Sentience: VB Game (comments please)

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Originally posted by /\/\isanThr0p
well why don't you put in a fps limit? I really think it would help and it would make the eem to run faster and more stable, since alt+tab would work faster and stuff...
and with the idling thing:
I normally use winamp when I play especially if they are that take a little longer time like turnbased strategy!!
and the processor idling is much better than the processors wasting time. A modern processor uses way less power when idling!

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Then also complain to Blizzard, Westwood, Sierra, Maxis, EA , Mecc, Microprose, Hasbro Interactive, Dynamix, Eidos, Broderbund, Aztech, Diamond, Interplay, and Microsoft. Each of them makes wich use a contintuis 95+% of the processer.

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Originally posted by Gaming_World


Then also complain to Blizzard, Westwood, Sierra, Maxis, EA , Mecc, Microprose, Hasbro Interactive, Dynamix, Eidos, Broderbund, Aztech, Diamond, Interplay, and Microsoft. Each of them makes wich use a contintuis 95+% of the processer.

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maybe and FPS limit isn't that a bad idea since most of the company's u stated here use it :D

But i will test the proc usage in a few games if ya want...

Arb : i have time to test the new version tomorrow (finally)

those games might use it, but not waste it by redraws that are past the refresh rate of my screen!
it is a turnbased game, and turnbased games normally do not use to much of processing power... I have a 1.4Ghz Thunderbird and I bought a processor of that speed (well now it's not that great anymore, I have it for quite some time though) so I can use the speed, so I wont complain anywhere, but wasting processor time does not make to much sense to me!

Thats odd sence when I play CTP2 (Call to Power 2), a TBS (turn-based stratyge), it uses around 95% of my processer power, often jumping to 99%. The part that the is not using is being used by the kernal. I am not sure about the other tbs that I have, as I have not really checked

I must admit that it wouldn't be too dumb to limit the redraw rate to slightly above the redraw rate you set for your screen. But then again, what diffence does it really make if you waste a tiny bit of the processer power on the redraw?

Enough!

The engine is staying as it is for the forseeable future. No caps, no limits, nada.

What kind of sad, tedious people constantly check the processor usage of games? If you have the game, play it - don't monitor it. What a bizarre concept - "Hey, I've just a bought a new game, can't wait to see how much processor usage it has!"

At times, I think I'm losing touch with the computing community.

The underlying rule is:

"Sentience is to be run on its own, with no other applications in the background."

If WinAmp is running, then Sentience is not on its own is it?

There have been loads of problems in the past that I've been unable to fix with Sentience, and just when I was cursing my skills as a programmer, the people having problems let slip that they had 40 applications in the background. And funnily enough, it worked when they weren't running.

So basically, if you can get WinAmp running in the background then great. I'm pleased for you. But if there's a problem with Sentience, I want it duplicating without anything running in the background. Then I'll look at it.

Other than that, have fun playing Sentience, be happy, and don't mention processor usage again. :)

well I never checked for it anyways I just think a framerate limit is a good thing, but as I said if I buy a game I want it to use the power I payed for... but not waste it that's all...
well I think you should put it on the list for a final release...
(it could make debugging easier thouhg)

Whoah. Pipe down in here children...

For now I agree with Arbiter. We don't have a testing team of thousands with in depth knowledge of all the applications that may be used alonside Sentience. Often, things will work with it, but we can't be responsible for testing and debugging as these are unknown circumstances.

Ben. Take a deep breath. They are trying to help, and they are a good team. We've made our point.

All. Stop worrying about the FPS. We may cap it later, but even if we do, its an incredibly low priority job. For now, Sentience works fine on its own. Lets leave it like that...

The kind of person who tests the processer usage of a is the kind of person who shuts down the (in T, I belive) by using ctrl+alt+delete when the locks up...

nice avatar, gaming ;)

:D

The as yet unseen air troops for Sentience.

I know it is nice, and it was easy for me to make too. I was going to go with one of the fraction symbols, but thought this looked better. Just had to scan though all the art for Sentince, then remove the mask and resize it...

I am debating whether or not to take the time to make it transparent.

Remember that the human eye has a maximum FPS of around 24, 30 max, so you could surly cut down from 72 to 60 with negligible difference.

