Work Log

We are not chatting.
We have this time zone problem. And I don't know why peet still didn't install MSN messenger. He said he would. But I can see him busy in replying the General Threads.

Jez comes later.

Thanks for the new model Harini. I will check it as soon as I can.

Your MSN ID should do for MSN Messenger. It is very simple. Install, then it will ask for your ID, give it your ID, and add us to your list.

Or give us your ID, we will add you to our list.
I hope peet didn't leave the project....

:eek:

:o

[email protected]

ok.. I'm there... :)

:) Welcome back peet.
Come online on MSN anytime convenient for you. Did you check the new design?

My Dad has come up with a possible name:

DigiSec

Or

DigitalSecretary

What do you think?

hi all.

i saw Harini's database design. really good one. Haider's suggestions already eliminated most of its main probs. however, i thought to add some of mine ideas with yours. here's my suggestions (i donno whether it will be useful for you or not. however waiting forward to hear from you people):

* instead of keeping extra field PCoordinator in the Projects table, you can use a designation field in the ProjectsMembers table that will indicate whether the Member is Coordinator or anything else.

* in the same way PMCoordinator of ProjectModules table can be removed by adding 'Designation' field in the ModuleMember table.

* I suggest one more extra field for Budget in the Projects and Modules tables.

* Haider told that in progress log table, we can use references to only module ID, not the project ID. But what if the project member (not the module member) enters his/her log? I think it's better to have both references fields. we can hide the complexity from the user while designing the front end for it.

I've modified Harini's first design (b4 getting the second one) somewhat and my reviewed design is attached here. i'd be glad if it helps you anyway.

by the by, what about planning all the functionalities that the project will have?

I too like the name DigiSec (the digital secretary for project develoopment)

what others say?:confused:

Here are the updated icons, including MouseOver versions, which are suffixed with "h".

Jez

Let me introduce Pallab to all of you.

He leads a Test Team in India. Earlier, he was the one who tested all my components before release.

He is also in Development, and not bad in analysis. Check out his DataModel. He has points.

Will discuss about the Data Model later. And I think we should start listing out the features of the first version.

I was looking for an easy illustration program for drawing, UML diagrams and Flow Charts. Which we could exchange easily.

ProxyDesigner, available from www.proxysource.com, does just that. If all of us have it installed, we could easily create and interchange designs.

It is a freeware.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Abu haider
I was looking for an easy illustration program for drawing, UML diagrams and Flow Charts. Which we could exchange easily.

ProxyDesigner, available from www.proxysource.com, does just that. If all of us have it installed, we could easily create and interchange designs.

It is a freeware.

---

I'm getting it now Abu,
btw the link contained a , at the end... made my browser complain.. noticed it finally though :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jez1
My Dad has come up with a possible name:

DigiSec

Or

DigitalSecretary

What do you think?

---

DigiSec is a good name short and smashing ... (can one say so in english?)

I wote for DigiSec


good one Jez :)

What about :) managing multiple versions of a project peet? When shall we hear from you?

I think you saw that Harini has already proposed something. What do you say......

I agree that sounds like VSS, but anyways... I have seen Jez's opinion on making the first version without any additional features, and yours.

I don't think at this point we should go for storing the project files as well, but managing multiple version may be considered. This is because incorporating this in a future version might require a major remodelling of the application and DataModel.

I thought this because of the following reasons:

• Two different versions of a project could be considered as two different projects, and in that case, we have nothing to do.
• However, a future version builds on the previous version of a project. So we could present the option of creating from an existing project while building a new one.
• But in that case we loose the history since the new project won't have any relation with the older one

I thought we would design the DataModel carefully so that, the users will be able to port their data to the newer versions.

But that doesn't mean that we must incorporate all these features in the first version.

Why don't you list down the features you think should the first version incorporate?

hmmm sorry about this.. the above post is a replay to a post I deleted.... my bad :(

implemented pallab's suggestions

As a developer, I will feel more comfy with tradtional VB forms :) style, but as a user, I guess I would find IExplorer style more attractive.:D

Thanks for the revised version of the Data Model, Harini.

And also thanks to pallab for his suggestions. We can't make two Designs in Parallel. That would be a waste of effort.

From now on, Harini would be responsible for implementing suggested features on the Data Model. We will only suggest.

I suggested the following user interface styles for the project:

• Windows Explorer
• HTML Compiler like
• VB IDE Like
• Traditional Form based

I vote for something like the VB IDE, second choice being the HTML compiler like interface. However, a Form based interface would be the most simple to implement, as Harini said.

