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That may be very true but if that's the case then do something about it. I'm not 100% sold on Steiner. After the summer break most team came back with updated cars. I was was watching some of the practices where they were talking about all the different updates but never heard HAAS mentioned once. Maybe I missed it, I didn't watch all of it. To me the team seems very stagnant with no real energy or enthusiasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by techgnome
yeah, great Race from AlbonQuote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
I was supprised that Vettel can also be a Teamplayer
what a terrible Quali. in Monza !!
I wonder if there is going to be any punishment for driving that slow around the Track.
I would turn the Grid around... Max Verstappen in Pole etc...
I really enjoyed this race in Monza.
Nice win for Leclerc
Yeah Leclerc really impressed me. I thought once Hamilton was in DRS range that he would pass Leclerc. A very exciting race. Poor Vettel just couldn't keep it together. I'll be interested to see what happens when they go to tracks where straight line speed doesn't play sure an important role. If Leclerc can continue to get on the podium at those tracks then Ferrari will have a really special driver for the future. Albon did OK but nothing special. It's only been two races in the new car so I'd say the jury is still out on his future.
Singapore, meh!!! If you got to be 2 seconds faster a lap in order to pass then the top six are basically follow the leader. No chance of on track passing among them. Not as bad as Monaco but very little excitement. I was able to nap nicely. ;);)
Turned out I was glad I had forgotten about it ... found it on the DVR .... was able to skip through the boring bits, which was most of it... Still, I thought that Vettel had a pretty good day.
-tg
The race in Brazil was not boring. Vettel messed up again. Honda has upped their power level, and that combined with Red Bull's pit work and strategy gave Max a chance. Gasly had a good race and managed to hold off Hamilton for 2nd.
There was a moment there when I though all of the leaders were going to take themselves out. For one moment, Sianz had a chance at taking the checkered. A lot of the first half was a bit of a drag, but the last part, it did get interesting, then Bottas's engine bewup... then things got interesting. And as the saying goes, yellow breeds yellow.
Merc could have had the chance, but their strat of "What ever RB does, we're going to do the opposite" didn't pan out.
-tg
I'm I the only one who is starting to think Vettel will be gone from Ferrari after his contract expires in 2020? the Vettel/Leclerc team doesn't seem to be working. Vettel is still one of the best but Leclerc seems to have more potential.
I don't think we will see Vettel in a Ferrari 2020, that must be the dummest thingQuote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
he has ever done
I was thinking that Ferrari would not resign him, not that he would leave by choice. But he might leave by choice if Ferrari wants him to stay just to help Leclerc win a championship.
Vettel has had a few similar moments over the years (including the big one in Turkey with Webber), so it isn't too surprising it happened, but as he is getting older and losing some of his speed/mindset it isn't looking good. Luckily for him there aren't many decent replacements, so Ferrari may well want to keep him for a while, and even if they don't he will still have options elsewhere.
It was surprising to see Hamilton make a mistake of a similar style too (albeit on a much smaller scale, and at least partly due to the surprise of how fast Red Bull were), but it was good to see him quickly take responsibility for it (saving stewards time, and letting the other guy relax). The punishment pushed Lewis down a few places, so Sainz got promoted to third, and my team McLaren got a few more points... which means they will finish fourth in the championship, after a few bad years :)
Hi SiQuote:
Originally Posted by si_the_geek
just seen the Birthday list from Today, and your one of them
so Happy Birthday :wave:
Thanks :)
It's a shame there's no race today, but I'll find other ways to entertain myself! :D
well soon the season 2020 will start, and Ferrari is allready in the news
... did they cheat? with there Fullsystem... I mean Red Bull, Mercedes...etc.. did find
it strange how fast they were on the straight in the last season.
well I think the did something !
It is a bit concerning... after an extensive FIA investigation the 2019 Ferrari power unit "could be considered as not operating within the limits of the FIA regulations at all times.". Ferrari have denied wrongdoing, and the FIA couldn't prove it well enough so have backed off. It all implies that there is some trickery which only operates under certain conditions that the FIA couldn't determine/replicate.
However, the FIA has issued various rule clarifications and "will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 Power Units for forthcoming championship seasons", and as punishment Ferrari will be "helping the FIA in its research on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels"
At least one analyst thinks that Ferrari have lost power compared to last year, so it seems to be only last year (when they didn't win) that is affected, and this year should be "clean".
