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What going on if someone kill me ? He take 1/4 of my money? or something like that ? If we loss money we should have a "bank" to store stuff.
I do not see where is the fun without any level to reach. You know the best Zelda 8 bits ( Nintendo ) We have like 9 level to finish the game. Well we need something like that to keep the game attracting because after sometime the game will be very simple and will stop play the game. I think we should talk about what the game will be.
Yes, indeed. We should split up in 2 teams, one that develops the technical background (engines and stuff) and one that cares about a story, gameplay and game rules (properties, skills, objects and such). Of course we have to work side by side and the programmers also want to give their ideas for the game - but just to have someone dedicated for this stuff.Quote:
I think we should talk about what the game will be.
Sure we need "levels" but thats nothing for long time. It's like in UO, when you first enter the game there's so much to explore. And after some time it's just like normal and you don't care anymore. Later in the game people only do PvP or talk to each other as in a chat ... I don't think we can do anything against that, but a good thing is to extend the world step by step, create new monsters for the advanced players and new weapons and probably new skills for the grandmasters.Quote:
I do not see where is the fun without any level to reach. [...]
How are we gonna decide whose on what team?
I think all of us atleast have some skill in programming...
Maybe we should also alternate what the teams do,
Like one week Team one does programming and the next
they work on the backstory/rules
And then they would start off where the other team left off
-Andrew
Anyone ever tried Ragnarok Online? It seems like the basic concept of what were aiming at and it's free too.
http://www.ragnarokonline.com/en/r_main.htm
I played it a little didn't really do much, but it's got good graphics i would say and works pretty well.
Just thought i would share that with you guys :p
When do we start again or are we still in talking stages?:D
I just found this post, but I would like to get involed. I have limited direct x programing skills.
One idea for the levels, has anyone played Diablo 2? If not, he's how they work levels: Anyone may enter any area of the game they wish, aslong as they have completed certin quests. For example, you may travel any of act 1 (the first 'level') that you wish, but to move to act 2, you must kill a certin monster (logicly called an act boss). This may work for this game too. You may also want to include difficulties, so once you complete all the acts, you can keep playing in harder areas. In diablo 2, you must complete act 5 (the last act) to advance from normal to nightmare, then you must again complete act 5 to move to hell. Once you complete act 5 normal, you may also play in "hard core" mode, where you only get one life, instead of infinte.
I don't know for sure how much of this would be useful, but it would work for the basic level idea, although you may need to make it so that you save the characters (if it isn't already planned). I don't feel like reading the 90+ posts already in this thread.
Ew, not Diablows 2 =). I have a personal bias against it, but that doesnt change the fact that the game was not worth the time spent on it.
If the game is going to be massivly multiplayer, you dont want people getting some kind of message saying that they cant go someplace because of their level, or they didnt kill a boss, or what have you. Its an alternate reality. If you dont want to fight the Level 85 Death Doom Guard of Hell, you go around, or decide to come back at level 86.
There was a really simple reason for Diablo I's immense success. It was a simple game. You COULD sit down for 5 minutes and play a while. There was no complicated storyline that you had to follow, or anything like that. The only improvement Diablo 2 made over that was the addition of the Run feature. The addition of the over reaching plot line took all of the mindless fun away. They also dumbed the game down, so it wasnt scary at all (you could play Diablo in the dark, and be scared). I will admit, that I lost a lot of sleep with Diablo 2, but, to be perfectly honest, after beating it 6 times, it got boring. The Stress Test was more fun, because of the lack of story line.
I dont want to turn this thread into a Diablo 2 argument, so I wont reply to any further posts on the subject =). Just read the second paragraph =).
Z.
I tend to agree that Diablo 2 gets boring after a while.
One quick question, what type of game will this be? I know it will be Massily Mutiplayer, but will it be an RPG or a Shoot 'em up type of game (such as 1st person shooter).
If it is an RPG, then you need an ultimite goal. This is such as Diablo 2.
If it is a shoot 'em up game, then there is no need for differnt levels (just have a big area with limited boundryes.) This is such as Tribes.
As for the scripting, you would really need to allow it (as it makes for a much funner game) but it would be limited (to avoid cheating). Look at Tribes, if you have the knowladge, you can script rotines to allow for much easier player, or you can just go download someone elses, then you get the ease, with out the difficult programming (as there is no listing of commands).
