Sentience: VB Game (comments please)

Well seeming as windows takes care of conventional memory I dunno if this is going to be accurate, but this is my mem /c screen :

Code:

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Modules using memory below 1 MB:

  Name          Total          Conventional      Upper Memory
  --------  ----------------  ----------------  ----------------
  MSDOS      66,912  (65K)    66,912  (65K)          0    (0K)
  VMM32        2,720    (3K)      2,720    (3K)          0    (0K)
  COMMAND      7,344    (7K)      7,344    (7K)          0    (0K)
  DOSKEY      4,688    (5K)      4,688    (5K)          0    (0K)
  Free      573,360  (560K)    573,360  (560K)          0    (0K)

Memory Summary:

  Type of Memory      Total        Used          Free
  ----------------  -----------  -----------  -----------
  Conventional          655,360        82,000      573,360
  Upper                      0            0            0
  Reserved                    0            0            0
  Extended (XMS)    67,107,840            ?  132,833,280
  ----------------  -----------  -----------  -----------
  Total memory      67,763,200            ?  133,406,640

  Total under 1 MB      655,360        82,000      573,360

  Total Expanded (EMS)                67,108,864    (64M)
  Free Expanded (EMS)                  16,777,216    (16M)
  Largest executable program size        573,232  (560K)
  Largest free upper memory block              0    (0K)
  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

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I alt-tabbed out of Sentience and ran it.
Or did you want me to do something else ?

Hmmm.... you've got 560k free.

Interesting.

Ok, i'll show you a few things i did first :
First my comp gave this when i did mem /c

Code:

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Modules die geheugen onder 1 MB gebruiken:

  Naam          Totaal          Conventioneel      Upper Memory
  --------  ----------------  ----------------  ----------------
  MSDOS      30.448  (30K)    30.448  (30K)          0    (0K)
  HIMEM        1.168    (1K)      1.168    (1K)          0    (0K)
  OAKCDROM    36.064  (35K)    36.064  (35K)          0    (0K)
  DISPLAY      8.304    (8K)      8.304    (8K)          0    (0K)
  DBLBUFF      2.976    (3K)      2.976    (3K)          0    (0K)
  IFSHLP      2.864    (3K)      2.864    (3K)          0    (0K)
  WIN          3.776    (4K)      3.776    (4K)          0    (0K)
  vmm32          880    (1K)        880    (1K)          0    (0K)
  MSCDEX      32.384  (32K)    32.384  (32K)          0    (0K)
  COMMAND    10.320  (10K)    10.320  (10K)          0    (0K)
  Leeg      525.984  (514K)    525.984  (514K)          0    (0K)

Samenvatting van geheugen:

  Geheugentype        Totaal      Gebruikt        Vrij
  ----------------  -----------  -----------  -----------
  Conventioneel        655.360      129.376      525.984
  Upper                      0            0            0
  Gereserveerd                0            0            0
  Extended (XMS)    67.043.328            ?  182.697.984
  ----------------  -----------  -----------  -----------
  Totaal geheugen    67.698.688            ?  183.223.968

  Totaal onder 1MB      655.360      129.376      525.984

  Totaal expanded (EMS)                            67.108.864    (64M)
  Expanded (EMS) beschikbaar                        16.777.216    (16M)
  Maximumgrootte van uitvoerbaar programma            525.968  (514K)
  Maximumgrootte van beschikbaar upper memory-blok          0    (0K)
  MS-DOS is aanwezig in het HMA (hogere geheugen).

---

Then i began working on it, after 8 min it looked like this : (btw : i left it this way)

Code:

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Modules die geheugen onder 1 MB gebruiken:

  Naam          Totaal          Conventioneel      Upper Memory
  --------  ----------------  ----------------  ----------------
  MSDOS      20,208  (20K)    20,208  (20K)          0    (0K)
  HIMEM        1,168    (1K)      1,168    (1K)          0    (0K)
  DBLBUFF      2,976    (3K)      2,976    (3K)          0    (0K)
  IFSHLP      2,864    (3K)      2,864    (3K)          0    (0K)
  WIN          3,776    (4K)      3,776    (4K)          0    (0K)
  vmm32        1,824    (2K)      1,824    (2K)          0    (0K)
  COMMAND      7,424    (7K)      7,424    (7K)          0    (0K)
  Leeg      614,896  (600K)    614,896  (600K)          0    (0K)

Samenvatting van geheugen:

