[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God

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Originally Posted by DeanMc

I also think this is a weak argument for the simple reason that you are talking rubbish. It's your belief and that's cool but its not a tangible argument. Saying that Allah wrote the Koran is tangible. Saying that god made evidence to counter his followers evidence is just waffle. The funny thing is the first scientific prove of a god (if it happens) will be advocated by the very people that claim science is rubbish.

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Well, That's a great argument: "I think you are talking rubbish, therefore you are wrong." The scientific reasoning knows no bounds. :rolleyes:

Simply, you want tangible proof. Without said proof, God does not exist? Is that what you are trying to argue?

There's a reason the words 'theory' and 'belief' are used in these circumstances. Unfortunately, based on the nature of belief and God, there is no scientific theory to either disprove or prove His existence (and associated creationist beliefs).

So, how can you 'prove' that God did not make the world in 7 days? You can't. From a scientific standpoint, you do not have access to the 'tools' that God has to perform such a test, to demonstrate one way or other the possibility of doing so. Hence, it's a belief.

Because there is no scientific test, it's generally referred to as a belief and not a theory.

A lot of scientist and 'technically' minded people are very threatened by such beliefs because they cannot handle the dichotomy of holding two opposite 'beliefs' resulting in cognitive dissonance. Just because some cannot reconcile it [belief in god and scientific principles] does not mean it's irreconcilable.

The conflict, while it has always existed, is a more prominent issue because creationists want to replace (to a greater or lesser extent) the study of science and evolution with creationism, which is patently absurd.

Yogananda taught that the days that are spoken of in Genesis refer not to 24 hour days but to cycles that might consist of an enormous number of years each. I believe that God is the cause of this universe but I don't believe He created this world in 7 days. I think this earth is billions of years old. That doesn't conflict with believing that God is the creator.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

Yogananda taught that the days that are spoken of in Genesis refer not to 24 hour days but to cycles that might consist of an enormous number of years each. I believe that God is the cause of this universe but I don't believe He created this world in 7 days. I think this earth is billions of years old. That doesn't conflict with believing that God is the creator.

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See this makes more sense. I don't mind people who believe this because it takes into account that we don't have the full picture and could be through but to say that god lied about the age of rocks is just rubbish sorry.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

Yogananda taught that the days that are spoken of in Genesis refer not to 24 hour days but to cycles that might consist of an enormous number of years each. I believe that God is the cause of this universe but I don't believe He created this world in 7 days. I think this earth is billions of years old. That doesn't conflict with believing that God is the creator.

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I think the problem is some people take the bible literally meaning that 7 days is seven earth days. They seem to be forgetting or ignoring what the bible is telling them that this god is NOT of this world. That being said 7 days on other planets/world could vary in the amount of time.

For example a year on Mercury is 88 (of our) days or something like that! Now not having studied life, etc on another planet I can't be sure that the seasons, etc are different from our own here on earth. However, I reckon they could be.

Believing in god is one thing, and everyone is entitled to there beliefs. What i object to is when people try and fit something written in a very very old book around scientific theory.

Explaining Creationism by saying that maybe God made the rock old to begin with is a poor argument as is the fact the God didn't mean 7 earth days. Who Wrote the Bible god himself or Men ?? did these Men have any other concept of a day other than an Earth day ?

We have to remember the Bible and the Koran and other Holy books are just that books Written by Man, and as such are fallible just as Man is.

It is much more credible to say that at the time these books were written peoples understanding of the universe around them was limited and this will have coloured the way they depicted things. (even if they received messages from god surely there own experiences will form part of what they write)

These books shouldn't have to be an absolute accurate depiction of the creation of the universe or anything else, in my understanding much of it is supposed to be teaching about God and morality as much about anything else.

We wouldn't look to a book written over 2000 years ago to explain how to build a space rocket so why do we insist on using one to try to explain the origins of the universe.

Science has not disproved the existence of god, but what it has shown is that Man has a propensity to believe an awful lot of rubbish over the years and that as our scientific knowledge has increased our understanding of the world around has also increased.

Around 400 years ago people were still certain, and i mean CERTAIN that the Earth was the centre of the Universe. We wouldn't believe that today though as we have Scientific proof that it is not.

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What i object to is when people try and fit something written in a very very old book around scientific theory.