There isn't long to the first race of the season, and I'm sure we'll get a clearer view then - of this, and lots of the good stuff this season will give us :)
Sounds like maybe they had the Schrodinger manifold installed.Quote:
Originally Posted by si_the_geek
-tg
Sounds to me like they collaborated with Volkswagen.
I hope Ferrari keeps a power advantage, it's the only thing that made them competitive with Mercedes. I'm sick of the same person/team just running away with the championship every year. I can't remember when the last 3 or 4 races of the year really meant anything except winning a race. Probably was when Rosberg won the championship. Looking forward to the first race of the year, I just hope it's not a repeat of the last six years.
It would be nice to see it more competition, i am a Hamilton fan to be honest i think he is a terrific racer but if Ferrari and Red Bull at least are close it makes for better races.Quote:
I hope Ferrari keeps a power advantage, it's the only thing that made them competitive with Mercedes.
Its been the last 2 years that have really been uncompetitive as Bottas has been no where near him in the same car.Quote:
I just hope it's not a repeat of the last six years.
I just hope they go through with these regulation changes they keep talking about, it would be nice to see the smaller teams actually be able to compete a bit more.
Yeah it's gets really annoying for me because I'm not a Hamilton fan, don't know why, just not. But I do think he's a great driver, like to see what would happen with him and Max in the same cars. I also have a lot of hope for Leclerc, thought for his first year in the Ferrari he was impressive. I think a good rule would be the driver gets a one spot grid penalty for each championship they have won. Would make things much more interesting. OOOR another brilliant idea would be to have one driver from each team drive the course Clockwise and the one driver from each team drive the course Counter Clockwise. Instant excitement!!!!
I dont understand why anyone wants something like this surely the fix is simple, make it so the teams can properly compete on money terms. There will still be better and worse teams but it would be closer and you would get less predictability in results.Quote:
I think a good rule would be the driver gets a one spot grid penalty for each championship they have won. Would make things much more interesting.
Death Race !!!!Quote:
OOOR another brilliant idea would be to have one driver from each team drive the course Clockwise and the one driver from each team drive the course Counter Clockwise. Instant excitement!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
naaaaaah....Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
HERE's what you do.... everyone qualis in their team car... then, 30 minutes before lights out, all the car number are put into a hat, and each driver, in grid order, picks a number - an that's the car they have to drive for the race. That would truly show if it's the river, the car, or the combination, that wins races.... put Hamilton into a (what used to be) Force India car and see what happens... Then again... Perez in a Merc??? Could he handle that much power? O.O
-tg
And add one yugo into the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by techgnome
Driven by the Stig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
-tg
Oh dear, it looks like this season might be shorter than most...
Australia has been cancelled (inspired by an infected team member)
Bahrain/Vietnam/China are "postponed", and there will be attempts to fit them in later in the season
...and currently: "it is expected the F1 season can begin at the end of May." :(
While it is obviously disappointing to miss out for a while, peoples health matters more, and I hope everyone will be OK.
Crap!!!! Now this is getting serious. Sunday is usually my day of rest so I fix a late breakfast, a large one. Kick back in my recliner, watch racing/football/golf and couch potato out. With all the sports being canceled I'm gonna have to get creative. Maybe they will show reruns, I could work with that for a few months, my memory is shot anyway. With no sporting events you got to wonder what is ESPN going to be doing?????
I was looking forward to watch the Australia GP :(
Wes had a good Idea and I just watch a rerun of the World Cup game
Brasil vs. Germany where we hammerd them 7:1
was fun to watch, I wonder if the EM soccer will take place this year?
Would be very strange if those big events will take place this year.
Our national olympic comity has forbidden all sport activities, being it competition or training!
So at least 3 weeks of no real training, beside what individuals can do at home.
I can image no EC soccer for 2020, no Olympic games this year
Lots of things have been postponed (and should be), but strangely the Olympics don't seem to have been yet, even tho that is arguably the most important thing to postpone due to the global nature and high number of competitors.
Well at least there is some good news on the Formula 1 front during this period...
