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Well, I got Vista Ultimate Sp1 running on my Quad Core with a SATA300 drive, and I'm in heaven.
I love how people knocked previous versions of Windows and the lack of administrative access control, but when UAC hits the scene, the other group of people complain about it.
In all honestly, except for debugging a website in VS2008, I hardly ever need to elevate permissions.
As a slight hijacking, I hate the debugger for VB 2008 Express. Or something about the code compilation. it's just deciding it isn't going to go all the way through a loop. Doesn't even hit the Exit line. Just stops. and angers me very much.
Ok, how do I go about getting SP1? I have search and search and SP1 seems to a well guarded state security. I assume that it is still in beta testing?
Mark
I picked up Vista Ultimate Sp1 free at the Microsoft's "Heroes Happen Here" event last week in Chicago.
http://www.microsoft.com/heroeshappe...r/default.mspx
From what I see, it is supposed to be available to the general public through Windows Update in mid-March (althought it won't automatically be downloaded until mid-April - you'll have to manually check for updates to get it Mid-March).
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...vista-sp1.aspx
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...vista-sp1.aspx
Im confused now...Service Pack 1? Isnt it already released? I got it through windows update recently.
No, you're not confused.
Being released to manufacturing and being available for download mean two different things.
Either way I can tell you that, by itself, SP-1 is not available yet.
You do need to notice how its stated that hardware issues, probably like HPs built in webcam issue mentioned earlier in this thread, is the problem of HP as MS mentions that many hardware manufacturers are not installing their drivers correctly or do not have their drivers certified for vista.
simple benchmark searches will show you the 5 to 10% difference in speed in equal systems (depending on program running).
Server pack 1 is being released for 32-bit only in select areas until it's widely available this month. All of my 32-bit systems got it through automatic updates.
Thats weird as they stated it wont be available through automatic update until mid April. Whats out now that I see is Vista with SP-1 already applied.
They also had 64-bit on Windows Update for a brief period. There was a secondary update freezing some systems so they yanked it for a while (for both 32-bit and 64-bit) so I may have received it then but I remember reading their original plan was something about specific areas getting it first.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Though, I think I'm using automatic updates and windows update interchangeably. Do'h
Okay, so assuming SP1 fixes all of the driver issues.
Assuming I can disable the UAC for my power users (how by the way?)
And assuming that I test all of my legacy software and it all works.
What does Vista give my users that will justify the cost/hassle of upgrade? (Again: This is a geniune question - I am interested).
Like I said before, with previous versions there where very good, very clear reasons for businesses to upgrade; with Vista, I'm struggling to see one.
vista has an improved task manager that has a services tab, and they are linked to the processes tab. Other than that, aero is eye candy and the rest of it can be done with add-ons in xp, including the 3d-window switcher. Even the graphical alt-tab although it doesn't work as well as the vista one.
I like how CTRL+ALT+Delete works in Vista, it brings up a full-screen window with some options on it, rather than just the taskmanager. The good thing about it is, if a fullscreen game (like most games are) freezes, pressing ctrl+alt+delete will immediately get you this neat window, whereas with windows XP....i cant remember how many times I've gone furious because pressing ctrl+alt+delete seemed to have no effect, as taskman started up behind the game window.
So the rest of Vista's features can be done via XP add-ins? Sweet! Where can I download the new Kernel, shadow copies, media center, IIS7, prefetch, tablet, instant search, updated components, etc add-ins?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
And how much of your memory would you actually like to use? If you have that stuff running, you probably don't have much free to do what you actually want to do.
Not? When i had 1 gig of memory I could run everything I wanted. Then I could take a break from what I was doing and play Call of Duty 4 without closing anything else. No problems at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by timeshifter
Ctrl+Alt+Del in Vista behaves exactly as it does in XP, 2000, and NT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist
Edit: Unless you've got the friendly welcome screen on. I'm used to the domain workstation configuration which is the classic NT behaviour.
But then, Vista still suffers from the exact same problem as XP in that Ctrl+Alt+Del interrupts things nicely, but opening the task manager boots you straight back into user mode.
Still not seeing any deal clinchers here for taking the hit of upgrading 100 (work related) desktops. I realise the managers might be playing games on their p.c.'s, but they probably won't want to admit to that. :)
Where are the business related reasons? Like I say, previous upgrades had excellent reasons (instability/lack of drivers for the older OS's), but they did such a good job on XP that I'm finding it hard to justify moving away from it just yet?
Any reasons greatfully accepted!
Microsoft will stop supporting XP in 2014. That's one reason to upgrade at some point over the next six years.
Reason #2 is ... :confused:
Why Upgrade to Vista
I never knew XP had that feature. Must've been well-hidden.Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Kernel: I was unable to find any information saying it had a new kernel. where did you get this information?Quote:
Originally Posted by kasracer
Shadow copy is not a new feature. It was introduced in XP service pack one and Server 2003. See this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Copy
Media Center comes in Vista Ultimate and Home Premium. The difference in cost between that and the standard install (up to nearly $300) can easily be spent on a 3rd party solution such as PowerCinema.
