Perhaps . . .
I prefer a soapbox, myself ;)
Printable View
Perhaps . . .
I prefer a soapbox, myself ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Pipp
All I know is that I don't want my work performance to be compared to the work performace of those Swizz guys standing out in the rain right now, working on the runnel around CERN here....;)
Only as unnecessary as yours. There may be nothing to compare but there are two sides to a coin. (Unless we live in the year 2185, we won't have any more of those.)Quote:
Originally Posted by NoteMe
Quote:
Originally Posted by mendhak
I commented his critisizim. And that isn't useless. It was well worth the 2min to write that post. And there is still nothing to compare, not even in 2185...:D..at least I hope..:)
I dont think those numbers take into account what the people gave. It also doesnt take into account the US military and the millions spent there to help with the relief. It only reflects what was pledged by the government. If you added everything up I am sure it would paint a different picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
X
I would check the latest exchange rates. The USD is well off its lows and is slowly climbing back. The reason why it dropped in the first place was that the Bush administration decided to no longer artificially prop up the USD and to let the market influences take their natural course. Today people are selling off Euro's and buying USD due to the relative weakness of Europes economies. Also you mistake the strength of the US economy, I wouldn’t call 4% growth "poor economic performance".Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
X
Perhaps. I'd be interested to see those figures, too.
I was referring to the recent over-valuing of the USD against the US' huge trade deficit, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
I'll try to be more specific next time.
Also, economic performance is not measured only in terms of GDP growth, is it?
Incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
If you look at the table the first few columns reflect how much was donated by the respective governments (United Kingdom 0.083, United States 0.08)
The last few show the Public contributions, which are the figures yrywddfa provided
The interesting thing from that list is that the UK gave:
USD 140.3M and has 60.000.000 inhabbitants
Norway gave:
USD 175.3M and has 4.000.000 inhabbitants..:)
Who is rich now...:)...or WAS rich before this happend...:D...
Yes, NoteMe, your govt indeed did post a rather generous figure. Shame about the public donations, though. Tightwads. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
:confused: It is still pretty much more if you look at how few we are. I can't see any countries that have given more for each citizen in a country. If we where the same size as USA we would have had the posiblity to give (theoreticaly) more then USD 6000, that is 6 times more then the US it self....
- ØØ -
Are we talking just cash donations here?
How about infrastructure support - ships and planes and other things?
Does all this cash include the many, many charities in the US - AmeriCares for example?
I don't know - I am just curious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
I guess not, but that yields for all nations. Like all the airlplanes Norway provided, and the USD 1.64bn from our oil found... :rolleyes:
Perhaps you missed this portion "The following table is a partial listing of cash commitments from various governments and nongovernmental organisations..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Not to mention the sources are the UN, the BBC, and Aljezeera??? Hardly what I would call reliable sources. I think CNN is in there somewhere as a source as well, I wouldnt exactly call them reliable either :)
And Szlamany is right it doesnt include US military aid which was quite substantial.
X
I can accept that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Especially when you dig out the figure from more 'reliable' sources and post them to corroberate your argument. Don't forget to tell us why your sources are more reliable than the ones used in the figures.
Until that moment I personally think that those figures will have to do.
Yes, there are ommissions, but curiously as Xanith pointed out, they are clearly marked as is the problem with using pm/gnp.
I'm pretty sure you can all read. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't as though anyone was trying to hoodwink you.
I posted the figures and the source for your delectation. If you choose to not believe them (for whatever reason) you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I believe that those figures are in the ball-park and that it certainly shows the level of commitment to aid from the countries listed individuals, but perhaps not all of the govt commitment (military, and personnel aid is not shown - and ITS CLEARLY MARKED AS NOT SHOWN TOO!!)
Furthermore to redress this outrageous unreliable figure problem may I suggest that you apply to Wikipedia. Once you've found more 'reliable' sources you can add your own entry in there, and correct the rest of the world. Perhaps you'd like to post the military commitments, there, too, so the rest of us can judge for ourselves.
After all 'quite substantial' is rather a little qualitative, rather than quantitative don't you think?
