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Perhaps this is the approach Winston Churchill should have taken? After all Hitler was not to blame. When facing a bully you have to stand up for yourself, otherwise you are simply an easy target.Quote:
Originally Posted by panagate
I was never a Bush supporter, but today a lot has changed, and I would imagine a lot of people in Britain have changed their minds on the "war against terror" myself included
Nonetheless it doesn't help. I'll still be going as it's my best mates wedding, but I can imagine the US border control are going to be even worse with incoming tourists :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Pipp
That's what we seem to be doing, is it working?Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Not really, terrorism has always been a problem in the UK. I remember when we lived in London and my parents told me about the risks of bombs. This is by no means trivial but it is not the worst act of of terrorism the UK as seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
The problem needs to be addressed but it seems that fighting fire with fire is not going to work, we must live our daily lives as best as normal and consider looking at the root causes of such cowardly, inconsiderate and atrocious acts.
It would be nearly impossible to protect every train, bus , taxi, road and street from such future events.
I just read that 100.000 persons in the UK actualy supporst (or think it can be justified) terrorist actions like this in the UK. Pretty scary....
True, true. The Omagh bomb comes to mind (okay technically it wasn't London but it was still far worse).Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
How else can they be fought? They will not stand up and say "Okay, we got issues with you let's talk about a comprimise"
That is one thing I will say about the IRA, they have finally gone to the talking table and things have improved, but that took a long time and trust is still not 100% between both parties.
There were a lot less people killed at Omagh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Today's death toll is currently at 33 plus.
As usual its the minority who are intent on causing death , pain and suffering. It is theses people who employ the services of vulnerable individuals, brainwashing them in to thinking the only way is to fight.
There are real issues which are behind these acts, real issues which do need to be addressed and I believe that addressing them wouldn't giving the terrorists the surrender flag but would instead show the world that we are listening.
I am hoping that G8 summit will continue regardless, that it will do the good it is meant to do and that London and everyone in the UK will get back to life as normal as quickly as possible. Because as mentioned by our own prime minister , the object of his trip to Scotland was to try and address some of the issues that give these sick people the fuel they need to employ terrorism, if we take the fuel away from the likes of extremists such as Bin Laden terrorism will inevitably die.
Didn't Blair say that he wanted to go to London now, and leave G8?
[Edit]Ohhh...he is going back again later on tonight..:)
[REMOVED BY MOD]
....
Fluffy kittens and candyfloss.
Can we please keep this discussion based on the facts and not opinions, especially where other religions are concerned.
This thread will be locked if there is anything that even straddles the line of racial hatred or extremism.
It's true, terror is never an issue until it strikes close to home.
I'm pretty sure the majority of UKs citizens will now have a different opinion, or will soon have a different opinion on even the war in Iraq (or what's left of it).
And this 'war' on terrorism can never be won through force. They grow up believing that they are right. And we grow up believing that we're right, and that they're minds have been twisted. The solution is... education. On both sides. And personally, I'd eliminate religion. That's remove a lot of todays conflicts and problems. Let other problems take center stage for a while. I'd be happier with that.
Talk about extremism. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Well said, Moderating Droid serial number: 332814419772164885CQuote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Less deaths yes but the effects were worse. Mostly because they used a nail bomb, and children were killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenW
Yes but acknowledging our own alledged wrongdoings AFTER a terrorist attach sets a very useful precedent for the terrorists, if they ever want us to jump through a hoop all they have to do is organise another atrocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Indeed
Don't children exist in London then? I don't think a dead person cares whether it was nails or ball bearings or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by valleysboy1978
Rush hour traffic rarely involves children.
A dead person doesn't care, but a live person does. If memory serves a few were struck with nails from the bomb and survived with horrific injuries.
A bomb is meant to kill
A nail bomb is meant to kill those in the immediate vicinity and severely injure those further away. Just trying to say that different bombs have different effects.
This is nothing new to England, we've had the IRA for the last 30 years. I was in Manchester when they toasted the shopping center many years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by mendhak
However, the IRA did used to give warning so that the area could be evacuated. Unlike the bombers today.
If I am right, this is the 1st suicide terrorist bombing that has ever occured on English soil...I think.
As for kids, I don't think many of the victims would have been children. The huge majority of people on public transport in central london are on their way to work, and the last I heard we had abolished sending children down mines for 20hrs a day.
My heart goes out to all the victims and their families of todays shocking events. I am still trying to get in touch with many friends that use those routes in London :(
woka
Im sorry guys. :(
Have all of our Brit Members reported in? :confused:
4 bombs 37 people killed. :eek:
Yes, CNN now says 37 killed and 700 injured.
This kind of acts almost happend everywhere. I wonder if heaven gets a threat from those terrorists.:D
seriously: my condolence to those family who lost their love ones in this scary event. :(
Just wanted to expres my sorrows and prayers for all, especially for any of our members that are affected either directly or
indirectly by these attacks.
As has been said many times when people like you express that opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Got a better suggestion?
Lets talk...Find out why they're doing this,...see what we can change about ourselves to get them to stop, ...
WHAA WHAA WHAA!!!
Look.
These Wackos are killing infidels!
You, I, any one who wasn't ever born into their religion are INFIDELS!!!
Thats why!
Its not Iraq. Thats their excuse to the world. or should I say thats their excuse to BHL's like you?
These wackos are beasts. Going around, from country to country, NOT fighting for liberation, but fighting for extermination.
:mad:
Whether you are used to it or not, the attacks still suck, especially for the people who were injured.
I was going to say something like: "Hang in there" or "We're thinking about you guys", but nothing sounds right.
Indeed it is the first suicide bombing as that was never the IRA's style, but London is certainly used to bombings. Especially proud at how quickly the London people have got back to their normal routine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wokawidget
Let me guess penagate. As these terrorists are human they have human rights and should be treated the same as you or I....but then you or I do not commit atrocities like this.
If a person takes a life, they give up any rights they had previously and should be hunted down and lock them away for life in the hardest prison in the world......or send them to Mars.
Good to see the Hoteliers didn't let a common decency get in the way of making a profit, doubling their prices for anyone who wanted/had to stay in the city.
Does anyone else think the bomb on the bus wasn't supposed to happen.All the train bombs seemed to eminate from Kings Cross. The bus passed Kings Cross. Perhaps that bomber missed his stop.
I was actually thinking along those lines last night. Although I must admit I thought the bus was running late so he was forced to explode the bomb on the bus.
I'm not defending the terrorists, far from it. I have nothing but contempt for people who act the way they do. However, it is not in the interests of Westerners to act the same way toward them, all that achieves is further hatred and violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
My suggestion has already been expressed in this thread. Find out why terrorrism is happening and at least try to eliminate the root cause. So far no-one has even tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
I was thinking the EXACT same thing when I heard that the passangers on the buss came from the Sub since the Sub couldn't go on anymore. So the person that put it on the bus must have most likely have been on the SUb first...Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEyes
Perhaps because the root cause cannot be eliminated? There will always be hatred against the western world and there will always be fanatics willing to go to extremes to attain their goalsQuote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Have you ever even bothered to find out why? Obviously not...
Didn't he used to be a mod here?Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
whats a BHL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
We are human. We love...and we hate. Nothing will ever change that. There will always be racism, and there will always be prejudice, and thus from this there will always be the odd few who take it too far. Eliminating the root cause? Impossible?
Nothing has changed at all in the last 2000 years. "terrorism" has been around for centuries...except back then they used pointed sticks. Only the technology has changed, thus making terrorism more damaging.
The problem we face now is that the people who are carrying out these sickening attacks are not from one organisation...they a splitter cells, who just follow the values of another terrorist organisation. That's what they suspect for the London bombing anyways. Going by this then it could have been 4 people who were really angry at the US and UK for obvious reasons, maybe last year some of their family died in a US bombing raid (I am not assuming anything here, or pointing my finger at any nationality in the slightest), who last year while getting drunk in their flat in London said "Hey, I know...why don't we get are own back and...!". A year down the line...BOOM.
You cannot fight an unknown enemy.
Woof
But if you can't fight an unknown enemy, then they havn't actualy made a statment either? We don't know who they are, we don't know why they did it? But I guess they did it for some reason. But if they don't make it a statment, why go to the bother of doing it, because no one can lissen to NULL/NOTHING/NILL. If all we get out of it is, "they are probably angry at us, because of something we don't know what is", what have the terrorists actualy done? How should that help them?
- ØØ -
My best mate was on TV last night and now he is on all the online papers.
He is the Ginger bloke with burns on his hands.
Do a news search for 'Chris Randall'
I spoke to his mum and he is in relatively high spirits.
He works for the Daily Mail and he said he is hoping for a bonus for the eye witness account :rolleyes:
Looks like by definition the terrorists aren't achieving their aim as people aren't terrified :afrog:
well there is that statement on that web site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660391.stm
Could find a suitable web site to post the link too :( All probably broke the AUP...D'oh!
Woof
[WOKA STRENUOUSLY STATES HE IS JOKING NOW]Quote:
Originally Posted by agmorgan
Damn he survived!
[/WOKA STRENUOUSLY STATES HE IS JOKING NOW]
Glad to hear he's OK. How close was he to the explosion?!
Apparently there was a security alter near Euston St. this morning, but it was a false alarm.
Woof
I haven't spoken to him yet so I am not sure which carriage he was in.
Perhaps it was a conspiracy to wipe out the ginger genes :D
There was also a bomb threat at Cardiff Central station yesterday afternoon which caused it to close from 4-5pm. Bit scary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wokawidget
That has all ready been posted, and I posted the original thread too. Hard to read though..:)
ummmh, you didn't read much of my post, did you?Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
Why are THEY doing it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
They think You are an infidel, and therefore deserve to die.
How can you eliminate the root cause?
In their eyes, isn't it obvious?
Why don't you try it first.
Go to your local police department, and tell them who you are, and why you're there.
Tell them that crime has been going on far longer than their current techniques should have allowed, if they were effective at all.
Tell them to stop chasing and apprehending crimanals, and especially stop using lethal force should they violently resist.
Tell them its high time to start talking with these criminals, find out why they rape, pillage, and murder.
And finally, tell the cops that they should give these thugs everything they ask for, just so long as they promise not to do it again.
:sick:
Just reported: Local citizen was responsible! Mohammad something or other. Sorry, I missed all of it, but it doesn't look good.
omg i'm froma small town called reddish which is just in stockport (On the outskirts of manchester) and we had an entire road shut down bomb squad busses stopped police the works.....
Many have asked why, if we are all that concerned about terrorism, why have'nt we gone after the IRA.
My answer, well, they''re goal is extremely internal, having a beef with their "mother" country, and they don't stray outside of their homeland.
I have no association with any terrorist group, let alone the IRA.
The only reason I bring this up is, well, the IRA, and all associated terrorist organizations in the UK, are EXTREMELY Patrriotic!
Now that their mother country's been invaded by foriegn terrorists, well, lets just say we're about to see a whole new layer of anti-terrorist activity.
Led BY the IRA!!!!
WHOOOWHAAA!
:thumb:
{IMHO}
Mother country, that's rich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
Man where do I start? This is wrong on so many levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
they''re goal is extremely internal, having a beef with their "mother" country, and they don't stray outside of their homeland.
A beef with their mother country? The IRA would consider themselves Irish not British hence the "I" in IRA. Their beef as they would see it is that the English still occupy part of Ireland and want them out. To put this in a ridiculous context, it's like saying the Iraqis have a beef with their monther country America.
the IRA, and all associated terrorist organizations in the UK, are EXTREMELY Patrriotic!
In a warped way yes but they are patriotic to Ireland not the UK
The only response you'll get from the IRA about the bombings, is that they are taking notes for the next time they decide to plant bombs.
"Mother Country"?? For a start Ireland and Britain are two entirely separate countries. (GB doesn't include Northern Ireland....the United Kingdom does)Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
Patriotic!?! They kill their own countrymen and innocent civilians. They are terrorists and are still the most deadly at it. What you have failed to point out is that the people of Northern Ireland are made up of Catholics and Protestants....and that the vast majority do not WANT to be part of Ireland, only to be able to govern themselves as Wales/Scotland currently do. The IRA has no right to press their beliefs on others.
That's the problem with the US, they get all misty-eyed when anything to do with the Irish comes up, even though they are not Irish. Forgetting that these terrororists make Al-Qaeda look like boy scouts. The IRA were the original and most deadly terrorist group and were simply cold-blooded killers
Tough Crowd!
England's Monarchy controlled Ireland from Henry VIII's time to somewhere around 1927, almost four centuries.
Hence some Irish, {for similar reasons, ditto Canadian, US people, ...} referring to england as the "mother" country. That sound about right?
I'll have to talk to this irish gent about your objections over his opinions.
BTW, if you can't accept "Patriotism", perhaps "Turf War" would be more precise?
:wave:
Wales and Scotland were "ruled" well before Henry VIII (around 1100AD i think) yet there is no WRA or SRA. I can hardly see how killing fellow Irish civilians is "patriotic" they are murderers killing men, women and children indiscrimantly
The Welsh, Scottish and Irish would never refer to England as the "mother" country simply because it is a separate country.
The facts:
England, Wales and Scotland make up Great Britain
England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland make up the United Kingdom
Thus the four nations make up what you yanks refer to as "England" which is frankly very insulting not only because I am proud to be Welsh, but I'm sure others in this forum are proud to be English.
We unite to be British when the occasion arises (Various sports, common goals, common threats)
Speaking for the Irish:No we don't. In fact I would go so far as to say that if I made such an comment I would get verbally abused by friends and an out and out beating by strangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Something Else
Partiotism could be defined as "when you love your country and are proud of it" with the IRA the country in question would be Ireland not England.
But what the IRA really love is power and money.
I hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pc_Madness
My condolences to all involved directly or indirectly.
"We shall never surrender"
Haven't heard from Bodwad for a while but he's from Nottingham I think.
I also would like to offer my sympathies to the families and friends of those that died at the hands of these cowards.
They will pay dearly for this....
They weren't even suicide bombers...
woka
Heard about that. I suppose the fact they were so close together suggests as much.
..But isn't the whole Al-Qaeda ethos about suicide bombings? Suggests these are "semi-believers".
It will however make it all the more satisfying when they catch up with the *******