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Well we still have a couple of big steps before we can beta anything even remotely resembling a game. We have to work out some collision detection, implement our new renderer code (which is too sexy :D) and we need to fix several bugs.
I'm going to get a couple of our classes posted up on here tomorrow. Not sure which ones yet though. In the mean time feast your eyes...
http://www.noteme.com/doomsharp/img/dd.PNG
Looking good guys!
Is the map editor the only thing that has been released? Or is there source code for the game around too? When you do release the beta will it be in EXE because I can't compile .NET code.
The source code stickey thread here holds all the classes that hopefully is 100% done now. We will add files there every time we think a class is 100%. But it is always hard to know though.
When we release the Beta, I guess it will be as an EXE. But when we are done, both EXE and source will be handed out. So people can play with it as much as they want.
Thanks
- ØØ -
that rendering code is doing my eyes in :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
[wossy]: uhh why?
[keda]: look at that "line" under the 123 thing
hmm, yeah i think you have a slight inaccuracy there, the lines shouldn't curve.
there's also something funky going on with thoise two gradient lines
Yeah that curvature is due to the lack of perspective correction.
The funky gradient strobing is caused by the simple DD calculation.
Neither of these problems will be easy to solve, especially the perspective. We'd have to seriously reorganise the 3D and graphic systems.
Hello Phil,wossname and Noteme,So,hows this doomsharp thing going on? I dont see so much traffic in posts as before these days...hmm,slowing down??
Yeah its slowing down because the blitter algorithm is proving difficult. Its nearing completion but I need it to be pretty airtight before it gets moved into the game. It'll pick up momentum again once its done.
Yea, it is all Wossys fault...:)
And my works fault...I have beens stressed beyond all limits the last week or two....havn't had time to do much more then fix some bugs and do some speed test....
- ØØ -
Note has been bugging me about it, so I guess I'll have to take it up again ;)
I am never bugging you.....you are bugging me...:D
BTW
http://www.vbforums.com/images/ieimages/2005/10/1.png
Woooohoooo.....nice going Wossy...:D...BTW did you change any of the code, or is this just compiler settings...:D
You were bugging me a couple of days ago ;)
Anyway, I've got the perspective rendering up and running again, this time with the magic numbers :D Still need to tweak a lot with it, replacing floating point calculations with bitshifted integers, and fix or replace the bresenham incremention, and then render polygons floors etc..
Yeah I stripped out a few variables, cached a calculation here and there and changed some ints to uints to use as for() counters. Also, liberal use of unchecked{} blocks to remove arithmetic overflow checking, plus deleting a few unused vars and code.
All this made a huge difference, sped instantly jumped from 260fps to 350fps jsut by using unchecked{} and uints!
Building to Release mode with optimisations ON yielded a record speed of 560fps (right after a reboot and disabling all non-essential processes.
There's still a few bugs to iron out and optimisations to squeeze in. DD is still a problem though, it messes with gradients pretty badly. The normal textures come out looking like someone puked luminous yellow slime on them.
Hmm.. maybe rethink the plot to account for it?
How bout this: Aliens came and invaded several key locations vital to the safety of the world. That luminous yellow slime is their mark of ownership...
PS Can you post a screenie of this? Sounds interesting...
Have anyone seen Brads sticky? Maybe we should nominate D#..:D..
I'll post one tonight, it looks really crap actually, not something we actually want in the game. If it comes to the worst then we'll just abandon distance darkening. We'll have to wait and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by timeshifter
NEWS:
I'm installing the new blitter in the game tonight. To-Screen clipping is more or less done now and I'm happy with the framerates.
The GDI+ libraries are badly written I have decided. Along with several other libraries in the framework. Performance could be hugely improved in many areas. D# will prove that this is possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
Errrr....that means that we also have to send ALL wallparts in front of the camera to the renderer. That can mean up too an infinit amount of wall parts...you are aware of that...:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
Maybe they will ask you to rewrite .NET?..:)
Sorry I meant to say "abandon DD in its present form". We can always try to figure out a fast bit of math that darkens the image without highlighting the ugly bit planes.
Its a shame that DiDaLoDiPoS is now defunct, I liked the word. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
If you manage to tell me what it means, then I might be able to understand it too....:sick:
Distance Darkening [with] Long Distance Polygon Substitution.
What worries me the most is the FPS, as seen from your screen shots it looks like it's pretty slow. Since the FPS is so low this means that it could be putting a lot of stress on somthing else. Doom 95 is about the same as DoomSharp() but the goot thing about Doom 95 is that on avarage I can get about 900 or more FPS. If someone new somthing about C++ he/she could get some source code from other 2D/3D Graphics engines, combine that with there coding and make a beutiful engine. This would lead to a faster FPS. Whats your goal on how to solve this problem?