Also, the reason why i was wondering about a smaller version is that i was wondering about a smaller version was because this isn't my computer, and it has no CD burner, so i would have to use 3 disks to transfer it. I will do it anyway.

Thanks for going to that effort for us.

I had previously used WinAce to compress the file which got it down to 2.5 mb, but there's a problem with the self extractor so I had to give it up.

Even so, it would be too big to fit on a single disk.

The game's massive you know. Have a look at the directory after you've run the game for the first time. All of a sudden, 4mb doesn't seem so bad.... ;)

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Originally posted by sql_lall
Remember that the human eye has a maximum FPS of around 24, 30 max, so you could surly cut down from 72 to 60 with negligible difference.

Also, the reason why i was wondering about a smaller version is that i was wondering about a smaller version was because this isn't my computer, and it has no CD burner, so i would have to use 3 disks to transfer it. I will do it anyway.

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ever thought about a lan network ?

Arb : i can't get sentience running, but i allready know what's the problem, i had an encounter with a game that corrupted my directx and vidcard drivers (currently running 16 colors with windows safe mode with network support) :( so you don't have to do test for it :)

Seeing this is not my computer, do you really think i have the choice of whether to get a LAN or not??
Also, as i like to play many games which suit LAN nicely, I have been trying to get one for many years, but Alas :( nothing so far! Although one of my friends has contacts. (Wholesalers that is, not things he wears in his eyes so it doesn't look like he's wearing glasses :) )

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Originally posted by sql_lall
Remember that the human eye has a maximum FPS of around 24, 30 max, so you could surly cut down from 72 to 60 with negligible difference.

Also, the reason why i was wondering about a smaller version is that i was wondering about a smaller version was because this isn't my computer, and it has no CD burner, so i would have to use 3 disks to transfer it. I will do it anyway.

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can you not just download it on your own computer?

I'm only using 56k dial-up and I managed to download it inside half an hour. Set it going last thing at night and it'll be waiting for you in the morning ;)

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Originally posted by Icheb


Arb : i can't get sentience running, but i allready know what's the problem, i had an encounter with a game that corrupted my directx and vidcard drivers (currently running 16 colors with windows safe mode with network support) :( so you don't have to do test for it :)

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Seems to me you've completely goobered your machine there Icheb.

Incidentally, what does Sentience say when it fails to run?

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Originally posted by Arbiter


Seems to me you've completely goobered your machine there Icheb.

Incidentally, what does Sentience say when it fails to run?

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The first time it gave me a bsod, and now, the computer automatically reboots when i try to use a direct x/direct ? app... :(

I'm going to restore everything with an backup from last week, hope i can still use my comp than :eek:

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Originally posted by Arbiter
The amounts on techs may need rejigging, but chances are he didn't have an army to support, special projects running and a small farm of buildings...

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I cant build an army, and i cant build buildings. After I make a building, I try to move it, and I get yet another Error 9.

OK, three questions:

1) Why can't you build units?

2) Why can't you build buildings?

3) Exactly what happens when you go to move a unit. Talk me through the process, every mouse click, key press.

Just a few comments:
1) I like the 'progress' bars -the ones while the map is building- but was wondering why you didn't use one of these at the very start while the game is loading.
2) THe first time i ran the game, i went into credits, and when i pressed OK, the whole game ended.
3) I didn't find a readme.txt file. I may not have looked hard enough, but most games do come with one now.
4) After installing to C:/Senti, and running the game once, i found many .bmp files in my C:/ directory.
5) Just a suggestion, but maybe some background music :)

Thanks for the comments sql,

1) Behemoth will be glad to hear that. I imagine he could come up with a smaller one for the splash screen...

2) Game ended how? Windows error message? Sentience error message? What?

3) And what would you like to see in the readme?

4) Oh yeah, they're for debugging purposes. They actually show a snapshot of players positions of buildings and units at the end of the turn. It was an aid for me to check if the AI was doing it's job (finding people and killing them).

5) Background music is on the way. We have a snazzy music engine planned, but the thing is music takes up a lot of space (for decent music, not midi crap). And as this is only a debug version, I didn't think people would be happy with a 50mb download for 10 music tracks when they only want to test the game.

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Originally posted by Arbiter
OK, three questions:

1) Why can't you build units?

