God would not have done this. The bible say that it is an abomination unto the Lord for a man to lay with another man like a woman. Would it be logical for God to cause homosexuality?
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God would not have done this. The bible say that it is an abomination unto the Lord for a man to lay with another man like a woman. Would it be logical for God to cause homosexuality?
*thwart! thwart-thwart!*
I see. Well then, maybe not.
::)
Tanic,
Nice one, you've brought some new life into a very boring conversation about carbon dating.
I don't think that god would have meant us not to kill literally, there's nothing in the bible about not eating meat, and we're pretty much commanded to kill things as sacrifices to god.
I was using the point to illustrate that a line had to be drawn somewhere of what you can kill and what you can't. and we may as well define that line as you can feel free to kill those who disobey the commandments.
You've raised a good point about Homosexuality though, the bible Expressly forbids Homosexuality
Levaticus 18:12 (I think, I don't have a bible to hand)
Thou Shalt not Lie With a Man As With a Woman, God Hates that.
Now surely nobody can argue that people have a choice whether to be Homosexual or not, And God created all men.
So why did god create Homosexuals if he hates them?
Back to an old point:
It is not actually thou shall not kill but do not murder. The only translation I have seen use kill is the King James and thats translated in middle english and kill may have been used somewhat differently back then, But I don't know for sure.
Homosexuals:
God did not create homosexuals, it is a choice. I have known many homosexuals and they would tell you it is a lifestyle choice. I have seen many change and become heterosexuals and never be tempted again. I highly doubt their brain was suddenly rewired when they did this. Most of what causes one to do this is psychological.
I just want to note that I have nothing against homosexuals and have friends that are homosexuals. I will say I don't agree with this choice, but it is your choice.
Kill/Murder
I personally don't think the whole Kill/Murder thing is a strong argument either way, I just brought it up again to illustrate why I brought it up in the first place.
Homosexuality.
I don't have anything against Homosexuality, I do have homosexual friends as well, and they all say it's not a choice, Either You Find Men Attractive or you dan't. It's not a choice you can make, you can choose to come out of the closet etc But you can't change what you are.
I have to agree with Sam on this one...
Your taste in people is no different than your taste in anything else. I hate to make such a crude analogy, but I love Ketchup. I'm obsessed with the stuff. I'll put it on anything I eat. Now, with psychological training, sure, I could learn to prefer mustard, and possibly even so much as hate ketchup. But as long as I can remember, I've loved it. It's a defining characteristic of me. Similarly, (well, kind of), Some people are simply attracted to people of their own sex. It's as simple as that. Sure, they CAN change, but it's not a choice they originally made. It just happened.
-tainc
Guess it'll just be one of those eternal questions of humanity that no one'll ever figure out. The answer, my friend, is blowin in the wind... o|' The answer is blowin' in the wind... o|'
(I promise, the musical notes look better in other fonts!)
jdavison
Just as the word "Christian" covers so many different kinds of people so does the word "Homosexual".Quote:
Homosexuals:
God did not create homosexuals, it is a choice. I have known many homosexuals and they would tell you it is a lifestyle choice. I have seen many change and become heterosexuals and never be tempted again. I highly doubt their brain was suddenly rewired when they did this. Most of what causes one to do this is psychological.
I just want to note that I have nothing against homosexuals and have friends that are homosexuals. I will say I don't agree with this choice, but it is your choice.
Not only does it cover those people who do make a personal choice... but it also covers those people who feel the same genetic desire and urge to be with a man as we do to be with a woman.
To simply say because you have friends who are one type of Homosexual is like me saying I met one Christian and therefor condemn anyone the same way... And you have certainly accused me of that before and rightly so I would have to say (thought I am still waiting to meet a Christian who didn't fit the mould of my perception).
Its convenient for you to believe things like Homosexuality is choice isn't it jdavison? Because that way you don't have to deal with the whole issue of why God would create people like that... instead you can just say "Its Free Will" and not have to upset the delicate balance inside you.
What about those people who steadfastly deny being Gay, who show their disgust and hatred for everything it entails and yet you can look at them and KNOW they are homosexual... and that at some point in their future even THEY realise the reality of themselves? They did not make a "choice".. in fact they purposely chose the OPPOSITE to fight it, and yet they were drawn to it not on a social or mental level... but on a fundamental genetic level.
Of course JD's going to say that it's choice, what else would you expect? It's not just 'convenient', it's a part of the teachings of the religion.