...:::ONE:::...
I think you have missunderstood something here. Please read the introduction to this project again.
ANd yes, I have a few years of C++ on my back. And no, we are not going to use unmanaged code like that. And no we are not going to use an graphics API like OpenGL like Doom.
- ØØ -
Further more there is absolutely no point aiming for 900 fps, in fact there's little little reason in aiming for a game speed of more than 60.
I have completely rewritten the rasterizer from scratch and now it should be comparable to the shabby GDI+ version we had a while back, but without the ugly tearing. Should be significantly faster, with a bit of luck.
"hi" http://www.vbforums.com/images/ieima...chmentid=37787Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.noteme.com/doomsharp/contact.php
This is really starting to look good, keep up the great wokr guys :thumb:
Anyways, besides that you guys are doing a great job :thumb: . I could never make somthing from scratch in that amount of time.
If your up to it I would like to volunteer to help with the GUI part of the game, if you don't already have somebody. I could help with the hud and main menu if you'd like. If you want, I could make you some examples, put them in a zip file and send them to you. I specialize in GraphicsDesign (FIreworks, Photoshop) and WebDesign (HTML, PHP, Dreamweaver), if you need someone just contact me.
...:::ONE:::...
Your eyes can't process 900 FPS. Which is why wossname said 60 is about right. I don't think they can process over 75 can they?
chem
Yeah we need a decent intro screen image. Something inspired by the original Doom (I & II) box covers, at 800x600. Although it doesn't necessarily need to have any player/enemy characters on it, which is another thing we could do with, bitmaps of our players that can be used in game. We'll need to discuss this later though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ...:::ONE:::...
I have little creativity this area (my code is my art :D). So see what you can come up with.
I know that the eyes can't tell the difference over 60 or 70 I was just saying that doom 95 runs at that rate on my computer. I wan't telling you guys to make the frame rate 900 FPS. If its only going 60 FPS its putting stress on some thing, if it was higher this would mean that almost any computer can run it at a high frame rate and the eyes couldn't tell the difference.
...:::ONE:::...
Sure I could help with that, I will post an example later.
Thanks,
...:::ONE:::...
The eyes are fully deceived into believing motion at about 25 FPS, actually.
Monitor refresh rates should be at least 75Hz, but the outer (more sensitive, but colourblind) areas of the eyes can detect flickering up to a little above 100Hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ...:::ONE:::...
That sounds great. I couldn't draw anything but a stick figure in paint if my life dependent on it.
If you are making a menu or something, then remember to save a layered version, so we can add or remove menu items as we need (but I guess you are smart enough to do that..:D)
If it is ok with Wossy, it would also have been cool if you could have managed to make some enemy billboard samples. I am not sure if it is easiest to do this in a 3D modelling package and then turn it around for snap shots, or if making it in a 2D package would be the easiest.
But that is only if you want and have time, and wossy think it is ok..:)
PS: Do me and wossy sound like an old married couple..:D
- ØØ -
And for you small kids arguing about refresh rate. You are all a bit right and a bit wrong. The most importent thing to remember is that the eye works differently with different lighting conditions. A have bookmarked a really gooda article here about it. I can see it is updated since last time I read it. So it probably contains even more usefull info:
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frame...humans_see.htm
- ØØ -
It's fine with me dear, what would you like for dinner tonight?Quote:
Originally Posted by NoteMe
Was an interesting read NoteMe.
chem
Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
I don't care as long as it is warm and ready on the table when I get in the door, and as long as it is enough beer for the boxing match tonight..:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalNova
Thanks, I think so too. I had always wondered about it, and I couldn't find any answer anywhere. Maybe not that weird, since we don't know for sure..:)
- ØØ -
The latest perspectival rendering news: Now renders both walls and floors :D
Keda, your floor is backwards :)
Hi there - this looks fun :)
As you are breaking a few rules in c# and stuff could do with some assembly optimisation (interface through a dll) :) I wouldn't mind if you gave me one or two algorithms for me to tackle and convert to assembly. It depends if you are willing to accept an external dll to call it or maybe there is a way to run assembly straight from the program (maybe with the callwindowproc function?)
