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i got called a liar too
paulw we really have things in common now
seriously jdavidson
you dont know squat about islam
and you pretend you know, i told you a trillion times if you want to know REAL islam
you read the Qur'an
and as far as you being insulted
hmm like i care
cus i am being truthfull that you dont know squat about islam
You said I used scripture about the validity in the bible. That is not the case and you know it. What I know about islam is what I have read from the site you told me to learn about it. I am being truthful about what I am seeing. Its very easy to say all the other scripture are corrupted but amazing enough muhammads book isn't. The whole foundation of what you are believing is founded off those original scripture since they were the beginning of the faith, but now they are all corrupted so how can you accept Muhammad as a true prophet of God when you have no basis to validate what he had to write and say with Gods word of the past. If they are then everything muhammad wrote has no validation or if there is a conflict you can now say thats corrupted. Thats too convienent. No where does my bible do that and if I found that the book of muhammad stays with the scripture then great, I'll look at considering him a prophet of god, but to go and say theyare corrupted with no real proof other than muhammad says so is really paphetic. I'm willing to bet there are plenty of conflict between the original scriptures and those of muhamad. What I would like to know is how did the muslims get the so called book of jesus if he was never outside of the now country of isreal(the jewish nation) but the jews to who he was preaching never got this book. You say the trinity does't make any sense. Neither does that. And this isn't based off of the bible but historical records. Go and look for your self. I think you are lacking the adaquate knowledge to there kovan.
Well we really are showing off the best side of Christianity and Islam, aren't we?
I'm taking my ball home.;)
Cheers,
Paul.
jdavidson
ok so you only know what you read of that site
and you claim what you read of that site is to be PEOPLES opinions.
so why dont you read Qur'an (muhammad did NOT, i repeat NOT write qur'an)
then when you read the qur'an and learned what God said not what people said
then you can come back and we can have a nice well mannered debate,
and what book of jesus are you talking about?
if your talkinga bout the bible (which muslims believe in)
that was a bible from God(doesnt exist today)
paulw
you threw the towel in too soon :)
so you do use the new testament. My understanding was there was a book written by jesus. and the book of muhammad was written by who if not mahammad? Doesn't that now follow the same type of scrutiny that the gospels are?
Satans two definitions,
either you can choose your own, the image that every single religion have of him, if they have, the bad-guy personification, or you can choose a simple concept:
The dark side of free will. And the sides are of course the course the classical evil and good.
With this definition devil could exists independently of any god, but instead depend on if you define your will as free.
Now i hope you don't mix these two definitions!
On a side note god does not imply the existance of devil either, since god could have created a load of machines instead, but whats the *****ing point in that?
no i dont use the new testiment
old, new,
the ONLY thing we use is Qur'an and the examples of muhammad
Qur'an being the absolute
can you please go read about islam instead of making assumptions
keda.. what?
my head hurts to think of any other devil other than some guy in finland.. hmmm
hehe
Hehe kovan, that wasn't any surprise, i'm the finnish devil!
Think that there are so many devils that aren't connected to religion either, so *** are we talking about?=!
Well, if i had a quran at every local book store i would get one at the moment but I cant because there arent many in the US. What I saw on the site was the injeel, the gospel of jesus. where did this come from? who wrote it? and quit telling me to go read the quran. That is going to take forever. And the quran is not what god said. I have tried to avoid this the whole time here with you but you insist on making it a matter of you are completely factual in your faith and that is a lie. If you want to say the bible is what people say then thats fine but the quran is just as much what people say. This is what is really angering is a total disrespect of everything outside your little world.(am I sounding like genx now;)) I have asked you questions about the quran and you keep telling me to go read it. Its going to take a long time to read that book. The torah alone will take a month at least. Is there a reason you don't want to explain this? How can you prove that muhammad was a prophet of god if you have no uncurrupted scripture to compare with? You can't, you strictly have to go by what he said now which is what most cults do. Just like the mormins ignored what is written in their scriptures to accept the return of christ in america. I accept Jesus as God because I can reference him in the scriptures of the past. They tell of his coming and all the tests to show him to be who he is. he has passed these. Maybe muhammad was a prophet, maybe not, I don't know for sure until i read it. But you are being very close minded and arrogant by stating that Your book is the word of god.
