Should I move to .Net?

I never indicated that I was quoting when I said "collosal failure". That was me editorializing the first two paragraphs of the article. What did you get from those paragraphs?

The print article I have on my desk right now says (in regard to VS 2005):

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Not suprisingly, Visual C# and Visual J# pick up new features. But Visual Basic 2005 and Visual C++ 2005 are reborn.

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I take that to mean that the dev team at MS decided to fix VB .Net.

As for "We fully expect to leave VB 6 - the time is not now":

We would love to be a VB *.Net/2005* shop - but like you, we have an unending list of work that never seems to let up.

We've already had our platform of choice (2 decades of enterprise applications with Digital VAX w/VAX-11 BASIC/Assember/RMS) ripped out from under us. They said it would end in 10 years - but VMS still keeps going - I still pick up new support contracts.

I cannot imagine what will happen to VB 6 - I've only been on-board for 3 years. We keep most of our application/business logic in SPROCS in SQL - that's got a 50+ year past history - that seems like it might be around for a few more years :D...

VB .Net doesn't run VB 6 without extensive translation - what were they thinking?

This link at MS itself says it all:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/pr...o/roadmap.aspx

From that link:

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Visual Basic 2005 will reduce the coding associated with many common programming tasks by over 50 percent. New objects and methods will provide efficient access to the most frequently used functionality within the .NET Framework, including project-related resources, such as forms, data sources, and Web services, as well as machine-level components, such as printers, the file system, and the registry. The code in figure 3 shows one example of how these Visual Basic language extensions will dramatically simplify the code required for common operations.

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If they changed stuff that gave a 50% reduction in code lines for common programming tasks then VB .Net is still immature.

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Originally posted by Memnoch1207


YOU ALL NEED TO GET JOBS IN THE RETAIL INDUSTRY

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The chit chat gang would be moving to the new

www.retailforum.com

:(

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Originally posted by szlamany
This link at MS itself says it all:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/pr...o/roadmap.aspx

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With the reintroduction of Edit and Continue, developers will be able to modify and test source code without stopping and restarting the debugging session.

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Yeay!
they were IDIOTS when they left that out!!!

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Originally posted by techgnome

How has MS "sold out" VB developers? By giving us what we've been asking for years? OOP? Stronger Typing? Inheritance? Overloading?

TG

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All those things are fantastic and yes, people needing those things have opted for other languages instead, but where is the simple syntax that VB6 had?

I couldn't believe the fuss I had to go to if I need to open a text file (streamreader/streamwrite), read some characters and then close the stream. I've never had to "flush a stream" before.

And why get rid of

msgbox("VB Forums Rulez")

With a

Messagebox.Show

?

It's a cop out. It's all too much like Java/C for my liking. Sure, something are an improvement but when I went from VB 3 to VB 4,5,6 - I didn't need to learn a whole new language.

I'm convinced VB.Net was developed by C++ programmers, probably in C# no less.

VB6 will die. It's dying already. VB.Net will grow and take over but I'm hoping I'll have a job in retail by then. ;)

Errr, you can do Msgbox "vb6 rules" in vb.net?

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Originally posted by Madboy
ALL wrong, the best language ever is,

DrunkLanguage - the only language i understand, and its real easy to pick up, you should all try it:thumb:

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gasp, pant, withdrawel pains...must...need...he didn't...say it,,, SAY IT!!!, oh noooooo!


DELPHI

Phew!

Much better now.

:D
:wave:
-Lou

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Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Errr, you can do Msgbox "vb6 rules" in vb.net?

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For now, but THY END IS NEAR!!!

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Originally posted by Gary Campbell
For now, but THY END IS NEAR!!!

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:lol:

There will always be people who need support for VB6 programs just look at COBOL :)

The biggest problem was the code change. From a work point of view i dont have time to learn a whole new language. :(

Learning VB.NET isn't that much different then VB6.
The syntax is the same.
The only thing you need to learn is the underlying framework, which is a part of all .NET languages. Once you know the framework, it's no big deal.

And BTW, for those of you who still haven't heeded my advice...I have just heard that KMart is hiring for Retail Sales Associates.

Company benefits include "Blue Light Special" discounts!

Anyone in this thread ever heard of multiskilling?

You will never find a programming language to fit all requirements. In my opinion, it is best to do one of the following.

[list=a][*]Pick the language most likely to get you the job you want[*]Learn several, allowing you far greater flexibility[/list=a]

I am reasonably proficient in about 4 languages (VB6, Java, Occam, Haskell), plus another couple of web languages (HTML, ASP/VBScript). I'm nowhere near as good as someone who, say, programs .Net for a living, but I could cope with writing most programs thrown my way. By learning multiple languages, I allow myself to pick the best tool for the job.

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Originally posted by Gary Campbell
For now, but THY END IS NEAR!!!

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Shouldnt that be, The END IS NY?:ehh:

I don't like New York much, but just the same

THY END IS NIGH!

Have you ever been to THE city or are you just blowing smoke?

I know all about New York.