I also feel that there should be live battles (more then 1-on-1). This would mean anything up to maxplayer-on-1 or 1-on-5, or maxplayer-on-50, ect. (such as diablo 2 does it). This would make the game harder, but as stated below, would make it harder for people with bad connections.
As for anti-PVP:
1) place a minium level cap for people to go hostile agaist a player (such as the lower level player much be level 10, unless the lower level player goes hostile to any player in the game (above lvl 10) first. This could be done with steps (such as lvl 1 to 10, lvl 10 to 20, lvl 20 to 30, lvl 30 to 50, lvl 50 to 70, lvl 70 to 100, ect). The example uses the steps lvl 1-10 and lvl 10+.
2) Possibly have/allow differnt types of servers (such as one that has hostility, one that doesn't, and one that it is pure PVP possibly allow bidding on who will win?)
Just for your knowladge, I know how to do the following:
1) Very good VB programming
2) Limmited C programming (and C++)
3) Good HTML
4) Good/V.good use of Photoshop and Image Ready. (Can't draw though :()
5) OK pearl (web stuff for those who don't know)
A very poor example of what I can do is shown on the Planet Wars webpage, and in the game itself (link below). With Planet Wars, I am working on converting the drawing rotine to C++.
This is becoming a big ass post. And, if I was smart, I should have made this a bunch of differnt posts. :(
Thanks for your input, Gaming_World!
Indeed, this is another point why we couldn't make people disappearing from the world and enter a battle area when they're fighting.Quote:
I also feel that there should be live battles (more then 1-on-1).
That's ok, something like the <young> status in any online game you can find.Quote:
place a minium level cap
...or different settings for each level. Since our engine will be very flexible we can make towns where you can't fight, land where you can fight monsters, special areas where you can fight players and so on... but of course we could make different servers to split up the bunch.. why not.Quote:
Possibly have/allow differnt types of servers
btw: You want to join us, Gaming_World?
Yes
that's exactly what happens with the Ragnarok game i posted about. There is a city town area for buying selling and trading and then desert areas to fight NPC's. But we could also have players fight each other.!:DQuote:
Originally posted by Fox
...or different settings for each level. Since our engine will be very flexible we can make towns where you can't fight, land where you can fight monsters, special areas where you can fight players and so on... but of course we could make different servers to split up the bunch.. why not.
If its an MMORPG, you cant have an ultimate goal. Take a look at EQ, for instance. There is no story, and no ultimate goal, and yet it ruins peoples lives because they cant stop playing. If you had an ultimate goal, you would have to reset the game world when it is accomplished. It is a viable option, of course, (I would have like to see it in EQ).
Z.
When are we going to start... (not to be pushy or anything :))
-Andrew
my thoughts exactly. We can plan more detail into features as we get to them :)
You have to have most of the ideas planned out at the beginning. If you don't, you may end up spending weeks or months adding in a few new features.
As for the ultimite goal, just have a reset time. Then, when a major event happens (such as when a main monster is killed), you respawn the monster after the time passes.
The thing is, I think that it has been decided that we will split into two groups, one for programming and then one to come with game rules, characters, levels, and the basics like that...
-Andrew
I know, but you need to know all of the major things that will be in the game. This is such as the characters, levels, a good system of rules (to make it easier to impletement them later, possibly using scripts), any thing to get to certin areas, and other stuff like that.
We will have some choice of heros ? or all Zelda will lokok that same ?
Quote from site 1:Well about the body, we should probably allow people to select from 2 (male/female) or more models..Quote:
Like in other online games people can chose their own clothes, buy them in-game respectively.
We should start to have a "paper" who will contain all idea.
I would do this, with perhaps 3 models per gender, but also allow several dozen (if your artists are up to it) model skins, to allow some real customizationQuote:
Originally posted by Fox
Well about the body, we should probably allow people to select from 2 (male/female) or more models..
Z.
I would say that that would be a neat idea.
Same here...
I like the idea to have many choice of heros and maybe with some different abilities.
Hm we coul make several races to split up the ability groups.. for example Orks may have special war attacks while elves may have special magics
I would have to agree there too. Although you would need more then 2 classes, and a bunch of differnt skins for each.
