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I didn't support the war, but I support an early withdrawal even less. We went and did it, now we need to finish the job. If we leave now Iraq will either become as democratic as Iran, or will fall into ethnic civil war. Neither solution is good for anybody.
I am not saying back all out what is am saying is to remove some troops and to stop looking to much like a large invasion force.
Even if you dont actually back out you could at least show more signs to the people of Iraq that you are trying to get them their own government as quickly as you can. Plenty of Iraqis believe America is trying to run the place because all they see is American troops on their streets.
There is no sign of any structures for the new government either, i think even empty gestures like start building government offices in each town for counsils will reasure those that dont have tellys that something is happening. You have got rto win over the people by showing them signs (Even empty ones) that you are doing something for them. Too long without any signs of change and they will believe America is an occupying force. :) :) :)
just my thoughts anyway ;) ;) ;)
If anything we need more troops there to keep the order, prevent looting, and combat terrorism.Quote:
Originally posted by BodwadUK
I am not saying back all out what is am saying is to remove some troops and to stop looking to much like a large invasion force.
Even if you dont actually back out you could at least show more signs to the people of Iraq that you are trying to get them their own government as quickly as you can. Plenty of Iraqis believe America is trying to run the place because all they see is American troops on their streets.
There is no sign of any structures for the new government either, i think even empty gestures like start building government offices in each town for counsils will reasure those that dont have tellys that something is happening. You have got rto win over the people by showing them signs (Even empty ones) that you are doing something for them. Too long without any signs of change and they will believe America is an occupying force. :) :) :)
just my thoughts anyway ;) ;) ;)
We are an occupying force.
But that is what they are scared of and so more terrorism will rise up in their country if unwanted people are present.
That is an interesting theory. Criminals hate police, would removing police reduce crime? Would removing America reduce Terrorism? These questions are virtually impossible to answer.Quote:
Originally posted by BodwadUK
But that is what they are scared of and so more terrorism will rise up in their country if unwanted people are present.
It's hard to know how terrorists would respond if America left Iraq. So I think we shouldn't depend on their response. Besides the bigger problem right now is the state of Iraq. The country is a mess with no infrastructure and this problem needs to be dealt with.
Terrorists rise up because of hatred, hatred of troops in Iraq is caused by the presense of them and no noticable Iraqi presence. Maybe if we were to have an Iraqi presence of police and make our troops assist instead of run.
It needs food and water. The infastructure needs building up from the mess that saddam left it :( ;) :( :(
Thats a relatively simplistic view on the issue.Quote:
Originally posted by BodwadUK
Terrorists rise up because of hatred, hatred of troops in Iraq is caused by the presense of them and no noticable Iraqi presence. Maybe if we were to have an Iraqi presence of police and make our troops assist instead of run.
It needs food and water. The infastructure needs building up from the mess that saddam left it :( ;) :( :(
The mess resulting in a lack of public utilities is a result of removing the acting government. Now it is our job to put in place a new government and rebuild the country.
The whole terrorism issue is a side effect of invading. Terrorists only represent the extremists, not the majority. And even the majority has spent a lifetime listening to tv channels and radio stations promoting anti-american feelings.
I agree it is simplistic. The country must have a large income from oil trade so where did all the money go??? Saddam kept it for himself and let his people live in relative poverty.
The extremists do the most damage look at Sept 11th. something like 8 people killed thousands!!!!! In UK we have/had (Dont know where he is) an extremist priest from some religion who publicly told people to bomb us and ANY western country!!! the government couldnt send him packing becuase of 'Human Rights' and that just pisses me off because it just sounds like some ***** trying to make himself into a leader by promoting the murder of others. And we couldnt do anything about him!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Yes the extremists often do do most of the damage, I am just saying that their views don't necessarily reflect the overall feeling of Iraq.Quote:
Originally posted by BodwadUK
I agree it is simplistic. The country must have a large income from oil trade so where did all the money go??? Saddam kept it for himself and let his people live in relative poverty.
