-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
There is currently no conclusive evidence to prove either side of the debate and it would therefore seem sensible to adhere to the view that man is responsible for global warming on the basis that such a huge consensus has been borne out of a very robust hypothesis.
So what you (and many others) are saying is since there is no conclusive evidence was should still choose one side over the other. Good luck on that.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by homer13j
That's why I added the second graph which clearly shows the recent pirate-related cooling. ;)
Ah, I see it now. The scale is so small I barely saw those bumps.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Also saying that just because Fox reported it against a conservative it has to be true is about the weakest argument I have ever seen you put forth, even you must realize that.
X
You're right, of course. The comment was entirely flippant. I couldn't find anything other than the one report, which is hardly a strong basis for anything, so I resorted to flippancy as the whole thing comes down to anecdotes.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
Plus Sarah Palin has clearly stated that she never made the mistake. She would never state that when public record could be used to show her a liar as that would be counterproductive.
Nice reasoning, but recent history doesn't support it. Bush repeatedly tried to re-state his own record, and Palin certainly made plenty of incorrect statements as is, such as stating that she could see Russia from Alaska or her home, or whatever, which is impossible. They let her do one public interview and she fell on her face when handed softball questions. Are you so certain that she was otherwise on the ball? The only times she spoke in un-scrpited situations, she didn't come out so well, and tended to be inaccurate or incorrect. Frankly, all of those revelations except the Africa bit seemed entirely plausible.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
but you can see russia from alaska (or at least the continent). Curvature of earth gives you a horizon line of 10 miles from sea level to sea level (i was in the Navy) and when you add elevation to this, the visible termination is extended quite a bit. I know someone who used to live in Alaska on a military base and he said the same thing. They can be seen.
as for those "softball questions"...
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/09/...ns_sarah_palin
this is the actual interview and the only thing that sarah palin answered unsatisfactorally is "please give me a list of examples of John Mccain's actions in the senate from the last 26 years where he led the charge in reforming ... etc etc..."
How on earth would anyone possibly know the answer to that that wasn't there at the time? And Katie asked this question three different times. Finally sarah said "i'll bring you a list". Who can blame her? Besides obviously being incredibly uncomfortable in front of the camera, she did a wonderful job. I challenge you to come up with a question HARDER than this question.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
There were a couple funny things about that.
1) She said pretty much nothing in that interview. That's not a bad strategy for a politician, and I don't fault her any for it. However, the one thing she DID mention was about people watching McCain on the bailout. That was incorrect. His own party was asking him to leave because he was such a disruptive force. She talked about them not wanting the bailout as is, but McCain left off campaigning to push the original bailout through the senate. Not only was he for it, but until it failed, he was trying to appear to be leading the charge. In the interview, Palin stated that they were opposed to the bailout as it stood.
2) That wasn't the interview I have seen before, so I went searching. There are actually so many Katie Couric / Sarah Palin interviews that I gave up watching them after the first three (four actually, but I skimmed one, and it was pretty much the same one you posted). This doesn't help the situation. There were either multiple interviews, or, more likely, multiple pieces to one interview (the setting kept changing, even in the link you posted). Therefore, if you take just a few pieces, you can pretty much support whatever view you want.
Why are there so many pieces of that interview floating around? Some show Palin in a bad light, some in a muddled light. I didn't feel that she did a good job in all but part of one of the clips I watched, but then again, I'm openly biased. Still, she was distorting facts in two of them. In both cases, I felt the distortions were unsurprising for a politician, such as trying to change McCains initial position on the bailout, but others, such as her interactions with Russia, were remarkably ham handed. Surely, to reach governor of any state, even Alaska, she must have done some off-the-cuff speaking, yet she's remarkably bad at it. Find the clip on her discussing her relationship with Russia, it's nothing but a bad school-boy lie. I've been involved with politics for most of my life (I used to hang out in the state house), and have heard lots of political talk. I've never heard a politician at that level handle questions like that one on Russia so poorly. In her defense, she was dealing with a false position that she may have been placed into by her handlers.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
i don't think your data on mccain leaving campaigning to support the bailout as-is is correct. I watched it as happening on television and both him and obama stopped campaigning obstensibly to come up with a plan to save wall-street. After the plan was conceived, he then said he was against the version that was finalized and he thought it needed some huge changes, such as something that would benefit consumers (the refinancing of bad mortgages). It was a plan that was almost exclusively voted on along party lines (all 25 against were dems) but both candidates were against it as-is, although they were both for a bailout of some sort. So if you are going to fault McCain for being against something he really didn't have any say in making (one vote of 100), you have to fault Obama for the exact same issue. But they were both also there supporting the final result to ease the incredible public outcry against the bill, despite the huge stock plunge directly attributable to the defeat of a similar bill in the House of Representatives.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
So what you (and many others) are saying is since there is no conclusive evidence was should still choose one side over the other
What I'm saying is that when there's no conclusive evidence but there is a huge consensus across the scientific community based on a massive amount of compelling (if not conclusive) evidence it would be foolish to ignore that consensus.
