Advertisement threads? What's next ?

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Originally posted by phpman
what does a popup ad selling a DELL have anything to do with VB? or in that case, anything in this forum.

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This forum is owned by Jupitermedia Corporation - and if they wish to use it as a tool for advertising, then it is their right to do so.

As such, ads have nothing to do with VB, but then again, think about Formula1 Racing Cards - what do they have to do with AMD or Cigarettes or any of the other products or brands that are plastered all over the cars.

Its just a way to advertise.

True...

But I think the driver would be pissed off if they put the DELL advert on his visor... or steering wheel!!!!

That's whats happened here... banner ad's are fine, as 90% of sites have them... but posting a thread dedicated to SPAM is just stupid and a very bad idea on JUPM's part.

I know you can't control it m8, but you have to agree, it's pretty damn feckin' annoying!

:mad: :mad:

Well actually the adverts in F1 are all over the car, the driver's overalls, and sometimes on the helmets aswell :)

Anyway yes I do agree I thought it was annoying - but its not actually in your face at all.
Its quite discreet if you ask me...

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Originally posted by plenderj
I deleted your thread because it had nothing to do with forum feedback, and was simply advertising a rival forum.

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So ? Are you afraid of competition ??? You better be, because this place begin to stink big time. What may happen in the nearest future is that the "core team" will leave to some place else and you will have hundreds of newbies asking each other questions that non of them knows the answers yet. And eventually they all will say: we cann't get decent answer, so we outta here.

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Originally posted by plenderj
I would, except it was authorized, so its a legitimate post.
But, what I would say, is that its not a banner or popup or anything intrusive.

There are sticky threads created all the time.
But because its an advert, there's now a big hulla-baloo about it :rolleyes:

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No, it's not big hulla-baloo but BIG INSULT for all members.

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Originally posted by McGenius
So ? Are you afraid of competition ??? You better be, because this place begin to stink big time. What may happen in the nearest future is that the "core team" will leave to some place else and you will have hundreds of newbies asking each other questions that non of them knows the answers yet. And eventually they all will say: we cann't get decent answer, so we outta here.

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The "core team" to which you refer already left when Karl Moore bought the site. We're coping just fine.

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Originally posted by McGenius
No, it's not big hulla-baloo but BIG INSULT for all members.

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How exactly is this an insult ?
A company that owns a website, is using that website to make money.
Membership to this forum is a privilege - not a right.

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Originally posted by McGenius
but BIG INSULT for all members.

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If you truly believe that, then you really need to get out more. Its just a forum, after all.

As for the adverts, they are annoying, but far less than popups or that crap that floats around the screen on some other sites.

McGenius: As you probably know, I didn't like the idea of the Ad posts either, but once I realized that they are here to stay I knew I had two choices: I could rant and rave pointlessly and make myself unhappy in the process or I could leave. You also of course have those same two choices and while I would not like to see you leave, if it would make you happier I think you should.

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Originally posted by plenderj
How exactly is this an insult ?
A company that owns a website, is using that website to make money.
Membership to this forum is a privilege - not a right.

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So, you can keep that privilege as I am saying GOODBUY.

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Originally posted by plenderj
The "core team" to which you refer already left when Karl Moore bought the site. We're coping just fine.

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And those that are still here are looking at the door as we convers.

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Originally posted by McGenius
So, you can keep that privilege as I am saying GOODBUY.

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Was that intentional??? :)

He, he, he ... ;-))
Of course not: Goodbye

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Originally posted by plenderj
I would, except it was authorized, so its a legitimate post.
But, what I would say, is that its not a banner or popup or anything intrusive.

There are sticky threads created all the time.
But because its an advert, there's now a big hulla-baloo about it :rolleyes:

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Because we can't advertise. WE, the forum mebers keep this place going, yet we can't advertise. Guess if we pay a fee....:rolleyes:

I mentined awhile back I would pay a reg fee to keep this place strictly VB, no outside ads. But nope, you guys decided to move to the BIG PLAYERS and screw the loyal crew who has been with this forum for years...

Sad days indeed...:rolleyes:

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Free Copy of Queue -- Your New Developer Magazine!

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Remember when stickies were about a specific forum topic ? The good ole days....;)

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Originally posted by plenderj
Membership to this forum is a privilege - not a right.

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It indeed is... BUT, it is also a privilege to this forum that many professionals are spending time with it, helping others with less knowledge. Or asking for help themselves. The forum exists by the activity of its members. Without members (or if you scare them all away), then this forum will be dead...
Just my two cents...

