iframe is a ms proprietary tag anyway...
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iframe is a ms proprietary tag anyway...
there is a joke around linux land that says ms made vbscript and asp for all those vb programmers that are out of jobs
All I know randy is that I make alot of money doing web development with ASP/VB! :p
Cool thing is, which will get me more into Linux world, will be the new .NET stuff. Since when that comes out for Linux, I can finally program for Linux. And Im sure some Linux people will throw a fit about a MS product on Linux, but they should be happy, becuase they will see a huge increase in software for Linux.
ya...well its all good but i dont think MS is god
I don't either, but you've got to admit that their software is the best around.
Without MS, there'd be no vb! and without Office, there'd be no VBa! and without IE, there'd be no VBScript, so I'm sort of leaning toward the MS is great part here...
Cander, i checked out your web site. I suggest putting something to the left of the banner so that it doesnt cut into your background.
BTW there is a Unix version of IE
I k now Randy. It is just a pre set HTML template I used. Didnt have the time to write my own page at that time. I am creating my own page now for the site.
ahh ok....if you use WYSIWYG editors i recomment Dreamweaver or Golive
I use XMLSPy which is the best. Can write html,xhtml, xml,xsl, and tons more. It rocks.
I DON'T HATE NETSCAPE THAT MUCH
Sonia
Netscape goes crazy if you have to many layers. I make pages in Dreamweaver that run fine on all versions of IE(4 and above), they just bomb on netscape. I hate having to add cross-capabilty coding to my web pages
...no point in arguing?...
ahem, if you are a web developer, you make such a magnificent site (note if you goto my website, it's a personal site so dont come back and say "thats' magnificent?") and it works like a charm in IE , then you get something from your customers saying , that it MUST support netscape, because a couple of their clients use it, then I have to reduce a hell of alot of nice features, or spend nearly a couple days, just to figure out how to code around, or change my code to work for both IE and NS least with ASP , you can show different code for different browsers, but it's still a pain in the ass.
Karl, how much of your site is written toward W3C and EMCA standards?
My Personal site is written with only IE in mind, if I have to write a site for a customer(such as the State of north carolina), I try to keep it W3C as possible, but I also have to provide features that both IE and NS have.
Well, if you knowingly write pages that do not conform to the standard, then quit your bitchin'. You can be all slap-happy, with that AOL-glaze look in your eyes over IE, but you have to understand, it very intentionally goes beyond the standard, just so people will say, "this doesn't work anywhere but IE". If you want to make the web better as a whole, then you have to work with the standard, improve and add to the standard, and not go off and do your own thing.
If you want to be a productive member of the web, then write toward the W3C HTML, XHTML, XML, and DOM standards, and the ECMA Script standards.
standard or not, netscape is a pain in the ass to work for, even if you are intentionally making it just for NS.
I have completely switched over to standards now, and so i get just as pissed at IE as i do at NS6! They both have OK, but not great standards support. Write for the standatrs, and let the browsers comform to you!
I cannot write for the standard, as my job REQUIRES the page to be both IE and NS compatible.
The Good
-- Looks and feels like Internet Explorer.
-- Just as fast.
-- MINIMIZES POP-UPS!! I LOVE THIS!!
The Bad
-- Not quite fully functional... /\
-- Permanent Banner AD ___/
-- Small window.
-- No mousewheel?
--the bad
not as standards compliant as IE and NS6
--the good
everything else!!! :D
Opera also completely Bowbs your computerQuote:
Originally posted by Sastraxi
The Good
-- Looks and feels like Internet Explorer.
-- Just as fast.
-- MINIMIZES POP-UPS!! I LOVE THIS!!
The Bad
-- Not quite fully functional... /\
-- Permanent Banner AD ___/
-- Small window.
-- No mousewheel?
If Opera bombs your computer, your computer is ****ed up!
Looks and feels like IE? And this is good why? Anyway, I won't get into that, since IE 'looks and feels' like Navigator/Mosaic.Quote:
The Good
-- Looks and feels like Internet Explorer.
-- Just as fast.
-- MINIMIZES POP-UPS!! I LOVE THIS!!
The Bad
-- Not quite fully functional... /\
-- Permanent Banner AD ___/
-- Small window.
-- No mousewheel?
"Just as fast". I'm sorry, but if Opera is running as slow as IE does on your machine, your machine is ****ed up! :)
The ad is there until you pay for the browser. Opera doesn't sell a server, so this is their only way to eat dinner. I don't mind paying since it is a great browser.
Small window? Only because of the banner ad. Get rid of the ad, and you have just as much space.
Yes, the lack of mousewheel is annoying.