It's actually pretty rare to find anything in science that conclusively proves any hypothesis. But when there's enough compelling data to create the sort of consensus we currently have on climate change it's as safe a bet to accept it as truth as you're likely to find.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
i don't think your data on mccain leaving campaigning to support the bailout as-is is correct. I watched it as happening on television and both him and obama stopped campaigning obstensibly to come up with a plan to save wall-street. After the plan was conceived, he then said he was against the version that was finalized and he thought it needed some huge changes, such as something that would benefit consumers (the refinancing of bad mortgages). It was a plan that was almost exclusively voted on along party lines (all 25 against were dems) but both candidates were against it as-is, although they were both for a bailout of some sort. So if you are going to fault McCain for being against something he really didn't have any say in making (one vote of 100), you have to fault Obama for the exact same issue. But they were both also there supporting the final result to ease the incredible public outcry against the bill, despite the huge stock plunge directly attributable to the defeat of a similar bill in the House of Representatives.
Might as well drop it at this point. I found loads of sources as to the sequence of events, but every one of them has what appears to be a political agenda at this point. The thing is, though, that at the time the articles were written, without the benefit of hindsight, the agenda that they appear to have now is probably not the same agenda as they would have appeared to have at the time they were written.
If you would care to see a load of links (there are more than you have time to read in the remainder of this year, of course), I'll hunt them up again. A few of them are actually credible, while others are not. The trick is to find articles written after the first vote (where McCain took credit for bringing the Rs even as the bill was going down to defeat), but before the bill ultimately passed. Articles written about the candidates positions after the passage of the bill appear to be generally skewed negative towards BOTH candidates, but they are well laden with hindsight induced wisdom as to what either candidate SHOULD have done.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Careful.....for some people man made global warming is a religion. You could be tried for heresy. :D
I'm still waiting for them to change to man made global cooling again or tell us that the ozone layer is shrinking again, maybe acid rain will make a comeback too *crosses fingers*.
X
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
anyone can claim anything they want about mccain and the first vote, but he had absolutely nothing at all to do with it. It was a house bill and he's a senator.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Well then, if anybody can claim anything they want, then it shouldn't bother you any that his campaign announced to Fox news that he had delivered the Rs in support of the bill, even as it was going down to defeat. Generally, when you oppose a bill, you don't announce that you have delivered your party vote in favor...though that isn't always the case in Congress.
My only comment on the global warming debate is this: We can comfotably predict that no crisis will ever threaten the existance of humanity to such an extent that there will not be people who will argue forcefully that it is all a myth. Sometimes they will be right...and only one time will they be wrong.
I made this point in regards to a fish that went extinct several decades ago. We had about 100 years of data regarding the population numbers of that particular fish prior to its extinction in the 70's. Some people were claiming that the population numbers were sufficient to have allowed us to prevent the fish from going extinct (and wiping out a valuable fishery), but when you looked at all the data, it was clear that we never really had a chance. The fish went through wild cycles of boom and bust. The fact that it would dip to zero on that final cycle could not have been predicted confidently by anyone. The changes necessary to prevent the extinction of the fish could have been successfully challenged by the economic interests who would have had to change their ways, because they would clearly have had the data to do so.
Similarly, no amount of evidence will sway more than a handful of people on the climate issue. Those who have a stake in one side or the other being right will have plenty of ammunition to keep the fight going for as long as they need to.
Mankind may well die with a bang, or it may die with a whimper, but either way it will certainly go to its death proclaiming that they were right and the other guy wrong.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
That's a good point. How many millions of people have died in the name of religion, for example?
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
I would post more, but I'm at work...
...and I could just as rapidly find a bunch of links advocating climate change but it wouldn't be particularly useful as we all know how many folks are out there posting partisan views. It really isn't difficult to find links to them.
Instead I'll post just one link. It's to google questions where some asks what percentage scientists belive in global warming. The answer comes back that it's very difficult to quantify but 95% is a fair estimate of those scientists who believe that man does contribute in some way to global climate change. Now, I'll freely acknowledge that this isn't a reliable source (for a start, how do you quantify who is and who isn't a scientist) but I'd arugue that it is, at least, impartial. And allowing for a wonderfully generous margin of error of say 15% that would still give us a whopping 80% of the scientific community who are in consensus. That seems pretty broard to me.
Let me ask you a serious and straight question. Do you believe that there isn't a strong consensus across the scientific community? That doesn't mean, are you unable to find a single dissenting voice (you will always find some - I can still find some who declare smoking doesn't affect your health). It doesn't mean can climate change be empirically proven (it never will be). It simply means, do you believe that a significant majority of scientists do not believe that man contributes in some way to climate change.
Oh, and nice selective quoting of my last post by the way. I particularly liked the way you turned 'accept it as truth' from a clause within a sentence to a single line imperative in a slightly childish attempt to portray me as some kind climate nazi. Allow me to respond in kind. From your post 67:-
:afrog:
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
...and I could just as rapidly find a bunch of links advocating climate change but it wouldn't be particularly useful as we all know how many folks are out there posting partisan views. It really isn't difficult to find links to them.