Possibly have 5 or 6 classes, each with the choice between male and female, and each of those with a bunch of differnt skins. Although this would take a lot of graphics, and time.
i would agree with this!Quote:
Originally posted by DaoK
We should start to have a "paper" who will contain all idea.
who wants this task.. we need to get this all on paper organized.
i would try, but i'm not sure of the most logical way to organize this stuff
That paper can be a Word document who will contain all stuff we will add to the project, like that we will be more organized.
I can/will do it. I can only do it between around 4:30 to 10:00 or 11:00 PM my time, beacuse of school. My time is PST (GMT -8).
It's enought time lol It's not a full time job ;)
Ideas/Dislikes
First off I have to say this doing some levels and when finsih the last one, game over, is not a good idea. This is not something that belongs in soemthing of this scope. It should be a persistant world.
Here is how I envision it. It should be a world open enough where the players have plenty of leway for role playing and it to have an impact on the world. As administrators we could introduce story lines(quests) into the game beyond those that are always there that can have an impact on everything. Perhaps it is in the form of finding a lost artifact..or even a giant dragon so powerful, it may take half the server to get together and kill it. It should all in all be a very role playing orientated world with enough to do for those not into the role playing aspect. Players can take on the position of emperor, or pehaps have jobs running a shop. Things like this would make an interesting game. I have tried many online rpgs, and have found they only cater to adventurer or just the role player..not both. For the adventurer, have plenty of places to find baddies to kill and level up. For the role player, there is the stuff I outlined above.
Items:
I hve found players love items. Magical/unique/whatever.. The game should have lots of items such as weapons, armor, etc. Perhaps unique ones like Diabo(except in the fact there can only really be 1 in this game). You need to have a wide variety of items to chooe from and find. This is a good motive for adventurers and the role player alike as there could be quests that admins can introduce to find some unique weapon. Of course there could be fighting over it, but that just gives more to do for the role players as they can role play it out.
General ideas:
Players can get married.
Players can become kings/mayor/police/queen/ etc.
Have zones called outlaw zones. These areas can have bigger and badder enemies with better treasures and rewards but since these areas are not controlled by the 'king' they are a free zone to player killers. This eliminates the problem of high level players roaming towns and spawn points waiting for low levels and newbies to kill. Make it quite clear to players that if you cant take it , dont enter those areas. But of course still leave them the option of going in.
Handling experience points from killing baddies:
This is a big quirk of mine. I have found it a problem in many online rpgs that it is often that a high level character will take a friend to high level enemies, weaken that enemy down to one more hit, then let his friend kill it getting high amounts of exp and leveling real fast..I as do many other beleive this to be unfair to others. As an idea of handling this, let xp be awarded only based on percentage of damage done. Like whoemwver did 10% of the damage, will only 10% of the xp while the guy that did 90% will receive 90% of the exp payout.
these are all just ideas I have put together from my own personal quirks about the many online rpgs I have tried.
A question that needs to be raised. What sould we write this in? If VB(which is the only thing I know well enough) should we do it in .NET or just stick to 6? DirectX 8 or wait for 9?
Or should we do it in another language perhaps one that was made specifically for games like DarkBasic?
I figured a good way to structure levels/the map. The world will be split up into chunks called levels. You will have the main world file which can be just a simple text file(XML would be good) and each level can be a binary/bit representatino of the graphics or whatever. In the world file, each 'level' can be presented as a node in an xml document. And for each level, give a norh, south, east, and west node or attribute. In each of those, you give the name of the level that will load when the reach the end of the current level they are on in that direction..for an example of how this would look
i think the above would be an easy and efficient way to handle level changingCode:<World>
<Level id="ZeldaCity01" north="ZeldaCity02" south="ZeldaCity03" east="ZeldaCity04" west="ZeldaCity05"/>
</World>
As far as what a level file would look like..It could be something this
NSWE would be the map edge direction, while g would mean a grass tile, t a tree tile, and h a house tile.Code:NNNNNNNNNNNN
WgggggggggggE
WgggggtgggggE
WgggggttgggggE
WggggghhhgggE
SSSSSSSSSSSSSS
just spewing forth ideas as they come to me.
