What is this guy on?

Well I was really enjoying myself on this thread. If you wan't to leave it at that nullus, then thats fine. However if you want to continue this discussion then I would be most agreeable. Don't worry, I'm not trying to change your views, just explain ours.

Either way, thank you for an enjoyable and well reason discussion :)

SD

Thanks, same to you. :) Sorry, I was enjoying it too, but I just felt it wasn't really going anywhere anymore. I think we've made our views pretty clear though. Feel free to respond to my last argument if ya want though. :)

Couldt be bothered to read the second half of this thread so i appologise if i am saying stuff thats already been said.

What good is owning the planet when it is soon going to be uninhabitable? By soon, im not talking about next week, but at the rate we are currently destroying it, i doubt there will be much left in 100 years or so.

It is a fact that you can easily survive without meat. You can get the protein and iron from other dairy products, such as milk, cheese and eggs. And you can get it from other stuff if you want to go to the extreme and be a (damm cant remember that word that means you dont eat any animal products).

You may say its less cruel for animals to be killed in a slaughter house because of the method of execution, but you are forgetting something. Before they are killed, they are queed up, and then done one by one. That means they know whats about to happen to them, as they watch their friends/relitives go through it first. Apartently, pigs tend to scream a lot when this is going on.



I'm not vegitarien, just thought i would correct you on what i considered a few inaccuracies.

Can't argue with that nullus (and believe me I would if I could ;))

lord_dude, you are really going over what's been said already, apart from the damage to the planet thing. You can live as a vegetarian, but the argument was about whether you should. The word you were looking for was 'vegan'. Being vegan isn't just about eating either, 'proper' vegans don't do things like wear leather or wool, they don't have anything to do with anything that came from an animal.

I take your point about the slaughterhouse thing, but your logic is a little flawed. You say they know what's about to happen to them. How can you tell? That means they have to see what happens, be aware that the other animal is being killed, and have the awareness of self to see that the same is going to happen to them. That's quite a feat of comprehension for a farm animal. I have to say I don't know much about the way animals are queued up in abbatoirs, so I can't really comment on it with much certainty.

Thats the word.

You underestimate the intelgence of animals. Dogs aret the cleverst of animals, but most people have seen a dog being pretty clever. If a lion is walking towards a hard of animals, the heard will run away. Thats coz they have seen what lions do to their kind.

Maybe I do, but I think you overestimate it. A herd of prey animals will run away because their instincts tell them to run away from anything that looks like a predator. There is a big difference between that kind of subconcious process - where the... well lets say its a zebra... where the zebra sees an animal which fits a predefined predator prototype and instinctively feels anxious and wants to run away from the predator, and also wants to stick with the rest of the herd who are also running away - and the concious understanding of being in line to be slaughtered.

Perhaps the animals suffer stress, in fact I'd be surprised if they didn't suffer stress, but I don't think that's because they comprehend the situation.

Give me an example of a dog being clever. I am very sceptical when people tell me their pets are clever. I have had pets and I've seen my friends' and family's pets, and I have seen animals that have learnt to do some cool tricks, but nothing I'd call clever.

Ok, ive only ever had one pet that is at all clever and thats my dog.

Heres a few examples. he picks words out of conversions. For example, you could just be talking and he might not even be in the same room, but you will say a word in a sentence that he knows like biscuit, walk, or his name or one of many other words, and he'll come running over to see whats happening. This might not sound that impressive, but it shows they are quite capable of learning, because there is no way he could instinctivly know the english language. Hes learnt from past experiances from whats hes seen and heard that biscuit means a biscuit.

He can be tactical sometimes too, when you are playing a game for example where you are chasing him when he has a ball or vice versa, he anticipated moves, hides round corners, sneaks up etc. A lot of dogs can be very clever, my dog is't particularly clever, just average.

I was watching a program earlier, about a wowan that used to be a magistrate, but quit when she discovered she could comunicate telepathically with dogs, and became a dog cyciatrish (i know thats not how to spell it). Its probably total BS, i admit, but you never know. The dogs seemed to be responing a lot to her.

Anyway, the point is, some animals are very clever, and it doest exactly take a genius of an animal to work out if one by one you are watching all your own kind be slaughtered for no apparent reason, you could well be next

Psychiatrist?

I know what you mean about dogs picking words out of conversations, my dad's dog even knows them if you spell them out now :) I agree that the dog is learning that these words mean something good (or bad in the case of 'vet' ;)), but that's not the same kind of intelligence as recognising a situation happening involving other animals, and having the awareness of self to realise that they could be in line to encounter the same situation. That's just a giant leap of comprehension.

I am sure your dog does stuff like that when you play, that's what infant animals do :) (domesticated pets like cats & dogs live their whole lives in a state of mental infancy.) I don't really think any dogs anywhere in the world are what I would call clever. They're clever for a dog, okay, but they're not that bright, come on.

The dogs were probably responding primarily to that woman's body language. That's how animals communicate mainly after all, so they're very sensitive to it. Horse whisperers do the same with horses, they don't claim to be telepathic or that the horse understands their verbal language.

So.... I really think it would take a genius of an animal to be properly aware of the situation.