2) Why can't you build buildings?

3) Exactly what happens when you go to move a unit. Talk me through the process, every mouse click, key press.

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Here's the worst, moving buildings after I get them:

1. Make the building. Now its on top of the construction yard. Next, i right click on it and click on MOve Unit, then I click on where I want it to go. It goes nowhere. I take another turn, with still no movement. Sometimes I get an error message with the number 9 on it. So whats the problem?????

PS. The voices in the techs are all the same. "Generic Tech Description".

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Originally posted by Arbiter
Thanks for the comments sql,

1) Behemoth will be glad to hear that. I imagine he could come up with a smaller one for the splash screen...

2) Game ended how? Windows error message? Sentience error message? What?

3) And what would you like to see in the readme?

4) Oh yeah, they're for debugging purposes. They actually show a snapshot of players positions of buildings and units at the end of the turn. It was an aid for me to check if the AI was doing it's job (finding people and killing them).

5) Background music is on the way. We have a snazzy music engine planned, but the thing is music takes up a lot of space (for decent music, not midi crap). And as this is only a debug version, I didn't think people would be happy with a 50mb download for 10 music tracks when they only want to test the game.

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You could make the MUSIC a different download in an add-on style. You get the music and install it to the same directory, and sentinince uses it.

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Originally posted by TimmyBoyVT


Here's the worst, moving buildings after I get them:

1. Make the building. Now its on top of the construction yard. Next, i right click on it and click on MOve Unit, then I click on where I want it to go. It goes nowhere. I take another turn, with still no movement. Sometimes I get an error message with the number 9 on it. So whats the problem?????

PS. The voices in the techs are all the same. "Generic Tech Description".

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You can move units one square at a time using the numeric keypad. There appears to be a problem with the pathfinding when using the move unit command.

The voices are all the same to cut down on hug downloads...

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Originally posted by TimmyBoyVT


You could make the MUSIC a different download in an add-on style. You get the music and install it to the same directory, and sentinince uses it.

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Said that one earlier...
Arb said, and i quote : 'it is a low priority at the moment'...

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Originally posted by Icheb


Said that one earlier...
Arb said, and i quote : 'it is a low priority at the moment'...

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Yeah, I know - sorry guys, but I do have to prioritise things or nothing important would ever get done.

I know I can sound a little evasive at times, but I can't get bogged down in all the little details or things that can be added later.

I am (contrary to popular belief) only human and there are only so many hours in the day I can devote to Sentience. It helps that I sleep less than most others and that I'm currently off work but I'm still limited by the rate at which I can work (which is still superhuman by anyones account).

Both Behemoth and I have other (real) names and other (real) lives as well - we're both pretty social creatures (unusual for programmers/computer bods).

I work as hard as I can, as fast as I can, when I can - but what we're attempting to create here is frankly a mind boggling task for only two people. Civilisation, Alpha Centauri etc were created by a huge team of programmers, artists, managers, sound technicians, actors, cinematic people, testers and so on and so forth. We have Behemoth, myself and the good people on this forum who download and test the game.

If you ever check out the thread in the comms forum, you'll see Behemoth and I (and sometimes others such as Gaming) bouncing ideas off each other and discussing the merits of all the ideas put forward by people who play the game.

Bear with us - the game is coming along (quite quickly I like to think) and every new release brings new things to do and and a more stable environment to do them in.

Just for your info, Sentience has:

37 forms
20 modules
over 32500 lines of code

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Originally posted by Arbiter


Yeah, I know - sorry guys, but I do have to prioritise things or nothing important would ever get done.

I know I can sound a little evasive at times, but I can't get bogged down in all the little details or things that can be added later.

I am (contrary to popular belief) only human and there are only so many hours in the day I can devote to Sentience. It helps that I sleep less than most others and that I'm currently off work but I'm still limited by the rate at which I can work (which is still superhuman by anyones account).

Both Behemoth and I have other (real) names and other (real) lives as well - we're both pretty social creatures (unusual for programmers/computer bods).

I work as hard as I can, as fast as I can, when I can - but what we're attempting to create here is frankly a mind boggling task for only two people. Civilisation, Alpha Centauri etc were created by a huge team of programmers, artists, managers, sound technicians, actors, cinematic people, testers and so on and so forth. We have Behemoth, myself and the good people on this forum who download and test the game.

