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My best job I didn't even submit a resume to get it. I was just lucky enough to be friends with a couple who ran a playhouse. They gave me the job of designing and building props and sets for plays when they took interest in some sketches I did for fun. We won awards in all areas of production, that we got invited to perform in Dundalk Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I didn't lose much when I dropped out, but it has helped some of my friends land good jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
One internal job I got, which came with a hefty raise, I didn't even know it was offered. I thought I was talking to the head of research about what I wanted to do with my career. It was only a minute or two before that discussion that he mentioned that it was an interview for an open position.
I'm not sure whether people are starting to realize this or not. I think kids discover it anew every year, but older people never seem surprised. Looking back, I feel rather mixed about it. At this point, I realize that I didn't need to have spent as much as I did for school (a trivial amount compared to what it currently costs). I could have gone to my state school and paid my way. Instead, I took on debt that I paid off only by my early 30s. Since I now know how little the details matter, it would have been much cheaper. On the other hand, my undergrad directly led to my choice of grad school, my choice of grad school directly led to my first job, my first job led to everything else. Had I not followed the path I did, would my life have been better? It's been pretty awesome, so odds against it being better are kind of high. And as to the debt, did it really matter? It's all gone now. What more would I have had I not put the money in that direction? What more do I want? Apparently nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
Still, nobody told me that it didn't matter where I went. I thought there was value for the money, at the time, and nobody corrected me on that. People did know, though, they just didn't tell me.
No matter what you learn in classes in college, so long as it's in science or tech (with a few exceptions, perhaps) it will be out of date within five years. You have to keep learning, and that's what college is partly about. The people who I knew who dropped out, did so because they weren't ready to handle the discipline needed to stick with it. Learning how to self-motivate is one of the bigger parts of college. By grad school, it's ALL self-motivation. The other part of college is learning the social skills to interact, which is where I feel that current colleges are failing. Kids don't get to speak up in HS, for the most part. College is partly about teaching them to speak up, but also about teaching them to let others speak up.
I feel that's true. About any job you get hired for will begin with training. So it's not so much what you learn in college, it's that you completed the task.Quote:
No matter what you learn in classes in college, so long as it's in science or tech (with a few exceptions, perhaps) it will be out of date within five years. You have to keep learning, and that's what college is partly about. The people who I knew who dropped out, did so because they weren't ready to handle the discipline needed to stick with it. Learning how to self-motivate is one of the bigger parts of college. By grad school, it's ALL self-motivation. The other part of college is learning the social skills to interact, which is where I feel that current colleges are failing.
I've often wonder if it isn't partly an attitude of, I had to do it, so I want someone who also did it.
If training is all they want, then why the wish list of technologies in a job application and only the best, brightest, "diverse", and most qualified get hired? Companies are becoming spoiled and it will soon get to the point to where entry level from grads is unreachable unless you have a masters or a PhD.
I am a senior software engineer without a college degree.
I consider myself super lucky because I found VBForums and had members (like Shaggy, JMcIlhinney, Paul, TG, etc.) show me the .NET way rather than the VB specific way which helped me understand the concepts themselves better than the syntax specific stuff.
Who should they hire? The worst, the dullest, the least qualified. lolQuote:
If training is all they want, then why the wish list of technologies in a job application and only the best, brightest, "diverse", and most qualified get hired?
There is a big difference between an entry level job straight out of college and the one asking for 5 or 10 yrs experience.
That was quite common when I began my programming career. I've wondered how often it happens now a days, seems about all colleges have well established computer science departments now. I remember several classes I took weren't taught by professors but by someone from industry. I wasn't a CS major.Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9
I think it helps too that I picked up 1099 contract jobs while I was doing my normal 9-5 before making the career switch. It allowed me to point to projects on my resume and say "hey, I did this on time and on budget."
Yeah, totally this. I'm already there, as you pretty much can't get hired where I'm at (which pays below average, by the way) without either a graduate degree or about ten years working with us at a lower level. Computers were hiring "anybody with half a clue or more" for a long time, but that may well be changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
There have been people writing books about making computer science more "professional". Their definition of that word is...debatable. Their intention is not, as they wrote a whole book about it. Every such book or paper I have seen can be summed up with, "let's keep the riff-raff out."
I expect that it would drive up salaries.
Well since I am a white cis male, I am never getting hired. I'd have a better shot being a gay trans vegan indian :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
[EDIT] I could identify as one though :ehh:
Come on, not the "disadvantaged white guy" trope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
Yeah, nobody is less disadvantaged in all of history.
Ups and downs continue. Still being held off meeting.
Another person offered to listen to my whinging about the situation. Four hour phone call in the middle of the night and now I have two problems.
Might have to go back to being a hermit. I almost thought I'd conferenced calls from both of them together. That's not the sort of three-way anybody would want.
Stay strong, Dil. :)
Yeah. You'd been silent for so long, I was beginning to worry that you'd been buried in a flowerbed somewhere.
Interesting ride.
Just remember in Star Wars IV:
Quote:
Luke: I'll be careful next time.
Random A-Hole: You'll be dead!
Going to have to start calling you Pit Bull. Once you grab hold there is no shaking you lose. I don't know if I should root for you to win or lose. Best of luck, whatever that may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
Yeah, "best of luck" is only truly estimated in hindsight, and even then we're often wrong.