemic crisis in India has developed to a very serious situation. If it is no longer working, the consequences are even more imagined. However, the outside world is obvious than India, and the Indian government has more attaches great importance to the various conflicts and contradictions of the border than the domestic epidemic.

We found that the general incubation period of this virus is three weeks. so we chose to quarantine one or two months. The sick people either went to the hospital for treatment or died at home.Very few people, they might.
Some people are infected with the virus, but his body is strong and has little effect, but he can pass it on to others, ah, and cause many deaths.


If more than half of the population is infected, as in India, the result is almost 100% infection.
Basically, this is one infection, a thousand.In theory. For every one in a thousand infections in a country, it could be 100%.

What is probably holding China's attention is the fact that India thought they had the virus beaten, too, and were bragging about beating it as China has done. China will respond better than India did, we have already seen that, but it's not over until it's truly over.

Quote:

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We aren't all dead because our bodies can deal with most of them

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https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0713100911.htm

There is strong scientific consensus that viruses were/are critical to human evolution. A large part of out body mass is bacteria and viruses.

Biologists estimate that 380 trillion viruses are living on and inside your body right now—10 times the number of bacteria. Some can cause illness, but many simply coexist with you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TysonLPrice

A large part of out body mass is bacteria and viruses.

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So that's "the science" talking there, is it?

Sorry, I have to go find my eyeballs. They seem to have rolled right out of my head.

Not too sure what that comment is about. It has been generally stated for a long time that there are more bacteria cells inside the average human than human cells. Technically, this may not be true, though, as it depends to some extent on your definition of "inside". For those numbers to add up, I believe that you must include the gut, and the skin surface. Technically, the gut is inside you and not inside you. Since the gut in a continuous tube that runs through the body, we could be seen as doughnuts of a VERY peculiar shape (though we are headed towards the typical doughnut shape, over time), and the gut is the hole in the doughnut. As for the skin, that's more complicated.

So, what are you rolling your eyes about?

What would you consider "a large part?"

I guess 1 to 3% (which is probably high by a factor of 10) must be "a large part" if one doesn't know the meaning of "large."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

What is probably holding China's attention is the fact that India thought they had the virus beaten, too, and were bragging about beating it as China has done. China will respond better than India did, we have already seen that, but it's not over until it's truly over.

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The unfortunate thing is we'll likely never know the actual number of infected people worldwide for a variety of reasons (lack of early testing, high number of asymptomatic people, politics, etc.). Amazing that North Korea still hasn't had a single case, right?

The official number of infections and deaths in China haven't really changed much in almost a year. But if you just look at the availability of products made in China over that same time across many industries, its pretty clear that things aren't back to normal there. Not by a long shot.

I don't think the virus is as deterred simply by national pride as the Chinese would want the rest of the world to believe.

Quote:

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Biologists estimate that 380 trillion viruses are living on and inside your body right now

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That's an interesting number. I hope its 380 trillion cells, not 380 trillion different virus types. That would be surprising.

Some time in the next day or days I'm going to calculate the Covid deaths as a percentage of population for advanced countries. I'm saying advanced countries since some 3rd world countries still lack proper testing/resources/etc and are very unlikely to "waste" a test on a dead person when they have limited tests to begin with, so their numbers are likely to be undercounted.

Any bets on how many standard deviations off the mean China's "official" numbers will end up being? Fairly sure it will be so statistically improbable that the chances of the numbers being real are much less than 1 in Earth's total human population.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dilettante

What would you consider "a large part?"

I guess 1 to 3% (which is probably high by a factor of 10) must be "a large part" if one doesn't know the meaning of "large."

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Well, excrement is probably made up as a proportionately large number of bacteria. What percentage by weight or volume, I couldn't say. However, if we were to assume that excrement is 50% bacteria by volume, then I think there are people walking around who have a bacteria component of about 40%, or more, by volume.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OptionBase1

Some time in the next day or days I'm going to calculate the Covid deaths as a percentage of population for advanced countries. I'm saying advanced countries since some 3rd world countries still lack proper testing/resources/etc and are very unlikely to "waste" a test on a dead person when they have limited tests to begin with, so their numbers are likely to be undercounted.

Any bets on how many standard deviations off the mean China's "official" numbers will end up being? Fairly sure it will be so statistically improbable that the chances of the numbers being real are much less than 1 in Earth's total human population.

