Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
FunkyDexter
No, but plenty have recieved hefty pay-checks from vested interests. I've never seen any figures on it but I feel pretty confident in saying that, as a scientist, you would stand to make considerably more money denying global warming than you would by advocating it. Oil companies would be queueing up to give you grants.
Not sure if you are aware that there are trillions of dollars on the line if climate change legislation passes? What will be set up is a global carbon exchange in which trillions of dollars of “air” are traded. Money will be siphoned from the so called “rich” countries and given to poor countries in a redistribution, share the wealth scheme. So there is a huge amount of money on the line if climate change restrictions are enacted. Big business is in climate change, Enron is the original company that wanted the carbon exchange set up, and companies like GE are pushing heavily for it because they have a lot of money to gain.
So I think you are incorrect in your assessment in thinking that you would make more money denying global warming, it could easily be argued that you have more to gain if you support it. After all if global warming is true you have to make global changes that affect the way we do business, if it isn’t true then you really don’t have to do anything. So climate change = global control and regulation, no climate change = status quo.
X
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
You are not saying that big business and government would perpetuate a myth for money are you? They wouldn't do that would they?
Just on the off chance that the US Congress passes a retro-active law to make BP pay more than it has to by law today, you don't think the law will be challenged and likely overturned do you? Congress looks good, BP doesn't have to pay, all is well.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
How confident should I be in the scientific prediction displayed here???
http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydro...,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
My word i dont think i have read something so biased and just plain wrong as that last post Xanith !
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What will be set up is a global carbon exchange in which trillions of dollars of “air” are traded
Says who ? and even if it were true what is your point ?
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Money will be siphoned from the so called “rich” countries and given to poor countries in a redistribution, share the wealth scheme
What's that got to do with anything !
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So there is a huge amount of money on the line if climate change restrictions are enacted. Big business is in climate change, Enron is the original company that wanted the carbon exchange set up, and companies like GE are pushing heavily for it because they have a lot of money to gain.
Yeh right are you telling be the big oil and gas companies are supporting climate change restrictions or green technology ? because i can tell you right now they have no interest. Oil is probably the most lucrative business you could be in why would they want to get out of it. Just look at the current BP oil spill. BP have had £20 Billion wiped of there share price £20 BILLION and it has barely touched the sides.
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So I think you are incorrect in your assessment in thinking that you would make more money denying global warming, it could easily be argued that you have more to gain if you support it.
You are talking nonsense, and anyway what self respecting scientist would publish false data to support something they knew to be false. they would be ripped apart in peer review. It just doesn't make sense. Scientists are not politicians many Scientists work for universities and independent research organisations they dont have an agenda to push and they dont do it for the money ! Only corporate backed Science has an agenda and that is in the minority.
The reason most governments and sceptics dont want to believe man made climate change is because of vested interests. You do not see those who dont believe in man mad climate change bring out any evidence at all basically just there opinion.
If any of you can show me some creditable Scientists out there that dont believe in man made climate change and have a good explanation on why then i will happily eat my words.
I am not fanatical but i have never heard anything from climate change deniers that even remotely challenges any of the science. The only thing i hear back is Science is not infallible you know ! well yes we do know this science is imperfect by its very nature. One of the very bases of Science is that our knowledge changes over time and what we know to be true know may not be in the future. This does not mean that Science is either useless or wrong in assessing climate change though !
If it did then i would suggest that science is also useless at most things maybe we should just ditch it all together as its so unreliable i mean what have we ever learnt from Science !
Xanith your whole post seems to be far more about how corrupt the system is and they will bring in loads of stuff to give money to poor countries and big business on the back of climate change. Well to me that is far more an indictment of the political system then anything to do with climate change or scientists.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
homer13j
Atlantis? Hiker, please... :rolleyes:
Ok, how about Atlanta. Would that be peachy (subtle pun on the peach tree state there)?
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I find your scientific skepticism to be wildly erratic. In certain cases you demand concrete, irrefutable proof before you'll believe anything and in other cases you'll buy into an idea simply because there is a consensus.
True enough. Some subjects I have enough first hand knowledge to form an opinion, while on others I don't.
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And it seems the amount of skepticism you display is based entirely on the political ramifications of the subject at hand. It's okay, we all have our biases...
We certainly do all have our biases, and mine are no secret. However, we simply haven't covered enough topics for the broader base of my skepticism to be displayed. On the other hand, I doubt we are going to get into any discussions on population modeling, crayfish science, or any of the other areas where I believe chaos theory dismantles the 'given wisdom'.