Even more innovative ideas. Players when they create a character can choose a kingdom to be a part of. Ther can be multiple kingdoms. This could lead to interesting things like wars between kingdoms, land disputes/trading between kingdoms. I personally think this would be something playes would absolutly love. This could go along with bounderies of where it is safe to be or go if you don not want to be player killed. Perhaps, along with lawless zones, you are safe in you own kingdoms owned land. But if you enter another kingdoms territory, you can and can be player killed.
And as stated about the land wars/disputes/trades thee kingdom territories can change. Going along with my pevious post, you could add another attribute to that XML file to say what kingdom owns that level.
This adds a new and exciting level of play that I dont think has ever really been done before.
Yet even more brainstorming.
May I leave this project to you guys? :)
I'm sorry all my free time is gone now since I'm working on a big project *sigh* ... well, I can still try to help you coding so if there's any question just ask.
A good idea to develop this thing would be a Code thread. For example the thread starter posts this:
And the next one replaces the ? up by code:Code:'Sound module
Public Sub PlaySound( iFileName as String, iLoop as Boolean )
'?
End Sub
Another guy sees a mistake or has a better idea and posts:Code:'Sound module
Public Sub PlaySound( iFileName as String, iLoop as Boolean )
SetChannelFile SoundPath & iFileName, 0
PlayChannel iChannel, IIf(iLoop = True, 1, 0)
End Sub
and so on..Code:'Sound module
Public Sub PlaySound( iFileName as String, iLoop as Boolean )
Static Channel as Long
Channel = Channel + 1
If Channel > MaxChannels Then: Channel = 0
SetChannelFile SoundPath & iFileName, Channel
PlayChannel Channel, IIf(iLoop = True, 1, 0)
End Sub
(of course you'd post the whole module there)
Like this everyone sees all code of the project and can give his ideas to the group ..
DX 9 wont be released until November, if MS continues to follow their schedule. Darkbasic probably wouldnt be able to handle something of this magnitude.
Z.
I don't have acess to VB.net. I could also do some of the programming in C, as I have limited knowladge of that (this would be to quicken up the drawing). As I said before, I have good knowladge in VB.
I would think we could accomplish it with VB6 and DX8 right? I think we all have a somewhat good knowledge of VB since were at a VB forum ;)
Anyone taking the leader role, assuming Fox is taking a less active role?
:)
What kind of system will we be using for any skills that are advalible in the game?
What will be the healing system? Eating food, drinking potions, ect.?
I wouldn't mind taking a leading role. As I stated before, I can only be reading the formuals in the late afternoon and evening (GMT-8) weekdays. On weekends, for the most part, I will be able to check commonly.
I would tend to agree that it can be done in VB and DX8, although it will be slow. I did a game, Planet Wars, in VB and bitblt that runs at 2 FPS at 1280x1024. I am working on converting the drawing to C++, which I exatimate, will bring it up to 12 FPS. This is also on a P3 1GHZ. And the game is VERY simple, download it if you like.
I have also began the paper, and heres what I have found in this thread:
Customize clothing (buy?)
Multiple Classes
Multiple Skins
Multiple Genders (M/F)
Many different Items and Item Types and Item Classes
Truly unique items (1/server)
Most areas closed to PVP combat
Areas with harder enemies and better drops open to PVP
EXP amount based on damage done (if one player does 90% damage, that player gets 90% of the exp, and the like)
Different Kingdoms (may cause wars between players, and the like)
May be part of different kingdoms
If you know of anything I missed, let me know.
Sad to see you go fox...
Maybe when your other project is done we can enjoy your return...
But anyways, I think whoever was here first to join after fox or whoever has the most knowledge of VB and DX should be leader... (Well, both those rule me out lol, I dont have a problem with you haveing the leader role Gaming_World)
-Andrew
P.S. I was wondering how well VB5 and VB6 work together, Cause I only got VB5, and it seems everyone else has VB6
I know almost all the code is the same (you just need to change a tag in the project file). I belive that MS added new functions and the such to VB6 (such as split).
Gaming_World as leader is fine with me. I think healing should be by potions and food. Possibly a sleep or nap at an Inn in the game would also boost Health?
As for skills system I am unsure of what you mean by that?
:)
I've never played a game with 3 ways to heal, now 2 yes, but never 3. Oh well, that will just make the game more unquie.
