Death Penalty

Someone, please, close this thread :sick:

One last thing. Many anti-death penalty activists say that because DNA evidence has cleared many people on death row, it shows how the system is flawed, and capital punishment is wrong.

Well that argument is just as good in supporting the Death Penalty.

Now with DNA testing, we can be much more certain of guilt and innocence.

Again, I agree the death penalty should be rarely given out without good forensic or video evidence. But if it is given it, it must be carried out within a reasonable time.

In a recent example, Stanley Williams has been on death row for 24 years.
What a mockery of capital punishment. This is precisely the reason many people argue that Capital Punishment is ineffective in preventing crime, it is because it is so rarely and haphazardly enforced.

1000 executions so far in the U.S., I'm sure there are more first degree murders in a single year on average.

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

So you argue that whatever is enshrined in law is synonymous with morality? I don't subsscribe to that rather philosophically limiting point of view. Not one iota.

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Are we talking of morality? I guess not. We are talking of death sentence similar to any other sentences handed out by courts of law for crimes proven beyond doubt. I don't see how it conflicts with anyone's morality, unless such heinous crimes as warrant the death penalty are morally justifiable for someone.

The simple argument to refute the morality point is if at all there is a point in time where you cannot decide if a person was morally right/wrong in taking the law in his/her own hands, you can always have a lesser sentence awarded and not death. Plus I would expect if you thought your laws were inconsistent with your morality, you would try and change one of them so both were consistent. You wouldn't fit a 14" wheel on the right and a 15" wheel on the left of your car, would you?

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

Same here. Laws are written by humans and all humans make mistakes. Besides, each society will have its own opinions on what is right and what is wrong. In some societies it is fine for a man to beat his woman to death because she slept with another man. In the developed world that man would get life for murder. You are trying to simplify things honeybee and the question of "What is right and what is wrong?" is never going to be simple.

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Why should it be so difficult for you to decide what's right and what's wrong? When the law states that, "Jumping a traffic light is an offense under all circumstances except for emergency vehicles", and if you jump it in your own private car, you are "wrong". Or are there any morality issues associated with jumping the signal?

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ah yes...

is Adultry right or wrong then?

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Originally Posted by honeybee

Are we talking of morality? .

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Didn't you know that when you talk of things that are 'right' or 'wrong' there is an encompassing word that expresses such sentiments.

It's called 'morality'

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by honeybee

We are talking of death sentence similar to any other sentences handed out by courts of law for crimes proven beyond doubt.

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And you believe that this is possible? I am telling you, now, that it is not possible to prove guilt or innocence beyond all doubt

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Originally Posted by honeybee

I don't see how it conflicts with anyone's morality, unless such heinous crimes as warrant the death penalty are morally justifiable for someone.

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You have yet to define what morality is. It is enough for you to know that morality is subjective and individual; an individual can morally justify, but a state cannot.

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Originally Posted by honeybee

The simple argument to refute the morality point is if at all there is a point in time where you cannot decide if a person was morally right/wrong in taking the law in his/her own hands, you can always have a lesser sentence awarded and not death.

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A court is never concerned with the morality of a persons actions only with whether a persons actions were consistent with illegal conduct.

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Originally Posted by honeybee

Plus I would expect if you thought your laws were inconsistent with your morality, you would try and change one of them so both were consistent.

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Laws are often inconsistent with morality. One that immediately comes to mind is homosexuality and Christianity (amongst other religions) Although more progressive, modern aspects of these religions accept homosexuality; a more fundamental stance is that it is a sin. Yet it is not illegal.

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Originally Posted by honeybee

Why should it be so difficult for you to decide what's right and what's wrong? When the law states that, "Jumping a traffic light is an offense under all circumstances except for emergency vehicles", and if you jump it in your own private car, you are "wrong". Or are there any morality issues associated with jumping the signal?

.

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So if your father/mother/son/daughter had been stabbed and you had them in your car taking them to hospital you would wait at a red light? bull****! I would jump every red light and do everything humanly possible to get to that hospital as quickly as possible.

Honeybee, you are constantly trying to simplify things that are not simple. The question of morality is very complicated and will never have a definitive answer.

As for capsule and his crack-pot theory of the 9/11 attacks being a conspiracy why would they attack the second tower and risk exposure when they had already hit the first? That's frankly stupid as millions of city-goers would be more likely to see or film the second tower being hit. Oh, and what looks like a missile? It's the engine!! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

Some time ago we agreed to start at the beginning. I questioned you on the big-bang. You have failed to respond - are we still waiting for an email from someone else that you need to justify your beliefs?

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My beliefs are sound, I dont need it proved to me again. You on the other hand dont seem to understand me, so I need the Original Letter which answered your Questions. I'm no Scientist to Talk Indepth Fact, So I have to wait for The Mail to Make Jargon Sense to a Scientist Like You.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

As for capsule and his crack-pot theory of the 9/11 attacks being a conspiracy why would they attack the second tower and risk exposure when they had already hit the first? That's frankly stupid as millions of city-goers would be more likely to see or film the second tower being hit. Oh, and what looks like a missile? It's the engine!! :rolleyes:

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Coverup Seems to have Worked Fine in these Places, every one has seen the planes attack, no one has analysed it. How Many People Here Just Said I Wrote a Whole Lotta Crap Concerning the Event? See, no ones Knows.

By Now, 2005, You'd Think the President Would Address the Conspiracies or CNN Being the World-Wide Leader At Least Have Some Documentary By Now on It, Even if They Say Prove its Fake, but Nothing.
The People In Iraq And Muslim Countries Who See This Contradicting Evidence And The 9-11 In Plane Site Video, What Do You Think They Think About All Of This?

Muslims and Arab Countires Think Something Along the Lines Of:
If America Got Attacked by Bin Laden, Then They Attack Afghanistan, the Strong Hold Of Bin Laden, but The Video Evidence if Examined By Anyone From the Footage Obtained From CNN, BBC, and local News Shows that Theres More to this What is Reported By the Media to the American Public.
It Also Proves it Could not have been Bin Laden (how did he attach Missiles and get military planes? Thus it Could Not Have Been Bin Laden.
After Afghanistan, America Goes for Take 2, Hitting Iraq for Potential Threat which Will Be Proved by them When the Find the WMD, But its 3 Years Later and The World Is Still Waiting, Then America Goes for Take 3 Threatening Syria and Palestine the Same way they did With Iraq, Now tell Me What do those Arab Countries Think of America. Since America is Lead By Bush (Christian) and all the Potential Countries Attacked are Islamic its all Like A Holy War. But The Fuel for all Of this is Coming From America Who Attack Countries in the First Place, where we Said We Attaked Afghanistan Cause it Housed Bin Laden Who was Responsible for 9-11, yet all Video Evidence You Analyse Suggests Otherwise, then Attack Iraq Where WMD's Are as its a Theat to the American Public, However No WMD Was found, Now We Threatening Iran, Syria, again unjustified.

A Friend Gave me the Translation of the Arabic of Bin Laden, the conversation he had, remember that interview with ABC back in 1997. Well all those subtitles are the total opposite of what he really said. But all the American Public Belived the fake Sub-titles, Didnt You believe it at the Time, Didn't I believe it too?

By the Way, Today I Showed The Sep-11th Video to 2 People at Work Today, and using the Advice Given By yrwyddfa, Valleysboy1978, and Wally Pip was that I am too Suggestive and Jumping and Forcing my Beliefs on you Forum Members, I Told Them to Watch the Video without Telling Them its Content, Neither did I Talk anything While They Watched It. I Sat With Them in the Same Room While I Watched S.Park. When They Were Done I Asked Them, What They Think. The 19 Year Dude Said he Now Believes that The Plane Does Have Controversy then he Ever Imagined. He Blames Bush Saying he is Responsible. The other Dude Said He Thinks The Plane (2nd And 1st Plane) Had Something Attached to it.
He Doesnt Think Bush is Responsible Though, Like me He Thinks Someone is Throwing in a Wildcard To Fuel a War Between America and the Islamic Countries.

I Tried to Attach the Flash Vid Honeybee Mentioned. Its 2.8 MB and wont Attach Here, I Am Trying to Split it into two, then Attach it. I Want Those People Who Say its Fake To Tell Me Why They Think it is So.

The name of the Video is September 11th - In Plane Site, You Can Find it Easy Of Kazaa and Ares and Filetopia. Watch it So All You uninformed can Debate With Us on its Authenticity.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

So if your father/mother/son/daughter had been stabbed and you had them in your car taking them to hospital you would wait at a red light? bull****! I would jump every red light and do everything humanly possible to get to that hospital as quickly as possible.
:

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Wow, You Knew his talking about Ordinary circumstances yet you post this one in a million Chance thing here. Even the Cops would speed with you on this one.

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Originally Posted by Codehammer

Wow, You Knew his talking about Ordinary circumstances yet you post this one in a million Chance thing here. Even the Cops would speed with you on this one.

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You have still failed to even argue with the first paragraph of your first post. I don't think you have the right to pick the bones - however wrong you might be - out of other people's posts.

Where's this magical email anyway?

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Originally Posted by Codehammer

Wow, You Knew his talking about Ordinary circumstances yet you post this one in a million Chance thing here. Even the Cops would speed with you on this one.