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I keep hearing the term "green industries" yet nobody can tell me exactly what they are. What goods do they produce? What services do they perform?
Two that impact my local area are: Windmills and solar cells. This states largest manufacturer was Micron, until its outdated plant became non-competitive in the memory market (it was based on a technology that got fewer chips per silicon wafer), so it moved production to other states. However, it still has an R&D footprint and a large silicon processing plant. They keep suggesting that they will move that to solar cell production for which the market can currently absorb all the production that exists. Were they to do that, they might, once again, become the largest employer in the state of Idaho. Of course, that wouldn't mean much to you, since the whole state has less people than your city, but it's a start.
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Consensus is not science.
True, but science requires more investment of time for any one subject than we car reasonably expend. At some point, consensus must take the place of science for those who are not willing or able to invest the time needed to do the science.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
dbasnett
@capsule - Why are you so eager to live in fear,
Fear? We'll all be dead before anything too significant happens anyways. This isn't an issue of fear, it's more an issue of the direction we want to start moving.
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Not only will you have wasted your time, but your children, or their children, will need to do the real work of planning how to re-locate the low lying areas.
If we are off oil, then we have gained even if you are correct.
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I don't like politicians / scientists trying to subtlety control me.
Yeah, climate change is as subtle as a fart in a bathesphere.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
dbasnett
Reasonably confident, though they could have improved the data by putting error bars around it. Hydrography isn't quite as chaotic as weather in general, because there are several stage gauges at various places. The volume passing the tributary stage gauges contributes to the volume passing downstream point X, and the relationship is relatively simple. Given sufficient upstream measuring points, the problem becomes about as difficult as predicting the weather an hour from now, which can be done with great accuracy, even though predicting the weather 24 hours from now is much less accurate.
When I lived in the Florida Keys, we had a map of the Atlantic on the wall. As soon as a storm was named, a pin was added. As each update came in, a new pin was added. If the storm headed towards a slot between Cuba and the Bahamas, we were going to get hit. Of course, by the time it reached that slot, it was almost ontop of us, so it wasn' some kind of magical prediction.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
Reasonably confident, though they could have improved the data by putting error bars around it. Hydrography isn't quite as chaotic as weather in general, because there are several stage gauges at various places. The volume passing the tributary stage gauges contributes to the volume passing downstream point X, and the relationship is relatively simple. Given sufficient upstream measuring points, the problem becomes about as difficult as predicting the weather an hour from now, which can be done with great accuracy, even though predicting the weather 24 hours from now is much less accurate.
When I lived in the Florida Keys, we had a map of the Atlantic on the wall. As soon as a storm was named, a pin was added. As each update came in, a new pin was added. If the storm headed towards a slot between Cuba and the Bahamas, we were going to get hit. Of course, by the time it reached that slot, it was almost ontop of us, so it wasn' some kind of magical prediction.
It was bait. I do have faith in the prediction. Short term prediction, based on long term data is OK by me. Long term prediction based on short term data, not so OK.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
I seem to be making up for missing a couple days.
In a general sense, I agree with what Xanith was saying. Any carbon exchange will have a significant economic impact. Some people will get REALLY rich from it, while others will not. I doubt we will shift more money to poor countries than we already do, but it's all just speculation until somebody comes up with a bill that can pass. Frankly, despite recent moves, I doubt it will happen.
I expect Congress to produce a whole bunch of hot air, which can be blown up DBs skirt (why DO you wear a skirt? Are you scottish?). Meanwhile, actual change is currently happening, and it is happening at the local or regional level. I expect more incentives for alternative energy, because some electric companies have determined that it is cheaper to give rebates for home solar, and so forth, than to build new power plants and transmission lines (doesn't matter if it is nuclear or not, people generally oppose having new power plants or transmission lines built in their area...go figure). There are also incentives for green power, which is leading to the rows of windmills springing up all over the NW.
Won't mean a thing, though, since our population keeps right on soaring.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
Uh, you see, uh, its like this... ;) What did Johnny Carson as the Great Carnack sp? tell Ed McM. "May a crazed pole vaulter charge up your sisters hoop skirt".
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
He really said that? Seems a bit risque for the old guy. Cool.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
He really said that? Seems a bit risque for the old guy. Cool.
I loved Carnack. Carson was actually funny, never been a fan of any of the players since, maybe Stewart.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
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Originally Posted by
dbasnett
i don't ask the doctor who gave birth how to raise my kids. In other news, i don't ask a guy who rode in a space ship how nasa should operate.
Re: Fear / Loathing / Reality
I am sure the Russians, Japanese, or Chinese will be glad to take us up if we need to go.