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I agree but the problem is that theists are constantly challenged to do just that. Look at any discussion about religion (this one included) and you'll find lots of atheists demanding "prove it!" and, as often as not, demanding that that proof be scientific. It not surprising that theists from time to time try to play the game they're being challenged to play and, usually, lose in spectacular fashion.

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I agree but the problem is that theists are constantly challenged to do just that

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I don't see this as a problem arguments are generally a good healthy thing, at least most of us here live in places were we have the right to question things in public.

I still stick to my point though, everyone has the right to believe what they want but it does get my goat when Theists will use Science on the 1 hand to try and prove there point and on the other say that no Scientific argument can be used against my belief as it is a belief and you cannot apply scientific theory to a belief.

Well this is just plain wrong, of course you can apply Scientific theory to a Belief. You may not be able to prove all beliefs are wrong with Science, but there are some that you can.

For Instance Gallileo was able to eventually prove that the Earth revolved around the Sun rather than the other way around despite the Catholic Church and many many other people Believing that the Sun Revolved around the Earth.

This is now accepted as a fact (well by most of us sane people anyway)

Anyway saying something cannot be scientificaly challenged because it is a belief just makes no sense, or does this just apply to certain special beliefs and not to others ?

I don't believe in God for the simple reason that there's no reason to believe in him. God, unicorns, leprichauns, genies and all the rest just don't have any evidence to back up the claims people make about their existence.

Current scientific knowledge does have a lot of holes in our understanding of things, but that's no reason to randomly insert some deity in those holes for the sake of filling them with something instead of just admitting that we don't know what the answers are.

Here's a pie chart that breaks down the percentages for different believers.

Attachment 72365
Atheists are only at 2.5%.
Obtained from this site:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

Here's a similar site.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

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Originally Posted by dee-u

It does seem that a lot of VBF members does not believe in God's existence and I am curious why.

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New York Rangers fan. 'nough said...

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New York Rangers fan. 'nough said...

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Lol.

NSA, you're still falling into the same trap. Your challenging a theist to give you a scientific/logical response to the question "Why do you believe in God" but you're missing the point that, for them, the answer to that question is neither logical nor scientific; it's fundamental. The answer is "Because I do".

Equally, incidentally, the answer to the question "Why are you not a believer of the existence of God" is "Because I'm not".

Any debate beyond those two responses really isn't an attempt to understand, it's an attempt to prove the other side wrong. It always is really. I don't think I've ever some across a discussion of this nature where either side is really interested in why the other side believes or doesn't. Instead these discussions always boil down to both sides trying to get the other to back down and abandon their beliefs. It never goes anywhere because someone who holds a fundamental belief (or knowledge if you prefer) cannot be dissabused of that with logic, the belief isn't logical in the first place. Conversly, someone asking for a logical proof of something is never going to be satisfied with "Because that's the way it is" response which is the only one a believer can ever give to a question they believe to be fundamental.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Lol.

NSA, you're still falling into the same trap. Your challenging a theist to give you a scientific/logical response to the question "Why do you believe in God" but you're missing the point that, for them, the answer to that question is neither logical nor scientific; it's fundamental. The answer is "Because I do".

Equally, incidentally, the answer to the question "Why are you not a believer of the existence of God" is "Because I'm not".

Any debate beyond those two responses really isn't an attempt to understand, it's an attempt to prove the other side wrong. It always is really. I don't think I've ever some across a discussion of this nature where either side is really interested in why the other side believes or doesn't. Instead these discussions always boil down to both sides trying to get the other to back down and abandon their beliefs. It never goes anywhere because someone who holds a fundamental belief (or knowledge if you prefer) cannot be dissabused of that with logic, the belief isn't logical in the first place. Conversly, someone asking for a logical proof of something is never going to be satisfied with "Because that's the way it is" response which is the only one a believer can ever give to a question they believe to be fundamental.

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Truly, 'nuff said :)

Personally, if one believes in God (or Gods, or Whomever that may be) has nothing to do with logic or a higher level of reason. I'll also add that using the 'people believed that the earth was flat' as an argument against a belief in God is a straw man argument. It's unrelated to a belief in God, even though 'the church' may have adopted it as a theological position.

It's a no-win situation; and even if it was a 'winnable' situation, what have you won? Does that change how one lives their life (the practical aspect)? You still have to pick up your clothes and put them in the hamper; neither logic and science, nor God will miraculously (sic) to this for you.