I flew over it in Microsoft Flight Simulator back in 1999.

:)

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Originally posted by rotcrules
Should i move to ".Net" from "VB6ee"?

I use VB to buld my experience up. I want to move to a more advance language but dont know which one, is .Net much harder to learn thatn VB6 was? or are they almost the same?

Eventualy i want to learn C or C++ or somthing

Thanks

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I'd hold off to the 2005 VS before switching if I was you then start learning C/C++.

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Originally posted by mendhak
I forgot to ask a question abuot this in my previous post:

What for?

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C++ is more of a langauge for computer scientist where as visual basic is more of a langauge for advanced computer users, networkers, etc. Visual basic is really only suited to creating utilities.

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Originally posted by szlamany
The official word on the next version of Visual Studio (Whibdey?) is that it's going to re-embrace some of the look/feel and features of VB6, since VB .Net was a collosal failure as far of wide spread development switch-over.

Wait for that.

Edit: Learning C or assembler makes computers less mysterious and gives the programmer more power...

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If we could purge all this Delphi garbage outta here we could see the true wisdom being offered...;)

Wasn't Unreal Tornament 2004 written in GW basic ?

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Originally posted by Maven
.... where as visual basic is more of a langauge for advanced computer users, networkers, etc. Visual basic is really only suited to creating utilities.

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Isn't that a contradiction?

TG

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Originally posted by techgnome
I keep hearing this, but I still have yet to see one shred of ANY evidence of this.... what is it about .NET that is "evil"? The name calling is counter productive and unnecessary. And I still don't see how .NET is a failure of anything. If it was this aledged failure that everyone (but me?) seems to think that it is, then why do I see more and more components available for it? Why do I see more and more .NET jobs available? Why is there now a thrird verison of VS out? If it is a failure, why is MS dumping VBScript for full-blown .NET integration in MS Office? If it's a failure, why are there comapnies bulding IDE's for C# on LINUX? Can *any*one show HOW .NET is a failure of any kind?


The first reason is vlid, I'll give you that. It happens to be the nature of the beast. But even if you don't include something in the installer, the user has to get it somewhere. BTW: I haven't seen an installer of any kind where I had to include something. We've got an install that doesn't include alot of the components used by our app. It's our choice.
Your middle two reasons are weak.... same can be done in VB6.... albiet through thrird party controls, but it can be done.
Your third reason is ..... *sigh*..... not going to bother.



Classic example of the "Chicken Little Syndrome" : it doesn't work the way I'm used to so it must be broke, so label it "this sucks" and rant and rave about it.
Imagine if the same mentality had been applied to Windows when it first came out. "There's no C:\ prompt, so this thing sucks. I can't get it to tell me what path I'm in....." The samething happened for a lot of people when moving from VB3 to VB4. It's a paradigm shift: Roll with it or get out of the way.
....

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Your going to hear countless C++ people saying that .net sucks because C and Net doesn't exactly mix well right now. Point is microsoft say's that is going to be took care of with their 2005 visual stuido release. If you have any common sense, you'll wait on that release before shelling out $$.

Do you think that people who only have experience with VB really understand how memory is managed when a program executes?

How strings are stored? How adding a single character to a string can move the whole string in memory?

How function calls frame the stack - local variables, global variables and so on.

The original post wanted to expand their knowledge...

Is this constant ranting still going on, even i stopped quite a few posts back:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Memnoch1207
Learning VB.NET isn't that much different then VB6.
The syntax is the same.
The only thing you need to learn is the underlying framework, which is a part of all .NET languages. Once you know the framework, it's no big deal.

And BTW, for those of you who still haven't heeded my advice...I have just heard that KMart is hiring for Retail Sales Associates.

Company benefits include "Blue Light Special" discounts!

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Just a extra comment on that, the framework is basically a big ass wrapper for the windows API.

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Originally posted by venerable bede
Wasn't Unreal Tornament 2004 written in GW basic ?

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grrr don't get me started on Atari and how they screwed up UT!

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Originally posted by techgnome
Isn't that a contradiction?

TG

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How so?

VB.Net is essentially the flaw of the entire .Net concept, I say, if you want to use an M$ technology, at least move to C#

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Originally posted by Maven
How so?

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jimminy christmas....

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visual basic is more of a langauge for advanced computer users, networkers, etc.

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This indicates that it's for the power user and "advanced work"

while

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Visual basic is really only suited to creating utilities

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Seemed to indicate that VB is only good for "utilitarian" programming....

Which is it?

TG

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Originally posted by Maven
C++ is more of a langauge for computer scientist where as visual basic is more of a langauge for advanced computer users, networkers, etc. Visual basic is really only suited to creating utilities.

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I know about 300 developers in my company that are rolling on the floor laughing right now.

No offense, but you are absolutely incorrect.

Memnoch1207,

Come clean - you're really just a recruiter for WalMart - right?

...and - 300 developers? Might be a few opinions in a group that size - huh? Do they prefer coke or pepsi?

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Originally posted by szlamany
Memnoch1207,

Come clean - you're really just a recruiter for WalMart - right?