Instead I'll post
just one link. It's to google questions where some asks what percentage scientists belive in global warming. The answer comes back that it's very difficult to quantify but 95% is a fair estimate of those scientists who believe that man does contribute in some way to global climate change. Now, I'll freely acknowledge that this isn't a reliable source (for a start, how do you quantify who is and who isn't a scientist) but I'd arugue that it is, at least, impartial. And allowing for a wonderfully generous margin of error of say 15% that would still give us a whopping 80% of the scientific community who are in consensus. That seems pretty broard to me.
actually i have seen a investigation that is up in arms still, despite common sense. Studies by the FDA have shown that 2nd hand smoke gives you a negligible increase in the chance of getting lung cancer. it's something like .04%, which statistically could fall in the margin of error. But the bandwagon has jumped on to this issue and quoted individual lines from the report and used it as a basis to ban 2nd hand smoke. And no i don't smoke, but anyone with real investigative skills can not only see what has happened, but how it happened.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Actually, I agree with you on that. There's a consensus on first hand smoke being bad for you and anyone left arguing that actually smoking isn't bad for you (and there are some people still willing to argue this) either has their head in the sand or their snout in a trough.
The case for second hand smoke being bad for you is far less cut and dried at this stage. Certainly second hand smoke is bad for you, that's just common sense, but whether we ingest it in suficient quantities to have any noticable effect is far from proven. In the UK I think that the move ban smoking in pubs and clubs seemed to me to be driven more by political expediancy than by scientific analysis. That said, as a non smoker, I don't regret the ban. It means my nights out tend to be a bit more enjoyable than they were.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Careful.....for some people man made global warming is a religion. You could be tried for heresy. :D
I'm still waiting for them to change to man made global cooling again or tell us that the ozone layer is shrinking again, maybe acid rain will make a comeback too *crosses fingers*.
X
I heard the same thing about Gravity. All these nut-job scientist egg-heads claim that some magical physics law is holding us down. When we all know it's God's love that doing it.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx
I heard the same thing about Gravity. All these nut-job scientist egg-heads claim that some magical physics law is holding us down. When we all know it's God's love that doing it.
Really? I didn't know they were changing the theory of gravity every 20 years or so like they were doing with global climate change. :rolleyes:
No offence but comparing the unproven theory of man made global warming to the theory of gravity is laughable. There have been plenty of instances where these climatologists have been wrong in the past. I'm not buying into their latest theory without conclusive proof, and so shouldn't you.
X
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Why do you care? Every proposed change that I have heard has been beneficial to America. If this spurs technological innovation then it's a good thing, regardless of whether it is true or not. Most of the crying I hear comes from industries that don't want to change and want to scare everybody to keep the status quo.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
all i can say is a scientist can say whatever he wants, but those of use old enough can tell the difference by our own experience.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
all i can say is a scientist can say whatever he wants, but those of use old enough can tell the difference by our own experience.
:lol:
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Orwell
all i can say is a scientist can say whatever he wants, but those of use old enough can tell the difference by our own experience.
Are we getting back to Sarah Palin again?
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaza
Are we getting back to Sarah Palin again?
she's sexy. But no we aren't. I live in a state that has temperature extremes (as compared to alaska or florida or texas) and in my personal experience over the last 35 years, i have seen the winters be warmer and the summers be hotter.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
No offence but comparing the unproven theory of man made global warming to the theory of gravity is laughable. There have been plenty of instances where these climatologists have been wrong in the past. I'm not buying into their latest theory without conclusive proof, and so shouldn't you.
Or you could just grow up and get your head out of the sand. By the time we can prove it is happening it will be 10 years too late, and I'm sure your voice will be amongst those shouting at governments asknig why they didn't act earlier.
That's why many around the world were so keen for Obama to get into the White House. The idea of McCain and Palin just gave me chills. He's a relic and she's just brain-dead. At least Obama is intelligent enough to realise that the theory of global warming needs to be looked at.
Besides this could all develop more modern technologies, and considering the petrol engine design (although refined and perfected) has remained relatively static for some time. The main drawback of motor technlogies have come from the screams from the oil companies.
-
Re: We dodged the bullet of Palin and McCain's bad judgement of picking her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Or you could just grow up and get your head out of the sand. By the time we can prove it is happening it will be 10 years too late, and I'm sure your voice will be amongst those shouting at governments asknig why they didn't act earlier.
That's why many around the world were so keen for Obama to get into the White House. The idea of McCain and Palin just gave me chills. He's a relic and she's just brain-dead. At least Obama is intelligent enough to realise that the theory of global warming needs to be looked at.
Besides this could all develop more modern technologies, and considering the petrol engine design (although refined and perfected) has remained relatively static for some time. The main drawback of motor technlogies have come from the screams from the oil companies.
Vast majority of scientists are satisfied that Global Warming is proven.
It's very simple. Excess CO2 increases amount of heat normally absorbed.
Heat absorbed melts ice caps. Smaller ice caps reflects less sun-light back out to space. A positive feed-back system.
Where is the excess CO2 coming from? Probably from the billions of barrells of oil and coal we're burning into the air.