Tablet support comes in xp professional and is built into the language bar.
XP has prefetch. If you are going to argue, at least get the terms correct. Vista uses Superfetch, based directly on XP's code. The only difference is that Vista monitors how often a program is ran and gives the most-often ran ones precedence. See this link: http://members.rushmore.com/~jsky/id37.html
Instant Search: Here's the Microsoft download link for you for XP: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
Updated Components: Not sure what you meant by that, but Media player 11 works on windows 2000, let alone XP and so does Internet Explorer 7. The anti-virus and firewall are either in the latest xp service pack or a separate download. Here's a 3rd party 3d-task switcher that i've personally used:
http://www.otakusoftware.com/script/...t=topdesktrial
which also has the option of doing it the much-improved OSX way of shrinking all windows onto the screen at once.
IIS7 This is so far only available on Vista and Server 2008, but that is bound to change. And in any case that probably isn't even an issue for most users. I don't even have IIS installed on any of my systems. It's considered by microsoft to be an "optional" windows component.
It's not 100% new but quite a bit of it has been re-done. Here's the first link I found by typing in "Vista kernel" into Google: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/m.../cc162494.aspxQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
Not sure why you even mention this... It was put into 2003 and works rather well but the one in XP is temporary storage. it's not persistant which makes it kind of worthless. Though I'm curious as to how I can access these shadow copies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
I've used several media center applications including FrontRow (if that can really be considered one), ATi's and MythTV. Sorry but, IMO at least, none of them can compare to a 1st party solution. I tried PowerCinema previously but it wasn't as user friendly as Media Center. Sorry, just couldn't get used to it but that may be more of my opinion than an actual flaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
Vista and XP Tablet Edition come with additional software applications specific for touch screens. I don't remember my copy of XP having such things. Where are they? I've looked through the language bar but never saw anything specific to tablets so I must have missed it but surely it can't have everything the tablet edition has, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
I'm not arguing. Meanly conversating :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
Thanks for correctly my word usage but I thought that's what the project manager of Vista called it. Oh well. It's still better than XP's so ++Vista :p
Cool. Does this intergrate into the start menu so you can press the windows key, start typing and go? If so, that could be useful for my XP machines that I cannot upgrade yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
I'm referring to the newer low level components that have been re-written including the networking stack. Many of the re-written components make them much easier to maintain so I don't think there is any kind of XP "plug-in" for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
What do you mean? Possibly shoe-horning it onto an older verison of Windows? I didn't think anyone was able to do so with IIS6 and XP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
I never did ask about plug-ins for DirectX 10, user-level drivers (XP has them in the Kernel space, :yuck:), unified desktop compositing model, etc...
My point is, you can't shoe-horn XP to be like Vista. Believe it or not Vista has some great changes that put it above XP. Unfortuantely I feel most of them are too low level for most users to really notice.
Regarding the release date of Vista Sp1:
From what I understood, pre-existing Vista systems with drivers installed that are known to cause issues (or are not certified) are not going to be automatically updated until Mid-April. If Windows Update reports your system has compliant drivers, you will most likely get it or be able to get it right now.
This will give the manufacturers time to fix their drivers, have them available before SP1 is pushed down automatically via Windows Update.
There probably isn't a reason for you to upgrade. But, much like the decision to buy a car is usually a willful one, so is the upgrade to Vista at this point. You might not need a new car, but everyone will at some point be in the mind to purchase one. When you do, you might as well as get a new(er) one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfDemon
Vista may have some new technology in it that makes it better in some regards, but there is still plenty that needs work. The new OS is due out at the end of '09 and that may end up being my new purchase. That is, unless i fall in love with server '08 (i am currently running server 2003 x64 core).
Not familiar with the changes to the core, but if they have actually improved the driver model to stop BSODs then that is one improvement that was a long time coming. however, XP64/server 2003 already includes this driver model and i am personally glad it does because it was almost impossible for me to find drivers for anything until vista was released.
DX10: Don't get that started. I personally find it hard to believe that a set of files that access the hardware directly are required to be OS dependent in any way. Just the fact that DX7 runs on vista tells you something. So does 8. 9 does with minor changes. It couldn't be THAT hard to convert it backwards. There's even an open-source movement to do this. It is actually in microsoft's best interest to do this, because if the open-source version should prove successful, that opens the door to running directx software on other OSes.
As for purchasing a new car, fact is that it is never economical to do so. Just how much auto-repair CAN you do with a year's worth of payments, let alone 5 of them. Keep that used car like-new, and come out ahead. Nevermind the fact you're required to have full-coverage on a new car (while making payments)
So by that logic you are willing to spend thousands of dollars on rapairs during a signle year on a car that is 10, 20 or older years old? :rolleyes: It will only be worth a couple of dollars so why dump all that money back into it?