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Originally posted by riis
It indeed is... BUT, it is also a privilege to this forum that many professionals are spending time with it, helping others with less knowledge. Or asking for help themselves. The forum exists by the activity of its members. Without members (or if you scare them all away), then this forum will be dead...
Just my two cents...

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I liked that :D Eat that Jamie [:rolleyes: ]

Hey, I don't approve of the ad at all, but you don't need to target Jamie. He's just standing up for these forums, and having to do it alone because no one else will. Think about how much help people have gotten and will continue to get from this site. Even with that sticky there most people will still hang around. Hey maybe if the advertising guy sees this thread he'll delete it on his own.

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Originally posted by Mushroom Realm
He's just standing up for these forums, and having to do it alone because no one else will....

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???

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Originally posted by plenderj
I deleted your thread because it had nothing to do with forum feedback, and was simply advertising a rival forum.

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But they can spam them in the their signatures which show up wherever they post?? right...

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Originally posted by Mushroom Realm
Hey maybe if the advertising guy sees this thread he'll delete it on his own.

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fat chance :(

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Originally posted by plenderj
This forum is owned by Jupitermedia Corporation - and if they wish to use it as a tool for advertising, then it is their right to do so.

As such, ads have nothing to do with VB, but then again, think about Formula1 Racing Cards - what do they have to do with AMD or Cigarettes or any of the other products or brands that are plastered all over the cars.

Its just a way to advertise.

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you can't get me on that jamie. I hate racing and if the driver wants to drive a car that is plastered than fine I can see that. also those ads are going out to milions of people, so there is a big difference, tv or a forum where it is not allow to spam. trust me, I have been here longer than you () under a different username that never got restored) so I know of the change. I am not blaming you or the decisions you have to make. but deleteing a thread because it didn't have anything to do with the forum is the same as spamming if the forum doesn't allow it. it is just not right.

I see there is no point in arguing this people. it seems that JM has made there mind up so just drop it.

add another to the list of users leaving.

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Originally posted by riis
It indeed is... BUT, it is also a privilege to this forum that many professionals are spending time with it, helping others with less knowledge. Or asking for help themselves. The forum exists by the activity of its members. Without members (or if you scare them all away), then this forum will be dead...
Just my two cents...

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Yes that's true. But this isn't the first time the entire forum has gotten up in arms about something and threatened to leave.
When Karl Moore bought the site, a lot of users left.
But we still have a lot left.

I don't think a professional is going to mind an unobtrusive advert at the top of the forum.
The majority of sites visited by professionals, well the sites I visit anyway, are plastered in banner ads and popups.

I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill about this...

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Originally posted by Mushroom Realm
He's just standing up for these forums, and having to do it alone because no one else will.

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Well its all the mods that are standing up for the forum - I'm just the least eloquent when I'm in a mood ;)

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Originally posted by duc
But they can spam them in the their signatures which show up wherever they post?? right...


fat chance :(

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1) Yes people can put things in their signatures. That's their personal space of sorts.
They can put what they want in there, provided its not against the AUP and the signature doesn't end up too big or anything.

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Originally posted by plenderj
How exactly is this an insult ? ...

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It's simple young lady, they are using my very own hardware and software to make money (each time you click) without compensation. You may laugh now, but let me tell you: being a Wall Street finacial analyst and at the same time MS Developer for the last 15 years (at least) I know exactly what I'm saying. I've predicted 3 major companies (and many small businesses) here in NY metro to go out of business within 3 years and they all did within last then 2. Observing this nonsense very closely since JM took over - I'd say that this place will survive for maybe (!!!) 2 years but hopefully they will fall apart much sooner.
Those companies that blew their business had one thing incommon: they did not listen to what analysts were saying - they simply ignored every word. The same thing is going on here: if JM won't listen to the users - they are more likely to look for a new job.

My best wishes to you now.

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Originally posted by plenderj
Yes that's true. But this isn't the first time the entire forum has gotten up in arms about something and threatened to leave.
When Karl Moore bought the site, a lot of users left.
But we still have a lot left.

I don't think a professional is going to mind an unobtrusive advert at the top of the forum.
The majority of sites visited by professionals, well the sites I visit anyway, are plastered in banner ads and popups.

I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill about this...

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I don't mind ads either, when I'm looking for info, which is stored on corporate sites most of the time. But I do have a problem with sharing my knowledge to the community, while the site owner (Jupitermedia) wants to make profit from it by placing ads. And in this case not even banners (I didn't mind them that much, I just told Mozilla to block images from the ad servers :p), but the ads within the forum, as threads, at the very place where I and many others share our knowledge! How long will it take when you can't tell from the title anymore that it is an ad, but think it is a very interesting thread. IMHO serving ads as threads ie NOT DONE. :mad:
That's what McGenius meant with 'insult'.

