So am I...Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Printable View
So am I...Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
I can always scroll down to get the answers, even though I've never answered a question there. I registered sometime last year.
Re Firefox:
I am using Firefox for almost one month. I was an Opera user for almost 5 years.
I must say, I'm disappointed with Fx. Even with Fasterfox it can't beat Opera's speed. I have installed imgLikeOpera extension to speedup page loading, but many times it misses images, even if the image is in cache.
From a VB developer's point of view Fx is prety much useless. The only thing I've found for VB is Mozilla ActiveX Control, but I couldn't get the DOM from it. IMO, Fx is good for only JaveScript guys, which (unfortunetly) I'm not.
Another problem I faced when trying to make an extension is that, we need to learn all those other 'gui' file formats. And there is no program to automate the task.
But, no other browser on earth can give me so much features (with extensions).
I guess I'll stick with Fx for personal use and may be someday it will beat Opera. :p
But for developing applications, I'll stick with IE.
Exactly, that's what I heard from some "Java guys", they like how FF shows error, line, source when debugging Javascript.Quote:
Originally Posted by iPrank
Yes, Fx was definitely not made to work with VB. It uses a different component model, for example, which is probably the reason you can't get the DOM.
But Gecko and all the other components of Mozilla are a development environment in their own right.
Yes. That's exactly my point.
Fx uses a completely different programming model. Here in VBF most of us are COM/.NET programmers. Many of us even don't know any other platforms.
What surprises me most is, Why WE (MS technology Application developers) are so exited about Firefox ?
- It is nothing but another browser.
- To Firefox developer commnity, we are simply end-users. Fx doesn't support our native deleveloping platform. (or is it only me ?) We can't use it in our apps.
- It will not help in our career (unless you are switching to non-MS or you are a web developer).
- Most likely we will not make any money (directly) from it.
How many of us are interested in learning JavaScript/Fx file-formats, only to write some cool extensions ? Specially when you are not web developer ? I'd rather invest that time to learn .NET.
For my 'user' part, Fx is a 'cool' thing. But for my 'learner/developer' part (if there is any :p) , it is useless.
It may come as somewhat of a surprise to you, or shock even, but not all developers use Microsoft technologies... and not all of those use VB, either.
Unlike Microsoft products, Firefox does not use any proprietary formats, the extensions are written in XUL (a simple application of XML, which is a basic knowledge all developers should have) and Javascript (ditto).
A browser will always present limited development scope unless you are using it for web development - that's what they're for...
And, lastly, software development need not be primarily about money.
Hack's original post...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack
Hack - I'm curious - have you been hugely swayed in one direction by all these posts?
Firefox certainly does get good press by many of these posts here (so it is cool). And the FF group certainly hates IE - and that bias makes it difficult to use them as a "double-blind-study-group".
Did IBM switching to FF make a big difference to you?
Have you had your MS cornbread this morning? ;)
Well said. LOL :DQuote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Yep. I know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Before we start another war, let me rephrase my question, :p
My question is, why MS Application (network or standalone) developers are so exited about Fx ? (I don't have any doubt/question about other developers)
Many of my friends never coded on anything except Windows, yet they are so exited as if Fx is the next big thing since 32bit PCs.
Most of them are working on MS platforms, others are doing MS certifications. They can't give any good reason why they like Fx as a 'developer'. The most common answer is "its cool man !". I guess it is only their 'user' part that is exited.
PS: I'm neither an IE-hater nor an IE-lover. Though I'm dating Fx now, I still love Opera deep inside my heart. ;)
As a developer who just downloaded it (to find out what the fuss was about), the only thing I really liked was the DOM Inspector.
As for everything else, it just seemed cosmentic. I did spend 5 minutes cursing VBF's server because I kept clicking "New Posts" and the screen wouldn't flicker. As a "set in his ways" IE developer/user, I expect to see the postback. :sick:
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPrank
Call me a MS technology Application developer again, and I'll smack you...;)
In the end, for a end user, it's not how the app was made, but how it works for the user. It could have been written in Cobol for me, and I would still like it. JS, XUL and the Mozilla API is just other programming languages and technologies...in the end the prinsipp is the same, and the end user won't notice....
- ØØ -
I think from from reading most of the posts that FF renders pages a bit better but it also has a lot of toy features that makes everyone go "Oh FF is cool!". Maybe its psychological but I think FF is slower with all its toy features. I like IE and have used it for almost 10 years now. My kids have FF on there system and I tried it and I dont like it. too much crap, cant download with a progres meter or tell it to go where I want without making some setting change. It appears to be nothing more then a fad that is slowing down.
Newsflash: NoteMe is an MS technology Application developerQuote:
Originally Posted by NoteMe
* iPrank ducks under table *
Point noted. Thanks. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NoteMe
Didn't get the developer toolbar, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenhalo
You mean, you WANT your browser to be slow? ;)Quote:
As for everything else, it just seemed cosmentic. I did spend 5 minutes cursing VBF's server because I kept clicking "New Posts" and the screen wouldn't flicker. As a "set in his ways" IE developer/user, I expect to see the postback. :sick:
Is there something special about MS developers? Are they somehow a group completely cut off from the rest?Quote:
My question is, why MS Application (network or standalone) developers are so exited about Fx ?
Although I think you're right that it's mostly the end user in them that's excited, I still see no reason not to be excited about a new technology, just because it's not by the same company that made the technologies you currently work with.
Wrong. Firefox has practically nothing in this regard, unless you explicitely install it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
I think all browser speed issues are psychological. I have never experienced any relevant difference in browser speeds among all browsers I've used. Excluding versions, that means 7.Quote:
Maybe its psychological but I think FF is slower with all its toy features.