Now, Opera is touted as being fully compliant, but I haven't tested anything for it, so I'm not sure. *shrug*
Why would you pay for a non-compliant browser while you can get IE or Nutscrape for free? The only reason I can see is if you are trying to surf on some old POS, just because Opera's file size is so small.
Well, it is supposed to be complaint, like I said, I haven't tested it. But it at least has innovation, size and speed over the others.Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Byrom
Why would you pay for a non-compliant browser while you can get IE or Nutscrape for free? The only reason I can see is if you are trying to surf on some old POS, just because Opera's file size is so small.
Besides, you are supposed to pay for IE. It is not supposed to be a free browser. But hey, no one pays for it because all of Netscapes browsers have been free.
I guess I need to work with Opera some more so I can say for sure if it is complaint or not.
I guess I just hate the fact that we already have to write stuff twice, and the prospect of writing something three times to support Opera makes me even more upset. Another issue is even if it is 'compliant' with standards we all know that IE and Netscape have their own versions of compliance too, Javascript for example. I am not a big M$ homer by any means but it would not hurt my feelings if Netscape and Opera disappeared completely. Of course that would make surfing on my Linux box somewhat difficult. BTW, how big of a piece of crap is Netscape 6? I was running it on Linux and I thought it was a piece of trash.
Oh well, if my boss wants to pay me to write something two or three times I guess that is cool too. :D
Netscape 6 is worlds better than Navigator 4 and Communicator 4.77. But it blows big donkey dicks.
Can I say that? Anyway... it is very much so a beast. It is large, it is slow, it opens too many connections to the server, it does not render page layouts very well at all. It is too much fluff, and not enough meat. I feel sorry if the Mozilla people are using the same Gecko engine.
I have Netscape 6 on my Linux box, but I've been using Opera. There are a couple of sites that have had problems with with Opera. I imagine these sites are built to the W3C standards anyway, so I'm not worried. One of the sites uses VBScript for client-side scripting, and IE is the only browser that supports that, so I don't mind skipping that site.
But then again, none of these sites were very fancy, using dynamic elements or widgets that would dissappear or move or whatnot. There were pretty much like VBForums.
Oh, Opera can be a dog on VBForums because of the hundreds of little images. I haven't check, but Opera might be opening a lot of connections like Netscape. IE doesn't tend to open to many connections.
For example, the pages I'm writing, which include no more than four images and a link to JavaScript source files that have to be loaded, IE opens two connections, Netscape 4.
I heard they totally rewrote it(NS6). Using client-side VBScript on a public website is just dumb. We do it on our intranet some, but we can control what browser our users are required to use(IE). Actually we are getting into using a J2EE solution instead of ASP now. It is pretty neat, but I totally suck at Java right now. By the way, what are you using to test the number of connections?
Oh, nothing fancy. I have IIS 5 on my W2K Pro box. I'm the only one using it, and when I pull down the page with IE, it says there are two connections. I stop the service and restart it to dump the connections, and try again with Netscape.
I started paying attention when I got messages saying he server was too busy. On W2K Pro, it has a limit of 10 connections.
Cool. I will have to try that out.
Stuff is getting better, and more compliant. I can see why you would not want to do this if you were workign for a client or something, but be like me! Write for the standards, and let the browsers work around you! Let them do the extra coding!:D
I agree completely. And when I finally get my machine running and start rebuilding my own site, I will only write toward the standards.Quote:
Originally posted by sail3005
Stuff is getting better, and more compliant. I can see why you would not want to do this if you were workign for a client or something, but be like me! Write for the standards, and let the browsers work around you! Let them do the extra coding!:D
Cool, another recruit! Look at http://www.brainjar.com if you have not already, that is the guy that got me thinking this way...
well i wasnt going to lower myself and vote on this one...but what the hey. :D
Even tho i do know that netscape is probably more stable and works better, however i still dont like it that much (only through lack of use)
Just thought i would end the discussion by telling everyone the news that netscape will no longer be produced. They have no stopped developing the program. Byt the way I like IE better.:p
Nah, Lynx is the best browser - you can get the content you want, without having to see all the junk "web designers" throw at you.:D
*Just Kidding*
I quite like the vbworld browser Geoff did :D
which uses IE as it's core!
Hehehe ;)
Anyway, Netscape 6 is still being developed!
***?!?!? I got an IE "Page could not be displayed" on netscape 7! What is this?
(BTW: I hate NS, just had a friend over)
I hate Netscape. The last project I worked on had to support Netscape 4. What a pain.
Our current web app is has requirements of Win 98+ and IE 6. Makes life easier for us.
edit . . .
Oh, yeah, I use Opera at home. It can get funky when you make the font color the same as the background color (for "inviso text"). In IE, you can highlight and see the text but Opera doesn't let you do that. There are a few other things Opera is funky with, but I still like it best.