The extremists do the most damage look at Sept 11th. something like 8 people killed thousands!!!!! In UK we have/had (Dont know where he is) an extremist priest from some religion who publicly told people to bomb us and ANY western country!!! the government couldnt send him packing becuase of 'Human Rights' and that just pisses me off because it just sounds like some ***** trying to make himself into a leader by promoting the murder of others. And we couldnt do anything about him!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Just a thought, but the top one percent of America has most of the wealth, and one in five children here live in poverty. (I am not advacating, suggesting, or commenting on anything with this statement).
I agree :) :) :) . We are responsible for them and their protection now as well but they are more likely to start listening to extremists if they believe they have no say in their country or that America is stealing from them (oil, Goods, money etc)
They are seeing no return from the liberation and this will cause unrest. Its all about buttering them up wether it is expensive or not. A new town hall in towns etc shows democracy is on its way and will cool down the tension and replace it with excitement (For those who want a democracy)
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Poverty is everywhere but the American government tries to help those who are poor. Saddam didnt give a sh** and took what was rightfully his own peoples money. He had hordes of money and wealth that he was keeping while his people suffered. That is a very bad leader in deed!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
I do see your point though :) :) :) :)
Clearly we don't have to accomodate the extremists, we simply have to beat them.
I doubt Iraqis would care about a new town hall when some don't have running water or electricity.
Well ok then after the water and electricity is restored. My point is you must show that something is happening to benefit them and then they will help isolate the extremists.;) ;) ;)
Iraqis are already starting to embrace western culture. CNN had a nice article on how they are installing satelite TVs for the first time. Imagine going your whole life without having free media. :eek: :confused: :mad:
I Object
i dont have satelight its skank!!!!
5 Channels of joy :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
:D :D :D :D :D
And at the same time Shia spiritual leaders are flocking to Baghdad to establish an islamic bond with the clear intention of taking over the country and making it an Islamic state.
Loads of Shia in and around Baghdad are listening very keenly to what they're saying and it ain't in favour of the US. Shalabi is called "a man who's knowledge of Iraq and the suffering is only hearsay" and they don't trust the Iraqi National Congress one bit.
So I wouldn't say things are definately going the right way. In fact, if this was the coalition's post war plan it isn't really flying off the blocks, is it ?
Why cant people just accept differences and stop trying to force their beleifs onto others???
Hey i know lets make a strict country that prevents people to have free will!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Why not exists and accept thats what i think. Islamic state my arse!!!!!:( :( :( :(
I don't think the war had anything to do with weapons of mass distruction. I don't think it had anything to do with Saddam. The middle east is very important to the west because of it's oil, and this was obviously a factor, but here is my theory about why the war in Iraq took place:
The US is very concerned about the breakdown of relationships with Saudi Arabia. They are concerned that the feeble Saudi monarchy will soon be overthrown, and the relationship will become much worse. The war on Iraq was an excuse to gain control of a very strategic piece of land in the middle east.
Interesting articles:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...di_africa.html
http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2002/issue3/jv6n3a7.html
Hmmm....interesting couple of theories P. It a real tough subject this one. I do believe however that the war was NOT one of liberation - only a naive fool would swallow that one and smile.
What REALLY bugs me is the political spin - if i ignore it i get passive and stoopid. If i listen i actually get quite ANGRY - PISS off Blair you patter merchant, you patronizing, smug *******...SEE, SEE what i meAN. And that is not good for the health
I also quite funny to watch the popular media change subtley. Remember RAMBO helping out the 'Meester I love Mickey Mouse' Mujahideen. He would be back kickin' their arse these days i'll wager - is there truth in the runour that there was a dedication to the 'BRAVE FIGHTERS OF AFGHANISTAN' at the end? or is that urban myth...
OOPS too much talk, It's FRIDAY !!! must dash down for some Rizlas and Pringles now...NO WAIT...going out tonight...must be...able to...umm...converse with..um... friends...and...that
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND ONE AND ALL !!!
LOL, was thinking exactly the same! ;) Have a good'n!Quote:
Originally posted by powdir
must dash down for some Rizlas and Pringles now...NO WAIT...going out tonight...must be...able to...umm...converse with..um... friends...and...that