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I think we'll use DirectPlay... Anyways I think your idea is great. We can concentrate on gameplay and stuff, instead of other stuff =)
And also there may be more enthusiasm for MODs if we do a two-stage release =).
That's another thing, would MOD support be in a multiplay version?
Sas, about the MSN thing. It's questions outside TOW too, DHTML and stuff. I've figured the most out myself, though.
Of course we have to put MODs into the multiplayer version. So that people can play with their own races and stuff.
But what I'm more concerned about is how they can regulate the races. and will you be able to add units to oune of our civs? If so, will it be very easy?
I may end up releasing the source code to the multiplayer version of the game, to give MOD authors something to start with (a la Half-life). Then, when we begin to work on the single player campaign, I can simply build off the multiplayer source code, and gain in the fact that all bugs reported from people playing will be in the single player release.
I will attempt to totally automate unit balancing. Simply, a unit will start with a number of points. the number of points defines the unit's size. a size one unit may start with 5 points, while level 2 starts with 7, etc. the larger the unit (this isnt physical size, it's a balancing tool), the more it costs to build, the longer it takes to build, etc. In addition, I want to add unit levels and experience, so, when units get to be level 10 or so, they become a Hero, get a name, and all that. If anyone remembers that i said I needed two types of animation, this is what the high quality is for. When a Hero dies, the camera should zoom in in a sort of widescreen, scripted sequence thing, to show the Hero's Death. I think it would look pretty d*** slick.
Anyway, Those are my thoughts =).
Z.
Okay -- got a Q for you, Igor. I want to convert some of my MIDIs to the MOD format -- where would I get some good "samples" (like from high-quality soundcards) and where would I get a converter?
Zaei, this multiplayer system you're proposing:
1. Does it take place on the sphere or a flat world?
2. How big is the map?
3. How many players can play on one map?
4. How long does a typical game last?
I'm considering the possibilities for this system and it's looking quite good. I also like the automatic system of unit worth. I tried such a system earlier, and got reassuring results. It would also help mod makers making new units, pricing-wise. Bravo!
1. Either
2. However big you want it =).
3. See 2. =) Depends on server speed.
4. Depends on 2 and 3 =P.
I am going to try to get a basic Client-Server Thing going, then go from there.
Z.
So Zaei, I've been hearing things... people who say they want to see something from us =)
Why don't we work towards an engine preview in the next little while?
Ill see if I can get you guys a UI interface preview up and running. I will be stealing your Web site graphics for this =).
So, drop everything, get a demo going, gotcha! Also, if someone could get me a little graphic (64x64, perhaps), of a parchment envelope with a red wax seal, I would be much obliged!
Z.
In fact, I think Ill show the loader off, and make it a sort of mod =).
Z.
Sas, your question....
I don't really know... I just make the music. I don't know any technical stuff on it
Sorry
I think that MOD files are created using ProTracker (so says Winamp). Where you can get samples, I dont know, but i think it is a wise move.
Z.
To avoid further confusion:
MOD files (music) we will refer to as MOD.
MOD files (modification packs) we will refer to as TowMods or something like it.
I've downloaded ModPlug Tracker and it's okay... all I need now are some quality samples.
Oh, and I'll make that for you Zaei! (64x64 sealed wax envelope)
I have begun a new tune. It's calm and beautiful...I'll let you hear it when Sas makes it possible to update it on the web-page
Here it is!
I cant wait, Igor. Sounds great!
Z.
If it's done Igor, then just post it here as it may be tomorrow or next week when the upload is done!
Sas, do you have ANY idea how PERFECT that is?! You Rock!
I am going to use that image to notify users of messages. They will drop in from the top of the screen, and stack at the edge, and blink until the user clicks on it to view the message. Itll then set a timeout on itself, and kill itself a few seconds later. Make me a bitmap of that, and email it to me, and Ill add it into the demo =).
Z.