All I have tried to do is come to an understanding of what you believe and why. From what you have showed me so far is that it is a farce. A lie. Everytime I say anything about a christian belief you call it a lie all essence, I listen to what you say and ask questions and comment, you say go read the quran. I server The true living God, I know this for a fact. I can tell the stories of things he has done for me, but you wouldn't believe them if I told you and its not worth me typing them up for you. If you are so concerned with spread the word of alah and the truth, you sure are lousy at doing it. I hope the rest of your religion is not like that.Quote:
then when you read the qur'an and learned what God said
i told you this before
i would GLADLY answer your QUESTIONS
the only reason i said go read the qur'an is
because WE belive its not anyones opinion
and so if you read it and try to to undrestand islam from that prespective
and the Qur'an is in arabic so have fun :)
but anyways
muhammad came and said this is the book
take it, i dind't write it, read it, examine it
and then decide who its from
and thats exactly what i was trying to do with you
go read the book, examine it, question it,
ect then decide who wrote it
i have LIMITED knowledge of the quran
infact i dont know .00000000000000000001 % of it
when you get into it you will know what i mean
but to be able to question something you must know what to question first
dont you agree?
if you gonna try to prove that muhammad was not a prophet out of the BLUE then i really dont know what to say to you
you have to have FACTS on why you think so
and when you bring those facts to me
i would GLADLY try my best to help you out
remember your first email that you sent me?
you asked me if you could as me questions..
and i said i would gladly answer any of your questions to best of my ability
i still am wiling to do that
i just have ONE question, so i know how to approach this
Are you willing to learn about islam for knowledge base
or are you trying to prove islam wrong?
reason why i ask is so that i know how to help you with your questions
and from reading my own threads
i have gotten carried away...
now i think i am back to normal so if you like to DISCUSS islam, ask away
To be honest why I am asking, I don't really know. I think its a little of both. Part curious of what it say and part want it proven wrong. I do appoligize for my outbursts, I got out of control, i was just frustrated. I will try and read the quran if I can find one and I agree that you should read and come up with your own conclusions. That what I tell people about the bible. When I emailed I was interest on finding out if there was an online bible so I could take a look and reference those scriptures you posted before but I guess there isn't an english version and to translate it for me would take years...
nobodys listening? well i'm out then
Kovan,
I'm not through with you. I just don't have time right now. And seriously, questioning my intelligence only puts a question mark beside yours.
Jethro what is your problem. How have you shown me any rhetoric. You haven't shown me a damb thing yet as proof and if you did it was probably so stupid that it wasn't worth listening too. I have never avoided anyquestion that I am aware of on here and maybe you disagree with my view but to sit there and behave the way you do is wrong. no wonder nobody listens to you. I have stated what my christian perspective is that is all. you have a problem with that tough but don't say that I am telling stories. You are an immature individual. But then again you probably don't like me and you don't even know me. I have never insulted or degraded anybodies beliefs on here, atleast not intentionally. I have asked question and attempted to understand those belief of others but you make these sloppy logic statement and you have no reason to say them. You don't know jack about christianity and I expect that from a catholic. SO just shut up and go play in the coner like a good boy before you say something you regret. All I have asked for is answers and now you all think I am the antichrist himself. What a load of BS.
You think you can tone it down a bit. Not be so on fire with this. This is part of the reason we get such a bad rap.
Well quit making inferences, If I call somebody a liar then I flat out do it. I don't do hints.
Have you even read through the bible. I mean straight through. Not a chapter her then a verse there. Most of the catholic I know including priest have never read the thing and go strictly with what is taught which is wrong half the time.
