While it can be a lot of work and pain you can hedge your bets and try to develop skills using several tools. No programming tool is best at everything, and some can take you where others cannot.
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While it can be a lot of work and pain you can hedge your bets and try to develop skills using several tools. No programming tool is best at everything, and some can take you where others cannot.
That's one of the wisest things that's being said in this discussion. "What's the right replacementfor VB6" is absolutely the wrong question because there is no "right replacement". There are just a bunch of tools available to carry out a bunch of possible tasks. Identify the task(s) you need to complete, pick the tool(s) that seems best to carry it out and don't allow that decision to be coloured by some miss-placed resentment of the fact that the world moved on before you were ready.Quote:
No programming tool is best at everything
Lets hope this project gets some momentum and is a sucess:
http://vbvs.cloudapp.net/
The ability to maintain legacy VB6 code in today's modern Visual Studio IDE is all most of us Classic VB6 developers really need and would go a long way to to silencing the calls to bring back VB6. I wouldn't be suprised if the guys in Redmond were actualy behind this!
I don't think is has anything to do with Microsoft. It reeks of "3rd party."
The IDE is the least of what most people need in terms of modernization. Think about things like better native icon support, native GDI+ support, unsigned data types, manifest generation, a new C2.exe code generator, etc.
Beyond that a lot could be done simply through some new libraries, but 3rd parties do pretty well there as long as you're willing to spend some money.
Following the "get tools" link it looks like the same product cited in some earlier posts. (I could be wrong of course.)
As a VB.NET extension it will not be usable in the free express version of VB.NET which means users would have to shell out for Visual Studio NET. I don't know how many would want to do that for VB6.
In addition to that I agree with you dilettante. If your not going to change anything else why not continue to use the old IDE.
Well, it's mighty hard to buy VB6, at the moment, so if it worked, there'd probably be some market.
Its funny because VB.Net has all of these things which makes me wonder: why haven't you guys moved there if these are the things you need ? This is why the gripe in VB6 vs VB.Net threads make no sense to me. You say you want these things and when you get them, you still complain :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
Here we go around the circle again. VB.Net does not give you those things. It is an entirely unrelated language that brings its own baggage.
If anyone wants to make a break like that they can do so. Or they can do the same thing but move to something offering you more in exchange for the pain. A move to a JVM language makes more sense because it gains you portability in an age where Windows has a murky future.
That is why I am trying to make the jump from VB6 directly to C# because those two languages are in no way related there is no of this trying to use the wrong version of the language in the wrong framework, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
As far as I know Microsoft mutates C# even faster than VB.Net, so I'm not sure how that gets you out of the churn cycle problem.
Well if you want to get technical, it's more accurate to say the .Net Framework gives you these things, which you can use from VB.Net.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
Getting into a word-use debate with Dill? Cray cray!
God help me!Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Pfffft! I think we're all beyond help from any deity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niya
-tg
Learn a newer and better designed language.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
If your upset because technology changes, you're in the wrong field.
It seems relevant to point out that there seems to be a "VB6 Migration" ad running on the forum. Sadly I only spotted it as I navigated away from a page and now it doesn't seem to want to come back but if you refresh a page a few times I guess you're likely to see it.
And no, this isn't a prank to see how long I can get Axisdj to sit furiously hitting the refesh button but, damn, I wish I'd though of that:)
http://i60.tinypic.com/33xdgyv.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
;)
Not really bait. If someone finally has come up with a decent migration tool (which would be more than MS managed) then it might alleviate a lot of the worries of the VB6ers. It would mean moving to .Net, which I know isn't the first choice for many of them, but at least it would provide a viable path forward.
A migration tool for VB6 is complex by nature.
Think about what you are asking it to do.
To be 100% Accurate you would have to handle all the oddball ways VB6 code was written.
No one wrote to a set standard. Work arounds abounded.
Having re-written many vb6 apps in vb.net I believe there will always be situations where there is no direct translation.
I have the perfect migration tool for VB6.
Buy Vb.Net
learn it
get smarter
stop whining!!!
and JUST convert your code already!
Or wait and convert it to an Android app ;)
Honestly if I look back over my 35 year career I've had a dozen languages and several hardware platforms go out of favor. Seems like crying about VB6 now would be like me saying "where is my PDP-11 Basic" when I need it!
At least you have the same hardware to play with - for the moment at least!
The old "misery loves company" argument?
Moving to .Net has been an option for a long time. Anyone who hasn't done so has reasons, and fantasy-based arguments won't convince anyone.
The weird thing is that .Net users feel so threatened by any thread suggesting something like a successor to VB6. This is especially weird considering how unlikely such a thing is to ever happen.