Peet agreed to take care of the general interface.

I will take care of the Analysis & Reporting, both user interface and Report Designing.

Harini is taking care of the Database Design & Implementation.

Jez will do Icons, write help. He said he might do some coding & Interface too.

So far the name is DigiSec.

Although each of us is going to do a specific job, we will discuss and suggest about everything of the project.

I am leaving pallab out of the project, I know he has his final exams in the forthcoming month.

I look forward to you all for your opinion on the User Interface.
And mean while, we can talk about the Data model...

Harini already suggested about two ways of implementing the Version Management, and already implemented one in the design.

To me, it would be more an Analysis issue. We may need to analysis and report on a project basis, that will include all versions of it. Although we can try to find out projects with the same title to group all versions together, that doesn't look like the right way. As I have already mentioned, another issue is that a future version usually starts from the previous one, and often many of the modules of the first version may be used as it is in the next version. Kind of confusing. Also keep in mind that different version of the same project may have different title (Visual Studio 98 is actually Visual Studio Version 6)

The reason why I am trying to emphasize on the the project model is:
[list=1][*]It is the root of the Data Model[*]Any change in this in the future may require major remodelling[*]Porting old versions Data to a New Version might be a big issue, and even impossible without a porting wizard[*]It will be easy to add functionalities to the project hierarchy if the Root is designed properly[/list=1]

Trust me, we will save a lot of trouble if the Data model is designed properly.

My primary suggestion is that we have a Projects Table and a ProjectVersions Table. Some thing similar to this:

Table Projects

• PID Auto Inc
• PTitle
• PDescription

End Table

Every other information is kept at the Version level.
Table ProjectVersions

• VersionID
• PID
• VersionTitle
• VersionStartDate
• VersionEstEndDate
• VersionEstBudget
• VersionEstEndDate
• VersionStatus
• VersionEndDate
• And others....

(I know I am not consistent in Field Naming... follow whichever way you like)

Now down the hierarchy, everything else will refer to the version, we don't need a direct reference to the project.

Here is one more small, but important issue...

You know often Projects need to be grouped together. Like an Enterprise solution might have the ClientApplication project, DataAccess Server COM Project, a Web Interface Project etc.

We should have a way of grouping projects together. This is not very complecated though. We can modify the Projects Table to refer to a Parent project, and to know that a project contains child projects, we may have a ProjectGroup Boolean Field. As Follows...

Table Projects

• PID Auto Inc
• PTile Text
• PDescription Memo
• ParentID Long Refers to the same table's PID Field
• ProjectGroup Boolean

End Table

The ProjectGroup Boolean field could be avoided, but that will require us to search for child projects for every project information we retrieve. Field ParentID may instead refer to a ProjectVersion Table, which will allow us to maintain multiple versions of a project group, even better.

The members table should store information that are normally kept for a team member employee, like the official designation etc, and should also have fields that would allow storing information that will be necessary when a team is like ours, geographically seperated.

While we complete the DataModel, we should keep in mind the following features that will be added in a future version of the project:

• The features list for every versions of a project
• Storing Project Module Files
• A way of sharing modules between different versions, or projects.
• Bug Tracking System
• Distributable Package Storing Feature
• A Web Interface to the Application

Combined all these, it should be a complete project management system

It will have features that are also available in the Visual Source Safe, for that is also a source control system, but will beat VSS in many aspects.

i know that i can't take part in this project as a regular member (what a luck i have......). however, i like to be with you atleast as a visitor. hope that sometimes i may give some suggestions that may be useful.

harini, i saw the ver2.1 of ur design. thnx for implementing my suggestions. u've made the design even better. (but wondering why the 'pcoordinator' and 'pmcoordinator' fields still there in 'projects' and 'projectsmodule' table)

to solve the version problem, i think what emon suggested is very important and useful.

in the member field, i suggest the country field be used to indicate the geographical station of the member.

Sorry to abuhaider for cutting you off like that - someone really needed to use the phone and I haven't had a chance to contact u until now.
I will try to find a suitable domain name,
What do people think of the latest icons?

thel atest icons are good. how about making the human head (and the body as well) 3d, like the msn messenger icon?

3D people is a good idea, but it might look odd since the rest of the icons are 2D and wouldn't change to 3D very easily, but I'll have a look.

What do you think of the MouseOver highlights?