The teams are temporarily switching their rapid high-tech manufacturing skills/equipment over to making equipment like ventilators for the UK health service: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...9TpI6MRRt.html
As for the rest of us, the official F1 website is showing various race replays, and more importantly:
starting tomorrow there is an E-Sports version of F1, including some of the actual drivers: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...j1IDMeiOi.html
The Virtual Bahrain Grand Prix is "from 8:00pm (GMT) on Sunday March 22".
just seen the News in Germany
and there is talk about Vettel going to Mercedes :eek:
now that is going to be an intresting pair.. Hamilton and Vettel...:rolleyes:
That would be interesting. Last year might have humbled Vettel enough that he could handle being Hamilton's wing man. But it doesn't sound like a great match. I guess with no racing, you got to find something to talk about. Let's start those engines, I don't care if there's no fans but I imagine that would be a tremendous lost of revenue for those venues.
I don't think Vettel and Hamilton in the same team would be good for either of them, nor for the team... in recent years Lewis has been far more on-form than Seb (and is likely to stay that way, especially in "his" team), and Seb is the kind of person who would get angry and spiteful when he becomes second best in the team. They would both end up feeling bad in different ways, and the team would need to put in lots of effort.
Seb would be better off finding another team that is good at the time (which is getting harder with various drivers contracts being signed already), or just calling it a day. As he has been fading a bit over the last few years, I suspect he isn't as keen on sticking around - especially if there isn't a "good" team available for him.
They are getting close to having things ready to go without the fans present - it is basically about governments agreeing to races (with each team isolated and tested) in their countries now.Quote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
I don't know what will happen in terms of funding the venues, but I'm hopeful that the sport itself (and/or governments etc) will step in to help financially where needed.
OTOH, i have fond memories of Alain Prost vs. Ayrton Senna......Quote:
Originally Posted by si_the_geek
or Nigel Mansell vs. Nelson Piquet.....
Those were before I started watching F1, but I have seen several videos about them... just like with the 2007 battle of Hamilton (in his first year) against Alonso (who had won the previous 2 championships), those pairings were good to see because the drivers were at a similar level and both on top form.
Unfortunately I don't think Seb can bring himself back to his best, and even if he could I don't think he'd be as good as Hamilton is these days... I think if they were together then Seb would be likely to do the kind of team-sabotage that Alonso did (eg: blocking Hamilton in the pits for so long that he couldn't compete in qualifying).
It would be nice to have that kind of battle again, but I think for a while the battles will be primarily between drivers of different teams.
I'd like to see a real championship battle or at least a different champion. What's it been 4yrs in a row??? Since Rosberg. And a Mercedes driver has been the champion 6 or 7 yrs in a row.
Yeah, but if you remember: When M. Schumacher changed to Ferrari, he was the driving force behind Ferrari to produce a competitive car, and when they achieved that, History was written.
So, in that case, i agree, that Hamilton is probably the best driver, currently, who can give the correct feedback to the team.
I remember a quote of Nicki Lauda regarding Schumacher (at that time): "Michael Schumacher is the driver with the shortest wire between ass and brain" (Literally translated from german language)
Bad news Today, and really sad... Williams is up for Sale
what great drivers the had..Prost,Hill,Villeneuve and many more
it's about time that those engines are running, and some money starts
to come in for the Team's
Considering it cost @ 285 Million per team a year for 21 races (10 team= 2.85Billion), I'm amazed anyone can afford it. With no money coming in, I wonder if the FIA might help. These teams have made many of them very rich.
WOW, didn't think is was that muchQuote:
Originally Posted by wes4dbt
the FIA should Help, the German Gov. is just saving Lufthansa Airline
well as of next year in Germany, you can only see Formula1 In Pay-TV (Sky)
damm!!:mad:
what's it like in other countries ? Free or Pay
Here in the US, it's "free" if you "pay" for cable subscription that has the appropriate channels that carry it... this year it was ESPN carrying the SKY broadcast...wait.... I meant, last year that's what it was... I'm not sure what this year it would have been... not sure what next year's SKY's pay wall will bring for us... but I suspect that this year, I mean last year, will be the last year I watch F1 live anyways. Probably Indy too. I'm actually considering a satellite option that will cut my TV costs in half, add a couple channels I don't currently get, but will drop pretty much all the 24/7 sports channels there are out there... which, in reality is fine with me.
-tg
well I will have to get Sky next year, I wonder if that would include Indy also
don't understand why they want to bother with Races this year, well they want to start..