Well, I am getting stuff done. The loader is pretty much complete! I have also implemented a nifty Memory Manager that takes care of all memory allocations and deallocations, and logs them. When the program ends, It prints out the total memory allocated through each DLL module, and the number of outstanding allocations (when i dont free memory i am taking up). It's pretty cool =).
The demo that I will get for you guys will be mostly UI, including windows, menus, and simple unit control. I will implement static model loading, a better windowing system, simple unit control (movement), etc. It will use the engine exclusivly, so that no outside classes can access video memory, window memory, etc. Windows will follow the Web page's design, using Sas's title bar. I will do my best to make the windows look 3D.
Z.
My initial tests are a success! I can now load The two main functions from a mod DLL!
Z.
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! Good job, Zaei!
Thanks Jorj! =).
Nobody gave me any feedback on my Hero idea. What do you guys think? (its back about 20 posts, maybe).
Z.
Sounds fine with me, Sas.
No, you cannot free the memory afterwards, Each module should do it already (System keeps all pointers to objects hidden away, and should destroy all of them when the program quits). What this allows me to do is catch myself in any places where I am not freeing up memory, and fix it before anything gets out of my hands. This was a real problem that I wanted fixed when I started this rewrite, because the last version of the engine left something like 4 megs of memory in the system when you quit(4 megs in Direct3D memory, I dont know how much heap memory).
I can do day, evening, night, etc. I will probably just change the amount of ambient light in the scene, to fade from white to orange to blue to black light to simulate the passage of time. The "units" will very likely be simple octahedrons, with a diffuse color on them =). The map will be a large square =).
Z.
Yeah now we're talking =)
OMG.
I have realized in this whole thing we have not talked about WATER or SHIPS. Well there was one occasion... but thats not the point! I'll be posting some ideas here... Okay...
And also I'd like to know if you could create a weight algorithm based on their class & armour. The system should be based on what comes first is the max.
1. Rowboat - Max. weight of 200kg or 2 people.
2. Yacht - Max. weight of 1000kg or 8 people.
3. Liner - 1700kg.
4. Civilian Transport - 2500kg.
5. Military Transport - 3000kg.
6. Barrage - 5 people and up to 1000 arrows.
7. Heavy Barrage - 10 people and unlimited arrows, also allows for fire pits (fire arrows).
These are just ideas, open to interpretation.
The ships sound great Sas! We have sort of neglected them, huh?
I have been working on the UI for the past few hours, and here is what we have so far. The window is alpha blended quite a bit in this first shot, so you cant really see what Ive done, but here it is. In case you cant tell, that's Sas's Web page title bar thing on top =).
Z.
And, here is another shot, with less blending, so you can all see the slick ass new 3d border =).
Z.
Just knew it would be for a good cause :D
I want to make it techdemoey, is there a possibility to implement lightning or rain effects?
For rain (or snow) I can stick in the curret Particle system (the one I showed you all before. Lighting will take a bit of work, but if you want it, i will try. There is still a lot of work to do on the UI (titlebar-less windows, window interactivity, messaging, menus... blah blah blah =).
Z.
Ok, Non-3D and Titlebar-less windows are done =).
Z.
And Transparent texture loading. I've got those two envelope images in, and looking great!
Z.
Remmeber me... Im back and I have looked at your art section......
I wonder how much we have improved, but then again I never understand anything you guys say anyways. As for my part in this well I still cant help on anything, my scanner its as I fear...
still I'll check up on you guys... I wish I could lend you my talent ...
Either way.. Im not out of it yet! Ill come back.. I hope
Norman Nomein
Stick around! We still need that artwork =). Hope you've been doing stuff while you've got no scanner =). Nice to hear from ya!
Z.
Zaei: Post a ZIPPED JPEG with huge compression (enough to make it fit anyways), FULL SIZE, of what it looks like.
You said zipped, so I zipped it, even though it was only 30k to start with =).
Z.