Hi I am sending Ver 3 of data model. As regards the coordinator fields, I thought as it is a Unique position, it deserves mention in the main tables. If you don't want it there we will leave it out.
I couldn't connect to proxysource, so couldn't download the s/w. If any of you have it, would it be possible for you to send it through msn messenger? Tell me when to log on.

you need to change ALL your boolean fields to ints
sql server does not support "boolean"'s

storing 1 and 0's is the best way

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Harini
...
I couldn't connect to proxysource, so couldn't download the s/w. If any of you have it, would it be possible for you to send it through msn messenger? Tell me when to log on.

---

maybe u clicked on the invalid link, try this :http://www.proxysource.com

Abu had a comma at the end of the link he posted .

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jez1
3D people is a good idea, but it might look odd since the rest of the icons are 2D and wouldn't change to 3D very easily, but I'll have a look.

What do you think of the MouseOver highlights?

---

i think mouseover highlights is a good idea. what others say?

here's the attachment of a zip file that contains some word templete for documentation. plz try these if useful.

i didn't find any further suggestions on the design of version 3. i think everything is okey there. what haider says?

hi

Id like to help with this project.

I could do some work on the

web site
testing
ideas

im new to vb tho, so I dont think id be too good there.

let me know please


ICQ: 44712087
Yahoo: alc2k1
MSN: digiworlduk
Email: [email protected]

Welcome to the WorkLog team. It is ok if you are new to VB. We still need ideas and testers.

Thanks Harini for Version 3 of the DataModel. I will come back with a follow up soon.

And thanks Pallab for the templates, certainly usefull.

Jez those Icons are good. However, the if you could make the Pencil a little bigger in size, and also leave the red outlines of the arrows, better. Any better idea for the hover states?

Abu,

Could you please email me with the things you have decided on so i can get up to date.

Ive looked at the thread, but its kinda hard to know which are accepted ideas etc

thanks

(Btw im from the UK for time purposes)

We have discussed most of the things on the thread. If something is not clear to you, please let me know what it is, or which part interests you most. I will send you details.

yeah what do you want me to do :D

You could suggest on the Data Model.
You could work with peet in designing the interface.
you could Test the Application.
You could work on Developing the Web Interface for the Application.
And of course, give as much ideas as you can.

Let us know what u think.

are you guys following any software developement procedures?
or you guys just wacking at it?

if you guys ahve a procedure
i would like to see the project management documents

:)
a palm version of what we are doing

http://www.francksen.de/wlog_e.htm

:)

Man, they stole our ideas :rolleyes:

Well, originally, that is what we started with.

But its far away from a simple worklog...

good book to read

Applying UML and Patterns

I want to test that big project ok :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Abu haider
Should we keep publishing our work on an open thread like here? Or create a private area on a Website for the team members for exchanging the works?

What do you think?

---

Just come back from chat with u.

I was concerned about the public postings too. I would prefer a more secure option.

Website or xchange thru messenger(would tjat be possible?)
anyway hope we soon come out with a more secure option soon

Just downloaded it. Will try it out and get used to it

Due to different time zones, exchanging files through MSN Messenger may not be a good idea. I will soon create a protected Web Site to exchange files among the team members.

However, we will continue to discuss on this thread.

The Project Hierarchy

• A Project may contain one or more Versions
• A version may be a project group, or single project

Case: A Version is a Single Project

• The Version has a reference to the project
• It may have one or more modules, but no subprojects

Case: A version is a Project Group

• The Version has a reference to the Project
• It may have one or more projects, but no modules

A Subproject:
Its just another project, but a with a reference to the ProjectGroup Version it belongs to. So it will be created in the Projects table.

Now do we need a ProjectGroups (OR GroupProjects) Table to relate the subproject to the parent? A project has a ParentID field, when it is null, we know it doesn't belong to any project group, and that means it is not a subproject. We don't need any other table to relate a subproject to its parent.

That is, when we don't have a subproject belonging to multiple project groups. In case an Activex Control is project is shared among multiple project groups, we are in trouble.

And this is the case when we need a join table to relate sub projects to the parents.

Table GroupProjects
GPID
GroupID
SubProjectID
AccessRights 'I suggest its a long Flag that will indicate if the Group can make change to the sub project, or just use it. "ReadOnly"/"ReadWrite", (or do we need this field?)
End Table

So when we declare a Preject Version as a Group, we get options like, "Create Sub Projects" and "Add existing projects" which will not be available otherwise. In case the Version is not a Group, we get Options like "Create Module", "Add Existing Module" etc.

Is it confusing?