:rolleyes:
[ Removed . . . ]
Unfortunately this is part of the problem. The vehicles are purchased in the respective countries of ORIGIN, not where the aid is going. Therefore the likes of GM, Ford etc profit from it and thus the government get some money back through the tax on the vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Perhaps if the aid money was used to purchase the vehicles in the country the aid is going it would help their industry too? :ehh:
I am talking about the billions we spend on developing planes and ships for our navy that we then send overseas to assist in delivery of food and supplies to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
I certainly wasn't talking about buying a sedan...
Neither was I, but wouldn't it help their struggling industries if we let them use the aid money to buy vehicles from THEIR economy instead of from the likes of Ford who make enough as it is.
How can you believe anything that states its only a partial listing and clearly states its leaving out a large portion of aid? Not only that it quotes such sources as Aljazeera. Then you use this obviously incomplete information from dubious sources in a post to try and demonstrate the lack of giving by the US. Why put forth such sources if not to deceive? I suggest doing your homework a little better before trying to counter someone’s assertion on any subject in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
X
I don't deny any of it apart from the part about trying to decieve. Yes, I need to do a little more homework. Which I will gladly do if:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
(i) You provide me with a complete list of potential sources for aid.
(ii) You provide me with a complete list of trustworty sources.
If you can do that, I'll get working on it.
Now gentlemen, please refrain from using your handbags in such heated discussions :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Those were meant to be taken as two seperate statements. Sorry for the mix up. Both are true. My wife manages a Honda dealership. Their hybrids are flying out of the door. Yes fuel prices are what's driving it for now. Just wait until they jack up the sticker price on them. Also I'd say that there is a very small percentage of people who don't want to save the environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by crptcblade
As far as Tsunami relief. ***? They have been given plenty of money to rebuild. What? should the US just hand over all of it's cash? Damn guys, It's been taken care of. I'm not sure if any one in Asia has noticed but our shorelines are smacked with Hurricanes, Tropical storms, massive waves every year (two of them heading in as we speak). Or did someone forget the volcanic eruptions or the earthquakes the west coast constantly getts hit with(Just had one outside Seattle a few weeks ago). Or the fact that by the end of summer millions of acres of forest and communities will be on fire in California, Washington, and Oregon. Or the tornados that like to pop up in the midwest for months straight. How about all of the floods / flash floods we get. One good one by itself can cause millions of dollars in damage. I don't see any one donating anything to the "rebuild my Grandpaps flooded barn fund". Or the "Get Uncle Bucks Cow out of the Neighbors tree tornado fund". Natural disasters suck no matter where they happen. I guess they don't have as much shock value as a tsunami since they're spread out over time.
I am still waiting Xanith.Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
There are a few problems with that assessment.
For a start most of the property in the US is insured. Therefore, although it is heartbreaking for the residents I'm sure, they will have sufficient personal funds to rebuild
The US government will often donate billions of dollars to help the stricken city recover from hurricanes, earthquakes and such...the Indonesian government simply does not have the funds for such a disaster.
The US people are generally highly educated and well paid, within the year most will likely be well on track to being back to normal. Seeing as Indonesia is a third world country they cannot recover nearly as quickly
The US people are used to such disasters as hurricanes and often have plenty of warning from weather forecasts. This allows the evacuation of the relevant city and boarding up of property. Indonesia did not have the infrastructure to cope with a tsunami. Where could they run? It is a group of islands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
That was exactly my point. We cover our own arses when it comes to natural disasters. No one else helps us out. I'm not saying we shouldn't have sent money to Indonesia. I'm just saying people shouldn't ***** that we didn't send enough. Plenty of money was sent there to put everything back to where it was. Saying we should send more is like saying I should spend $1,000 on a slice of pizza because the cook is poor.
That is selfish.
Indonesia was different because it was a third world country that was affected. I myself gave £10 (and I usually don't give to charities) simply because I knew that it couldn't have hit a worse area.
American residents, like you say, get hit all the time and thanks to your developed infrastructure you were able to evacuate to another state for a while. Indonesia had no such warning, simply because most cannot afford a radio let alone a tv, so would not have had any warning even if there was some
Besides, a populated US city has never been hit by a tsunami
We have large populated areas get hit by both earth quakes and extreme tropical storms every single year - several a year actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Some cause billions of dollars of damage and displace peoples lives for extended amounts of time.