  Geheugentype        Totaal      Gebruikt        Vrij
  ----------------  -----------  -----------  -----------
  Conventioneel        655,360        40,464      614,896
  Upper                      0            0            0
  Gereserveerd                0            0            0
  Extended (XMS)    67,043,328            ?  267,194,368
  ----------------  -----------  -----------  -----------
  Totaal geheugen    67,698,688            ?  267,809,264

  Totaal onder 1MB      655,360        40,464      614,896

  Totaal expanded (EMS)                            67,108,864    (64M)
  Expanded (EMS) beschikbaar                        16,777,216    (16M)
  Maximumgrootte van uitvoerbaar programma            614,880  (600K)
  Maximumgrootte van beschikbaar upper memory-blok          0    (0K)
  MS-DOS is aanwezig in het HMA (hogere geheugen).

---

But, uhhm, how do i say it :
It didn't make a ******* difference

The game still gives me the mem error, and it still blows goats...

Code:

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1-10-01 16:42:32 I blew goats at: mobile buildings

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So i wish you good luck with the next debug...
Looking forward to it !! (i really would like to see the game it's self once :D)

Icheb

Icheb, what OS you running ?

i use : win 98 SE

When was your last reboot ?

less than 60 min ago... i guess about 50 min ago...

Do any other programs run funny on your system ?

allmost everything (it still is windows) is working fairly good...

What should there be wrong ?
I think it indeed is a bit strange a system because i have placed hardware in it that isnt exactly known to work good together, but it still works (voodoo III and Via chipset on the motherbord for example).

What do you think is strange about my system ?

Icheb

Quote:

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Okay dokay, it's Monday morning and I've some things to answer - so here goes...

Usako, DaoK,

Try running the game from a fresh boot. Ensure the machine hasn't been on for the past 4 weeks solid without a shutdown and you're not trying to run 2000 things in the background.

That normally solves it.

Failing that, could you tell me at what point you're getting the message (screenshot as well if poss). DaoK, if that screenshot was just slightly bigger it would have been great, but you've missed off the scrollbar at the bottom so I don't know where it's up to.

Tanus has been getting this problem as well and I'm about to knock up a debug version for him. If you (Usako, DaoK) still can't get yours to work then you can try the debug version and send me the log it will produce. I'll upload that version tonight.

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I had rebooted my computer like 1 hour when I tryed the game :( I do not understand how you game take all these ressource :\

Quote:

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Originally posted by DaoK


I had rebooted my computer like 1 hour when I tryed the game :( I do not understand how you game take all these ressource :\

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Doak : You arent the only one with the problem...
I just gave Arbiter a mem dump of my system, but it said i had more free mem then another tester, so it really is something in the code (i think)....

Well the code works, and has always worked on my system, arbiter's system, I can only assume behemoth's, and a myriad of other people that have tested it.

There's just something up with your systems.

But we're working on it !

That is indeed true.

The best suggestion I have at the moment is that it's down to the amount of conventional memory free on the machine. I'm sure it's machine specific because it works on all of my machines, both of Behemoths, 3 of my friends and loads of peoples on these forums.

Plend has been helping my out try to diagnose the problem, but as we can't duplicate the error ourselves it's proving somewhat difficult.

Daok,

Could you run the command prompt and type

mem > c:\mem.txt

and send that file to me please?

Icheb,

How did you fare with removing/himem-ing the drivers in your startup files?

Whilst discussing this with Plend, he came up with the wonderful suggestion of running DXDiag and seeing if it mentions any problems with creating DC's.

Some drivers for some hardware cannot create Device Contexts, and as Sentience uses these for the graphics this will cause problems.

If you could run DXDiag and do a full diagnostic and see if any errors pop up, that would be great!

Ta people!

I now have 600 k conventional free...

I'll dxdiag tonight and post everything (i think it's dutch again...)

But im sure you'll translate for us :)

Okok, ok, ok

I'll translate everything i can translate...
My english sucks (my opinion, just got a A for it today).

I need to go away now... will do it tonight after i have burned a cd for a friend...

Icheb

Here you go...
A english DXdiag dump (only read 20 lines before i decided i didn't need to translate)...

I hope you can use it,

Icheb

Try running a few diagnostics and see if they work...

All,

Okay people, here's the latest debug!

Just copy the sentience.exe over the top of the one in the gamedev directory.

The file is in the usual place and it's called msgdebug.zip.