You must be misinterpreting some post because I don't get that vibe, but then again it's acceptable that you'd misinterpret it because it's estimated that %55 of communication is through body language and 38% is the tone of voice. So it's tough to accurately interpret something correctly by just reading some post on a forum. Heck, I may have even misinterpreted your post.Quote:
The weird thing is that .Net users feel so threatened by any thread suggesting something like a successor to VB6.
I thought that VB.Net was a successor to VB6. I just Googled define: successor and it says:Quote:
This is especially weird considering how unlikely such a thing is to ever happen.
VB.Net succeeded VB6.Quote:
a person or thing that succeeds another.
I also did not understand that post Dil made...
Misery loves company - is that what all us .Net'ers are - miserable?
Dil - what do you code in?
I do not think anyone is threatened by requests or demands to bring back VB6.
I do think some people are threatened by VB.Net and others are threatened by change in general ;)
Sad, just sad. Admitting you have a problem is the first step you know.
I'm not sure what the languages I write in has to do with anything. You don't see me calling for a VB6 successor, but I don't try to belittle those who have hope.
I know you guys get bored, seeing as the .Net questions are dwindling as it loses popularaity. Maybe you should stop feeling so threatened by change and invest in learning something new.
It's called a conversation - if you can't answer that you are just rude.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
Hilarious.
Honestly - that's your answer? That's the best you can do? Sad, sad person you are...
What problem do I have dil? I'd like to better myself.Quote:
Sad, just sad. Admitting you have a problem is the first step you know.
Just casual conversation I'm sure. I have seen you post some VB.Net questions, so I'm assuming you're probably using VB.Net.Quote:
I'm not sure what the languages I write in has to do with anything.
As far as I can tell .Net questions are still as alive as ever.Quote:
I know you guys get bored, seeing as the .Net questions are dwindling as it loses popularaity.
I'll respond to that with a quote.Quote:
Maybe you should stop feeling so threatened by change and invest in learning something new.
Quote:
You must be misinterpreting some post because I don't get that vibe, but then again it's acceptable that you'd misinterpret it because it's estimated that %55 of communication is through body language and 38% is the tone of voice. So it's tough to accurately interpret something correctly by just reading some post on a forum. Heck, I may have even misinterpreted your post.
...Virginia Tech 20 year reunion dinner party (for IT college geeks)...
"Hi Joe - how you doing - long time no see".
"Hey Bob - yeah - been a while - where you working now?"
"Just got a job at a web house - had to learn JavaScript - doing .Net backend though - at least that's familiar to me".
".Net - when did you learn that?".
"Ten years ago - when it came out I decided I should see what it could do. I couldn't find any new VB6 jobs"
"Wow - I'm doing mobile coding for Android devices - Java like code - nasty libraries to work through - but it's a living. Nothing like VB6 - can't even compare two string variables - have to use a .Equals() method!!!".
...they both turn around and there stands Bill...
"Hey Bill - didn't see you there - how you doing?"
...no answer...
"Where you working?"
...Bill head turns downward - still no answer...
"Bill - you ok? You don't look so hot"
...no response...
...Bill slowly backs away...
Another sad story brought to you by "Where did my VB6 go".
The issue stirs a lot of emotion. I was talking to my brother-in-law last week about this topic. He got to explain to Bill G why there wouldn't be the upgrade path from .NET to VB6 that axisdj wants. He doesn't bring much emotion to the subject, as he has long since left MS and is a pretty practical person in general. He's not surprised at the level of emotion surrounding the subject, but he's also made it fairly clear that those who feel there was some kind of conspiracy probably haven't read enough Dilbert. What happened is nothing more than the result of lots of people tugging in lots of different directions. It wasn't a grand stategy, it was the same old sausage making that occurs in any large organization. There were good reasons, bad reasons, and marketing.
The bottom line: It is what it is. The impact of the last decision will influence the next decision, though we may not be able to see how. It's why I prefer systems and don't believe in conspiracy theories: Once they get sufficiently complex, any logical explanation explaining how we got to the current location is certainly wrong in whole or in part. You like the current situation or you don't. You speak up about your views or you don't. Either action will change the system in some way, and you may or may not recognize the effect you had, and if you do recognize the effect you had, you may or may not be right about that recognition.
We should never belittle. Strive to embiggen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
“A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man!”
Jebediah Springfield
Attachment 116949
I would guess that he uses VB6 quite a lot. Hence the Us vs Them mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9
I use both. I like both. Depends on the task at hand whether I would be using VB6, VB.Net or some other language.
I'm an ISV that has fed a family of six for 14 years now with a VB6 app. Maybe it's because it was far from my "first language" that I had no problem with .Net arriving on the scene.
I personally like re-writing code - and by making it part of the cost of living for my clients it's a win-win.