Well, tell me what you think for at the moment though I'm at a fairly 'steady' period (I'm working on ThunderVB functions, playing with voxlap (and making it work from vb6), messing with assembly versions of sort functions, do a stats task for key skills, going to college every day for some unknown reason....(oh yeah, I have to), writing IDE for Lightning Basic(barely started...not sure if its continuing anyway )...planning to learn some more c++, learn some more 3d stuff and use irrlicht (maybe ill try and learn c++ with it), fix bugs in my HTML EBook Compiler........ , finish off my trendline graph class for vb6. )
Hmmmm...... maybe my timetable is a bit full :P -....but who cares, with all that going on I should be able to fit in time to mess around with some of this too :)
Raedwulf
ah stop complaining :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
We are still deliberating whether or not we'll be using any ASM here. I'm veering towards not using it at the moment, My framerates have been quite favourable without it so far. But we are going to have a nightmare with trying to debug the blitter once it is installed in the game. I tried to install it the other day and its a long and involved process and it did run without crashing but only for about a second before it started to slow down to a crawl and nearly locked up the machine.
I was able to verify that a few frames were rendering properly and I was able to strafe left and right really smoothly before it hung.
We'll need to trace the source of this problem before we can recode it in ASM anyway.
For the time being we'll be using the old blitter for general debugging of the rest of the game and we should be able to move ahead with other aspects of the game like the intro, player images, sound, storyline and of course everyone's favourite: REALLY REALLY BIG GUNS. :p :cool:
So, does this mean you'll put out the new final map editor? I'm getting rusty on my map-building, and can't wait to convert some of my old maps...
Ok, that's no problem, I've added something to my schedule list - revise for Physics test. :) So I'm kept busy anyway :)Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
I don't think there is any problem with implementing with asm because you are using windows specific features and .NET is not terribly portable yet until Mono is better and supports ms .net produced apps.(Correct me if i'm wrong)
Good luck with the project.
Raedwulf
With a bit of luck I'll be able to sync up with Møøseman over the weekend and then i'll release another version of the map editor for you to play with.
Don't go overboard with it though, it will most likely change again soon. The only changes to it will be a new vector class, a few bug fixes and a more restricted set of criteria for textures (BMP's only 24-bit color only, 96dpi resolution).
It'll be enough to keep your skillz sharp, map man :D
Synced up. New vector class, added both to the dev folder on the server and the source thread. As I expected, there is no performance boost at all. But at least we are synced again...:) Also done a few small changes in Camera and Matrix class, but nothing you have to worry about wØØsy.
- ØØ -
Idle curiosity again: Is there a viewer with it?
Map editor released, no new viewer - sorry.
Code:mov eax, sleep
mul 1000000hours
mov [wossy], eax ;shhhhhh
Just curious, is there going to be multiple floors, and slopes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeshifter
A viewer with what? The sync? Are you in the wrong thread? Do you mean the map editor?
- ØØ -
Quote:
Originally Posted by ...:::ONE:::...
Nope, it is at least not planned at all, so if it ever happens it is going to be in 2048....:)
- ØØ -
:lol: yeah VERSION 2048 :D
I'm sure wossy can handel it. :D
Well theoretically its possible if we have one map for each floor in the building but we'd have to use an elevator to enclose the player while the transition takes place, then open the doors again to reveal the new level. Might be worth thinking about in the future.
One thing I was contamplating was using the gun sight as a means to interact with things in the world (like Doom 3 does). Might be very hard to implement though, maybe assign a special key to it or something.
I wish doom 3 was better, its just really lame. Maybe i'll give it a second chance sooner or later.
I thought more something like this. It could work, we havn't made the collision detection yet, so that is not a problem. But we still have to rewerite the culling and the map editor a bit. But not sure if it is worth it. The walls are leaf thin anyway, so open 2 floor rooms will look weird, and witout that it is going to be pretty pointless won't it? Well, you can have room that has higher cealing though...that can be nice...but that is more or less it, witout making it look weird because of the leaf thin floor parts...
- ØØ -
How about the way Duke3D did it?
Basically identical to what you're doing now, except that the cieling and floor (and hence walls) could be varying heights.
Well, they didn't have the 'cube' room restriction, but still.
Note, I had thought about ramps too but it would mean a whole rerwite of several key things. That's why I suggested elevators. Nothing happens in lifts between floors (unless you are stuck in there with some stunning secretaries) so it gives us time to load a new map in the background.
You'd walk into the Elevator cube, the player would lose control of the game (so we can automate everything without the user trying to walk out between floors :D) and the direction vector would freeze. Then we can write a bit of code to show some animated doors closing. From that point onwards you'd feel like you are in an elevator. The map outside the lift is destroyed (or cached depending on how much ram we've got to play with). Then the new map is loaded and the doors open again.
It would be seamless and realistic!!
I like this idea a lot.
A lift could be how we advance through the game, work your way down through an underground complex (a bit like the building in the Resident Evil movie).
Wo000o0t
Why not a teleporter? You could do a wavy,think Wayne's World dream sequence ;-), fade and arrive at a completely different location.
Much more then your map editor and loader?Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
I like it too. But I can tell you right away. The map will not be cached....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname