John Lennon said it best "god is a concept, by which we measure our pain"
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John Lennon said it best "god is a concept, by which we measure our pain"
Karl Marx put it better: Religion is the opiate of the masses.
George Carlin put it best: Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.
There is a difference between believing in God and subscribing to an organized religion. In fact, if there was a God he/she/it would definitely not support the organized religions which are mostly aimed at attacking people who don't believe the same as you do. The real irony of this is the people who proclaim to be Buddhists and practice Buddhism in temples. Buddha definitely would not approve of his ideals being used to create an organized anything.
Yup.. wasn't that the 11th commandment?Quote:
Originally Posted by mendhak
I want to thank all you VBForums members that disagree with me. You are helping me to burn out my dross.
Quote by Funky Dexter
I get what your saying, but i am not arguing about peoples belief in god.Quote:
NSA, you're still falling into the same trap. Your challenging a theist to give you a scientific/logical response to the question "Why do you believe in God" but you're missing the point that, for them, the answer to that question is neither logical nor scientific; it's fundamental. The answer is "Because I do".
Equally, incidentally, the answer to the question "Why are you not a believer of the existence of God" is "Because I'm not".
My argument is not to do with belief in God, but more to do with other beliefs that surround it like creationism and other theories which are just nonsense and i believe can often quite easily be countered by scientific arguments.
When the religious people reject science because it goes against a 2000 year old book of questionable origin it just strengthens my non-belief but this is why I have more respect for some of the philosophical systems like Confucianism and Buddhism because they do not refute science in any way however I don't think they promote the idea of a specific God entity either.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
Another intriguing fact about the Christian God is that without any form of hell he wouldn't exist. While Heaven is offered as the reward for living a virtuous life, hell is the penalty for being bad and the organized religions mainly use fear tactics to keep people returning each week and putting money in the offering plate. Without the penatly of hell people would put a lot less money in the plate each week.
recently my niece wass mauled by a miniature pincer. my wife was praying and thanking god. i said what for? she said for her surviving. i said if god exists he made her get mauled and have her bottom lip nearly get ripped off. thank him for that.
my biggest issue besides this is there are gay animals.
gay animals? what about just animals in general?
we are so similar to them, yet our only real advantage over them is brain size. We aren't the biggest or the strongest, we don't live the longest (still, despite all our scientific advances), we don't adapt well to surroundings (we adapt surroundings to us), etc.. I could go on and on. Pretty much the ONLY thing we are better at is thinking, and even that gets us into trouble, like making us think the fact that we are smart means we are above all other life on this planet and were made in the likeness of a supreme being.
If that is the case, chips must have been made in the likeness of gods hairy cousin.
Look, my thing is I think there could be a God(s) or not, and his alignment in our value system (for me secular human rights) is uncertain. Unless human rights can be proven to be a universal absolute, there is no reason to believe God would have the same values and culture as Humans have (all of which are results of cultural and biological evolution).
If there is a God I'm pretty sure:
1) He doesn't intervene (except maybe for large scale turning points in history), and never for cases of personal justice.
2) He is NOT any of the Gods depicted by current religions, this can be proven by disproving the Religious text, they are all absurd, self contradictory and often times cruel while professing their God to be benevolent.
Are you for or against gay animal rights. Do you think same sex animal marriages should be allowed or do think all animal marriages should always be between a male and female animal of whatever species?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
marriage was invented by christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by EntityX
I am in favor of civil animal unions.
Also, i don't think the earlier posted pie chart shows anything besides the fact that at the most, only 16 percent of the population is correct, and most likely only 2.2% is. Cuz let's face it, even if 98% of the world believes in a god, it's not the same one as everyone else does. Remember the scene in southpark the movie where everyone was in hell? Only one sect of christianity was getting in heaven, while baptists, etc were going to hell.
Mallard ducks are homosexual necrophiliacs (scientifically proven fact). They clearly believe in life after death; or should I say creating life after death ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EntityX
It couldn't be more silly unless virgins were promised. Where do all these virgins come from anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTech
as for the rest...
Your statement shows clearly that you are merely anti-christian. Either that or you have no idea at all what any other religion believes in. Off the top of my head, the Druids, Jews, and Muslims all have a bible much older than 2000 years so you weren't talking about them at all.
if something is proven, it is called a fact, not a theory. Now please explain the big bang theory and why it is better than any other one. It has in fact been discredited in most of the scientific community but it is still taught in schools. The only piece of evidence there was for it is the universe is supposedly expanding, although they base this on red-shift of light waves which also happens when they travel great distances through a vacuum. Who's to say there isn't another reason for it? When they say "we dont know where the rest of the required matter for our theory to work (77% of the mass of the universe is supposedly never-seen "dark matter") then maybe just maybe they are full of crap. In creation theories, there is not a shred of evidence that makes a creation being any less valid. As far as anyone knows, the universe was pooped out by a giant turtle.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers
as a duck collector, i find that insulting. You were clearly referring to Turkeys, which have been demonstrated to try to mate with anything, including severed turkey heads on a stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Nope, it was definitely ducks. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
sounds like a misguided attempt at cpr to me.Quote:
picked into the back, the base of the bill and mostly into the back of the head of the dead mallard for about two minutes, then mounted the corpse and started to copulate, with great force, almost continuously picking the side of the head.
Point_1:
one thing to be said, science should delivered us to believe that God is really exist, at the end, with science, human can achieve in prudence. I don't believe this universe runs by it self without ' something ' taking care of it. And thats why holy book must be base for science, holy book that can't support sciences is questionable, we can't find any details for science in holy book, but we can find a point/directions for sciences,that's why we got mind to seek further,human can't created things that never exist before,human just can do modifications and combines things with sciences,sciences without faith is chaos,and faith without sciences is empty,both of em cannot be separated,it must support each other, so human can find em selves in balanced.
if u are very smart in sciences, then think of this :
- why there's sky for us ?
- why there's clouds, moon, stars, seas, mountains,ice,land,trees,rain,other organism etc
if u have all the answers on how they relate each others, then GOTO Point_1 again. ( if u really genius in sciences, can't u see the system ? then u'll be asking ur self, who create that system(s) ... ? )
to believe in God we must have our heart,mind and our actions in straight-line. The heart as the king, mind as minister and others as soldiers.
God don't need humans, but humans need God. God NOT forcing human to believe ' his ' existence, but with mind that God give to us,we'll find out that THERE is a God.
its not a doctrin, because you'll seek all the answers obey ur selves.
we can't think the form of God, this is the edge for human mind and logics,so why we can be so arrogances and despise God ?Quote:
Say, `(The fact is) He is Allâh, the One and Alone in His Being.
`Allâh is that Supreme Being Who is the Independent and Besought of all and Unique in all His attributes.
`He begets none and is begotten by no one.
`And there is none His equal.
and yes, i am muslim, alhamdulillah Islam is my religion.
You are in denial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
how can a duck do chest compressions? they have to do something? and we have one witness to this thing. it that's all it takes to make it true, redneck alien abductees everywhere have been vindicated
He even took pictures of the act taking place: www.ducknechropiliia.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
vertigo I like your post. I believe all religions lead to the same one God and I also believe that every path leads to God even atheism. Keep on being a good atheist and I say some day you'll become a believer in God's existence. Of course the atheists will disagree with this.
Devil worship also leads to God. The devil worshipper will eventually realize that devil worship is no good and will turn away from it to something better. People only seeking happiness through material channels will eventually realize that that will never satisfy their soul and will eventually realize you have to seek within yourself to find God's joy within to satisfy you. If you think things like sex, food, money, possessions, fame, movies, music, video games, etc will satisfy you then keep on seeking happiness in that way and sooner or later you'll realize that you want something better than what all of that can give to you. You might be then ready to start seeking God. Those things I mentioned aren't evil in themselves but our souls want something perfect. Only God and nothing less than God will completely satisfy us. We're all going to come around to that whether it is sooner or later.
Paramahansa Yogananda said, "Because Satan breaks his promises to give lasting happiness to his followers, they will all finally turn away from him to God."
satan actually allows people to do things they want to do, such as out-of-wedlock sex. You should read acts and romans in the new testament. it is pretty much the early church elders discussing what they should make the tenets of the faith. In the beginning it wasn't enough to believe Jesus was the son of god and died for your sins. Back then you had to give the church everything you owned and then work for it. Then there was the hours of praying, etc. But they didn't want to scare away other nationalities from becoming members, so they modified Jesus's teaching to suit.