I think the 5th of July... so let's wait and see
The UK was supposed to have that last year, as part of Bernie Ecclestone's deals... but the new owners of F1 have an eye on building the fanbase for the future, so on free TV we had highlights of all races, and one live race.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisE
Everybody involved wants to do it (even if only to pay the rent), and the fans want some entertainment to take their minds off the state of the world for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisE
It's not gonna be the same as usual, but with all the virus testing etc it should be safe, so I'm looking forward to having happy Sundays again. :)
F! is gonna have fans? Been watching NASCAR and really the only bad thing about not having fans is at the end of the race everything is quiet.
There wont be fans at the track, we'll have to put up with just watching from home etc... but seeing as that is how I've watched almost every race, I'll cope.
The lack of crowd noise will be a bit disappointing, but I suspect that apart from that it will be almost completely normal, so it should be good.
yeah, I'm starting to have withdrawal symptomsQuote:
Originally Posted by si_the_geek
For the football on Sky they have an extra channel with added crowd noise, at first i though it would be weird but i actually found the normal coverage with no noise where you can just hear the players shouting at each other worse. Its added crowd noise for me :thumb:Quote:
The lack of crowd noise will be a bit disappointing
Austria 2020
I hope Ferrari will remember that disaster:blush: for a long time, I wonder what
they have been doing in last months
probably just looking for a new driver, but no driver is going to win a Cherry-Muffin with that car
it should really be the Teamchef Binotto leaving and not Vettel
Already looking like a Mercedes runaway season again unfortunately. I was hoping Red Bull would pull out 2nd place in the team championship, but they have some work to do if that is going to happen. Great race otherwise!
Red Bull aren't the fastest, but were actually looking really good - both of the drivers had a good chance of winning via strategy, they just couldn't finish the race.
From reading between the lines of what the teams said, Red Bull and Mercedes actually had the same kind of problems going on, it's just that Mercedes worked it out in time to do something about it (tell the drivers to avoid the kerbs).
As the next race is at the same track, both teams are likely to do better with the issue, but both be a bit slower... which could be worse for one of them than the other (and if other teams are fine, they could be 'faster' because of it).
Ferrari weren't brilliant, but they still did reasonably well. Vettel seems to be back in rookie mode again, which isn't good for this season or his possible future seat in the sport.
The effects of the virus safety measures weren't too bad... the lack of crowd made a minimal difference, and interviews being via video messages was fairly minor, but the biggest thing for me was the drivers always wearing masks (even for the podium interviews when they were over 2 meters from anyone else).
Ah well, it's all a minor detraction from having the good stuff back :)
Yeah I think Red Bull has a real good chance of being second in the team championship. Seemed faster than Ferrari but I agree it looks like another Mercedes runaway.Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
I bet Mattia Binotto is gone from Ferrari by the end of the month. They need someone in that position that will kick Vettel in the butt and tell him he's not out of the seat yet, and will tell LeClerc to grow up and stop making dumb mistakes.
Mercedes runaway season confirmed. Red Bull looked ok. The mid pack battles (in team standings, driver standings, and lap by lap) look like they will be where all the excitement takes place this year, which I guess is better than nothing.
I think you're being harsh on Leclerc as the gap was there, he just unexpectedly bounced off the kerb. Ferrari in general (and Vettel specifically) are not looking too good tho, hopefully they will sort it out quickly.
You are probably right about the midfield being the thing to watch, and it is looking rather good - especially Lando having magical final laps in the two races so far.
I really want to see Red Bull succeed and contend with Mercedes consistently, but now Alex Albon seems shaky. I just hope they don't have to do another mid-season seat change like they did last year when Albon got the seat to begin with.
Looks like another Mercedes 1-2 tomorrow, at least the final podium position has the potential to be battled for by numerous drivers.
I would consider myself a slightly better than casual F1 fan. I do watch every race, and try to keep up with possible seat changes, but I don't follow nor care about the nuances of rules as far as development of things like brake ducts. So all this stuff of teams filing grievances against other teams for skirting those rules isn't something I've ever paid attention to.
Now, based on some of the commentary from this past race, it sounds like in the off-season (or possibly during last season), Mercedes filed some sort of complaint against Ferrari, things were investigated, the results are confidential, and now this year Ferarri sucks.