...and - 300 developers? Might be a few opinions in a group that size - huh? Do they prefer coke or pepsi?

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Crimminy-sakes.... you are a rookie aren't you?

*Everyone* knows that that's not even a close call.... MtDew all the way.....
sheesh what kind of progrmmer are you?

:bigyello:

TG

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Originally posted by techgnome
MtDew all the way.....

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We always wondered here...

What was going on at the MtDew boardroom the day they choose that odd pee-color??

JOLT COLA!!!

or

Dr. Pepper!

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Originally posted by techgnome
jimminy christmas....


This indicates that it's for the power user and "advanced work"

while

Seemed to indicate that VB is only good for "utilitarian" programming....

Which is it?

TG

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Some of us woudln't call making a trace route program "Advanced work". There is absolutely nothing advanced to visual basic.

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Originally posted by Memnoch1207
I know about 300 developers in my company that are rolling on the floor laughing right now.

No offense, but you are absolutely incorrect.

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It's very easy to say your incorrect... but please tell me a reason why? Tell me what else is visual basic good for besides simple stuff? The langauge itself is lacking too much to do anything remotely advanced. In other words, anything non-trival will require you to create a library in another langage then call it from VB. It's too slow for anything that requires an eye on resources like games, servers, and content creation. You will never ever leave the lands of microsoft while programming visual basic, because your stuck there. This leaves you with visual basic really isn't good for anything except learning and creating util's.

Every piece of internal software my company runs is written in VB. From Console applications that check a database to send emails, to enterprise applications that help our customers submit suggestions for changes to future versions of our products.

We have content management applications created in VB.
We have a survey system application written in VB that allows the user to generate a generate surveys and automatically send them to customers.

C++ is better for doing lower level stuff, such as creating drivers, etc.. than VB is, but as far as everything else goes...What can VB not do???

VB has been able to handle any application we have needed to create, ranging from simple console application utilities, to full blown enterprise applications.

So, once again, I apologize if I offend you, but your comments are not those of an experienced VB programmer. Otherwise you would know that VB can do just about anything you need done.

Oh and the company I work for isn't some mom and pop joint.
We employ over 5,000 employees and have over 26 locations across the U.S.

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Originally posted by Memnoch1207
C++ is better for doing lower level stuff, such as creating drivers, etc.. than VB is, but as far as everything else goes...What can VB not do???

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Games! Which I think is what all programmers want to make while they're young... until, they're hopes and dreams are squashed. :cry:

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Originally posted by Memnoch1207
Every piece of internal software my company runs is written in VB. From Console applications that check a database to send emails, to enterprise applications that help our customers submit suggestions for changes to future versions of our products.

We have content management applications created in VB.
We have a survey system application written in VB that allows the user to generate a generate surveys and automatically send them to customers.

C++ is better for doing lower level stuff, such as creating drivers, etc.. than VB is, but as far as everything else goes...What can VB not do???

VB has been able to handle any application we have needed to create, ranging from simple console application utilities, to full blown enterprise applications.

So, once again, I apologize if I offend you, but your comments are not those of an experienced VB programmer. Otherwise you would know that VB can do just about anything you need done.

Oh and the company I work for isn't some mom and pop joint.
We employ over 5,000 employees and have over 26 locations across the U.S.

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But what your talking about is very trival in programming. You can do the same exact thing for example with Perl or any other language under the sun. However as your company grows, those applications will start to recieve stress and thats when you'll see even trival programs break.

You think you can do anything with visual basic, why not a HTTP server? Sure you could create one in just a few hours in visual basic. However how useful is it? It could handle a little bit of traffic but what happens when it increases? The answer is sipmle, the server stops responding.

Do you think a site like yahoo could run a visual basic search engine? Their stie would stop responding instantly. How about a audio codec or video codec. Do you honestly think visual basic could accomplish this? Would visual basic be good for a firewall or antivirus? errr no... How about 3d modling like 3dmax or autocad? I could sit here all day long and type **** that visual basic cannot do and even if you could do it, it would be useless in the commerical enviroment. If I have it all wrong then you should have no problems coming up with links to sucessful commercial apps written in visual basic.

C++ scares away most people because unlike visual basic you actually have to aquire disipline in programming before you are able to do anything with it. It really takes years to get confident with C++ because there is so many concepts you have to learn. You could spend 6 months just learning about data structures in C++. I mean your going to be programming c++ a long time before you will ever see a windows program because there is so much to learn with just the langauge itself without all the visual stuff. Then when you do move to windows, you wont start out with point and clicking... In fact when I started learning MFC, I had to create my own damn text box and command button just for my simple hello world. Not that the textbox control or command button control doesn't exist in C++, it's just if you really want to know what the heck is going on you have to do it the hard way till you know. In visual basic, you have no concept of messages, device context, or even serialization because visual basic hides that from you.

I have returned.

For those of you who commented on the 1337ness statement I made. THat was a joke. You don't have to tell me how much of an idiot I am. I already know. That is all, thank you.