It's like a brain surgeon and a rocket scientist arguing who is smarter by performing tests in their own field of expertise - the brain surgeon will attest that they are smarter because the rocket scientist cannot do brain surgery, using brain surgery as a test of 'smartness'. Likewise for the rocket scientist. Unless a common ground can be found to perform the test, neither can demonstrate the superiority of their stance.

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I'll also add that using the 'people believed that the earth was flat' as an argument against a belief in God is a straw man argument.

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It's not really pertinent to the current discussion but the Church has never decreed the earth was flat - we've known it was round since ancient times and Pythagoras even managed to measure it's curcumference. There are no historical sources that claim 'the earth is flat' but there are plenty that say 'we used to think the earth was flat'. The whole 'we used to believe the earth was flat' thing is really just a myth that grew up in the last couple of centuries but it's become so embedded that we tend to take it as fact.

I'm not sure whether we ever believed the sun and planets orbited the earth either but I doubt it because, again, the Ancient Greeks had a full understanding of the orbits of various planets and there are even surviving models from the time. It's possible that the knowledge was lost and recovered but I think it's far more likely that it's another myth that's become accepted as truth. Again, you'll easily find sources saying 'we used to think the earth was the centre of the universe' but it's very hard to find any that say 'the earth is the centre of the universe.

The information age makes it very easy to perpetuate knowledge, but it also makes it very easyto perpetuate mistakes and rumour.



ps, Before anyone gets clever, the flat earth society do not count as a credible source:p

yes they do..... *runs*

Don't get me wrong, they're a fun source and many a happy hour has been spent goading them. :bigyello:

I wrote a paper on this very subject once and I will spare you the details but the conclusion I was able to draw was this:

The main reason people choose to subscribe to any particular religion is because they are afraid of death. The idea that death is the end of your life and there is nothing else is very scary and harder for some to grasp than the idea of a mystical deity.

When you are at a relatives funeral and a small child looks up at you and asks "is mommy in heaven?" would you find it easier to say "yes she is up in heaven and very happy" or to respond "mommy is dead and gone and there is no spirit world, she's just dead" So I think that religion was largely created as a way to cope with these types of questions and thousands of years ago when science itself was a new idea that most people did not know about it was very easy to spread religious beliefs.

Incidentally I was raised in a very strict Catholic family and if I still subscribed to the beliefs of the Catholic church I would have to stop reading VBForums altogether because it contains posts like this.

I think life is much more meaning full when you believe that this is all you have. If I were to consider this to be some BS staging ground for eternal bliss, then I would not look at life very positively, I would want to hurry up and get it over with to start the real show.

Likewise if we are here on earth for some "trial by god" to see if we live by gods rules so we can die and then go to heaven, then god sounds like an evil bastard to me... what kind of all powerful infallible being runs some sort of sick sea monkey experiment with a planet?

Ok so maybe some of you feel that if God exists He isn't very nice. This is from a lecture given by Paramahansa Yogananda: "He(God) has created each one of you, and He is throbbing in you, crying to enter your consciousness so that He may release you. I am sure He feels guilty for having created us! Every day I ask Him why He did it. (I talk to Him about anything that comes to my mind. He likes it, that I am "after" Him; He knows His creation is anything but perfect.) The Lord replies that you cannot make steel until you have made the iron white-hot in fire. It is not meant for harm. Trouble and disease have a lesson for us. Our painful experiences are not meant to destroy us, but to burn out our dross, to hurry us back Home. No one is more anxious for our release than God."

Earlier in the same lecture : "His whole creation is intended to disillusion you and thus cause you to draw back to Him."

Taken from Man's Eternal Quest by Paramahansa Yogananda, chapter Making Religion Scientific.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

Ok so maybe some of you feel that if God exists He isn't very nice. This is from a lecture given by Paramahansa Yogananda: "He(God) has created each one of you, and He is throbbing in you, crying to enter your consciousness so that He may release you. I am sure He feels guilty for having created us! Every day I ask Him why He did it. (I talk to Him about anything that comes to my mind. He likes it, that I am "after" Him; He knows His creation is anything but perfect.) The Lord replies that you cannot make steel until you have made the iron white-hot in fire. It is not meant for harm. Trouble and disease have a lesson for us. Our painful experiences are not meant to destroy us, but to burn out our dross, to hurry us back Home. No one is more anxious for our release than God."

Earlier in the same lecture : "His whole creation is intended to disillusion you and thus cause you to draw back to Him."

Taken from Man's Eternal Quest by Paramahansa Yogananda, chapter Making Religion Scientific.

