General DoomSharp() Discussion

Maybe 2 metres for each wallpart? makes it easier to visualise.

I've been using this structure to represent 'wallparts' (only I use 2 of them for each wallpart)...

PHP Code:

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public struct Triangle
{
    public Point A;
    public Point B;
    public Point C;
    public int TextureNum; //the index in the textures[] array
    public bool Upper; //is this triangle the upper half of the texture?

    public Triangle(Point a, Point b, Point c, int tex, bool upper)
    {
        A = a;
        B = b;
        C = c;
        TextureNum = tex;
        Upper = upper;
    }
} 


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Just for the taste of it ;)

My engine has a LoadTextures(string[] paths) method that loads all the images specified in the string array. So once your 3d engine has booted it can call LoadTextures on my class and the indexes will automatically be right, then you can just send an integer along with each wallpart saying which texture to use.

OK, I think we maybe should merge the two classes after a while, in stead of having two. That will only waste resources. But no hurry.

OK, 2*2m is ok...will work from there.

Really nice texture...maybe we can sell the add space..:)

BTW a few questions about reading files. Not sure if you know the answer, but I have to ask anyway..:)

1. Is there a .NET function to concatinate file paths so it will both work in Linux and Win?
2. Is there a function like VBs "App.Path" in C# or .NET?


Hmm..think it was one more, but hmmm....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

My engine has a LoadTextures(string[] paths) method that loads all the images specified in the string array. So once your 3d engine has booted it can call LoadTextures on my class and the indexes will automatically be right, then you can just send an integer along with each wallpart saying which texture to use.

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OK, sounds good, will read the texture names from the file, and then call that function. Will it return something like an ID or something? Or should my app manage that it self?

- ØØ -

There are sevaral path function in System.IO namespace but I don't know if they accomodate Linux or not.

app.path == Application.StartupPath() :)

Yeah we should merge teh engines together but probably much later on nearer to completion time.

I'm struggling with framerates again, If we can get away with using small-medium rooms then we can keep the framerates as high as possible, drawing loads of textured triangles(2 per wallpart) is tough.

This is really cool.

How far have you got with your code?

Version 1 of the new file format *.ds

[Removed because of frustration]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoteMe

OK, sounds good, will read the texture names from the file, and then call that function. Will it return something like an ID or something? Or should my app manage that it self?

- ØØ -

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The renderer takes the indexes from the string's position in the array, the path in [0] will be texture 0 and so on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

How far have you got with your code?

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Not very far....I am still on the planning stage on many areas..:)..havn't started to atualy deside if BSP or PaintersAlgo is the best way to go yeat..:(...but I will, I will..:)


And yeah...I think small room and cooridors is the way to go. Nothing big and fancy.

Will test the app path stuff for linux and come back to you on that one..:)

- ØØ -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

The renderer takes the indexes from the string's position in the array, the path in [0] will be texture 0 and so on.

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OK, good, add it to the documentation... :eek: did he say documentation...no way..that is for sissies..:)


- ØØ -

W0o000t wireframe.

Shame we can't get 219 fps with textures :D

hehe..nice..:)...BTW your window doesn't seem to be 800*600 now...is it?

It is, but I mouse-resized it (after drawing) to make it a bit smaller on the forum (all my timings are at 800x600 buffer and form client area). Now the bottle-neck seems to be copying the bufer to the screen. Can't think of any way to make this faster without changing thread priorities.

OK, not bad...I guess I love you then...:)

I have finished the first part of the level loader. But there is still a lot more to do , like calculating the coordinates of the wall parts...hmmm....interesting..:)


- ØØ -

how exciting is this ? :D We PWN!

My desk just went 7" toward the roof, that is how exiting this is..:)...I still need to get my act togheter with this math stuff though..grrr...this is hard..:D

Just as a 2 cents towards the end of the day: this is how you concatinate a file name and the App.Path OS independendt..:)


StreamReader sr = new StreamReader(Application.StartupPath + Path.DirectorySeparatorChar + mapName);

I think we should try to find some original Doom textures for this. I have googled for it but they all seem to be wrapped up in Doom format *.WAD files (Where's All the Data?).