Vista came out in early 2007. The next OS wont be out for several years still, not in 1.5 years. Then by the logic and mentality mentioned in this thread you wont install or purchase it until it has a SP-1 so you will have to wait even longer. Then another OS will come out and you wil put it off again as the sysle continues on. Just be like Nike, Just Do It!
Thanks a bundle :thumb: I was actually looking for that info and couldn't find it. I'm guessing my laptops (being pre-installed Vista with known driver problems) are probably going to be mid-April. My users will be very happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by nemaroller
Unfortunately I don't want to get into the corporate nightmare of having two different computer systems to support..... trust me, it's a nightmare. I do think Microsoft missed the boat a bit on this one. So far most of the major improvements that have been metioned don't really apply to the business world. If I get some time over the summer I'll build myself a new system and it will have vista on because I want to play some stonking DirectX 10 games. But other than that it seems to be performance and stability. Well, neither has been a problem for business p.c.'s for the last 2 years. Even our CAD users aren't even beginning to push the performance limits on their dual core and quad core p.c.'s. I can't honestly remember the last time we had a driver related problem on XP (we go out of our way to only buy kit with solid driver support).Quote:
There probably isn't a reason for you to upgrade. But, much like the decision to buy a car is usually a willful one, so is the upgrade to Vista at this point. You might not need a new car, but everyone will at some point be in the mind to purchase one. When you do, you might as well as get a new(er) one.
The servers are a different kettle of fish. We have a mix of 2000 and 2003, and it would be nice to standardise them all, but from what I can see we will probably wait and see what the next O/S brings for the business desktop and jump through all the upgrade hoops then. (Because by then XP will be going out of support).
Strange but we did something similar with Windows 2000. We started getting prepped to upgrade from ME and NT (to Windows 2000), and pretty soon it became apparent that a newer version was coming down the pipe (XP). So we upgraded all our servers from NT to Server 2000, but left the desktops until XP came out.
that's assuming you actually WOULD spend thousands of dollars on repairs. I own a 1986 lincoln town car and have only had to replace the battery, the tires, one mirror, the thermostat, and rebuilt a window motor since i've owned it. I have had it four years. And it's pretty well worth now what it was when i bought it. Try saying that for a new car you buy after it leaves the lot, let alone four years later. After that time you would probably have replaced the tires and battery in a new car as well. Our truck is a lot newer and we have put more money in it than the car, including a battery.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
On a side note, i just off-loaded a 1983 Ford Thunderbird to a guy for $100. It ran fine. He's 17 years old and decided to not listen to my advice "license it and insure it". He took it out driving the next day and got it impounded. The impound fees are twice what he paid for the car.
How odd that a linux/mac vs vista thread was closed and referred to this one.
Vista being consumer driven, but Server 2008 will have a heavy uptake by the web marketplace.
Our Win2k3 servers are great, however the new integrated managed pipeline available in the new IIS7 on Win2k8 will be a performance enhancement to some situations we can simply not take a pass on with our high volume sites. And engineering is excited about the new features on MS's new server OS. I don't know specifically what their excited about but I'm not a network engineer.
As far as the car analogy, I was more thinking along the lines of while you can spend less money on a used 1980's car - at some point the improved technology of a new car will make you buy one: ABS, Traction Control, side-beam crash protection, side-curtain airbags, higher fuel efficiency, etc.
the fuel efficiency would be an issue if i drove more than 7 miles a day. As it is i get 20mpg. It may be 1986 but it is multi-port fuel injection.
I drive a 95 Corolla and pull 36 mpg on the highway, about 25 in town. Fuel efficiency is a thing of the past, it seems.
Note all cars are lemons. I have my Ford that I bought brand new and havent put any money into it for repairs of any kind. It runs great and still on the original battery (almost 7 years old now).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
FYI, Action Pack Subscribers
Yes, as I mentioned SP-1 is available already with Vista together.
Just today I got SP-1 notification on my Windows Update. So I will be prep'ing to install soon. I dont want to install it until I am ready. Need to download the Management Console that gets removed with SP-1.
:( How come I don't see any SP1 in my updates?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
I got mine last night.
:cry: Vista hates me
See Nemarollers post below.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianMayrhofer
Ours haven't appeared either, but I suspect that is because of the inbuilt web cam driver problems. Prob mid-April for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemaroller
Regarding the release date of Vista Sp1:
From what I understood, pre-existing Vista systems with drivers installed that are known to cause issues (or are not certified) are not going to be automatically updated until Mid-April. If Windows Update reports your system has compliant drivers, you will most likely get it or be able to get it right now.
This will give the manufacturers time to fix their drivers, have them available before SP1 is pushed down automatically via Windows Update.