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wow, now i believe because this guy makes odd ball analogies about hot iron and steel. Thanks god for all the death and disease, its been a great lesson.

Yeah, that totally explains why we 3 people got shot to death by a complete stranger for no other reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time yesterday
"god is inside of you throbbing to get out"

well I guess he is not in the 3 dead people anymore.

John Lennon said it best "god is a concept, by which we measure our pain"

Karl Marx put it better: Religion is the opiate of the masses.

George Carlin put it best: Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

There is a difference between believing in God and subscribing to an organized religion. In fact, if there was a God he/she/it would definitely not support the organized religions which are mostly aimed at attacking people who don't believe the same as you do. The real irony of this is the people who proclaim to be Buddhists and practice Buddhism in temples. Buddha definitely would not approve of his ideals being used to create an organized anything.

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Originally Posted by mendhak

George Carlin put it best: Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

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Yup.. wasn't that the 11th commandment?

I want to thank all you VBForums members that disagree with me. You are helping me to burn out my dross.

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NSA, you're still falling into the same trap. Your challenging a theist to give you a scientific/logical response to the question "Why do you believe in God" but you're missing the point that, for them, the answer to that question is neither logical nor scientific; it's fundamental. The answer is "Because I do".

Equally, incidentally, the answer to the question "Why are you not a believer of the existence of God" is "Because I'm not".

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I get what your saying, but i am not arguing about peoples belief in god.

My argument is not to do with belief in God, but more to do with other beliefs that surround it like creationism and other theories which are just nonsense and i believe can often quite easily be countered by scientific arguments.

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Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers

Quote by Funky Dexter


My argument is not to do with belief in God, but more to do with other beliefs that surround it like creationism and other theories which are just nonsense and i believe can often quite easily be countered by scientific arguments.

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When the religious people reject science because it goes against a 2000 year old book of questionable origin it just strengthens my non-belief but this is why I have more respect for some of the philosophical systems like Confucianism and Buddhism because they do not refute science in any way however I don't think they promote the idea of a specific God entity either.

Another intriguing fact about the Christian God is that without any form of hell he wouldn't exist. While Heaven is offered as the reward for living a virtuous life, hell is the penalty for being bad and the organized religions mainly use fear tactics to keep people returning each week and putting money in the offering plate. Without the penatly of hell people would put a lot less money in the plate each week.

recently my niece wass mauled by a miniature pincer. my wife was praying and thanking god. i said what for? she said for her surviving. i said if god exists he made her get mauled and have her bottom lip nearly get ripped off. thank him for that.

my biggest issue besides this is there are gay animals.

gay animals? what about just animals in general?

we are so similar to them, yet our only real advantage over them is brain size. We aren't the biggest or the strongest, we don't live the longest (still, despite all our scientific advances), we don't adapt well to surroundings (we adapt surroundings to us), etc.. I could go on and on. Pretty much the ONLY thing we are better at is thinking, and even that gets us into trouble, like making us think the fact that we are smart means we are above all other life on this planet and were made in the likeness of a supreme being.

If that is the case, chips must have been made in the likeness of gods hairy cousin.

Look, my thing is I think there could be a God(s) or not, and his alignment in our value system (for me secular human rights) is uncertain. Unless human rights can be proven to be a universal absolute, there is no reason to believe God would have the same values and culture as Humans have (all of which are results of cultural and biological evolution).

If there is a God I'm pretty sure:
1) He doesn't intervene (except maybe for large scale turning points in history), and never for cases of personal justice.
2) He is NOT any of the Gods depicted by current religions, this can be proven by disproving the Religious text, they are all absurd, self contradictory and often times cruel while professing their God to be benevolent.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

recently my niece wass mauled by a miniature pincer. my wife was praying and thanking god. i said what for? she said for her surviving. i said if god exists he made her get mauled and have her bottom lip nearly get ripped off. thank him for that.

my biggest issue besides this is there are gay animals.

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Are you for or against gay animal rights. Do you think same sex animal marriages should be allowed or do think all animal marriages should always be between a male and female animal of whatever species?

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Originally Posted by EntityX

Are you for or against gay animal rights. Do you think same sex animal marriages should be allowed or do think all animal marriages should always be between a male and female animal of whatever species?

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marriage was invented by christians.

I am in favor of civil animal unions.