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Originally posted by McGenius
they are using my very own hardware and software to make money (each time you click) without compensation.

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Then don't click on the ad. Its really quite that simple.

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Originally posted by riis
How long will it take when you can't tell from the title anymore that it is an ad, but think it is a very interesting thread.

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Okay in that scenario, yes, that would be very annoying.
But I can never see any more than one or two ads being used in such a manner.

Otherwise, quite rightly, users would get pissed off and leave...

We should all burn our girlfriends bras. Then blame JM when they ask where they went. I heard they did that back in the day and now women can vote and crap. Sounds like it might work?

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Originally posted by plenderj
Then don't click on the ad. Its really quite that simple.

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Not quite sure about what is it that you are defending: JM's rights for internet spam or your rights to defend them ??? Perhaps both ... Eh ?

JupiterMedia aren't spamming.
This is their forum. Its not mine, its not yours.

It belongs to JupiterMedia.
If they want to close it down or cover it in adverts - they have every right to do so.

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Originally posted by plenderj
JupiterMedia aren't spamming.
This is their forum. Its not mine, its not yours.

It belongs to JupiterMedia.
If they want to close it down or cover it in adverts - they have every right to do so.

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I agree plenderj. It is their forum. But...

It stop become OURS when Karl left. Our voices, our comments, our suggestions used to mean something.

WE, not JupiterMedia, ARE the forum.

This forum lost two of it's heavy hitters :

HACK - No posts since 11/28/2002

MEGATRON - No post since 11/05/2002

This used to be the best VB source on the Web. No it's the best place to see ads...

Stop kissing JM's ass, Jamie. YOU KNOW WE ARE RIGHT !!!

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Advertisement threads? What's next ?

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I believe they have weekly Private Message ads started in August. :sarcasm:

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Originally posted by The Hobo
I believe they have weekly Private Message ads started in August. :sarcasm:

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:D Good one.

Perhaps they will start emailing ads to our email address as well.... :p

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Originally posted by James Stanich
:D Good one.

Perhaps they will start emailing ads to our email address as well.... :p

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Telemarketers and door-to-door salesmen...make sure you don't list your AIM or ICQ, or you'll get ads there too! (hey, it rhymes!)

I love this place... :rolleyes:

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He's just standing up for these forums, and having to do it alone because no one else will.

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Jamie and Martin are doing a great job. They have my support.

Many of the people compaining and saying they are 'out of here', so there is no point in answering their question, because they've said that they already left..... ;)

By the way,
I fought to keep the sticky ad to a single ad (getting the Dell replaced). I fought to make sure the subject lines were indicative of the content. Jamie, Martin, and the other moderators helped to support this.

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How long will it take when you can't tell from the title anymore that it is an ad, but think it is a very interesting thread.

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This was the very, very issue I raised when the first sticky ad was posted. My comment to the "guy in charge" was that I was firmly of the opinion that the subject lines had to accurately show what the content was. No tricky subject lines. You won't need to complain if a 'trick' subject is created. I'll already be doing it. Everyone internally agreed that the subject lines would remain clear.

For those of you speaking doom, be aware that VBForums gets as many new members in a single month as some other sites have listed as their entire membership base. New people are coming to VBForums regularly.

Brad

< and now that I've posted, let the mud fly.... >

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This forum is owned by Jupitermedia Corporation - and if they wish to use it as a tool for advertising, then it is their right to do so.

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let's face it...Here is what Stupider..err JupiterMedia is saying

Their Posts!

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Free Copy of Queue -- Your New Developer Magazine!
AND
The Dell Deals Advertisement

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Our Warning!
Straight From the AUP

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By using these Forums, you agree to the following:

Hypcritical Act #1
You will not post advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations, all of which are inappropriate and prohibited in the Forums. You will not, furthermore, collect personal information about forum members for the purpose of sending them any such advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations through other means (email, messaging programs, etc.).


Hypocritical Act #2
You will not post messages that are clearly outside of the stated topic of any Forums nor disrupt a forum by deliberately posting repeated irrelevant messages or copies of identical messages (also known as "flooding").

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So basically, they don't care about the users here...they only care about money. If it doesn't make them money...then they won't allow it!

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they only care about money

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...sounds like every other business, and websites are a business especially this one.

Hey, Brad -- Did you happen to inform the higher-ups that these ads are voilating their own terms of service? Or does that not apply to them? (not trying to be sarcastic, just wondering)

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Originally posted by Mushroom Realm
...sounds like every other business

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I have to disagree there, man. I've run into quite a few businesses that were as concerned with providing quality service a they were making a profit.