My conclusion (rightly or wrongly) is this:
1. Ferrari was doing something outside of the rules last year to increase performance, they got caught, they had to remove those changes. And now they suck.
2. And this is more speculation than anything, but it makes me think that Mercedes is also skirting the rules (or outright cheating). The best way to know someone else is cheating is if you are cheating and they are still beating you sometimes.
Being a Nascar fan, I know that in Nascar all the big name teams push the limits, skirt the rules, or even cheat, so it isn't like my similar opinion of F1 tarnishes my viewpoint of the races. It happens in every major sport at the highest levels.
Well that wasn't the most exciting race... the main highlights were actually before the race started (Max crashed on his way to the grid, and Bottas almost started too soon so he started too slowly instead).
Ah well, we have Silverstone to look forward to next, and that is usually a good one :)
Correct... but they weren't technically "caught" (because it was too complicated to find the details of what they were doing), but the rules and testing methods were clarified in a way that made Ferrari stop (and pay a fine). We discussed it earlier in the thread, from post #136 onwards, including this gem:Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionBase1
Quote:
Originally Posted by techgnome
Not quite... another team (Racing Point) legitimately buys several parts including engines from Mercedes, but this year the Racing Point car looks far too similar to last years Mercedes for it to be an accident.Quote:
2. And this is more speculation than anything, but it makes me think that Mercedes is also skirting the rules (or outright cheating). The best way to know someone else is cheating is if you are cheating and they are still beating you sometimes.
However, a closer look at the similarities makes it seem that it isn't a direct copy, just a deliberate imitation of what was the best car of last year. It is questionable how far they've pushed the limits (or how much involvement Mercedes had), so it is being looked into.
It is worth noting that Haas do something similar with Ferrari (and that is allowed), so I don't think this will turn out to be a massive issue.
F1 is well known for pushing the limits, and they even have an unusual system to help avoid cheating.Quote:
Being a Nascar fan, I know that in Nascar all the big name teams push the limits, skirt the rules, or even cheat, so it isn't like my similar opinion of F1 tarnishes my viewpoint of the races. It happens in every major sport at the highest levels.
When teams are thinking about doing something new, they ask the governing body for permission (if they just put stuff on the car they can be banned for 1 or more races, which hurts more than the potential benefit). If the new thing is allowed then only the team asking finds out, but if it isn't allowed then all the teams get told. Due to that, the teams ask a simple "teaser" question first, and repeatedly ask slightly more advanced versions until the governing body warns them they are at the limit of what is acceptable.
Obviously that isn't enough so there are many other systems too, including 'public' and private reporting of concerns, along with tests of various kinds during and after every track session. Some stuff slips thru for a while, but things tend to get found out in the end, like last years Ferrari engine. The Racing Point (aka "Pink Mercedes") issue has been raised quickly, so if there is any punishment it is likely to be small.
I'd say for the last eight years. It's a lucky thing I love racing or I wouldn't bother to watch.Quote:
However, a closer look at the similarities makes it seem that it isn't a direct copy, just a deliberate imitation of what was the best car of last year.
I am impressed with Point Racing, looks like they're going to be giving Red Bull a run for their money. Shame Verstappen isn't in a Mercedes, must be hard knowing year after year the best you could hope for is second in the championship.
don't know what has happened to HAAS, had a great first year and has done nothing but go down hill. But still they make no driver changes and Steiner is still there.
The top place in the championships hasn't been particularly exciting recently, but there are lots of good things going on behind them (especially Red Bull/Racing Point/McLaren), and there are still good chances for people like Max to win races fairly regularly.
When the new set of rules come in (now pushed back to 2022) it should spice things up quite a bit, and due to the design of the rules it should be more even, so we get closer car designs and therefore closer races and championships.
Haas seem to me to have two major problems. The first as you say is the drivers, Gro-crash has never been great, and K-Mag doesn't have proper competition within the team to make him try harder. There are lots of drivers in the lower formulas, so it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement for at least one of them.
The other issue is that they rely on Ferrari, who have a long-term habit of providing lower quality parts to other teams (when they just supplied engines, those teams were slower than teams of similar budgets); Hass seemed to get a better deal, but they did too well initially and therefore were a threat to Ferrari themselves, so I'm assuming the parts quality has reduced.