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I think the numbers are significantly off for a lot of countries.

But this site might help you.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

It's sortable

Just looked at the Idaho vaccination numbers. Vaccine supply is increasing steadily, and pulling further and further away from demand. Meanwhile the number of people with one dose is starting to level off. We're flattening the curve. Unfortunately, we're flattening the wrong curve, if those numbers are correct. By extrapolation, it looks like Idaho may never top 40% vaccinated. The number with two doses is catching up to the level with one dose, which makes sense. Eventually, those two numbers should very nearly meet (some portion will get the first and never get the second). I was kind of hoping they'd meet up around 70%, but it's looking like they'll meet around 40% by early June.

It may turn out that the red/blue coloration of the states will represent COVID infections.

Perhaps it makes more sense to switch to "allocation to the willing" than as until now, where Feds have demanded "allocation by population density."

Current policy starves one fringe of the spectrum that doesn't want vaccination while dumping excess supply into the other fringe of refuseniks. At least putting supply where demand exists would make good use of the overall supply rather than risk so much waste due to spoilage.


https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations has coarse maps by State but not finer (e.g. by county) which are more indicative of the allocation and waste going on.

Process:

Calculated the Population/Reported Covid Deaths for most of the world.
Excluded China from the statistical calculation due to massive outlier status.

Results:

N = 104 countries
Mean = 6488 (that is 1 death for each 6488 people)
Standard Deviation: 13342

China's value: 1 death for each 303663 people. Or over 22 standard deviations above the mean.

I guess the rest of the world isn't patriotic enough or something. Damn.

Not sure patriotism had anything to do with it. In China, you do what your told or there will be significant negative consequences. Though, that's just a guess. I have no first hand knowledge.

people in the US, UK, EU talk about being in lockdown. Not even close. But people were whining and complaining like they were being held in POW camp. So, we're paying for our freedom with our lives. I'll still take democracy.

Also, tracking software was a requirement.

China doesn't have SkyNet level Hunter-Killers (yet) but they do have big drones they use to circle above people and emit audio admonitions about wearing a mask and not loitering in close groups. Such public shaming probably goes a long way with people who care what neighbors think. No so much elsewhere though where a lot of people know no shame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-eM4IM-PfY

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

Not sure patriotism had anything to do with it. In China, you do what your told or there will be significant negative consequences. Though, that's just a guess. I have no first hand knowledge.

people in the US, UK, EU talk about being in lockdown. Not even close. But people were whining and complaining like they were being held in POW camp. So, we're paying for our freedom with our lives. I'll still take democracy.

Also, tracking software was a requirement.

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You seem to have missed my point. My patriotism comment was said tongue in cheek, and China's numbers are complete hogwash IMO. China almost certainly has had close to or exceeding a million deaths by now.

It started there. Its existence was denied, then obscured (remember when there was no human to human transmissions? If you were paying attention in very early 2020 that was the official Chinese story). China has many ultra-high density population centers (Covid wet-dream territory), and I doubt many people had the resources (food, water, medicine, etc.) to literally barricade themselves behind their doors and stay inside for months.

So, yeah. When people say we should have been like China, I guess they mean we should have just stopped reporting any new infections about a year ago. Hell, Trump might still be in office if that was done. Good heavens.

Don't know what your all worked up about. I never even said I disagree with you. lol

But if your must know, I don't agree with you. I'm sure there numbers are off but not that off. Even China can't hide a million bodies. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

I agree. I'd guess that their numbers are higher than official reports, but not a whole lot higher. They have been slamming closed towns and cities if there is even a hint of an outbreak. I'd say they had a lot of deaths in Wuhan, but isolated areas so effectively that it just couldn't spread far and wide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wes4dbt

Don't know what your all worked up about. I never even said I disagree with you. lol

But if your must know, I don't agree with you. I'm sure there numbers are off but not that off. Even China can't hide a million bodies. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

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The bulk of my post wasn't a direct reply to you or your post, sorry.

As for your second point: see uighurs. Also, I don't get that argument to begin with. Hiding bodies? What are you even talking about? People die all the time, so it happening a little more isn't something that needs to be hidden. They probably have 10+ million people that die each year, so an additional 10% on top of that is easily "accommodated" without needing to hide anything other than cause of death. And if there aren't any Covid cases in circulation, then clearly no one is dying of Covid wink wink wink.