Clearly JupiterMedia isn't one of them.

Call me crazy, but don't the usage policies apply to users? Are admins (the ones posting the ads) really considered users? If not, isn't this whole AUP argument a bit foolish?

Like hobo, no sarcasm intended, just wondering...

I ignore the advertisment threads myself.

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Originally posted by The Hobo
Hey, Brad -- Did you happen to inform the higher-ups that these ads are voilating their own terms of service? Or does that not apply to them? (not trying to be sarcastic, just wondering)

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I dont care for the ads.. and i would sign off on their removeal.. but i dont think it violates their own TOS.. because the TOS applies to members of the board.. not the owners.. and they are allowed to do whatever they want.. inside or outside the TOS.. they could just shut down the board one day for no reason...

I just come here to ask and answer questions.. so as long as THAT function still works on the site.. i wont complain too much.. the only thing that ever really bothered me was the GIANT banners that they have since fixed...

So the TOS only apply to the users? So admins can run around spamming, calling people asses and other vulgar names, etc? How do you expect your members to follow the rules if you don't?

I believe they should apply to everyone. And I still believe the thread ads are bull****.

kleinma : The point is is that Jupiter Media has forgotten what this place is all about - THE DAMN USERS OF THE FORUM !

As I mentioned, I would pay a annual fee to keep this place ad free. Does nayone else feel this strongly about it? What about the MODS ? (Jamie your comments?)

:mad:

Well i dont know if i would pay an annual fee for an ad free site. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by James Stanich
kleinma : The point is is that Jupiter Media has forgotten what this place is all about - THE DAMN USERS OF THE FORUM !

As I mentioned, I would pay a annual fee to keep this place ad free. Does nayone else feel this strongly about it? What about the MODS ? (Jamie your comments?)

:mad:

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you might pay.. someone others might pay.. hell i might even pay.. but the member base would drop drastically..

i do think they over advertise on this forum.. but i also just dont look at it... like i said as long as i can still ask and answer questions here... i can deal... (lol now lets see what crazy advertising they will come up with to make me change my mind)

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Originally posted by Dilenger4
Well i dont know if i would pay an annual fee for an ad free site. :rolleyes:

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So you think the knowledge given here wouldn't be worth a fee?

Ads are fine, but not everywhere you look...

BTW : Do you work for Microsoft ? :D

I'd be willing to pay a fee if it was a small one. It would likely be quite profitable to Jupiter to.

I don't know how many members there are so correct me if my numbers seem scewed. But I figure there are about 19000 active members based on the "members" section (I counted 29 per page and there are 1315 pages = 38000 or so members, not all active of course)

Say they only charge .50 cents a month, $6 a year. Most active members would probably be willing to pay that.

So lets say
19000 * $6 = $114000 a year
(not including any banner they may have at the top or bottom of the page, which most of us would be ok with)

Then I'd say new users would have to be given free use for a while to drag them in but I think as long as we kept the helpful content going, people would pay and stick around. After all most of the active users are not just kids playing around at home, most of us have real jobs and the answers we give and receive help us do our jobs better and faster, which can ultimately earn us more money (as long as we don't get laid off :p )

Just my thought...

I'm just a kid, but I'd be willing to pay $6 a year.

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Originally posted by brad jones
I fought to make sure the subject lines were indicative of the content.

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That makes it palatable for me ... I have to admit when I first saw it, I kinda jumped to the conclusion that it was going the way of the annoying email spams that trick you into opening a slow loading advertisement with a misleading subject line.

Nice to know it isnt headed in that direction ...

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Originally posted by Muddy
That makes it palatable for me ... I have to admit when I first saw it, I kinda jumped to the conclusion that it was going the way of the annoying email spams that trick you into opening a slow loading advertisement with a misleading subject line.

Nice to know it isnt headed in that direction ...

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Just wait...;)

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Originally posted by James Stanich
Just wait...;)

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I'm keeping my fingers crossed ;)

Perhaps TPTB could start Advertising via PM?
:p
-Lou

I guess it not important anymore :(

Well, as much as I was bitching about the ad, I seem to just not notice it anymore. Hope everyone else gets over it too. I don't really mind it that much, and think I went too far with arguing about it. It technically is their site, and they can do whatever they want with it.

They got to MushroomRealm... :eek:

Did they threaten your family? :(

That's funny but no threats were made. I'm not happy with it at all, but since theres really nothing I can do anyways I might as well just give in. Not to mention that they don't have to do anything at all.

Maybe we could threaten their families....;)