I don't fancy ripping lots of textures out of screenshots either. I'll post in chitchat about this.

OK...guess there is an extracter somewhere....havn't had the time too look yet..:)


BTW made to reconstruct the BSP tree in an applet.:)



Now, how many walls do you expect there to be in a map?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

I think we should try to find some original Doom textures for this. I have googled for it but they all seem to be wrapped up in Doom format *.WAD files (Where's All the Data?).

I don't fancy ripping lots of textures out of screenshots either. I'll post in chitchat about this.

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Post on an other forum:

Quote:

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Use Wintex 4.4 to extract DooM/DooM II sprites.

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I guess that is a windows tool....care to check it out?

- ØØ -

Answer on a second forum..:)

Quote:

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1) WinTex
2) DeePSea
3) XWE

WinTex and XWE are free, and the graphics and lump management featurea of DeePSea are free. (The map editing features of DeePSea are shareware, with a limit on the size of the map you can edit. The full registered version obviously has no limit on map size. Overall, DeePSea is very versatile, and well worth the registration fee.)

All three programs will allow you to extract DooM graphics and save them in .bmp format. AFAIK, WinTex and DeePSea will only save the images as 256 color images. XWE gives you the option to save as 8 bit or 24 bit images. It also allows you to view (if not manipulate) Quake graphic files. Give it a try, as it's quite similar to Wally.

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Third forum...:)


DEUTEX - http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/deutex/


:)

all those links are dead.

Distance Darkening code finished :D

The same 4 triangles as before but rendered as if they are different distances from the camera, the brightest one is right up near the camera, the next one is (0.3*scene depth) away, then (0.5*scene depth) away and the last very faint one is (0.8*scene depth) from the camera.

Anything beyond that will be rendered with a grey polygon instead of the texture. Although I have not yet written that decision code yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

all those links are dead.

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No way..what are you talking about...try this one...

http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/deute....0.bin.dos.zip


- ØØ -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

Distance Darkening code finished :D

The same 4 triangles as before but rendered as if they are different distances from the camera, the brightest one is right up near the camera, the next one is (0.3*scene depth) away, then (0.5*scene depth) away and the last very faint one is (0.8*scene depth) from the camera.

Anything beyond that will be rendered with a grey polygon instead of the texture. Although I have not yet written that decision code yet.

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??? Isn't this just one wall part and one floor part? Made up of 4 triangles? Looks like shadow..:)...

I'm only using those same polygons because I can't be arsed to hardcode any more coordinates. Just imagine the darkest triangle is hundreds of metres away.

Finished my LDPS algorithm (Long Distance Polygon Substitution). Instead of wasting time rendering far away textuers, just replace it with a polygon of similar brightness with regard to distance :D

You should ignore the formation of the triangles because its not relevant at the moment, just that from left-to-right they are near-to-far. By altering a threshold we can radically speed up or slowdown the framerate depending on how much detail we want.

Polygons draw a lot faster than textures...

Ahha..so it is left to right..ok..:)..goody..:)..yeah, looks good...I havn't had the time to work to much on this today...I can't get my MySQL server to resopond and need to fix it...but I will stay an hour extra at work today since we have a football mach after hours...so I should get some time to start on the BSP tree..:)


- ØØ -

I'm going to try to hardcode a short corridor in order to get this looking right.

Don't expect my function to calculate from World Space coordinates to Screen Space coordinates to be done any minute...:) I have at least no way to finnish that up before I go on my vacation in a week..:(


- ØØ -

It should have a much higher priority than the BSP. :)

If you say so...:)...done..:)....booo.....**** on you....will start on it in a few..:)


- ØØ -

You know it makes sense darling.