I've got a migration plan for those VB6 clients - and so far it's working out great!
I wonder how you motivated them to migrate and pay for its rewrite?Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Simple, you stipulate it as a requirement if they want to see future development. Exactly what Microsoft did. Exactly what just about every other major software vendor does whenever the world moves. There's nothing unusual about this.Quote:
I wonder how you motivated them to migrate and pay for its rewrite?
No kidding. It would be a monumental task and one that MS themselves failed to adequately accomplish. None the less, the advert was there and I guess it's possible that someone has managed it, given that they've had so many years to throw at it. It's actually quite frustrating that I didn't get to click on the ad to see what was on the other end of it.Quote:
A migration tool for VB6 is complex by nature.
I'm pretty sure Dilitante mostly uses java and/or various languages and libraries over the top of it to develop for Android. He's been vocal enough about it. I actually suspect he uses a mish-mash of different tools according to the task at hand. I may not agree with alot of the positions he takes but on that, at least, I'm with him 100%. However...
Not really. Like it or lump it, .Net is the de-facto upgrade path from VB Classic. It's the vendor recommended path and it's the most syntactically similar. If the requirements of your application haven't changed then it supports the requirements of your application just as well as VB6 ever did and will provide the easiest rewrite. If the requirements have changed to the point where it's no longer suitable then your requirements have also chanegd to the point where classic wouldn't have been suitable either. At that point you're not upgrading your platform, you're switching it.Quote:
The old "misery loves company" argument?
If (and let be honest, we're seeing alot of this in the debate) you've decided you need to switch and are making up a whole bunch of new requirements which neither .Net nor Classic would support but which you would be quite happy to live without if you could just continue using VB6... well then the cross you're nailing yourself to do is one of your own construction.
I completely agree.
Which ad are you referring to?Quote:
I didn't get to click on the ad to see what was on the other end of it.
The one that talks about a VB6 environment in VB.NET?
Best of my knowledge that one is not a migration tool. It runs the old VB6 command line compiler as far as I know.
Don't really know. I only noticed it as I was navigating away from a page and it had gone before I had a chance to really take it in. It could well be the one you're refering to.Quote:
Which ad are you referring to?
Just like FD said - I had to tell my clients that future work would only be done within the realm of my new platform. Keep in mind that all the software I sell has an on-going maintenance portion - 15% of original cost paid annually. With that said - I am already am "open line item" in my customers budgets.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
As far as motivation - I had to show something better. Since it's web based - it's got nicer colors. That means nothing to technical people - but sometimes the folks who approve things like eye candy.
It's got way better upload, download, sort, graph capabilities. Some of that is because of the platform - some I just had to code better methods for them.
For example - with one customer - they receive a lock box payment file from the bank every day. In the past they would save the email attachment locally - drag it to some share on some server - run a Text Import program that was in that share folder - and look at the .LOG file to see the results. Very manual - very old school - from the big-iron days....
Now they save if locally - go into the web app - BROWSE to that folder (it's always the default anyway) - click UPLOAD - the web methods crunch through the same process as the old Text Import code did - and the results displayed right in the web app. They feel like they are in a dash board environment - no one needs to know about server shares any more. When the tax lady is out on vacation - anyone can run this process. Share security isn't an issue and so on.
That same business manager that liked the eye candy of the web app really appreciates this change. Office runs more smoothly...
Could I have done this in VB6? Sure I could have. Could have done it in .Net. Point is that creating a new version of software should be the natural process that most coders go through. Why not use the newest technologies?
For one customer it all came down to spell check. Spell check with WORD from VB6 has always been a kludge - even in the XP days the pop-up would sometimes not appear in front - if you had Outlook open already things really got weird. With Win 7 (and probably Win 8) those WORD-spell check problems got worse and worse. Browsers do SPELL CHECK naturally - without any effort on my part at all. So my guardian ad litem client that has dozens of social workers putting in "participant notes" all day long has a much better experience in a browser then they did with my VB6 app. Might seem like a silly reason - but to them it was a game changer.
I was just at this client site yesterday. I took that same "upload" code I just created for the tax office and gave them an upload screen for court decrees. Exact same UPLOAD.ASHX server code runs for them as runs for the tax office. That was a quick $600 to me - and I reused code from another client request. Could I have done that in VB6 - sure - it would have been hundreds of lines of code. The browser just packages up the file - and I do basically two lines of code to save it.
Software is all about change. Some clients fight it - us coders need to embrace it. If I find a dozen things that the operation needs to see done better I simply include them.Code:Dim postedFile As HttpPostedFile = context.Request.Files("file")
.
.
.
postedFile.SaveAs(Path.Combine(savepath, StoredFileName))
That's why I bought the latest version of Sony Vegas - I wanted some better features and they had them. And they had a discounted upgrade path as well.