I have met many types of Christians, some of which you would never think were religious unless someone told you. There is certainly no mould for it. If you don't think you've met any different ones then maybe you just don't know when they are around you because you're looking for what you expect.
I heard of an experiment where some geneticists managed to genetically engineer gay fruit flies. Now that's an interesting outcome, but it's not enough to convince me absolutely that it's purely genetic.
To what extent do you believe behaviour is down to genetics?
Harry
I have gone over my philosophy on this before in another post ;)
I think we are made up of 3 parts... Body, Mind and Soul.
Each of us have different quantities of each of these parts and I think THAT is what determines our actions.
Body
This refers to genetics (nature). Those who have a higher body component to themselves than the other 2 tend to follow hereditary lines.
Mind
This refers to your upbringing (nurture). Those who have a higher mind component to themselves than the other 2 tend to follow what they have been taught growing up and what the environment around them exposed them to.
Soul
This refers to that which is neither of the 2, that which my personal opinion is the unique part about you. Those who have a soul component to themselves that his higher than the other 2 have the opportunity to overcome their upbringing and to stop their hereditary.
The reason I hold this philosophy is because I have spent the better part of 20 years watching human behaviour and noting that it appears to fit into these categories.
People who drink because their father was an alcoholic tend to be "body" people.... Religious people who believe simply because their parents told them are "mind" people, and those who even though growing up in the ghetto managed to rise above their "environment" are "soul" people.
If you apply this to those who are homosexual the theory still holds. If you are a body person then homosexuality would be a genetic marker for you and that lifestyle is NOT a choice but as natural to you as a hetrosexual finds being with a woman.
If you are a mind person then you have made a "choice" on what lifestyle you want, possibly as a result of your upbringing, experiences or whatever.
If you are a soul person then again its a "choice" but not for any reason other than you simply chose it.
There has always been a debate about nurture vs nature... they have shown identical twins seperated at birth that grow up doing the same things in life (indicating nature) and again in children from different parents growing up together who did the same thing (nurture)...
Its just my thoughts and despite what you may think I have probably seen more people in my life than most others on here having worked in an industry that brought me into contact with 2000 people every day for nearly 15 years.
So far this theory has worked well in all cases that I have come across... so until it breaks I will stick with it
Oh god, this
I'm not going to argue with you on it this time, because the argument went nowhere last time and I don't think it will this time round. but essentially I see your Soul part as a product of the complicated way in which nature and nurture react with each other.
If you look at Cancer and see a cell reproducing like crazy you could say that this is a product of your genetics producing a faulty cell or you could say it is a product of the cells environment that has caused it to do this. Because it's so complicated and can be attributed to both of them you could see this as a third thing where the cell has a mind of its own and decides to reproduce.
while I can see that the soul component is a good way of modelling the human psyche I still maintain that anything you attribute to the Soul can be seen as a product of the complex way genetics and environment react.
That is a valid viewpoint Sam.
It does still indicate that there are 2 sides.... one genetic and the other environment.
This would explain the 2 kinds of "Homosexuals" rather than jdavison's limited understanding of only a single type.
Not only that.... but in all honestly, do you think a religious person would get deep enough into homosexual circles to even bother understanding them????
Well no I wouldn't actually expect anyone to do that unless they were undertaking some kind of personal study of homosexuals. I mean, why should he? I suppose you have then have you?
Unless you are homosexual yourself, I do not believe that you can know what makes somebody homosexual, or how many different kinds of homosexual there are.
And if you had met 2000 people a day for 15 years, that's an average of one new person every 43.2 seconds (not inluding sleep). Over 15 years (at 365.25 days a year) that's 10,957,500 people. Clearly, I find myself doubting this figure, and I expect others will too. Yes, I'm being pedantic ;)
Harry
One of the night clubs I like going to locally just happens to be a Gay and Lesbian club so I have had many conversations from different people... certainly far more than jdavison would have so I already know there is a difference.
As for the quote of 2000 people a day, I worked in a Newsagency... started work at 6am and got home at about 6pm... I watched people walk in and out of that place like ants on an ant hill. Of course when I said "for 15 years" I didn't mean every single day during that time but still it was "2000 people a day" and it was for about 3/4 of the year for 15 years.
I have the till receipts to prove it ;)
Well I suspect that most of them probably came in more than once. And you didn't exactly get to know them (not in 40 seconds at least ;))