Need to find my math books then..:)...I can't remember this by hart at all...:(..I know I had it in my OpenGL book, but that one is left back in Norway..:(...W should have had Kedaman on the team, he live for stuff like this..:D


- ØØ -

OK, I just found out that we need a Vector4 class too...:(...grrrr...this is going to take for ever..:D...


and I got this info out of the master..:)

Quote:

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// THeory:
// From world to screen: X=x/z+screenwidth/2 and Y=y/z+screenheight/2
// But first from world to camera.
// coordinates = camera matrix * world coordinate
// Then 2D projection

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An other thing. If you look at the picture I have attached. Lets say the quad in the middle is the screen. And I tell you to draw a quad where two of the vertices is P7 and P8 on this picture. What will happen then? Can you do that? Or do you have to change the screen coordinates? And if so, will that be a big problem, like getting the right perspective?

Don't read this..I just have to post it here since I am in Windows now, and I need it in Linux tomorrow....:)
--------------------------
We need to transform from the world coordinates to the eye coordinates
The eye coordinate system is specified by:
View reference point (VRP)
(VRPx, VRPy, VRPz)
Direction of the axes: eye coordinate system
U = (ux, uy, uz)
V = (vx, vy, vz)
N = (nx, ny, nz)
---------------------------------
There are two steps in the transformation (in order)
-Translation
-Rotation
---------------------------------
Translate World Origin to VRP
http://vbforums.com/attachment.php?a...id=39158&stc=1

---------------------------------
Rotate World X, Y, Z to the Eye coordinate system u, v, n, also known as the View Reference Coordinate system
http://vbforums.com/attachment.php?a...id=39159&stc=1

---------------------------------
- Center of camera (x, y, z) : 3 parameters
- Direction of pointing (q,j) : 2 parameters
- Camera tilt (w) : 1 parameter
- Area of film (w, h) : 2 parameters
- Focus (f) : 1 parameter
----------------------------------
- Center of camera (x, y, z) : View Reference Point (VRP)
- Direction of pointing (q,j) : View Plane Normal (VPN)
- Camera tilt (w) : View Up (VUP)
- Area of film (w, h) : Aspect Ratio (w/h), Field of view (fov)
- Focus (f) : Will consider later
----------------------------------
Eye:
- View Reference Point (VRP)
- View Plane Normal (VPN)
- View Up (VUP)
http://vbforums.com/attachment.php?a...id=39160&stc=1
----------------------------------
Translate World Origin to VRP
Rotate World X, Y, Z to the Eye coordinate system, also known as the View Reference Coordinate system, VRC = (VUP ´ VPN, VUP, VPN), respectively:
http://vbforums.com/attachment.php?a...id=39161&stc=1
-----------------------------------
- (VRP) View Reference Point
- (VPN) View Plane Normal
- (VUP) View Up
- (VRC)
- (COP) Center of Projection
- (DOP) Direction of Projection
- (PRP)

Code for what I need to do....

http://colos1.fri.uni-lj.si/~sis/GRA...transform.html




- ØØ -

Offscreen coords are fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

Offscreen coords are fine.

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Didn't you all ready say that..or have I been drinking too much...

Sorry, just need this one too..:)


world to eye:
T =

Code:

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1 0 0 -POSx
0 1 0 -POSy
0 0 1 -POSz

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POS = Camera pos??????

w = normalize(COI-POS)
u = normalize(w (x) y); where y = 0,1,0
v = u (x) w
R=

Code:

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ux uy uz 0
vx vy vz 0
wx wy wz 0
0  0  0  1

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P' = R*T*P


OpenGL = http://capital2.capital.edu/faculty/...S377/notes.pdf


http://www.noteme.com/doomsharp/img/img008.jpg

- ØØ -

This looks tough. :eek:

I remember trying to transform world coordinates to screencoords once and failing miserably. :(

Shall I start to build the DrawObjects family?

DrawObject (base)
|-- Triangle (derived)
|-- WallPart (derived

I'll put the anticlockwise culling in my drawing routine too, I already have code for anti-clock checking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

This looks tough. :eek:

I remember trying to transform world coordinates to screencoords once and failing miserably. :(

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Yeah...I have a bit of a problem here too at the moment...I can't understand how to do the first step...the rest should be piece of cake, but been looking for hours to find out how to do the first step...:(


- ØØ -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wossname

Shall I start to build the DrawObjects family?

DrawObject (base)
|-- Triangle (derived)
|-- WallPart (derived

I'll put the anticlockwise culling in my drawing routine too, I already have code for anti-clock checking.