The same way, we may make the Project Version and Module relationship 'many to many' through a join table, and let a module be shared among multiple Versions of the Same project, or even among multiple Versions of Projects belonging to different project groups.

The Table that connects a Module to the Versions should be very similar to the 'GroupProjects' Table. Its important that we have the AccessRight field here that will indicate whether a project Version may modify a module, or just access it.

The ProgressLog remains same and points to the Module it belongs to.

The progress log will not only keep track of the works, it will also let us create a change log with every new version of a project, which is a standard way of keeping tracks of changes made in a new version of a software.

I have asked Harini to include a project expenses table that will keep track of expenses on a project. I think this should be kept at the version level. So be better named 'Version Expenses'

I think we may also have a VersionFeatures table, that will contain the features of a particular version. Combined with the ChangeLog, it will allow quick documentation of a project.

I know, it is getting bigger, but lets do it. :)

Hold on there Abu:) :confused: :)
This will take some little time.
I have some ideas about this, but I will be able to give u the revised version only by thursday.

Sorry for not being able to chat with u again this morning(My morning), but it was my brother who was online. Hope to catch u tomorrow

right. the web site.......

im no good at graphics, so if anyone can do them for me then great. If not Ill knock something up.

If anyone has any ideas about designs which they would like me to consider then let me know.

As for the hosting, I plan to use ASP, so we need a host which supports this. For the time being I do have hosting which I can use to test the pages, however do we want to get a domain? If so theres the factor of money.

:)

If you look in the thread you would see I've offered a Domain Name, and space for the project. I will take care of that.

We have asp supported hosting, so you may start developing the site.

Personally, I won't be able to help you with ideas. So I look forward to other members of the project.

I forgot :) the bug tracking part...

What do you think about that?

k
im gonna make a printout of this thread coz im missing bits!

Hello everyone!

So A[L]C, you are making the the website. I'll do graphics if u like, that seems to be all I'm doing anyway..:)

Does anyone have any suggestions for:

MouseOver highligts
Main App Icon?

hello all, mixed feelings here...

I got some very unexpected work yeasterday. One of my Clients want me to do an app for them, and I'v said yes (well money rules :rolleyes: )

ofcourse they want this app up and running yesterday :rolleyes:

I have my own little company beside my dayjob. This means that speartime is drasticly redused the next 3 months or so... again leading to my point... I won't be able to follow up on this project. (not that I'v gotten started prop. :) )

I still will love to sew together the helpfile. (that does not take to much time, u only need the knowledge and the tools)

I'm sorry about all this.

peet

Sorry to see you go peet. :(

You had better give us your e-mail so we know where to send the help files, unless you plan to keep looking at the forums.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jez1
Hello everyone!

So A[L]C, you are making the the website. I'll do graphics if u like, that seems to be all I'm doing anyway..:)

Does anyone have any suggestions for:

MouseOver highligts
Main App Icon?

---

sweet
and your from england, so do you wanna chat on msn or icq tonight?

OK, [email protected]
On MSN Messenger and I'll give you the address of our new forum.

Got any suggestions for any graphics?

NOTE: A new forum has now been set up for us to use,

it will be online by tomorrow (7th November).

If you want the address, e-mail me: Here and I'll send you it.

Jez

Jez set up a New Forum for this project. However I am unable to access it for some reason. Meanwhile, I've set up a New Forum too. Any body can register at the new forum, but some of the threads are restricted to only a group of members. I think this is what we need.

I will soon publish a link here and the team members may then register themselves at the new forum.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jez1
Sorry to see you go peet. :(

You had better give us your e-mail so we know where to send the help files, unless you plan to keep looking at the forums.

---

when u get there (I'm sure u will :) ) u can contact me either in here (PM) or mail me at [email protected]

peet

We will be very happy if you keep in touch, as much as you can.


The New Forum
The New forum address is:This

Let me know if you have difficulty in accessing the Forum.

The procedure is as follows:

Register yourself, and drop me a mail giving me your user name. I will add the user name to the list of allowed members for the Restricted threads.

whats your address?
ive just signed up as Alc

some mock designs - let me know:

http://www.hamcparland.co.uk/ukcl/worklog/site1/
http://www.hamcparland.co.uk/ukcl/worklog/site2/
http://www.hamcparland.co.uk/ukcl/worklog/site3/
http://www.hamcparland.co.uk/ukcl/worklog/site4/

You do such heavy grafix? Thats great.
Lets see what others say. Have you done all these from the scratch in this short time?

send me your user name to [email protected]