Also, i don't think the earlier posted pie chart shows anything besides the fact that at the most, only 16 percent of the population is correct, and most likely only 2.2% is. Cuz let's face it, even if 98% of the world believes in a god, it's not the same one as everyone else does. Remember the scene in southpark the movie where everyone was in hell? Only one sect of christianity was getting in heaven, while baptists, etc were going to hell.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

Are you for or against gay animal rights. Do you think same sex animal marriages should be allowed or do think all animal marriages should always be between a male and female animal of whatever species?

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Mallard ducks are homosexual necrophiliacs (scientifically proven fact). They clearly believe in life after death; or should I say creating life after death ;)

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Originally Posted by KTech

When the religious people reject science because it goes against a 2000 year old book of questionable origin it just strengthens my non-belief but this is why I have more respect for some of the philosophical systems like Confucianism and Buddhism because they do not refute science in any way however I don't think they promote the idea of a specific God entity either.
Another intriguing fact about the Christian God is that without any form of hell he wouldn't exist. While Heaven is offered as the reward for living a virtuous life, hell is the penalty for being bad and the organized religions mainly use fear tactics to keep people returning each week and putting money in the offering plate. Without the penatly of hell people would put a lot less money in the plate each week.

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It couldn't be more silly unless virgins were promised. Where do all these virgins come from anyway?
as for the rest...
Your statement shows clearly that you are merely anti-christian. Either that or you have no idea at all what any other religion believes in. Off the top of my head, the Druids, Jews, and Muslims all have a bible much older than 2000 years so you weren't talking about them at all.

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Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers

Quote by Funky Dexter



I get what your saying, but i am not arguing about peoples belief in god.

My argument is not to do with belief in God, but more to do with other beliefs that surround it like creationism and other theories which are just nonsense and i believe can often quite easily be countered by scientific arguments.

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if something is proven, it is called a fact, not a theory. Now please explain the big bang theory and why it is better than any other one. It has in fact been discredited in most of the scientific community but it is still taught in schools. The only piece of evidence there was for it is the universe is supposedly expanding, although they base this on red-shift of light waves which also happens when they travel great distances through a vacuum. Who's to say there isn't another reason for it? When they say "we dont know where the rest of the required matter for our theory to work (77% of the mass of the universe is supposedly never-seen "dark matter") then maybe just maybe they are full of crap. In creation theories, there is not a shred of evidence that makes a creation being any less valid. As far as anyone knows, the universe was pooped out by a giant turtle.

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Originally Posted by visualAd

Mallard ducks are homosexual necrophiliacs (scientifically proven fact). They clearly believe in life after death; or should I say creating life after death ;)

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as a duck collector, i find that insulting. You were clearly referring to Turkeys, which have been demonstrated to try to mate with anything, including severed turkey heads on a stick.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

as a duck collector, i find that insulting. You were clearly referring to Turkeys, which have been demonstrated to try to mate with anything, including severed turkey heads on a stick.

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Nope, it was definitely ducks. :)

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picked into the back, the base of the bill and mostly into the back of the head of the dead mallard for about two minutes, then mounted the corpse and started to copulate, with great force, almost continuously picking the side of the head.

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sounds like a misguided attempt at cpr to me.

Point_1:

one thing to be said, science should delivered us to believe that God is really exist, at the end, with science, human can achieve in prudence. I don't believe this universe runs by it self without ' something ' taking care of it. And thats why holy book must be base for science, holy book that can't support sciences is questionable, we can't find any details for science in holy book, but we can find a point/directions for sciences,that's why we got mind to seek further,human can't created things that never exist before,human just can do modifications and combines things with sciences,sciences without faith is chaos,and faith without sciences is empty,both of em cannot be separated,it must support each other, so human can find em selves in balanced.

if u are very smart in sciences, then think of this :
- why there's sky for us ?
- why there's clouds, moon, stars, seas, mountains,ice,land,trees,rain,other organism etc

if u have all the answers on how they relate each others, then GOTO Point_1 again. ( if u really genius in sciences, can't u see the system ? then u'll be asking ur self, who create that system(s) ... ? )

to believe in God we must have our heart,mind and our actions in straight-line. The heart as the king, mind as minister and others as soldiers.

God don't need humans, but humans need God. God NOT forcing human to believe ' his ' existence, but with mind that God give to us,we'll find out that THERE is a God.

its not a doctrin, because you'll seek all the answers obey ur selves.

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Say, `(The fact is) He is Allâh, the One and Alone in His Being.
`Allâh is that Supreme Being Who is the Independent and Besought of all and Unique in all His attributes.
`He begets none and is begotten by no one.
`And there is none His equal.