If you ever check out the thread in the comms forum, you'll see Behemoth and I (and sometimes others such as Gaming) bouncing ideas off each other and discussing the merits of all the ideas put forward by people who play the game.

Bear with us - the game is coming along (quite quickly I like to think) and every new release brings new things to do and and a more stable environment to do them in.

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Sure, most of us programmers dont have social lives. I sure don't and I don't have much luck of getting one...... oh well.

:D

Yeah, thanks guys. We're making good progress ;)

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Originally posted by Behemoth
:D

Yeah, thanks guys. We're making good progress ;)

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Why, thank you!! :D

I think for the next version, I'll tidy the mech design screen up some as some people seem to be struggling with it.

I'll also try and hunt down this problem with the pathfinding.

Ok,
1) Game ended = I pressed the OK button, and similar to what happens when you use the 'End' command happened. I.e. all forms unloaded and quit, i returned back to the windows desktop. (This only occurred the very first time)

2) Readme contents:
-Spesifications
-FAQ (like how do i move..., how do i place a building...)
-Hints/tips
-known bugs
-Controls + shortcuts
Stuff like that.

Also, you mentioned MIDI files as background music. HOw can you play MIDI files in VB. Every way someone suggested hasn't worked. Also, they may seem corny, but the theme to the Pinball game in XP sounds a lot like a MIDI-type song :)

well there acutally is great midis (most classical music) and as far as I know you could just play them with mci apis.

Why not just use direct music? Thats what I did in my game Planet Wars (check my sig for dowload link).

The problem with direct music is that you can't play MP3s. (or wavs, but thats what direct sound is for...)

true but that's little more complicated than just using mci.

Correct. You can play midis with MCI APIs but midis are ****. When playing Sentience I certainly don't want to be listening to Wagner

And whilst DirectMusic/Sound can be used it also increases the download time as all the music files can be downloaded as well.

For the time being, music is not a major problem.

We know music isn't a major problem. But, why should that stop us from discussing it?

I can understand that you don't want to put music (I think it's a good decision) yet, but have you ever looked into mod files anyways? They sound better for games and stuff than midis do!

We're probably going to go with either mods or simply wavs.

As music is going to be one of the last things we ass, the only concern we'll have is if it fits on a single cd, so wavs become more viable. The final product is not going to be small enough to put on the web for download anyway.

And Gaming, you can discuss it all you like - I don't mind. :)

Thanks sql,

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Originally posted by sql_lall
Ok,
1) Game ended = I pressed the OK button, and similar to what happens when you use the 'End' command happened. I.e. all forms unloaded and quit, i returned back to the windows desktop. (This only occurred the very first time)
Weird. Well, I've never seen that happen, so I can't really fix it. If it carries on happening then let me know

2) Readme contents:
-Spesifications
valid point, but most people ask on here before they download it anyway
-FAQ (like how do i move..., how do i place a building...)
already in the game, click help and check out the faqs section
-Hints/tips
as above
-known bugs
It would take me forever to put all them into a text file and the download size would increase dramatically
-Controls + shortcuts
in the game already (in the tutorial screen and the help files
Stuff like that.

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Originally posted by /\/\isanThr0p
hey downloading 600mb would not be to big of a problem for many here...
there is a lot of DSL and cable users and even more college students with fast access at their university!

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Not many...yet.

Well, I've been working on the game a bit recently and I've added accuracy now to the framework, though I'm having a few teething problems with it.

I've tidied the scripts up some more and I intend to make the mech design screen a bit more friendly.

Should have a new version up by the end of next week... :)

yah, that mech design screen is always trying to beat me up and take my lunch money :(

;)

Well, I've fixed the probs with acuracy, stopped the mech design screen stealing lunch money and I'm halfway through implementing the mech visibility bits.

Behemoth's also working hard on now building graphics, new buttons and tidying up the old stuff.

New release should be soon...

when i was playing, i got a run time error 9(i think... it was like 2 days ago and i forgot to post it) message when i entered my password (which was a single space)

oh, and thanks for taking the time to make this game. its probly gunna be really fun when you get all the bugs worked out ;)

hmmm i downloaded the game....my computer is a 300mhz with 60mb of ram and 4mb grafix card. i downloaded your game i changed the screen resolution to 1024 x 728, i put all the settings in pushed genrate the 3 progress bars do their job then nothing happens i alt ctrl del and it says "project1" (not responding") any ideas?