There is a reason the first 4 books of the new testament are the ones normally quoted, and out of those 4, there are a couple of glaring inconsistencies, even down to what the final words of Jesus were.
Modern chrisitanity glosses over the vengeful and vindictive nature of their god. Remember the plagues? Well even Jesus, who advocated "turn the other cheek", exacted revenge on a tree because it didn't have a fruit on it.
But that's just something you made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by EntityX
This is how religions start. Somebody just makes something up because it sounds good, and people start believing it as if it were true. That's if it isn't someone making stuff up to make money or gain power through religion (Ron L Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Muhammed, Taiping Rebllion leader).
And the comment you just made is something that you just made up. And the universe is just something that God made up. And VBForums is just something that someone else made up. And whatever is said in chit-chat is something that whoever made up.
The islamic faith only began in 700 AD. Loads of people seem to think it's older than Christianity but it's not. In fact it's an offshoot of Christianity. It doesn't recognise Jesus as the son of God but does recognise him as a prophet. It basically takes the view (and I'm simplifying here) that Mohammed came along 700 years later and corrected some of the miss-interpretations of existing teachings. In essence it's Christianity Plus or a biblical erratta.Quote:
and Muslims all have a bible much older than 2000 years
It's worked so farQuote:
If you think things like sex, food, money, possessions, fame, movies, music,video games, etc will satisfy you...
I like the Greek gods better than any of the Christian ones. I'm going to start up my Thor cult again. Have to stop in the comic book shop to pick up some of our religious texts. Much more interesting to read than other religious texts and in full color!
please don't mock a religion that is pro-mead and mutton.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTech
Yeah, I tried that excuse myself....it didn't work.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
Scientists only made up the Big Bang, no one has seen it and yet some people believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx
But, can you honestly not see anything wrong with that comparison? For instance the fact that the scientists also back up their claims with arguments as to why the big bang theory could be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
wow ... this place really amazed me with a bunch perseptions of yours :)
but, i've had enought with my believe right now, being a moslem is the very best thing in my life, and for all of u, the atheist here ... i've had no comments:)
- logic maybe something .... but that's not everything -----
( walking out .................................................................. )
regards all,
Noone ever saw the dinosaurs roam the earth either but we believe that happened too because that is how science works, you come up with plausible ideas and try to prove or disprove them. It is quite different from religion where someone writes something in a book so thousands of years later people are supposed to believe it is so with no proof at all. There is not even proof of who wrote the religious texts in the first place, could have been written by crazy people or developed on a website like VBForumsQuote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
this is actually a good example. If you open some old textbooks (and i mean 100 years old) you will see their pictures of what dinosaurs may look like do not even slightly resemble what they look like now. They had extra bones where they didnt belong, etc. In one case skulls were on wrong species. The fact is they know NOTHING. As far as anyone knows, dinosaurs had feathers. They can't even agree on whether or not they were warm blooded. Some scientists have postulated that a bronosaurus was too long for its brain signals to reach its tail therefore it must have a 2nd brain halfway back. Google just this one issue about them. You will find people saying that it wasn't a second brain, that it was the stegosaurus, that it was three different dinosaurs that all had two brains, etc. If they can't agree on the lifespan, color, diet (some claim tyrannosaurus was a scavenger), then what exactly ARE they agreeing on? My personal theory is they were dragons.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTech
There are dinosaur bones which proves the existence of dinosaurs, and all of these are all proofs of the existence of God which created them, the only problem is that some don't believe it to be so.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTech
So just because the bones exist, it means that God created them? That argument doesnt hold up.
Just because there's a particle cannon in my bedroom, does it mean I created it?
I am of the belief that only God can create so no, I don't believe you created that particle cannon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist
So do you think the dinosaurs all went to heaven?Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
In all honesty I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTech
They didn't make it up out of thin air. True they didn't witness it, but they theorized it from existing measurements. You can look it up, but basically because of the color-shift of the stars, they realize that the Universe is expanding around us, which means it might have been a single point at the beginning of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u