Just to stay on topic. If there was a new VB6 - would I use it? Probably not. Even though I've got a decade of clients using my VB6 app - no migration tool was going to offer any of this new functionality.
Regarding the supposed "Ad" that FD saw: Perhaps he has also seen the Loch Ness Monster??? Or maybe FD drank the wrong cool-aid and is now halucinating VB6 conversion ads. I hear that facebook is trying out new hallucinogenic ad placement strategies.
Hmmm...need a pic for hallucinated bait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Don't know if this is what FD was talking about.
Visual Basic Tools for Visual Studio
Found it back on post #63 of this thread.
I actually love this idea. Maintaining VB6 in the latest Visual Studio. If done properly, it can make VB6 far more pleasurable to work with. I think they should have done something like this long ago but then that might not have encouraged people to try out VB.Net in the first place so I guess its not too bad that we get it this late.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruff
If you read the link I do not think it is Microsoft behind it.
Also since it is running VB6 behind the scenes it is still subject to the issues with that version.
Further it only extends the Non-Express versions of 2013.
I own 2010 Standard edition and VB6. they work fine.
I cannot justify shelling out the big bucks just to work in one environment.
If I ever need to work with framework 4.5 then I will consider it.
I don't think so but it could have been. I took a look at that (just teh site, I didn't trial it) when it was posted originally and teh ad I saw had a different look and feel. I haven't seen it since though which is... annoying.Quote:
Don't know if this is what FD was talking about
Seen her?! I've dated her!Quote:
Perhaps he has also seen the Loch Ness Monster
Oh, really? I heard she was something of a cold fish...Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
I heard She was emotionally Loched up
that She didn't like it when you made waves.
On the contrary, dating her was an absolute plesiosaur.
All these puns = :eek2:
I was going to say that extending VS to house VB6 projects would be a good idea as it would get vb6 developers to learn the new IDE and language and transition to .net but this would be a double edged sword as they may not want to migrate to .net and hang on to their legacy vb6 code.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruff
Just create a vm, install windows 7, install vb6 and call it a day
One of the advantages (sic) of VB6 is the simplicity of the IDE.
Personally, once I took on the .NET environment - it is very intimidating, especially if you came from an almost exclusively VB6 environment - the 'simplicity' really wasn't that, but a restriction in capability. This is ignoring the framework itself, and the vast range of tools.
A new VB6 wouldn't be VB6: from what I understand, the satisfying argument is to have VB6 be compatible with future OSs. But the arguments for VB6 seems to be a hodge lodge of contradictions.
Really - what about the .Net environment is intimidating?
And what do you mean by "a restriction in capability"?
At this point I think its safe to say that the remaining VB6 hold outs are never gonna migrate and those that did like me are NEVER going back to VB6 even if its with a better IDE so it shouldn't do any harm to give in to this now. The VB6 people can really benefit from a far superior IDE like VS2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Any new work environment is unsettling until you become accustomed to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by szlamany
Personally I didn't like that Microsoft redesigned the icons for 2012/2013.
Took me a quite a while to find the comment/uncomment buttons. :)
I'm still adjusting to the F7 not being code view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruff
www.xerocoder.com (cross platform ide/compiler) is willing to create a true vb6 importer that is 95% compatible with our current VB6 projects, please let them know you support this idea so we can speed up their development:Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9
goto their forum or email them.
http://forum.xerocoder.com/index.php?topic=273.15
Thanks
WP
I'd support it if it would make you happy but this is a pipe dream. Their primary focus seems to be grid computing and the VB6 importer is just a little side feature they're thinking about adding to their IDE. I wouldn't expect them to devote considerable effort into making this work as it would come at the expense of their core interests. The platform also seems wrong for your project which according to you, directly interacts with and manipulates hardware. XERO CODER seems to heavily favor database application development rather than being more generalized like VB6 was but I hope for your sake and the sake of others wanting this that I'm wrong. Nonetheless, I get the feeling that if this thing works, you're going to be spending a hell of a lot of time trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
I think you should just stop chasing these pipe dreams and move to something like Delphi. There were other VB6 programmers in your camp that chose this route instead of .Net and they seemed quite please. According to them, Delphi had no runtime requirements and it has a native code compiler.
I'm not for any importer. The developer should take the time to learn the new language rather than cling onto old techniques.Quote:
Originally Posted by axisdj
Ah it seems registration on their site is disabled so I won't be able to post on their forums. :(
At this point I'm tired of suggesting this. They wanna a shortcut, give em a shortcut. Maybe they'll stop bugging out on the forums about how evil MS is for making .Net.Quote:
Originally Posted by dday9