The tsunami was a freak event - it doesn't happen every year - not even every decade. I feel terrible for all the loss of life and the loss of livelyhood for these people.
But why are we comparing anyway?
And "insured" - what was that point about. Insurance is the pooling of dollars together so that when a tragedy arises, the funds are available for rebuilding. Not everyone pays for insurance - they simply cannot afford it - they lose in these situations...
And dollars from the government - there is no such things - again that's dollars we pay in taxes, that are pooled together in a budget, to assist in the re-building.
There is no free lunch here - no one is getting anything in the US for free.
We also have an extreme amount of tornadoes - come without warning - and seem to always hit trailer parks were low-income, less educated people live. So what was your point about well educated and well paid all about? Well paid is a strange thing to say - it's a capitalist society here - you get a slice of the pie based on your ability to grab it. Less educated/less fortunate people are everywhere in the world - the ones in the US are just as poor as the ones in the third world.
Another day, and yet no response. I wonder why?Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
Not exactly true. Crescent City, California, 1964 11 dead. Not quite the scale of the Indonesian tsunami.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Save the world?? Excuse me!!Quote:
Originally Posted by demotivater
Just in the case of global warming, France has been planning to ban (or probably has already) 4x4s because they cause more pollution. The US is probably the biggest consumer of 4x4 SUVs.
India has the first commercially produced all-electricity vehicle, while in the US, GM and Ford had to withdraw their electric vehicles from the market because they were not financially viable. What a developing country like India can achieve, the US cannot? Gimme a break here. And the Indian government is not even giving the electric vehicle Reva many subsidies that it should be giving.
While going through the reviews of the electrical vehicle, I came across an interview excerpt of Richard Branson who hinted that in the US such a research cannot be successful because the oil companies will effectively kill it for their own profits.
Well, it's an improvement really that over the last few years, Mr. Bush has at least learned that automobiles and other human sources do pollute. Enlightenment at last!
Bush's statements about the climate change at the recent G8 simply show he doesn't want to do anything about it and wants to protect his own oil companies more than the global climate.
.
How is it selfish. We (as in the western world) gave them enough money to rebuild. That is not selfish that is the opposite of selfiish. What, should we give them more? That doesn't make any sense. They have plenty of money now to rebuild. If anything it will give the the people who lived through it more in pocket money. Natural disasters make for a lot of new low level education jobs like cleaning crews and construction/labor for example. So basically they are being paid by us to rebuild their country. Not all the money goes to medical supplies and food. We are paying their workers their wages to do the actual footwork. That is a major infusion of cash into their local economy. Indonesia will be fine. Also Keep in mind I never said we shouldnt have sent them money. I personally sent $100 myself. I'm saying people shouldn complain and say we are selfish and should send more based on our GNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
You're right, we get hit by more natural disasters in a year that cause more damage and run up more cost than 15 tsunamis. Look at a weather map. Zoom in on florida right this second. Do it! They have a truckload of suck heading towards them right now. Just like Last week!Quote:
Besides, a populated US city has never been hit by a tsunami
here go, here's one, there went 40 mil in about 30 seconds.
tornado
Wow here's 2 in 2 weeks
Hurricane
gee wizz almost 3 million acres burt to a crisp this year already on the west coast. Summer just started
wildfires
only 573 earthquake in the last week. Not to shabby huh? wonder how many people have cracked foundations in their houses now. I know I do and my house is only 3 months old.
earthquakes
And this is what we have to look forward to today
thank god it's friday
That storm is a major force - category 4...Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
That's wave heights of 15 to 20 feet - not one wave - consistent blasting...
Quote:
Category: Four
Definition: Winds 131-155 mph
Effects: More extensive curtain wall failures with some complete roof structure failure on small residences. Major erosion of beach. Major damage to lower floors of structures near the shore. Terrain continuously lower than 10 feet ASL may be flooded requiring massive evacuation of residential areas inland as far as 6 miles.
Hey, Valleysboy1978. Ever been hit with a palm tree flying at you at 155 MPH? Betch someone in florida will know the feeling before the day is done.