It will throw msgboxes at you telling exactly where it's up as it goes along. If you can just remember what the last msgbox said before the error occurs and let me know then I can pin it down to the line in the code that's causing the problem.

If your copy of Sentience is fine then I do not recommend running this debug version as it will seriously hammer you with msgboxes - this is only for the people who's copy is giving out of memory errors.

Thanks.

----- and on a more personal note ---------

Icheb,

Thanks for sticking with us and still trying the game, even though it's being a bit odd on your machine.

Plend,

Thanks for trying to help me track down this fault. I owe you a Guinness.....

Smirnoff Ice is more my kinda scene to be honest :)

ok,
This probably is a good way of trapping whatever what's wrong...

here you go, a screenshot from just before the crash.
May i note, it was the second time i saw it, at loading buildings.
So, the problem is not at the first time that msg is displayed.

Icheb

I had a feeling that was going to happen.

Quote:

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Originally posted by plenderj
I had a feeling that was going to happen.

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why ?

Well from what we can tell, the CreateDC() and DeleteDC() functions arent working 100%.

We've both been testing them independently of eachother, and there are issues with both. Namely the fact that CreateDC() can be an abusive ****er, and DeleteDC() does not release the memory that was being used by the DC.

We're still working hard on it though.

This was the second time you saw it?

So you saw it once, followed by a tribe of other msgboxes - one of which saying that if you saw him then the problem was not with DCs?

And then this one popped up again?

Definately?

Madness, utter madness!

If it's crashing there, then that means it will have called at least one deleteDC, which is the little bugger that's causing the problem.

Also Plend,

You know that code you mailed to me yesterday, could you mail it to [email protected] please?

I'm at home today and I can compare it to the code in Sentience and see if there's any differences at all.

Sent.

Thanks Plend, you're a hero!

I'll start comparing the two in a second when I get your mail.

Icheb,

I've uploaded a new version just for you - Icheb.zip which creates the DC slightly differently.

It may or may not work but could you give it a try please?

Ta muchly!

Ok, 2 things
1. CONGRATS, the bug at loading buildings is solved
2. Sorry to report another out of mem at the end, at 'launching game'....

I hope you can solve it the same way !!

Conventional Memory is not used by windows programs.

I just tried it, pretty nice.
Though after I started the game and resigned, it simply got into an infinite loop of running the computer players, and then jammed up on turn 28. (I had 2 computer players).
Btw, you might want to add an option for NOT changing the screen resolution, because it didn't change back when i exited.
If you want to use sound without DirectX you could use FMod (www.fmod.com) - I wrote a typelib for it which makes it easier to use, if you think it might be worth it. I like it a lot better than directsound.

Mind pointing me in the direction of the latest files? All I have is GameDev.zip.

Oh, and by the way, try changing the name of the folder and file. I already have GameDev (Scrolling Game Development Kit) on my system. ^_^

Icheb,

Whooo hooo! Now all I need to do is find out why it's stopping at launching game. I'll post again in about 15 mins after I've cooked something up!

Janus,

Yep, Plend has educated me on the complexities of conventional memory. I'm a dinosaur and I was still living in the past... :rolleyes:

The latest files can be downloaded by following the link in my signature and downloading the update.zip. Extract the files and copy them over the top of the gamedev directory.

You may also rename the gamedev directory to anything you like or move it wherever you please, Sentience will find it's files as long as the directory structure is intact.

I'm great at finding those kind of bugs, you'd be suprised how many of them my older game projects had. If you want any help, let me know ^_^

Mind checking out my graphics library and samples? I need comments.

You're using piles of offscreen DC's, eh? I should check out your DC count in the task manager :)

I've uploaded a new icheb.zip.

This again will bombard you with msgboxes, so tell me the last one you see please...

Ta!

Janus,

What graphics lib and samples and what DC count in what task manager?

Ouch... more GDI usage than explorer >_< And quite a few pagefaults to boot. You might want to consolidate your images onto fewer DCs, each DC uses up a large amount of system memory. That can cause out of memory errors - DC's using up all your memory.

Mint!

So what should I use instead of DC's?

I'm a bit biased, but my graphics engine has it's own offscreen surfaces ^_^ But they're 32-bit so they take up a bit of space.
You could try consolidating the DC's, I see that each tile is it's own bitmap. Try loading them all and merging them into one big DC. If you are interested in using my graphics engine, let me know. It doesn't have the raw speed of DirectDraw or GDI, but it's close, and the special effects and buffering are extremely fast. :)