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It is a hypothetical situation, one that many people have probably experienced. As for me I wouldn't care how many cop cars are chasing me I would get to that hospital, then face the consequences of dangerous driving.

Tell me. Have you ever heard of doctored videos? there is no evidence to prove that the video you are watching has not been tampered with to show what you fervently want to believe...that there was a conspiracy. And frankly (as mentioned by another VBFer) you are destroying the memory of all those innocent people who died in the tragedy.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

It is a hypothetical situation, one that many people have probably experienced. As for me I wouldn't care how many cop cars are chasing me I would get to that hospital, then face the consequences of dangerous driving.

Tell me. Have you ever heard of doctored videos? there is no evidence to prove that the video you are watching has not been tampered with to show what you fervently want to believe...that there was a conspiracy. And frankly (as mentioned by another VBFer) you are destroying the memory of all those innocent people who died in the tragedy.

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Valleys . . .

He knows there is no corroborated evidence, logical or otherwise. He knows it's speculation. He knows what he says makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Codehammer

I Want Those People Who Say its Fake To Tell Me Why They Think it is So.

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You've got it the wrong way around, mate. Why don't you tell us why this so called evidence is so forking compelling?

deleted - by myself

/Resolved

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

deleted - by myself

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sorry

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

Valleys . . .

He knows there is no corroborated evidence, logical or otherwise. He knows it's speculation. He knows what he says makes no sense.

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I know, it's just so infuriating that he will not say why he believes this to be fact without being objective about it :ARRRRGH:

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

So if your father/mother/son/daughter had been stabbed and you had them in your car taking them to hospital you would wait at a red light? bull****! I would jump every red light and do everything humanly possible to get to that hospital as quickly as possible.

Honeybee, you are constantly trying to simplify things that are not simple. The question of morality is very complicated and will never have a definitive answer.

As for capsule and his crack-pot theory of the 9/11 attacks being a conspiracy why would they attack the second tower and risk exposure when they had already hit the first? That's frankly stupid as millions of city-goers would be more likely to see or film the second tower being hit. Oh, and what looks like a missile? It's the engine!! :rolleyes:

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Dude, I think you are confused about what I said.

I think 9/11 consipiracy theorists ARE crackpots.
I lump them in with the Nazi's who blamed the Jews for their troubles, among other things. These guys can warp any tragedy to promote their political agenda.

I think he meant Codehammer. Not you.

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

Why don't you tell us why this so called evidence is so forking compelling?

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I Usually Make Compilations, VHS Tape the National Geographic Programs and Discovery Channel, Formula 1 and other Racing too. When 9-11 Happened I Rec It. Then all the Bull From CNN, BBC, Newspapers happened which I Beleived Until Last Year. Its Wasnt Until the Iraq prisoner Abuse and the Guan.T. Bay (Cuba) Events happened That me and a Islamic Muslim Friend who is Egyptian Stated Arguing. He then Started Showing Me These Vids, then I Thought The Same as You Guys that It Must Be Fake. Then I Went Back to My VHS Recordings Which I Never Watched Before. I was Stunned (Like when you Find out Your Wife's Having an Affair Stunned)
Then I Went Out and Bought the CNN Documentary Which they Made, Which after you Slowmo it, Makes Horrific Sense of What World we Live In.

Now I Got an Idea Of Whats Actually Going on in the World. Did you Guys Read what I Wrote on Osama's Video Subtitle Translation, How They Manipulated that?
There was Also the Iraq War When they Pulled Down the Sadam Statue. Remember That Day! All Those Iraqi People Chanting and Celebrating Freedom that Day, Remember How Good we Felt? Then I Got Footage From The Iraqi National News, Where Our Army Brought in People, I Think Kurds or Turkish Nationals, Who Dont Live in Iraq, and Who Speak Not a Word or Iraqi, and they "Celebrated Freedom" while We Thought it was the Iraqi's.

America is Playing Us, I Don't Know if Its the Gov or The Media or ?, but Theres Definately More to Consider Then they Present.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

Tell me. Have you ever heard of doctored videos? there is no evidence to prove that the video you are watching has not been tampered with to show what you fervently want to believe...that there was a conspiracy.

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I Edit Vids so I Know, Its Way Hard to Manipulate, How Fake Was Spiderman and Terminator for Example, It Can be Done, But You'd Need a Team and 2 Years to Mess with a Complete Pic.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

You are destroying the memory of all those innocent people who died in the tragedy.

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& what Happens When We Go After The Innocent and Punish Them For what They "Did". Hows The Memory of the Innocent Justified by You Then? I Only Want the True Perpetrators to be Brought to Justice.

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

You have still failed to even argue with the first paragraph of your first post. I don't think you have the right to pick the bones - however wrong you might be - out of other people's posts.