I think the annual death rate in the US is roughly 0.1%, so I would guess that China has roughly 1 million deaths/year under normal circumstances.

Still, they haven't managed to hide much of anything. When they've tried to hide things, they've generally failed. See Uighurs, COVID, Wuhan, Tiananmen Square, Hong Kong, etc. They air their dirty laundry in public almost as effectively as we do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I think the annual death rate in the US is roughly 0.1%, so I would guess that China has roughly 1 million deaths/year under normal circumstances.

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You think or you know... #Dwight
I THINK... #Ryan

It's more like 0.85%. 1.4 billion x 0.85% = 11.9 million

And it should be obvious via one of those "how many ping pong balls can fit in the cabin of a commercial airliner" type "think through it" logic question that it should be around 1%, based simply on average lifespan, and then some mild accounting for the fact that the population is growing, so there will generally be larger numbers of people in certain age brackets as time progresses, meaning the size of the 70-79 crowd and the 80-89 crowd will generally be smaller than the size of the 0-10 crowd, etc.

My last point on the topic for a good while. I should have phrased my earlier comment about a million deaths differently. It wouldn't surprise me if it is that many. It may or may not be. It certainly isn't infeasible though.

And think about it this way for a second. Imagine you are in charge of a country of 1.4 billion people with a pandemic on your hands. You have literally done everything within your power to try to control it, as I truly believe China has done, and has likely done it better than any other country. But what if it still isn't enough? What if it isn't enough because it is logistically impossible to meet everyone's needs but without people coming in contact with each other in groups of significant size? If you are honest, that the pandemic continued to get worse, morale in your country is terrible AND you have a pandemic on your hands. If you declare victory over the virus (but keep the lockdowns in place "just to be safe"), morale in your country is boosted big time (look at how bad the rest of the world is doing! but not us!) BUT you have a pandemic on your hands. Logic alone dictates the latter is the correct decision. High population morale + pandemic > Low population morale + pandemic. I'm not saying its the morally right thing to do, but hell, that might just be a Western concept of morality talking to begin with.

Have fun everyone. Stay safe.

I lied. One more post to demonstrate my point.

Deep Impact (giggity) scenario. A gigantic asteroid is found and is potentially going to hit the earth in the nearish future. The chances of a humanity destroying impact are 80%. Should the public know?

Absolutely not. Here's why.

We don't care about the 80%, because that die has been cast. We only care about the 20%. If disclosure is made, there will be a B% chance that there will be complete societal breakdown. Based on recent events, I'm fairly sure this would be a very high percentage. People will stop going to work, money will lose value, looting, burning, complete chaos, etc.

Results for telling the public:
80% - (Impact) Everything dies
20% * B% - (Miss but society crumbles beforehand) Yay! We survive...but at what cost?
20% - (20% * B%) - (Miss but somehow society isn't negatively affected by foreknowledge) Yay! See, we knew we could handle the truth!

Even if B% is 50%, that still means that half the time we "win" we still lose.

Results for not telling the public:
80% - (Impact) Everything dies
20% - (No impact) Blurb on the news about Nasa spotting a previously unknown asteroid as it skirted past the earth. Some people's interest is mildly piqued before returning to their Twitter, Instagram, or TikTok feeds.

Back to China. The problem is that China isn't a country in a vacuum. So if they are lying about Covid numbers because the truth is domestically worse societally than a lie, it then can lead to a false "good example" to point to and say "we're clearly not taking the virus seriously here in (other country that is releasing honest numbers), because look at how good the numbers are in China!"

Ok. Now I'm done in this thread for at least tonight, but hopefully for much longer than that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OptionBase1

You think or you know... #Dwight
I THINK... #Ryan

It's more like 0.85%. 1.4 billion x 0.85% = 11.9 million

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I was misremembering, and off by a factor of 10. Oops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OptionBase1

Process:

Calculated the Population/Reported Covid Deaths for most of the world.
Excluded China from the statistical calculation due to massive outlier status.

Results:

N = 104 countries
Mean = 6488 (that is 1 death for each 6488 people)
Standard Deviation: 13342

China's value: 1 death for each 303663 people. Or over 22 standard deviations above the mean.

I guess the rest of the world isn't patriotic enough or something. Damn.

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Did your count include Australia or New Zealand? How did either of those countries fare in your analysis?