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we can't think the form of God, this is the edge for human mind and logics,so why we can be so arrogances and despise God ?

and yes, i am muslim, alhamdulillah Islam is my religion.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

sounds like a misguided attempt at cpr to me.

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You are in denial.

how can a duck do chest compressions? they have to do something? and we have one witness to this thing. it that's all it takes to make it true, redneck alien abductees everywhere have been vindicated

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

how can a duck do chest compressions? they have to do something? and we have one witness to this thing. it that's all it takes to make it true, redneck alien abductees everywhere have been vindicated

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He even took pictures of the act taking place: www.ducknechropiliia.com

vertigo I like your post. I believe all religions lead to the same one God and I also believe that every path leads to God even atheism. Keep on being a good atheist and I say some day you'll become a believer in God's existence. Of course the atheists will disagree with this.

Devil worship also leads to God. The devil worshipper will eventually realize that devil worship is no good and will turn away from it to something better. People only seeking happiness through material channels will eventually realize that that will never satisfy their soul and will eventually realize you have to seek within yourself to find God's joy within to satisfy you. If you think things like sex, food, money, possessions, fame, movies, music, video games, etc will satisfy you then keep on seeking happiness in that way and sooner or later you'll realize that you want something better than what all of that can give to you. You might be then ready to start seeking God. Those things I mentioned aren't evil in themselves but our souls want something perfect. Only God and nothing less than God will completely satisfy us. We're all going to come around to that whether it is sooner or later.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, "Because Satan breaks his promises to give lasting happiness to his followers, they will all finally turn away from him to God."

satan actually allows people to do things they want to do, such as out-of-wedlock sex. You should read acts and romans in the new testament. it is pretty much the early church elders discussing what they should make the tenets of the faith. In the beginning it wasn't enough to believe Jesus was the son of god and died for your sins. Back then you had to give the church everything you owned and then work for it. Then there was the hours of praying, etc. But they didn't want to scare away other nationalities from becoming members, so they modified Jesus's teaching to suit.
There is a reason the first 4 books of the new testament are the ones normally quoted, and out of those 4, there are a couple of glaring inconsistencies, even down to what the final words of Jesus were.
Modern chrisitanity glosses over the vengeful and vindictive nature of their god. Remember the plagues? Well even Jesus, who advocated "turn the other cheek", exacted revenge on a tree because it didn't have a fruit on it.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

vertigo I like your post. I believe all religions lead to the same one God and I also believe that every path leads to God even atheism. Keep on being a good atheist and I say some day you'll become a believer in God's existence. Of course the atheists will disagree with this.

Devil worship also leads to God. The devil worshipper will eventually realize that devil worship is no good and will turn away from it to something better. People only seeking happiness through material channels will eventually realize that that will never satisfy their soul and will eventually realize you have seek within yourself to find God's joy within to satisfy you. If you think things like sex, food, money, possessions, fame, movies, music,video games, etc will satisfy you then keep on seeking happiness in that way and sooner or later you'll realize that you want something better than what all of that can give to you. You might be then ready to start seeking God. Those things I mentioned aren't evil in themselves but our souls want something perfect. Only God and nothing less than God will completely satisfy us. We're all going to come around to that whether it is sooner or later.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, "Because Satan breaks his promises to give lasting happiness to his followers, they will all finally turn away from him to God."

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But that's just something you made up.
This is how religions start. Somebody just makes something up because it sounds good, and people start believing it as if it were true. That's if it isn't someone making stuff up to make money or gain power through religion (Ron L Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Muhammed, Taiping Rebllion leader).

And the comment you just made is something that you just made up. And the universe is just something that God made up. And VBForums is just something that someone else made up. And whatever is said in chit-chat is something that whoever made up.

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and Muslims all have a bible much older than 2000 years

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The islamic faith only began in 700 AD. Loads of people seem to think it's older than Christianity but it's not. In fact it's an offshoot of Christianity. It doesn't recognise Jesus as the son of God but does recognise him as a prophet. It basically takes the view (and I'm simplifying here) that Mohammed came along 700 years later and corrected some of the miss-interpretations of existing teachings. In essence it's Christianity Plus or a biblical erratta.

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If you think things like sex, food, money, possessions, fame, movies, music,video games, etc will satisfy you...

