Yeah, I think I saw that one fairly recently.
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Yeah, I think I saw that one fairly recently.
You seem to have made no attempt to explain your viewpoint; instead, you simply repeat it. Effectively, your response to every question you've been asked on this thread is a variation of "Because it is".Quote:
Originally Posted by Witis
Why is a minority government racist? Because it is.
Why does a president being from an ethnic minority mean that the majority are disempowered? Because it does.
Why is it racist for a white man to lead a team of black workers? Because it is.
Why do you think it's impossible for a black president to represent a white consituency? Because it is.
While your debating skills lack a certain finesse, I'm very impressed by your stamina. :thumb:
Hmm...
I had taken the topic of this thread to be "race" as in "contest."
I think Obama's race is important for two reasons:
1. Because having a black (or mixed race if you prefer) president of the United States is a milestone on the path to integration but more importantly
2. Because a significant minority on both sides of the fence clearly still think it's important.
It would be hard to deny that a significant proportion of the black voters in the US probably voted for Obama because he was black and because of the milestone he would represent. Equally, it's pretty obvious that there are a number of whites who will hate him and want rid of him for that self same reason. And they won't all be the sort of folks you'd normally categorise as extremist either. You've only got to look at the rumours that were spread about him being a muslim at the last election to see that some folks we'd generally regard as mainstream still hold some deep seated prejudices. The significant thing about that is not that it was mainstream pundits generating those rumours, but rather that those mainstream types knew that they rumours would gain some traction with the electorate at large.
In that regard I felt Witis, despite a bit of a lack of grace, was raising some interesting points. Whether we're comfortable with it or not there will be a significant number of people who do think that a black man meading whites is inherently racist, or at least racially significant. And the same in reverse.
Just to pre-empt, I know I've conflated muslim with black here which is not strictly accurate. But that conflation is just part of the murky set of slightly uninformed prejudices we're talking about.
Anyway, off the race topic, what was up with Romney's recent outburst? Was he really claiming that all liberals are dole junkies as is being reported over here or is his position being distorted by the time I get to see it? If that's really what he think he strikes me as a bit irrational, or at least prone to hyperbolae.
I have no clue whatsoever how anyone would conflate being black with being muslim. Sure makes me wonder about people. I guess none of you is black, don't have any black neighbors or friends, never had a black boss or coworker, know any black people, etc.
Most of the crap you read about Obama being "not born here" or "a muslim" or "communes with the dead" and so on is just FUD. You have a synergy between rank racism and the obstinate tendency to vote against ones own economic interests here that provides a ready audience for such BS here. So the Machine on the other side of the political divide from Obama is quite happy to oblige, though being as careful as they can (with glaring exceptions and outright slips) about covering their tracks due to the unsavory nature of this sort of campaigning.
Er, and in case you missed it Obama was elected nearly 4 years ago now and has held office since that time. So I have no clue where any "milestone" notion comes from, that's long past now.
You have to discount anything Romney says. He is totally isolated from the real world as a member of the monied elite. Most of his lines are fed to him but he often fails to repeat them as rehearsed. When he improvises you get some idea of how he really thinks, but the trick is figuring out when he's tried to say what - making everything he utters unreliable and incredible in the literal sense.
At least we're done with this soon. I just hope we come out of it clean rather than facing the prospect of the kind of neo-feudalism he espouses.
Unfortunately true. On the other hand, there are plenty of regular Joes that I know who would make absolutely horrid presidents.
By the way, my current handicapping of the race would say that Romney will lose. He can't seem to get out of his own way. The real question I have is whether the right's desperation to get rid of Obama will cause them to turn out in greater numbers than the left which is unenthusiastic about Obama. Neither fringe normally has the numbers to turn an election, but they may this time, because the center may be fairly evenly divided in their peculiar influences. Still, I think that the Obama machine will get enough of the left to turn out, and will get a slight majority of the center, and that will give hime the victory. I thought that was rather unlikely early in the year, but Romney can't seem to avoid tripping himself. That might still turn around, and he might get to control the discussion in some way. However, he's running out of time and showing a decided pattern of tripping before he gets his stride.
The reason that those who run are well-to-do is because they're really the only ones that can afford to do it. I've though about it from time to time in the past, but then it means taking unpaid time off ... as the main income source... that's not going to happen.
-tg
Sort of... I was in the Air Force... My political view - Libertarian. Smaller government, fewer taxes, personal freedom, personal responsibility, fiscally conservative, socially liberal. I plan to vote for Gary Johnson.
I remember when I got my wisdom teeth... it's only second to the time I torqued my back and the doc gave me codine to take "as needed" wheeeeee!
-tg
Just to be clear, it's not a conflation I make, but it is one that gets made, and made alot. That's why people were able to use it as ammunition against Obama in the last election. It's bizarre, but also quite common.Quote:
I have no clue whatsoever how anyone would conflate being black with being muslim.
The point I was making was that a significant minority (possibly even a majority at a sub-concious level, I don't know) do still view issues like race, religion, sexuality or whatever else you can think of as more important than ability when selecting a president. I don't like that phenomenon but I can't deny it's existence. That means Obama's race is important because a significant minority will make it important, rightly or wrongly (wrongly in my opinion). It's not limited to the US either, we're exactly the same over here in the Uk and I'm willing to bet the rest of the world is the same.
I was listening to an intersting skit on Radio 4 as I drove into work today. An American lady (I have no idea who, I missed the beginning) was talking about ways of taking the money out of the campaigning process. The conclusion seemed to be that it probably wasn't feasible but that if it could be achieved it would be a healthy step for any democracy. I'm inclined to agree.Quote:
The reason that those who run are well-to-do is because they're really the only ones that can afford to do it.