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Originally posted by Arbiter

New release should be soon...

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Arb; i'm sorry for skipping the last release, i've been having problems with school...
I kinda stopped all projects 2 weeks ago, i've been following the thread, i will be back actively within a week. (i hope)

[edit]w00t... 48 pages and counting...[/edit]

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Originally posted by gamezfreakuk
hmmm i downloaded the game....my computer is a 300mhz with 60mb of ram and 4mb grafix card. i downloaded your game i changed the screen resolution to 1024 x 728, i put all the settings in pushed genrate the 3 progress bars do their job then nothing happens i alt ctrl del and it says "project1" (not responding") any ideas?

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did this happen more than once? was anything else running in the background at the time? It does take a little while to draw the map - how long were you waiting for?

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Originally posted by Icheb


Arb; i'm sorry for skipping the last release, i've been having problems with school...
I kinda stopped all projects 2 weeks ago, i've been following the thread, i will be back actively within a week. (i hope)

[edit]w00t... 48 pages and counting...[/edit]

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Don't worry Icheb, its nice to know you're still with us. as soon as you're able to, give the new version a go...

My second 'job' is composing music....ill see what I can write and try to make it fit in to Sentinence's theme, and then send the VB code needed to run it.

Happy Coding

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Originally posted by An Al bum Cover
when i was playing, i got a run time error 9(i think... it was like 2 days ago and i forgot to post it) message when i entered my password (which was a single space)

oh, and thanks for taking the time to make this game. its probly gunna be really fun when you get all the bugs worked out ;)

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Well, not a lot I can do about the error now.... :rolleyes: :p

And thanks for the vote of confidence for the game. Behemoth and I have put a lot of effort into it, and it's only just becoming playable. In another month at the most we'll be able to play you guys at it.... :)

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Originally posted by gamezfreakuk
hmmm i downloaded the game....my computer is a 300mhz with 60mb of ram and 4mb grafix card. i downloaded your game i changed the screen resolution to 1024 x 728, i put all the settings in pushed genrate the 3 progress bars do their job then nothing happens i alt ctrl del and it says "project1" (not responding") any ideas?

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Someone else mentioned this problem and it turned out it was because they had other stuff running in the background.

Close all programs before running Sentience and then try it again. :)

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Originally posted by Icheb


Arb; i'm sorry for skipping the last release, i've been having problems with school...
I kinda stopped all projects 2 weeks ago, i've been following the thread, i will be back actively within a week. (i hope)

[edit]w00t... 48 pages and counting...[/edit]

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No probs Icheb, get your personal life sorted out first - it's much more important.

Sentience will still be here when you get back....

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Originally posted by TimmyBoyVT
My second 'job' is composing music....ill see what I can write and try to make it fit in to Sentinence's theme, and then send the VB code needed to run it.

Happy Coding

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Sounds like and interesting job. Don't bust a gut though, Behemoth's also in a band (isn't he the creative type :p ) and he's going to try to whip up some music over the next couple of weeks.

Code to play it is already in, the music's simply going to be big fat .wav files. If space becomes a problem, I'll recode it to handle MP3's, but that's a way off yet.

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Originally posted by Arbiter


Sounds like and interesting job. Don't bust a gut though, Behemoth's also in a band (isn't he the creative type :p ) and he's going to try to whip up some music over the next couple of weeks.

Code to play it is already in, the music's simply going to be big fat .wav files. If space becomes a problem, I'll recode it to handle MP3's, but that's a way off yet.

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Sounds like fun.;) ;)

[email protected]

hey if the code's already in there why don't you just gave a possibility for everyone to open his favourite wav.. if you don't want to waste time programming menus and stuff just make it so it plays a music.wav if it exists so everyone can copy it in if he wants...

Let me just check, but you should be able to put a sound called

mainmenu.wav

into the sounds folder and turn music on in the options.ini and it will play the tune during the main menu screen (nowhere else yet though).

I'll give it a go and post back

Yep, it works.

It only plays it once though...

are you using direct sound?