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I hunted the pages and havent found what you refering to, Link please

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Originally Posted by penagate

So no black boxes were found - who cares? Half the time they are destroyed, they are not indestructible like people want to believe they are.

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Worst thing I've read from someone I figured Had Some Open Mindedness.
They went to Afghanistan to avenge 9-11 cause they found passports of Mohamed Attar & who ever else they made up in the wreckage, yet they cant find they freekin Black box. What planet in your head has this sorta physics where paper outlasts a black box?
This itself should wake you & your homeys Up!

Sheesh

So make us a 50mb AVI with mind-blowing information and upload it.

Scatter random objects on your floor, then dump a glass of water over them. Not all will get wet.

Get my drift?

And why the hell would the US attack itself? Really.

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Originally Posted by Codehammer

I hunted the pages and havent found what you refering to, Link please

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You have still failed to explain to me how matter exists inside a singularity. As soon as you can do that then we can move on to your more esoteric points. And PlEAse StoP uSing CAPital LetTERS inCOrrecTLY.

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

I think 9/11 consipiracy theorists ARE crackpots.

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Surely you can only say this after you have gone through what they have presented and then disagreed. 100 MB, easlily accessible over the Net, then you can tell me with references whats bull and what not.


I need to make this my Sig:
http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_articles.htm

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Originally Posted by penagate

And why the hell would the US attack itself? Really.

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George Bush isnt Really Running the Country. Those Who Make up the "Threat to America" Powerpoint Presentations and present them to get approved are. Walker is simply doing what he feels is right. I dont need to talk to you about what a puppet this Dude is, even you can figure.

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Originally Posted by penagate

And why the hell would the US attack itself? Really.

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Money speaks all Languages, what possibility's not out of reach.

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Originally Posted by penagate

And why the hell would the US attack itself? Really.

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Our Oil Probelms are like, sorted.

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Originally Posted by penagate

And why the hell would the US attack itself? Really.

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Corrupt people in Gov., who are similar to the corrupt money stealing politicains we have, but with different motives and different influence and power.

Isnt the Country Now Squashing the Bush Admin. for the Justification for the Iraqi War. Or dont you Follow the News?

LOL


,

You and that link you posted made my day :)

I Still Need to Upload the Other 2 Files, which Compiles 1 Zip Fie. Hold Up!

Look at CodeHammers last 3 posts and see the capitals gradually make their way back in. :) ;)

To Get the Flash Video, Rename the Compile.txt to Compile.bat.
Then Open it in in the same directory as the other Zip Parts 1-6.

The Compiled Video is Insight - Pentagon.zip.

Drag the SWf into Internet Explorer.

The Clip will get critisism, cause you'll say its easy to manipulate Pics, these pics in the SWF must be fake too. My Answer to this is go out there and get the CNN Compile they Sell in Stores, then talk.

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

You have still failed to explain to me how matter exists inside a singularity. As soon as you can do that then we can move on to your more esoteric points. And PlEAse StoP uSing CAPital LetTERS inCOrrecTLY.

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Yeah, thats Right, Lets continue that Unrelated stuff in this Death Penalty Thread.

Go back there, I did Post a Reply to that.

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Originally Posted by grilkip

Look at CodeHammers last 3 posts and see the capitals gradually make their way back in. :) ;)

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:)

I ALSO HAVE WORK TO DO, HHHHMM, IF I NEED TO GET THAT WORK DONE FIRST WHILE TYPE REPLIES TO POSTS SUPER-FAST THEN THIS METHOD MIGHT BE A GOOD ALTERNATIVE!

:)

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Originally Posted by Codehammer

:)

I ALSO HAVE WORK TO DO, HHHHMM, IF I NEED TO GET THAT WORK DONE FIRST WHILE TYPE REPLIES TO POSTS SUPER-FAST THEN THIS METHOD MIGHT BE A GOOD ALTERNATIVE!

:)

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yEAH eXCEPT yOU cOULD uSE lOWCAPS iNSTEAD. :wave:

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Originally Posted by grilkip

....CodeHammers...

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Hey?

Honeybee, is this the same flash Vid?

Please tell me you arent using the Pentagon missle stuff? Its pretty funny that many of the 9/11 conspiracy proponents say the whole Pentagon missle information was put out by the government to make then look silly as the claims made are absolutely bonkers.

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Originally Posted by yrwyddfa

Didn't you know that when you talk of things that are 'right' or 'wrong' there is an encompassing word that expresses such sentiments.

It's called 'morality'

:rolleyes:

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Really? I wonder if morality is the only thing that tells you right or wrong. How about legality? Doesn't your law tell you what's right and what's wrong?

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