Like?Quote:
I like IE and have used it for almost 10 years now. My kids have FF on there system and I tried it and I dont like it. too much crap,
Um ... not sure right now, but I believe there's a progress meter by default in the download manager. It also displays the average completion percentage of all downloading files in the taskbar, and gives you a notification when it's done.Quote:
cant download with a progres meter
Best 30 seconds you'll ever have invested in your life ;)Quote:
or tell it to go where I want without making some setting change.
I think you are very wrong about this.Quote:
It appears to be nothing more then a fad that is slowing down.
It sounds like they have got options/extensions that you don't like... try a vanilla installation, and have a quick play in the options.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
"Didn't get the developer toolbar, then?"
Must not have? I could have swore that I checked it.
You mean, you WANT your browser to be slow?;)
It didn't seem faster. It almost seemed like they "masked" it to look faster by having everything happen prerender and not update the screen until it was done.
That's not technical fact, just observations I made while I was messing around with it.
No, you checked "developer tools", which gives you the DOM inspector and JS console. I'm referring to the Developer Toolbar, which is an extension. You need to get it from the Firefox extension site.Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenhalo
I a m doing a reinstall on one of their systems today so I may DL'd it and see on a clean install.
And while you're at it, make different accounts for you and your kids, so that their settings and extensions don't affect your install.
I mean, in which platform I (or many of us) are most comfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by CornedBee
Most of CS graduates learned ASM in college, but will you want to develop in it ?
I guess I've got my answer. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by CornedBee
I'm not against non-MS technology. Right now I'm learning JSP (as well as .NET). I was just curious. :)
[Off Topic]
Speed Issue:
Opera is faster than both IE and Fx. It is because, Opera starts rendering even when part of the page is being downloaded. If you have a network monitor, you may have noticed that.
[/Off Topic]
RobDog - Download Manager = Ctrl+J ;)
Try it, you'll like it, it's not great but it's much better than IE's multiple download dialogs ;)
I think you can set Fx to render HTML as it downloads too, it is a setting somewhere in about:config. it looks a bit odd though.
IE and Gecko do progressive rendering too (unless it's styled XML in Gecko) - Opera is quite simply faster. I'd love to see some of their code.Quote:
Originally Posted by iPrank
Thanks. :thumb: I didn't know that.
Edit: Another question, What is the shortcut key for browsing HomePage in Fx ?
Firefox Keyboard Shortcuts
Homepage is Alt+Home :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornedBee
They have some interesting job openings now if you care to move to Norway or maybe Sweden...;)
Although that's not very far away, I don't think I will.
One thing I want to bring up about Firefox: none other browser has as large community support as Firefox does. This is thanks to open source: everyone who wants can come in. Even those who can't do programming. Both Opera and IE are very distant: they can't allow anyone to contribute and support this or give recognition. Firefox allows this by its basic nature. There is this mood: "anyone can help, anyone can be a part of the community, everyone can work for the same goal".
My gf interrupted writing of this message.
I just read up on Opera 9. It will add BitTorent as well as 9 new widgets. And it said in the article that they will encourage people to write their own widgets. Anyone heard anything about this? Do you think it in the end will be like Fx extensions? Sounds interesting to me. If they do, and they fix 2-3 small annoyances...I will maybe be interesting to do a switch.
- ØØ -
So - let me see if I understand here...Quote:
Originally Posted by NoteMe
You would possibly be willing to drop FF for Opera 9 because of 9 widgets.
Is that right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
That was not I said...but if they can encourage people to make more widgets..then there must be some kind of interface to make them. LIke the XUl, JS interface Fx has. Then Fx is not the only browser where users can make extensions. Hence the browser might get pretty usefull after a while. I wouldn't mind porting the vBulletin extension to Opera. After all, I should support technology from my own country..:D:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornedBee
You know you want to..:)
This was the first post in the thread to Hack's original question - Noteme's enthusiatic applause...Quote:
Originally Posted by NoteMe
Apparently the addition of 9 widgets (whatever the heck they are) to Opera 9 will alter Noteme's opinion greatly - pull him to the other side.
I believe that's what RobDog meant...
So the size of the community and the wiz-bang factor mean absolutely nothing. To a large IT department it's the "stay" factor that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Correct, lets see what happens when IE 7 comes out in ~6 months. IE has the greatest staying power of all time! :thumb: :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
I guess you forgot to read the first post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack
Fx compared to IE...;) Never was Opera put on test..;) I like opera. But as I said, no extension, and a few minor anoyanses (SP?) have made me a Fx user in stead of Opera. Like one of the anoyanses is that I in IE and Fx can after I have written this post just pres TAB and then Enter...and I will post the post without touching the mouse. That is not so easy in Opera for some odd reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
They are just ripping off ideas from Fx and Opera...no new hot stuff is comming, and the web standards are way behind. But by comming out with a new version they will for sure manage to hold the big user group they have, but don't think they will get many users back.
- ØØ -
On the technical front, IE 7, so far, is a regression from IE 6. Even if I was an IE user I wouldn't be impressed in the least. On the other hand, Firefox has improved hugely since the 1.0 release, which was the first I ever used. That for me is their biggest forté - the speed at which bug fixes and new features are rolled out.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
What I like about the Download Manager is that you can open the file that you downloaded as soon as it downloads. The default is to download to the desktop, but that can be changed.
Um ... it's a beta. From all I've heard, it's a great improvement in various areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
NoteMe: it's "annoyances".
Get the IE Beta 2 Preview download just realeased a few days ago.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/ie7/default.mspx
Tabbed browsing, RSS feeds, improved security, toolbar search etc. :thumb: