Is immigration out of control?

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Originally Posted by szlamany

They have all, actually, been insiteful and full of personal experience.

You are simply batting at the edges and giving no good input - from what I can see.

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Okay - I've lived it. As far as I can tell, you haven't. Who can give better input than someone has lived it?

Batting at the edges and giving no good input? It's simple. There are jobs people aren't willing to do here. There are jobs that people are willing to do here who happen to be illegal immigrants. I don't think it gets much deeper than that. If Americans were willing to do the jobs it would be different. But, they aren't.

Tell me where I'm going wrong. My husband has been running this company successfully for ten years. What's your experience? Experience is the best educator that there is. Just like when a child puts there hand up to a hot stove and it burns, they won't do it again....

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Originally Posted by Malim

Okay - I've lived it. As far as I can tell, you haven't. Who can give better input than someone has lived it?

Batting at the edges and giving no good input? It's simple. There are jobs people aren't willing to do here. There are jobs that people are willing to do here who happen to be illegal immigrants. I don't think it gets much deeper than that. If from America were willing to do the jobs it would be different. But, they aren't.

Tell me where I'm going wrong. My husband has been running this company successfully for ten years. What's your experience? Experience is the best educator that there is. Just like when a child puts there hand up to a hot stove and it burns, they won't do it again....

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I see what your saying, but your missing my point. What would be the point of an american working a job, and only getting payed half of what they should because of the competition they have?(illegal immigrants)..You own a business right? If you had such strict competition, would you lower prices so much that your really not making anything?

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Originally Posted by System_Error

Doesn't it suck when someone younger than you actually knows more?

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No - it doesn't suck at all. When a 16 year old can make an intelligent argument without placing all of his intelligence in a Bill O'Reilly show, I don't have a problem at all admitting when I am wrong. I happen to know many teenagers who are smart and can formulate their own opinions from the information they get. And, I am more than happy to listen to their opinions.

But, you haven't made one bit of sense yet! You have only repeated something you watched on T.V.

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Originally Posted by Malim

Okay - I've lived it. As far as I can tell, you haven't. Who can give better input than someone has lived it?

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What is your definition of living it? I live in an area that has one of the highest immigrant population in the US?

Why do you think I know nothing of this, just because I'm 16, and I don't own a business?

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Originally Posted by Malim

No - it doesn't suck at all. When a 16 year old can make an intelligent argument without placing all of his intelligence in a Bill O'Reilly show, I don't have a problem at all admitting when I am wrong. I happen to know many teenagers who are smart and can formulate their own opinions from the information they get. And, I am more than happy to listen to their opinions.

But, you haven't made one bit of sense yet! You have only repeated something you watched on T.V.

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That show gave me the idea, I didn't just take everything from it. Personally, I think your the one not making any sense, but yet we both say that, so maybe none of us is making any sense.

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Originally Posted by Malim

You have only repeated something you watched on T.V.

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How could an individual remember all of those statistics and information from a TV show?

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Originally Posted by Malim

Okay - I've lived it. As far as I can tell, you haven't. Who can give better input than someone has lived it?

Batting at the edges and giving no good input? It's simple. There are jobs people aren't willing to do here. There are jobs that people are willing to do here who happen to be illegal immigrants. I don't think it gets much deeper than that. If Americans were willing to do the jobs it would be different. But, they aren't.

Tell me where I'm going wrong. My husband has been running this company successfully for ten years. What's your experience? Experience is the best educator that there is. Just like when a child puts there hand up to a hot stove and it burns, they won't do it again....

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Are you actually speaking to me here?

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Originally Posted by System_Error

What is your definition of living it? I live in an area that has one of the highest immigrant population in the US?

Why do you think I know nothing of this, just because I'm 16, and I don't own a business?

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Once again, I own my own business where Americans are not willing to do the job for a good pay that illegal immigrants will do.

Okay, that said, we still check for driver's license and social security cards because we want to comply with the law. However, we are somewhat suspicious that they may not be legitimate.

They are great workers, and we do not underpay them, or cut down the pay scale for them. We pay them well, because our success is tied to what they do for our business.

We report the wages that we pay to them to the IRS via 1099. At that point, it is up to the IRS to track them down, because it is not our fault that they have slipped through the immigration cracks especially when we have done what we can do to check for green card/citizenship etc.

Why are we ranting about illegal immigrants that come into this country to do what fat, lazy welfare recipients consider to be substandard work? (Reminder - we pay our staff very well for what they do.)

The focus should be, why do fat, lazy Americans insist on collecting welfare when there are perfectly good jobs (might not be the most appealling) for them to do. (And, I'm not talking about those who are on welfare legitemately, I'm talking about those who work the system.)

It's not that I think you know nothing of this. But, I have ten years of experience in a business that deals directly with this issue. Don't you think you should consider the experience of someone who has had real world interaction in the debates that you are having? And, not simply dismiss them as invalid, or in your words, crappy.

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Originally Posted by Malim

Yes - I posted what you said when I replied. Look at post 61 :)

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Why? I was backing you up to this young inexperienced mouth :)

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Originally Posted by Malim

But, I have ten years of experience in a business that deals directly with this issue. Don't you think you should consider the experience of someone who has had real world interaction in the debates that you are having? And, not simply dismiss them as invalid, or in your words, crappy.

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I do regard your arguments, but I still don't understand why you think I know nothing just because I don't own a business. Also, I was only trying to get at you with saying that your debates were crappy, although you do consitentely avoid my questions, as for the reason, I don't know.

Now, once again, I would like to know why living in one of the highest immagrational area's does not count as legitimately "living" it. And what is your definition of living it? Are you saying that only people owning businesses have valid arguments in a subject such as this?

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Why? I was backing you up to this young inexperienced mouth :)

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Wow, what a contributor...age is everything right? I can see your presenting your side very well.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

You run a business right? You probably get your sources from something that supports your side, with made up evidence, and invalid arguments. I don't blame you, if I ran a business, I would want the cheapest workers. See, you don't get both sides of the stories, just the parts that make you feel good.

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You really should be more cohesive in your arguments - from reading these posts you are loosing the debate.

I'm having fun, but I have to sign off...See you guys later.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Why? I was backing you up to this young inexperienced mouth :)

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Yes - I see that now. I'm sorry. I read your response that he took to validate his point. Which, now I see was taken out of context.

Thanks for watching my back!
:wave:

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Originally Posted by szlamany

You really should be more cohesive in your arguments - from reading these posts you are loosing the debate.

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Once again! What a powerfull post..By the way, you can't even spell losing right, so how can you constitute a win?

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Originally Posted by System_Error

I do regard your arguments, but I still don't understand why you think I know nothing just because I don't own a business. Also, I was only trying to get at you with saying that your debates were crappy, although you do consitentely avoid my questions, as for the reason, I don't know.

Now, once again, I would like to know why living in one of the highest immagrational area's does not count as legitimately "living" it. And what is your definition of living it? Are you saying that only people owning businesses have valid arguments in a subject such as this?

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My grandfather immigrated to the US when he was 16 - back in 1910 - by 1950 he owned his own shop in NYC - a house - two house actually - and left a legacy of "do it" in his grandchildren.

From what I can tell, in the USA, NYC is the biggest immigrational areas per square foot ever developed!

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Originally Posted by System_Error

Once again! What a powerfull post..By the way, you can't even spell losing right, so how can you constitute a win?

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Speeling and dislexxia are the ture signs of a genuius - loose the attidute - dude!

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Originally Posted by System_Error

Once again! What a powerfull post..By the way, you can't even spell losing right, so how can you constitute a win?

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Grow up Sweety System Error, everyone spells things wrong on the forums because in the end it's not that important.

What was that??? Did I hear your mother calling you to brush your teeth and go to bed?

BTW - powerfull is spelled powerful - or was that your attempt at sarcasm?

I believe that he made the first spelling error with "immagrational".

I get picked on by my customers for not spelling lose and loose properly - we were just joking about that in a meeting today - funny he would point it out.

BTW - I've had my own software house since 1986 - when I decided that giving my proprietary rights to the lizard boss was no way to make it in the world! I've got a 1000 square feet - at nearly $2000 a month - the rent and electric can put you out of business! I love owning my own business - have great feelings of respect for my customers - as do they for me.

My kitchen was built by (probably) illegal Brazil'ians - house cleaned by maybe illegal Brazil'ians - lawn cut by the son of a landscaper - probably not on the books - what are you supposed to do?

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Originally Posted by System_Error

I've noticed it over the years, but I just got through watching an episode of Bill O'Reilly on immigration. It was talking about how 80% of immigrants(mexicans) are illegal. 32 million illegal mexicans now live in the USA, and have more benifits than most citizens. I don't understand that...They are allowed more rights and privaleges than any other immigrants like germans, italians, etc.. One thing they said on that show, was that a mexican(in specific) could come over sea's illegally, and get more benifits such as health, than a war veteran returning from war.

Now, I believe diversity is good, but chaos is weakness. Are our politician not paying immigration enough attention?

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privaleges? Typing too fast were you?

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Originally Posted by szlamany

BTW - I've had my own software house since 1986 - when I decided that giving my proprietary rights to the lizard boss was no way to make it in the world! I've got a 1000 square feet - at nearly $2000 a month - the rent and electric can put you out of business! I love owning my own business - have great feelings of respect for my customers - as do they for me.

My kitchen was built by (probably) illegal Brazil'ians - house cleaned by maybe illegal Brazil'ians - lawn cut by the son of a landscaper - probably not on the books - what are you supposed to do?

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's funny how people hate illegal immigrant workers until they realize the savings they can make!

Wow - in business for yourself since 1986. Is it just you? It's impressive any time a business can stay open for 5+ years! Much less nearly 20!

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Originally Posted by szlamany

privaleges? Typing too fast were you?

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Too Shay!! : :afrog: :afrog: :afrog: :bigyello:

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Originally Posted by Malim

Wow - in business for yourself since 1986. Is it just you? It's impressive any time a business can stay open for 5+ years! Much less nearly 20!

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I had a partner in 1986 - he split in 1997 (best thing that could have happened - we had different work ethics).

So, now it's just me - I've got some HS student help (3 or so people) - trying to convert 20+ years of mainframe software to VB/MS SQL.

New clients see me as just a "small single person shop" - existing customers see the "business" value I add to their operations - hard to compete against the slick sales jobs given by the "big boys".

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Originally Posted by System_Error

How many american citizens can go over seas, rape a girl, and get away with it, without being sent back to your country?

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Plenty if the're in the military (Status of Forces Agreements)

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Originally Posted by Malim

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's funny how people hate illegal immigrant workers until they realize the savings they can make!

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What are you saying, you take advantage of them?

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Speeling and dislexxia are the ture signs of a genuius - loose the attidute - dude!

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lol sarcasm is a sign of frustration.


By the way, what attitude?

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Originally Posted by System_Error

lol sarcasm is a sign of frustration.


By the way, what attitude?

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I wouldn't call that sarcasm, as much as I would call it mocking!

Apparently there was lots of sarcasm being tossed about in all our threads!

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Originally Posted by System_Error

What are you saying, you take advantage of them?

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I believe she was pointing out the economic reality of immigration. No one said they like it here from what I can tell.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

What are you saying, you take advantage of them?

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Did you see how much we pay our immigrant workers? Trust me, they don't feel taken advantage of. We treat them with utmost respect, and they treat us with utmost respect. We recently moved, and my husband sold his business, but is still bound to be involved for a period of time. He insisted that the new business owner maintain their pay scale, and about a month after we sold the business the new owner began to cut pay. My husband is now helping his foreman set up his own landscaping business since the new owner is not sticking with the terms of the agreement. Does that sound like taking advantage of them?

What I was saying, like Szlamany pointed out, is that generally people say they oppose immigrant workers until they realize that they can get better work done for a cheaper wage, and then they close their eyes to whether it is right or wrong.

Wow. This thread blew up nice :wave:

System_Error, I'm not sure where you live and I'm too lazy to look up your profile. I'm in Seattle. Everyone here is either Asian or Mexican unless you run a 7-11 then you are Indian. Then there are a few white people scattered around near Microsoft and Boeing. I have a small story. There was a Burger King down the street that got busted for hiring Illegal Mexicans. The state gave the owner(A friend of a friend) a second shot and sent someone to oversee all of the new hiring they did. In 2 months they had to close down because they couldn't find enough people to cover the shifts. They Pay $11 an hour $15 for managers. not to shabby for scraping grease vats and wiping down tables. The shop was 1/2 a mile from the local High School and a Technical College. You'd think someone would need a job. The big problem is too many young people are too busy living off their parents or the state. The scenario you and Fox News put out is valid and does happen in some instances but it is not the norm. I thougt I heard you say you had to work. Congrats, It's good to hear a young person who has some self respect. You're in the minority these days.

To me it's a very complex problem with no clear solution. With the addition of illegal workers there is an environment created where there is an absence of competitive wages being offered by companies. Without the illegal workers companies would be force to up wages to bring in new hires thus probably passing on the increased monies paid into their products prices.

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Originally Posted by Malim

Did you see how much we pay our immigrant workers? Trust me, they don't feel taken advantage of. We treat them with utmost respect, and they treat us with utmost respect. We recently moved, and my husband sold his business, but is still bound to be involved for a period of time. He insisted that the new business owner maintain their pay scale, and about a month after we sold the business the new owner began to cut pay. My husband is now helping his foreman set up his own landscaping business since the new owner is not sticking with the terms of the agreement. Does that sound like taking advantage of them?

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No it doesn't, but in all seriousness, what areas are they employed in?
I think I might ask my uncle what he thinks about this, because he owns a biomedical engineering company, and I might get some good feedback from that..But I never see him.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

I wouldn't call that sarcasm, as much as I would call it mocking!

Apparently there was lots of sarcasm being tossed about in all our threads!

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sarcasm is mocking...

Sarcasm: the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

To me it's a very complex problem with no clear solution. With the addition of illegal workers there is an environment created where there is an absence of competitive wages being offered by companies. Without the illegal workers companies would be force to up wages to bring in new hires thus probably passing on the increased monies paid into their products prices.

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This is true, but the main purpose of this thread was to see if people thought immigration is getting out of control..but oh well.

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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

Wow. This thread blew up nice :wave:

System_Error, I'm not sure where you live and I'm too lazy to look up your profile. I'm in Seattle. Everyone here is either Asian or Mexican unless you run a 7-11 then you are Indian. Then there are a few white people scattered around near Microsoft and Boeing. I have a small story. There was a Burger King down the street that got busted for hiring Illegal Mexicans. The state gave the owner(A friend of a friend) a second shot and sent someone to oversee all of the new hiring they did. In 2 months they had to close down because they couldn't find enough people to cover the shifts. They Pay $11 an hour $15 for managers. not to shabby for scraping grease vats and wiping down tables. The shop was 1/2 a mile from the local High School and a Technical College. You'd think someone would need a job. The big problem is too many young people are too busy living off their parents or the state. The scenario you and Fox News put out is valid and does happen in some instances but it is not the norm. I thougt I heard you say you had to work. Congrats, It's good to hear a young person who has some self respect. You're in the minority these days.

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This thread isn't as hostile as it seems, we are just having some fun :wave:
Anyway, thank you for the nice input. Personally, I think 11$ an hour is ridiculous, and 15$ an hour for a manager is ridiculous also. I mean, that is of course if the standard of living is much higher than anywhere else. Around here, I think they pay about 7$ an hour, and maybe 9-10$ and hour for a manager. So I'm guessing the standard of living/the general level of prices are way beyond what they are here.

It is true that some people refuse to work at such a place. I don't know why though, it's like impossible to start out making 50k a year.

System error: Do you know where Mexico is? You've twice indicated that you thought Mexicans had to travel overseas to get here. As for the attitude, most of us were 16 once. Most of us were brilliant at that age. Most of us have realized that we were full of excrement at that age. You will, too. It isn't that you aren't smart when you are young, but everybodies world view starts to change pretty radically when they start paying their own bills....or maybe there is some other reason, but I have never met anybody from post-college on who thought they were much of anything as a teenager. Sucks, though.

I live in an area with a large Mexican community (and Bosnian/Croat, too). We hired a fair number of low-skilled manual labor sorts. I was always unhappy with what we were paying people, but I had no input, nor did my boss. One thing I found was that the immigrants (either group) were excellent workers. Older Americans were excellent as well, but hard to find. All the troubles we had were with Americans, and generally young to middle-aged Americans. It was hard to keep the younger folks sober enough to show up, while the older ones that we had trouble with tended to be trying to take advantage of the system. Since we were really scraping the grime off the bottom of the barrel, we didn't expect much, but the Mexicans were always pleasant and hard-working. We couldn't give them much but respect, food, and low-pay, but they sure appreciated that first item, which may have made up for the last item somewhat.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

This is true, but the main purpose of this thread was to see if people thought immigration is getting out of control..but oh well.

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Ok - I've got some information on legal methods of entering the country...

We have had an au-pair (actually two now) for the past couple of years.

They get a special visa - can stay for 13 months in the country. 12 months they work and live with you. They can only be paid $145 a week (for 45 hours work) - State Department rules. It's supposed to be a cultural exchange program - but it's really inexpensive child care.

The last month they can travel the country.

Our first attempt at getting one we actually got three that got visa-rejections by the US embassies in their home countries. One was 27 - too old in the opinion of the embassy to want to return to their country. One was too poor, with no father - also no good reason to return. Rejected from Brazil and Russia...

We ended up with one from Sweden (first one) - she got a boy friend here - did return to Sweden a few months ago, but I don't doubt she will marry him and return to the US as a citizen.

Another example - had a high school kid working for me last year - born in China - father came here to work for a large aerospace company (helicopter that is!). Father becomes citizen no problem - family as well. Not sure how that works (?)

If you work around Gatlinburg, you are doomed!

That area has the strongest, most distinctive, and most addictive accent in the US. I doubt a person could spend a year in that environment without being permanently imprinted with a strong southern drawl.

Some awesome caving not far north of there, though, and pretty good hiking, too.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

We have had an au-pair (actually two now) for the past couple of years.

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Now wait a minute! You have a pair au-pairs? A pair of pairs....so....there's like four of them....right? Is that like....an au-quad or something?

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Originally Posted by System_Error

This thread isn't as hostile as it seems, we are just having some fun :wave:
Anyway, thank you for the nice input. Personally, I think 11$ an hour is ridiculous, and 15$ an hour for a manager is ridiculous also. I mean, that is of course if the standard of living is much higher than anywhere else. Around here, I think they pay about 7$ an hour, and maybe 9-10$ and hour for a manager. So I'm guessing the standard of living/the general level of prices are way beyond what they are here.

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Any where on the West Coast is generally more expensive than the rest of the country not including NY/NJ. Cost of living here is pretty high. A 600 to 800sq ft apartment generally runs around 13-15 K a year to rent without utilities. $11 an hour roughly works out to 22K a year pre tax. That's most of your cash going to a roof over your head with just enough left over to eat.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Now wait a minute! You have a pair au-pairs? A pair of pairs....so....there's like four of them....right? Is that like....an au-quad or something?

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Actually not at the same time :bigyello:

And having someone live in your house is no easy experience - trust me!

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Originally Posted by System_Error

No it doesn't, but in all seriousness, what areas are they employed in?
I think I might ask my uncle what he thinks about this, because he owns a biomedical engineering company, and I might get some good feedback from that..But I never see him.

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What do you mean, what areas are they employed in?

If you ask your uncle what he thinks about this issue from the perspective of owning a biomedical engineering company, you won't get an apples to apples comparison. Biomedical engineering companies employ people with very specialized skills and aren't going to be likely to hire illegal immigrants.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

System error: Do you know where Mexico is? You've twice indicated that you thought Mexicans had to travel overseas to get here.

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Ok, I just now realized I said that..It was an accident, so please don't kill me.
:blush:

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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

Any where on the West Coast is generally more expensive than the rest of the country not including NY/NJ. Cost of living here is pretty high. A 600 to 800sq ft apartment generally runs around 13-15 K a year to rent without utilities. $11 an hour roughly works out to 22K a year pre tax. That's most of your cash going to a roof over your head with just enough left over to eat.

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Don't forget little CT - we live in Fairfield country - perpetually judged to be one of the most expensive locations in the country!

And cold and snowy - why don't I just move to San Diego!

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Originally Posted by Malim

What do you mean, what areas are they employed in?

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Special fry cook, dish washer, what ever? What are they employed in?

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Actually not at the same time :bigyello:

And having someone live in your house is no easy experience - trust me!

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Yeah, even if they pay rent. I have a friend who rents out a room or two in his house. He's only rented to friends so far, but it still seems like it would suck.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

Special fry cook, dish washer, what ever? What are they employed in?

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They cut grass. Ride lawn mowers, blow leaves, edge curbs, and trim hedges, etc.

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Originally Posted by szlamany

Don't forget little CT - we live in Fairfield country - perpetually judged to be one of the most expensive locations in the country!

And cold and snowy - why don't I just move to San Diego!

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Yeah Forgot about there. I couldn't see that there were actually people there under the 60 ft of snow. I grew up in the North East. I'm proud to say I haven't had to shovel snow for 8 years :thumb:

Bla haha. Don't move to San Diego Unless your fluent in Spanish :)

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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

Yeah Forgot about there. I couldn't see that there were actually people there under the 60 ft of snow. I grew up in the North East. I'm proud to say I haven't had to shovel snow for 8 years :thumb:

Bla haha. Don't move to San Diego Unless your fluent in Spanish :)

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At least it's overseas from Mexico...

Oops - there goes my sarcasm again - sorry System_Error...

(I grew up in Queens NY - sarcasm is a way of life for me...) :bigyello:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

If you work around Gatlinburg, you are doomed!

That area has the strongest, most distinctive, and most addictive accent in the US. I doubt a person could spend a year in that environment without being permanently imprinted with a strong southern drawl.

Some awesome caving not far north of there, though, and pretty good hiking, too.

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We just moved to Knoxville from Atlanta, and we are having a hard time getting used to the accents.

My husband was wearing an 84 Lumber shirt and this lady asked him "What time do youins open?" My husband said "Maam - I don't know where Ewings is." She gave him an ESAD look. But, he literally did not know what she meant!

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Originally Posted by szlamany

At least it's overseas from Mexico...

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now y'all stop making me laugh! I'm gonna get in trouble!

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Originally Posted by Malim

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now y'all stop making me laugh! I'm gonna get in trouble!

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Your not a very nice person.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

Your not a very nice person.

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I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! :cry: You were the one who said we were just having fun! :)

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Originally Posted by Malim

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! :cry: You were the one who said we were just having fun! :)

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I never said being a mean person wasn't a bad thing, I know I am.

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Originally Posted by System_Error

sarcasm is mocking...

Sarcasm: the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

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Yeah by me calling it mocking - that was being even more sarcastic!

Kind of the satirical form of sarcasm - I have all flavors available at my beck and call :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Malim

:lol: :lol: :lol:


We just moved to Knoxville from Atlanta, and we are having a hard time getting used to the accents.

My husband was wearing an 84 Lumber shirt and this lady asked him "What time do youins open?" My husband said "Maam - I don't know where Ewings is." She gave him an ESAD look. But, he literally did not know what she meant!

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I stopped in there (actually in Dollywood...shudder...) to get some groceries while on a spring break trip to the Smokies. My roommate was running around the aisles of the store laughing his ass off at what people were saying. Very friendly folks, but boy is that accent thick!

My way to combat the southern drawl is to watch GoodFellas every night after i get home from work.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I stopped in there (actually in Dollywood...shudder...) to get some groceries while on a spring break trip to the Smokies. My roommate was running around the aisles of the store laughing his ass off at what people were saying. Very friendly folks, but boy is that accent thick!

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Again, :lol: :lol: :lol: Especially, the part about Dollywood .... shudder...!!!!

We moved up here about two months ago and my five year old is picking the accent up! !!!!!!!!!!!SCREAM!!!!!!!!!

She has started calling me MaMa. But, not just MaMa. I mean MAaaAaaMaaaAaa. How many syllables can a two syllable word have????

I swear sometimes I feel like I'm in a remake of the movie Deliverance!

(I work in Knoxville, and it's not like that, but we live on a lake west of Knoxville.) It's absolutely gorgeous, and not that country on the lake, but the surrounding area is sooooo Southern! I never thought I'd move North and find more Southern people than in Georgia!

Dollywood that's funny. My girlfriend is itching to take me there. Im looking forward to hitting up that ski place they have over in Gattlinburg. www.obergatlinburg.com We took the lift up in the summertime. What a view!

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Originally Posted by Dilenger4

Dollywood that's funny. My girlfriend is itching to take me there. Im looking forward to hitting up that ski place they have over in Gattlinburg. www.obergatlinburg.com We took the lift up in the summertime. What a view!

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Great view, but you're from NJ, right? Skiing will not live up to your expectations if you ski in that area, or out west

However, if you are a good skier you can show everyone esle up! Bonus!

The water skiing is great! You should try that too! There are so many beautiful lakes, it's serenity!!!! Except for that Deliverance part!