As for the skill system, that would be stuff like fire balls, ice balls, lighting, skills to heal, and that short of stuff. Will we even have stuff like that? If we will, how will we regulate how much of it you can do? Will we have a mana sort of thing, and each skill takes differnt amonuts of mana, or another system, such as the skills are given by items, and only items. If it is mana, then we need some short of potions to regenerate the mana much quicker then if you just left it alone. If it is given by items, then how will the players recharge the items to give more usage?
Fox is leaving the project???
And why should heros married each others??? Links is not a ***!
You could have some fun, and give nothing but the most basic information to the player. His strength is determined by how much he can lift, while the amount of magic he can use is determined by the number of spells he can cast. Make the player remember these things, or at least write them down. It would make the players a bit more attached to thier characters.
Z.
So what, you must type in a squence of characters to cast a spell? If this is the case, then you would never bother with spells.
Nah, have a book open up on screen (as a model, in the view of the character) from which the player can cast.
Z.
Zaei,
I'm not understanding what you are suggesting. You may wish to create a quick demo.
Are you suggesting that you move the character in a certin way, then you can select a target and cast the spell?
No matter how we do it though, we will need to have a limit (such as by level or by a stat point). The example below has an idea.
Also, what kind of stats will we have. These would be such as: strength (damage), dexterity (chance to hit, and other such stuff), knowladge (a way to limit skills). Anyone have an idea?
Uhm.. I will still monitor your progress ;)
Well DX8 in VB5/6 is definitely fast enough. Of course DX can be way slower in C than in VB if you're a bad programmer :rolleyes: (and the other way around).
Why marriages? Because we may have female players :) ... and remember that we'll have a tile map? We can make anything with it, for example players can buy houses and 'live' there. Like in UO, but I wouldn't let the players build the houses, I'd rather just sell them the existing ones from the world we made..
Dang, talk about going into role playing. Once again, I've never seen a game this detailed (although I heard about one where you could kill your characters with food poisioning, read about it at: http://diabloii.net/garwulfs/garwulfs-no29.shtml).
I understand... Maybe not even a book, but maybe somethingQuote:
Originally posted by Zaei
Nah, have a book open up on screen (as a model, in the view of the character) from which the player can cast.
can pop up on the side(so it doesnt interrupt battle) and they can have a list of
potions, or spells they have aquired through out their life time in the game...
OK, now I understand. What was confuising me was that he said that the players would need to memorize the spells. If we are going to have real-time battles then this wouldn't work, as it would take too much time to find the correct spell. We would need to have shortcut keys to the main ones the player uses (basicly let the player select which key does which spell).
If were going to have turn-based battles (you move, the enemy moves, ect), then this would work great.
I never thought of turn based fights, I guess that is how it would
have to be... (Since I have a bad connection, Some one with a DSL
would be able to hurt me badly w/out turn based fights)
Thats what a lot of people were talking about before with the scripts.
I think we should go back to that idea. Have some pre-set scripts (and not allow the user to program their own). These would have stuff to run if under X% health. This would allow us to have real-time fights and also to have it balanced for bad connections. Unless, of course, we are going to slow everything down to the speed of the slowest connection.
This is going to be a problem, there is no really good solution. No matter what we do, we will turn away some people.
Some ideas:
1) We could also set the minium connection speed high (such as 56K or a low-end DSL.).
2) Go with turn-based fighting (yuck)
3) Have simple scripts such as to run, or move in.
4) Slow everything down to the slowest person in the game (yuck)
5) Just don't bother doing anything
6) Find a way to make it not matter what the connection speed is, as long as it is resanible (such as not 14.4)
7) Find another solution
If we can find an easy way, #6 would be the best. Otherwise, we will probably want to do #1, or #7 (if we can).
Also, we we move to the communitation formual, or leave it here?
u mean move to communications forum?
I say we stay here during planning and when we start programming and other more detailed planning we move?
1 thread for:
storyline, rules, art, etc
programming code
?
:)
OK
hummm connection speed should not be a problem ?.. that database will be very big if we buy static stuff like house... and what will be the goal to married Links with an other person that Zelda!
I think we should try really hard to get number 6 to work
Cause, number one would not work for me, I usually only connect
at around 312000 bps, Damn AOL...
I I dont see why we dont just go for 6, or if that too hard, go with
turn based...