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It's worked so far

I like the Greek gods better than any of the Christian ones. I'm going to start up my Thor cult again. Have to stop in the comic book shop to pick up some of our religious texts. Much more interesting to read than other religious texts and in full color!

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Originally Posted by KTech

I like the Greek gods better than any of the Christian ones. I'm going to start up my Thor cult again. Have to stop in the comic book shop to pick up some of our religious texts. Much more interesting to read than other religious texts and in full color!

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please don't mock a religion that is pro-mead and mutton.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

how can a duck do chest compressions? they have to do something?

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Yeah, I tried that excuse myself....it didn't work.:(

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

But that's just something you made up.

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Scientists only made up the Big Bang, no one has seen it and yet some people believe it.

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Originally Posted by dee-u

Scientists only made up the Big Bang, no one has seen it and yet some people believe it.

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But, can you honestly not see anything wrong with that comparison? For instance the fact that the scientists also back up their claims with arguments as to why the big bang theory could be true.

wow ... this place really amazed me with a bunch perseptions of yours :)
but, i've had enought with my believe right now, being a moslem is the very best thing in my life, and for all of u, the atheist here ... i've had no comments:)

- logic maybe something .... but that's not everything -----

( walking out .................................................................. )

regards all,

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Originally Posted by dee-u

Scientists only made up the Big Bang, no one has seen it and yet some people believe it.

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Noone ever saw the dinosaurs roam the earth either but we believe that happened too because that is how science works, you come up with plausible ideas and try to prove or disprove them. It is quite different from religion where someone writes something in a book so thousands of years later people are supposed to believe it is so with no proof at all. There is not even proof of who wrote the religious texts in the first place, could have been written by crazy people or developed on a website like VBForums

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Originally Posted by KTech

Noone ever saw the dinosaurs roam the earth either but we believe that happened too because that is how science works, you come up with plausible ideas and try to prove or disprove them. It is quite different from religion where someone writes something in a book so thousands of years later people are supposed to believe it is so with no proof at all. There is not even proof of who wrote the religious texts in the first place, could have been written by crazy people or developed on a website like VBForums

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this is actually a good example. If you open some old textbooks (and i mean 100 years old) you will see their pictures of what dinosaurs may look like do not even slightly resemble what they look like now. They had extra bones where they didnt belong, etc. In one case skulls were on wrong species. The fact is they know NOTHING. As far as anyone knows, dinosaurs had feathers. They can't even agree on whether or not they were warm blooded. Some scientists have postulated that a bronosaurus was too long for its brain signals to reach its tail therefore it must have a 2nd brain halfway back. Google just this one issue about them. You will find people saying that it wasn't a second brain, that it was the stegosaurus, that it was three different dinosaurs that all had two brains, etc. If they can't agree on the lifespan, color, diet (some claim tyrannosaurus was a scavenger), then what exactly ARE they agreeing on? My personal theory is they were dragons.

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Originally Posted by KTech

Noone ever saw the dinosaurs roam the earth either but we believe that happened too because that is how science works, you come up with plausible ideas and try to prove or disprove them. It is quite different from religion where someone writes something in a book so thousands of years later people are supposed to believe it is so with no proof at all. There is not even proof of who wrote the religious texts in the first place, could have been written by crazy people or developed on a website like VBForums

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There are dinosaur bones which proves the existence of dinosaurs, and all of these are all proofs of the existence of God which created them, the only problem is that some don't believe it to be so.

So just because the bones exist, it means that God created them? That argument doesnt hold up.

Just because there's a particle cannon in my bedroom, does it mean I created it?

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Originally Posted by Atheist

So just because the bones exist, it means that God created them? That argument doesnt hold up.

Just because there's a particle cannon in my bedroom, does it mean I created it?

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I am of the belief that only God can create so no, I don't believe you created that particle cannon.

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Originally Posted by dee-u

There are dinosaur bones which proves the existence of dinosaurs, and all of these are all proofs of the existence of God which created them, the only problem is that some don't believe it to be so.

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So do you think the dinosaurs all went to heaven?

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Originally Posted by KTech

So do you think the dinosaurs all went to heaven?

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In all honesty I don't know.

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Originally Posted by dee-u

Scientists only made up the Big Bang, no one has seen it and yet some people believe it.

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They didn't make it up out of thin air. True they didn't witness it, but they theorized it from existing measurements. You can look it up, but basically because of the color-shift of the stars, they realize that the Universe is expanding around us, which means it might have been a single point at the beginning of time.