Edwin - There is a BIG question mark besides mine
the question attached to it is
"Is Kovan REALLY that smart?"
the answer of course is YES
if you dont believe so
we can do this the democratic way and have people vote
but seriously, i did question your intelligence, i still do
cus you just have been blinded and only look at it from ONE prespective..
blah blah no need to argue with someone who lacks intelligence
Jdavidson
hmmmmmmmmm attaching jethro is not good
Gen X will show up out of no where and defend him.. (will he?)
but your right when you say it will take you forever to read Qur'an
if you REALLY want to learn about islam
keep asking
if you dont then quit asking cus honestly i have better things to do then answer long questions that just do no one any good
about me being a arrogant ***** comment
i am the type of person who usually slams the insulter with a bigger attack... but i will let you suffer of feeling bad
haha
Kovan-
I guess I am trying to understand who wrote the books at the moment. Did God himself write them? How do you validate Muhammads authenticity with out previous writings or scriptures, that are uncorupted? I guess the corrupted scriptures thing confuses me since they are pretty much the foundation that should be used to support muhammad.
I wasn't trying to actually insult you, it was the way you were behaving at the moment. Others have told me the same thing. All I want to do is try and understand. I appoligize for insulting you. Lets continue
[Edited by jdavison on 11-17-2000 at 08:23 AM]
since your interested in learning
lets start off with how islam started...
then you will get a better idea of exactly what islam is and how it came about
if you read ANY history (non islamic even)
you will clearly see that muhammad could not READ or WRITE
.. but lets continue with the BASICS
listen to the following
Start of Islam
That link didn't work.
I'm still trying to figure out were I called Paul a liar. Can somebody show me were I did? If I did I don't think it was intentional.
[Edited by jdavison on 11-17-2000 at 09:33 AM]
you have to have real audio player to listen to it
its a sound file
i just tested it
it works fine
Yep, I got the link to work but the ram file wouldn't run. I'll see if I can just download it first and try it again.
i have a cd of this at home
i will send a copy of the cd to you
Jethro,
I've reviewed what I said and I don't get it.
What about the other Christian churches? e.g. Church of England?Quote:
There are exactly two mainstream religons who believe in Satan and possession.
1. The Catholic Church.
2. I believe the Jewish faith.
I have no knowledge of islam's belief in this....kovan come on down!
That is what I meant when I said you were being a bit sloppy - it was meant as a joke, but boy, the flames are a bit hot from here.
I was trying (badly, obviously) to make the point that people were making flat statements that would accept no contradiction.
Lucky I am an exemplary Christian, otherwise I wouldn't be so forgiving...
C'mon thats a joke...
P.
P.S. You probably will burn in Hell, of course, you're an Aussie...<GRIN>
I think everything is cooling down now actually. Paulw if I called you a liar anywhere, I do appologize. That was never intended. I have found you comment very openminded and interestinging. I hope you can continue with us now that we have straightened out some issue that were interfering.
Jesus! You lot all need to chill the **** out. 'cause your all gay anyway (and those of you that are gay, are all straight)!
Come on then, give it some large ;-)
td.
tumb what you been smoking? care to share?
always splash the ash mate ;-)
td.
Kovan,
"but seriously, i did question your intelligence, i still do
cus you just have been blinded and only look at it from ONE prespective..
blah blah no need to argue with someone who lacks intelligence"
If that is true, than you are just as blinded by YOUR looking at it from one perspective.
i dont think i am blinded to look at anything from one prespective,
i read about other different religions
and i am ALWAYS open to learning about more different ones
and idiologyes and belief systems
but what i meant is,
if i say anything that you dont like
you go run to your corrupted bible and quote from it
like you kelped asking me is Jesus telling the truth
i said YES, but not according to bible since bible is NOT his word
but still you kelped quoting "i and father are one"
i already TOLD you i dont believe jesus said that
so if you have any other sources of info to prove this i am WILLING to hear it, but i dont want information from a corrupted text book