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The anti clock checking should be in the wallpart class. Here is my start of the wall part class (not far as you can see):

[Removed because of frustration]
- ØØ -

Here is the Vector class I have been building on (we might need a Vector4 class too):

[Removed because of frustration]

continue from last post/class:

[Removed because of frustration]

I have also started to make a Camera class. But I am not sure how to build up the vectors in it yet..and if they should be 3 or 4 long...hmmm.....

But we need some input though..:)...from keyboard and maybe mouse after a while....mouse can be a bit tricky since we only want to find out how much it has moved since last frame, not couse coordinates. And then for every frame you have to reset it to the middle of the screen, and maybe even hide the mouse pointer?


- ØØ -

First things first, leave the input until later, no point having mouse movement until we can draw something.

I'm putting the anticlock method as a member function of the TriangleClass, since a wallpart will be converted to 2 triangles. We need to be able to draw individual trianles too since both WallPart and Triangle both inherit from Primitive (my new name for DrawObject)

Are you allowed to use FTP at work? Do you use Fx? Can you add a plugin to it to use FTP?

Maybe we should have a working directory online, so we can just download the newest versions there all the time, so we don't do changes on the same file, and we no longer know what the new file is?


- ØØ -

Not allowed FTP and IE is compulsory. They don't even let us blink without orders signed in triplicate.

It is going to be a problem later on though, we's stil have to agree not to work on the project at the same time with the same version. We should keep our 2 halves separate for as long as possible and then maybe you give me a copy of your half (and vice versa) and we can agree not to alter each-other's code, only work on our own stuff.

I'll need your wallparts to store the corner points in this order...

(its the most efficient sequence for GDI+ to process, as it means only point D needs to be transformed.)

Sounds nice...:)...well, guess we are just going to make sure that we don't work on the same files without us knowing so..:)


I am workig on the Vector and Camera class now..just as you know..:)


- ØØ -

Do you think we should be making the wallparts and triangles draw themselves? At the moment I'm drawing them from the 'outside' by passing them to a DrawPrimitives(Primitive[]) method within the engine class.

Self-drawing would be the OOP thing to do but it would mean passing lots of information to each triangle and wallpart everytime and it would mean thy have to store more information internally so our memory usage would go up a lot.

What do you think, fast and dirty or slow and OOPy? (I like dirty myself but only because the framerates would be better). It would be a big job to recode the 'primitives' to draw themselves. Probably better to keep our current approach (which is more like DX's anyway) but I would like your opinion.

I can't see how that will be so much slower. You are not passing the infor to the triangle and wallpart every frame. The triangle and wallpaper class HOLDS all the information it needs to draw it self with? What do you mean? It even calculates it's own coordinates from world space to screen coordinates. To get a hold on that you need to take it OUT of the object....I can't see what you mean here....


- ØØ -

*thinks*

We are going to have to rethink this a bit. We need to separate what we mean by triangles and wallparts.

We'll need 2 versions for each, one in 3d and one in 2d screen coords.

The 3D primitives will stay put throughout the game but the 2D ones will have to be re-invented for each frame. Then I need to pass in at least 2 objects to each one.

I think the 3D wallpart should be able to create a 2d version of itself and then we can append that new object to this frame's Primitive[] array which will be looped through and drawn.

*thinking again*

The way IIIII see it.


We have wallparts. They are read in from a 2D array, then I will make a BSP tree out of them. All of them will every frame be translated into Screen coordinates. Then the BSP tree will deside what walls will stay, and what walls have to go. Then call the draw function on the remaining leaves in the BSP tree, because they all ready have the screen coordinates.


- ØØ -

Currently getting 10.5fps @ 800x600 drawing 40 triangles at varying distances (equivalent to 20 wallparts). Changing resolution up or down doesnt sem to have a huge impact on fps figures. We could probably run this fullscreen without too much hassle.

12 fps now, found a neat setting that stops a bunch of unneeded processing.

wow..that is not fast...hmmm.....well, at least it is better then nothing...but I really hope I can make my calculations really fast..:D


- ØØ -