Zaei: :P
That's looking really nice!
Yeah!
Check this out, I made it today.
It's a splash!
Unfortunately, this one's a bit worse...
Thanks Sas, for reminding me to add in splash screen support to mods =).
Sorry I didnt get any work done yesterday. I was out at a party all day. Got a new laser mouse =). Tried to install it last night, and had to reinstall windows. Anyway, I have a lot of stuff to reinstall, and then I will be able to get something done. I am hoping to get you guys a good runnable demo in maybe two weeks.
Z.
PS: Winamp 3 is going to rock =).
No need to be sorry about anything... when you say laser mouse do you mean optical or something else? Anyways... which splash do you like more?
It's Optical...and it vibrates... o.o;;
I liked the first one better =).
I just finished reinstalling MSVC, and SourceSafe-ed all of the source to the engine.
Z.
I like the first one better too... Is it the MouseMan Optical (the one that vibrates)? Or is it an Intellimouse...
Anyway, everything but the game is in 800x600, is that okay?
It's the iFeel Mouse (Almost the MouseMan). Got it for free =).
Splash screens will be displayed while the app is loading, using standard BitBlt =). When everything is finished loading, that window is destroyed, the game's window is opened, and the fun commences =).
Z.
Is there a status bar too?
(1400th Post!)
The first splash looks the better one.
Yeah, Sas. I can do a s tatus bar too =).
Z.
Thanks for the input, Psy!
I recently whipped up a layout:
(8000 Views!)
Can you post the site up I need to know some units...
Here's hard question, I f you could make a percentage how much have we done or you guys done what would be =)
Norman, I would put forth that approximatly 50-75% of the engine is complete. All that really needs to be added is multiplayer support and skeleton meshes. On the other hand, very little of the actual game is done.
Sas, Here is my own concept layout =).
Z.
Yeah, im still keeping tabs on you lot :P
The layout sas did i think is better, you just need the mail (envelope) thing in there somewhere and i think that would be good.
Not ActiveX controls, but I will probably do something with the scripting engine that will allow us to create controls.
Psy, I prefer a smaller interface. Less UI = More player immersion. That's why we will have popup menus, etc.
Z.
I spose that could be better, in Diablo the way that is done i think is quite sweet, but then also look at the menu down the right side of the screen in Red Alert. I think it needs some kind of permanent menu perhaps like diablo but with other windows that slide on/off or pop-up
Of course Psy =). There's ar eason I am designing such a robust UI. It should be just about completely customizable.
I have the splash image thing going at startup. It displays, pauses for 500ms, then Initalizes the Mod, destroys the Splash image, and starts the game. If there is no mod, the game quits, no splash screen, etc.
Z.
Excellent =)
Do you have a command line parameter that allows you to start a mod at run? (eg. tow.exe -mStandard, which would load the mod called Standard)
At the moment loading a mod looks like "Divinity.exe UIDemo" loads the mod UIDemo, located in the folder UIDemo. At release, I plan to make it "DivLoader.exe UIDemo", which opens UIDemo.package, extracts all files into the "cache" subfolder, and loads "cache\UIDemo.dll", and runs, or, if UIDemo.package does not exist, use the method above. If that fails, load tow.pacakge.
I just added in some more memory management, so, when you attempt to load a media file that has already been loaded, it returns the handle originally generated for that file.
Z.
Ok, the message queue is giving me problems again. Regardless, windows are now movable =).
Z.
Sounds cool Zaei. Can't wait for you to post a demo when its ready.
i was wondering with the demo u say u will release in a few weeks (perhaps) - is it src inclusive ? ie will any src be "going" with it ?
I don't know... maybe enough to make a mod I think. We'd have to include the code to made a base mod (ie. nothing on it but could be run without any errors, giving a black screen). But I'm not sure, because I don't want to make ToW open-source.
We might be releaseing the source to the multi-player version of TOW, a la Half-life.
Z.